My military enlistment service on a Navy combat ship, honorably discharged, does not exist to the VA! How do I survive?

Aaron,

I have encountered a couple of people who fell into this gap of not having enough AD time in service to be considered a veteran for VA purposes. One was a Reservists who deployed to OEF/OIF and missed the cut-off by a couple of months. The other was a girl who was AD and the Army separated her after her NCO attacked & raped her. She had some serious injuries from the assault and the Army let her go with a year & a half of service after she testified and his ass was sent to Leavenworth. So, this type of thing DOES happen, unfortunately.

Do you have any injuries from your time in service that are documented (Line of Duty incident is what it was called in the Army)? Because if you incurred injuries while on active duty OR any problems you came into the military with were aggravated or worsened during your AD time, you can file a claim for Compensation with the VBA.

I will warn you ahead of time. It is a long, arduous process. You will need to get help from either an attorney/lawyer (look for someone who does this for FREE/"pro bono")OR Veteran Service Organization (VFW, American Legion, Vietnam Veterans of America, DAV, etc) to represent you. You have to dig up all your medical records from your time in the Navy, statements from buddies, & orders assigning you to ADT showing what happened, when it happened, where it happened, & how it affects you today. That way, even if you don't have the years to be considered a veteran for VA purposes, you will be considered a veteran for VA Healthcare & some VA Benefits. As a homeless veteran, you can get your claim expedited.

Like I said earlier, ask non profit organizations what assistance they may be able to provide. Also, look at the City/State/County as well. I don't know where you live, but most communities have a Salvation Army, United Way, Red Cross. Start there & with your state & local governments. I wish I had more information to provide.

Thank you for all the clarification. I definitely see why you're frustrated.

Much of this is the same advice I have given Aaron over the time I have worked with him off RP. He really needs to take it and run with it as YOU advised SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris

CMDCM Gene Treants - Thank you.

Everyone.
I did not call it this.

It was termed

the "PERFECT STORM" by another.


I sit here tonight to update.
I just turned 40 in may.
I sit here feeling more similar to an Honorable Vietnam Veteran put under Extreme Military Stress then forgotten.
My only crime is my SAM enlistment that is it.
Due my SAM enlistment placed on an NRF FFG there were no limits to the stress.
I have lived it.
I survived it.


I have tried everything to date (1)Congressional VA Aid who I just confirmed by calling the central office he reports to, never even registered an official Congressional Inquiry to the database in Washington DC. The VA disability has denied my service connection going on 3 years now even with evidence I attempted Navy to Army transfer through USMEPCOM and was medically Disqualified, for PSYCH and SPINE 1998, with a 3P which is a dd214 medical discharge code I just discovered, but never given any follow up medical care or clearance, because the branches did not share the medical records, as evidenced there is no medical reference to the transfer physical in my Navy Records. Both the spine and psych conditions without treatment have become chronic and disabling ending me up on SSDI under the poverty line for over a decade, with chronic homelessness and suicidal hospitalization self injury 5150. But, I stand empty feeling pain of emptiness wondering why? June 2015, I just sat through a "VA Eligibility Department" Atlanta Georgia, Hearing held through video feed, in the conference room at Local VA regional Hospital Fort Miley San Fransico. I just found out I was denied. They took all services away. They reference a rule that says that if I did not do 2 years active service then I do not get VA support. I can not even get a waiver for a homeless housing voucher, which most vets with a honorable discharge can access, but not a SAM enlisted 8 years. Problem was, 2013 VA PHD MD etc, originally accepted me diagnosed me with PTSD Due service about 3 years ago and started treatment nearly weekly, while I was chronically homeless already and on SSDI for Anxiety and Mood Disorder, affective age 29 years old, below the povertly line. Just so we have dates correct, I was a very very rare SAM enlisted in the Navy 1994 18 year old to 2002 26 years old honorably discharged. I was sold the SAM enlistment as a way to become an officer. But of course the recruiter never told me what units I might be put in. I went to bootcamp 1994 18 yo, where I was awarded best recruit advanced e2 meritorious thinking career Navy white picket fence AMERICAN DREAM my own family here we come. I was engaged by 19 to a beautiful girl. My advocates at the recent VA meeting were 3 Vets led by Marine Colonel Wong Vietnam Vet Chairman of Veteran Support Groups, a Marine OIF OEF service connected about my age, and Army Chaplain Vietnam Vet Mr. Mapp suffering Agent Orange with Parkinsons. Mr Wong did his homework, interviewed a sailor of these rare long ago forgotten units, and verified these unique experiment NRF FFG units and my rare SAM enlistment would create as he called it the "PERFECT STORM" for illness, hardship, but no Medical Care because I was a SAM enlisted. I am officially DOD archived, crew member, 18 yo, just part time, $150 month compensation, on a full time operational combat ship, full of full time sailors, some of whom despised my SAM status. I got stressed out every month. I got tired of being called a Reservist in a bad way by the Active duty and would defend myself against some 15 Active Duty e3 attached the ship. I was outnumbered and bullied by some of these guys. I went into darkness. I was the only SAM in my unit. I eventually got physically attacked, MST, death threats, altercations hidden and intimidated and humiliated without military medical access off the ship. There was no medical officer on the ship either, being it was a small surface combat ship. This went on for nearly 5 years even beyond my failed attempted Army transfer out of this unit. I dropped out of college that year. My fiance left me. I had PTSD already but was not being treated. I was entering a mind numbing dog fight with guys my age who were supposed to be my friends, but because we had different enlistments, hence different experiences, then we did not jell, and some of them did not like me at all. And I did not like that at all. That FFG was their home and I was just a unwanted visitor every month they were taking to sea where I would not sleep a lick with my eyes wide open. Beyond that a Navy Combat Ship an FFG is a highly technical weapons system that requires full time duty to feel comfortable on and proficient and safe on. Beyond the crew member crap I was dealing with from the active guys, I was getting sea sick every month, and scared and intimidated by the overwhelming amount of crap that was put on my plate, that is normally learned and digested over full time duty. But they just let me fry for 48 hours a month, then set me home, to think about it every month till I was not myself any longer, and no medical military care to access off the ship.

This SAM enlisted thing on an Navy Combat ship has never before been attempted before or after.

If you do any google search verification, you will see how many SAMs there were in 1994 in the Navy and how many NRF FFGs there were. It was the rarest of occurrences.

Right. Ok.

Have you requested your service records from NRPC yet? If not, I suggest you do it. You want to know what they have, and what you don't before writing the letter. I'll even help you draft the letter. But, let's do our homework, and get it right the first time. We don't want to waste your time or anyone else's.

Is that something you can do? Order your personnel record?

PO2 Sybil "TT" I. -

I have 3 CD's of my OMPF. I talked to 3 different Veteran Organizations originally about 3 -4 years ago, when I first starting getting my head around this, and they ordered them.

If you have a personal email I can send what you would like.

I really could use support, of clear head and mind.

Thanks for not taking that last rant personal, about the RED HERRING thing. Red Herring is a real College Argumentative term with real meaning.

I just do not think people really understand how misleading, when using the same term, AD, IDT, ADT, with no differentiation negative neutral or positive, when comparing the experience mentally and physically, of 3 sailors on the same NRF FFG. (1) is full time active duty USN or TAR Full Benefits, Training, Leadership, Shipmates, etc (2) Prior Service Rated (so he already knows what is going on basically from prior full time duty) in SELRES Unit with DD214 in hand access to VA off Ship for whatever reason (3) Rare SAM enlisted 18 yo Non-Prior Service No A School to rely on DD214(So all his experiences are going to be his first then sent home to think and feel the affects of it alone without access to VA).

A great question I would like to ask is this. Has any sailor, 18 yo Non Rated No Prior Service, in the United States Navy history, ever been expected to use 2 days a month, and a bit more in the summer, and expected to do anything positive, with that much limited unit contact duty time with the full time crew attached? Or is it easier to create a long list of solid common sense reasons why this is an abnormal Navy Combat Ship Experience full of risk for the 18 yo Non Rated No Prior Service in this scenario?

The truth is 1 day of Duty on an FFG can start to have negative affects on the body and mind deployed. But for a SAM you have to basically explain yourself in a defensive kind of way because it was just IDT "Inactive Duty Training" after all in someones eyes far removed from the reality. Where as the active duty or the prior service in the same command is covered and more secure and more accepted due his "experience" and "entitlements".

Don't worry about the rant. You obviously have a lot going on in your head. Been there.
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As to your question, try to look at it this way:

For USN and USNR the "majority" of Seaman are basically young, non-priors, with no experience. For USN after boot-camp, if you don't have an "A" school to attend, you get a few more extra weeks of Seaman School (pretending to put out fires on a fake ship on a patch of grass.) Big deal. After that, the majority are sent straight to a ship. So, I'll say it again, being young, with little experience, being sent to a ship (inherently, full of risk) is in no way special. It's done all the time.

Also, I know of many non-prior, drilling reservists, who have gone years without "any" time or experience on a ship. I'm just speculating, but I don't think drilling on the ship as a SAM, instead of in a cozy Reserve Center, was meant for you to accomplish something "positive" in your unit. It was meant for exposure and to learn what you can about working on an actual ship. With real hands-on experience.

Think of it like this: You go to war, who do you want?
Do you want to call up the non-prior Reservist who "has" actually seen and trained on a ship before, or the non-prior Reservist (who didn't even attend a full boot-camp) and has "never" seen, let alone, worked on a real ship before?
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K. Back to business. Having your OMPF on hand is a huge help and saves a tremendous amount of time. I'll send you a message with contact info.

PO2 Sybil "TT" I. -

I know we are talking off line already.

I appreciate all response. I definitely have time to think about and reflect on my experience.

I think my response is for everyone who has served Active Duty on the Ship.

There is the ROTC student sailor, in the summer, on a surface combatant somewhere, doing some observational watch standing shadowing, to get the taste and feel down, without the pressure of having to actually be responsible for a watchstanding duty station on a Navy Surface Combatant Deployed.

The Navy, when I was serving, even created a WET(weekend away training) for SELRES, for example in Arizona Reserve Center, to get travel time, and be on a Ship Underway then sent home, to get a taste and feel of the Sea. I do not even know if they still do this. But those WET sailors who would come and go, were never listed on Muster Rolls, as an actual crew member of the FFG.

Then there was a real Primary Augment SELRES crew, for these few FFGs, that were actually considered part of the real crew, listed as actual crew on the DOD archived muster rolls. This SELRES unit was expected to augment support, relieve the PERSTEMPO and OPTEMPO of the undermanned, Active Duty Crew attached in anyway possible. As a SAM in this SELRES Unit, I had to go from ground zero to functional before I even knew the names of the guys I was working with. Let alone, trying to understand the HELM, underway with the OOD behind you steaming away.


The only way I can get my point across that would possible mimic being equally ludicrous, as a Non-Prior SAM no A school attached a FFG Primary SELRES Unit, would be this example.

Imagine, someone creating a scenario, where only 2 recruits in this example, would be picked to attend real full time Navy Bootcamp full of 100 full time recruits, only part time 2 days a week with 5 days off sent home. But when you are there those 2 days, you are expected to jump right in as if they never left, get no special treatment for your lack of experience compared the full time recruits, face the same punishments equally for making mistakes in marching just like the full time, somehow feel like you are actually learning and becoming proficient in the fine details of becoming a sailor in bootcamp, somehow build trustworthy relationships with the full time recruits, and expect not to have any friction or get any grief bullying alienation from some of the full time recruits, because of your lack of experience. Not to mention on those 2 days, you must pass the same exams for that week. So basically you have to self study the 5 days you are not there so you can attempt to save face when you are there. You are only paid for the 2 days you are there, and none for the self study. You are also expected to rest comfortably when TAPS hits, calm and sleeping well like the full time fully adjusted recruits. To cap it off, none of this is expected to make you feel odd or have anxiety in any shape or form, so no leadership even questions you for this or monitors you for this.

That is about the best military example I can create.

More about the SAM program. Google Search shows SAM enlistment created 1984. By the time 1994 rolled around (GOOGLE SEARCH) 1994 DOD Manpower Requirement Reports less then 1000 SAMS being tracked in all of the NAVY. The same report also states the SAM enlistment was "DRAWN DOWN" that same year. 1995 DOD Manpower Requirement Reports track absoluetly "0" SAMs. The Navy stopped tracking the SAMs all together. The 1994 report tracks less then 100K SELRES , and some 480K Active Duty, totaling about 600K sailors all of whom basically had Active Duty experience, save these < 1000 SAM enlisted of whom I was 1. There were only 16 FFGs designated NRF at the time, soon to be like just 8 by 2000 approximately. I was in these units from 1994-1999 the only SAM I ever knew.

I truly was having a unique experience.

CMDCM Gene Treants - Any Clue / Any Help Here?? Warmest Regards, Sandy

1LT Sandy Annala I have worked with Aaron on this issue for quite some time and my best advice after exhausting every Navy and VA option I could think of was going to Congressman and asking for assistance. I am not sure if Aaron has, in fact, done that yet. Most of what I have talked to Aaron with and about was person to person and off RP. The advice from SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris, echos much of what I have worked with Aaron to do and I hope he does follow through and complete much of it, especially looking into LEGAL Aid and working with Free Help from some groups.

CMDCM Gene Treants - Thanks. You know so much about the Navy . . . and the language and ways of the Navy . . . I thought you may have helpful insight here. Warmest Regards, Sandy

CPT Kletzing,


Thank You for you service and successful career, and desire to help other vets with this web site.

I have a tale I am still figuring out.
I do need help, from fellow service members.

There has not been a case study completed on the enlistment and units served that I did.
I have made a bold question looking to the community on this chat room, unit facebook pages of the units involved, and military.com and have not found another sailor like me.

It is that rare an occurance.

Considering that in bootcamp or OCS or ROTC we are taught conformity, then being unique , in a less then fully trained and experienced way in a technological, dangerous, occupational guided missile frigate I served is not a healthy experience from which to build a complete successful sailor.

Like you sir, I had a dream to be an officer, when I was 18 high school graduate varsity athlete. I am from San Diego, a military town, of course. I signed, what has turned out to be a very very rare enlistment that was already being shut down, when I signed it the last year it was available enlistment, a SAM sea air mariner contract, 1994 before graduating high school. I was awarded best recruit advanced paygrade meritorious e2 during graduation. I was loyal, and willing to do whatever it took to help and defend my nation anytime anywhere anyplace. I was going to college to after bootcamp. But no leadership, or mentoring program similar an ROTC program, would guide my rare SAM enlistment after bootcamp. No leadership would educate, warn, monitor me in any specific occupational medical issues for illness. Why should leadership pay attention to me and monitor mea bit more medically? Of the 200 sailors on the FFG I reported monthly, I was the only SAM non-prior service 18 years old, no A school (advanced training), attached to such a unit in an obligated part time status. The FFG was not a Reserve Center in Nebraska. No this FFG was a fully operational forward deployed, Navy Guided Missile Frigate Combat Ship. The Regular Navy, and Navy Reserve, acted as near separate entities with the same uniform. In early mid 1990s, USN regular and Reserves, took 16, of the 58 regular fully manned FFGs and did something never attempted before or after, and has since shut this down. They slashed the regular USN FFG Active Duty Crew Members for some 30% and replaced them with a SELRES Unit. These 16 FFG's were now called NRF Naval Reserve Force FFG. But the OPTEMPO and PERSTEMPO, deployments, Qualifications etc, were to remain nearly exactly the same for the Active Duty crew attached. I as the only SAM was put in a position, unlike any sailor in history to acclimate, adjust, develop stamina, strength, knowledge, resolve, and hi morale on an FFG with only weekend warrior duty. The reality of my weekend warrior duty, monthly, was entering the technical dangerous world of overworked Active Duty FFG Crew. Some, 18 yo Active were bullies and treated me like an outcast. This was a complete break of my initial successful bootcamp indoc training.. The Active Duty crew was tight, and I was just considered and felt lost, empty, overwhelmed, and an aberration. So this monthly burden unmonitored when I was sent home alone every month, stayed with me, in a state of worry and self doubt and confusion on how to make this impossible duty station work. But again it was hopelessly conflicting. I was absorbing monthly bad medical relevant military stress without outlet or understanding or monitoring after duty. I was a proud sailor with a dream of a career starting 18 military. I joined a SAM program that has long been forgotten, sold to me as an honorable way to serve and represent and honor my country, with the added goal of becoming an officer. I did not know then 18, e2 on an Navy Combat Ship, DOD and Navy, medical terms or concepts, OSR Operational Stress Reaction, sleep deprivation, Anxiety Panic Attacks, PTSD, Musculoskeletal/Spine illness attributed Navy Combat ship Operations, Active Duty on Reserve Bullying, Harassment, Intimidation, MST, or Physical or Mental Assaults from Junior or Senior Active Duty enlisted, and personal severe limit in inexperience in duty time, in all Operational and Occupational Duty of a Navy Combat ship would or could cause, life long developing chronic illness mental or physical with just Weekend Warrior Duty over 8 years. If you have read any of my previous posts, you will also, see I dropped out of college, as I could not think straight or concentrate, after being exposed to this monthly after a couple years into this enlistment. And I even attempted a Navy to Army transfer by 22 yrs of age, off this same ship, and was medically disqualified, and made to feel even more sick and despondent, when I failed a PSYCH eval put on my by my Army Recruiter through USMEPCOM. I just got my own records FOIA from USMEPCOM and there you will see, I also had a SPINE/MUSCULOSKELETAL Failure code given a 3P which is a medical discharge code on a dd214/ or a code used for permanent disqualification from enlistment. I found Army Regs state 3P's require a clearance for continued duty. But no one ever told my Navy Command for follow up medical screening clearance. Just to clear the air on one subject matter here. DOD infact says accession standards are the same basically between branches save height and weight. So Psych and Spine/Musculoskeletal issues I failed for in the Army would of failed me in the Navy as a new recruit. But I was already 4 years of service in the Navy when the Army Med failed me. I sit here now finding that the VA infact has continued the abuse. I find out now I never did enough active duty time to qualify for continued medical service. But the problem is the VA Army PHD Psych Doctor originally diagnosed me with service caused PTSD, and treated me for 1 year weekly, with patient records of over 100 pages, before they started playing the minimum active duty game with me. Of course all this in service and out of service belittling of me because of my enlistment leaves me motionless and in tatters. No one seems to care what I actually did and what stress I was under with this SAM enlistment on NRF FFGs.

I just wish for dignity and support and friendship now.

I am on SSDI for anxiety mood disorder chronic severe. I have stopped drinking.

I do have a recent MRI that shows 2 hernias in the spine and disk degeneration diagnosed with symptomatic pain.


That original transfer Navy Army physical was dead on.

Without treatment and counseling, in continued service I would aggravate those 3P medical issues.

But the VA has taken the lowest approach possible and said in writing that in a reserve enlistment that my claim for service connection can not be handled the same. So basically they can be vague and discredit and dismantle any evidence that shows I was serving aggravating illnesses in service.

They have the evidence of the attempted Navy Army transfer, and the medical disqualifications, but said with a reserve enlistment the evidence of a transfer attempt means nothing.

I look for friends now.

I was and am a normal American who can be injured if put under unusual military stress duty never before attempted before, that the VA will completely deny as deserving respect.

Where does that leave me?