My sergeant has been breaking the rules and is trying to blame me? What do I do? What regulations do I need?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 23:18:24 -0500

So, I have this sergeant who allowed their Soldier to drive the TMP without a license for months on end. By no license, I don't mean no TMP license, I mean zero license whatsoever. Never taken a drivers test kind of thing. Plus, they had no TMP license and no European license either. Anyway, I have this friend who brought up to this sergeant that this sergeant treats us Soldiers differently and holds certain Soldiers to different standards. When asked for examples, this Soldier mentioned how this sergeant mentioned many times that no one can drive without a valid drivers license to our entire team yet allowed this one particular Soldier to drive without a license. This Soldier is not the only Soldier who does not have a drivers license on the team, but is the only one who frequently drove the TMP. So as a more specific example, my friend mentions a specific day, a day that I had mentioned to this individual about the Soldier without the drivers license driving me to the shoppette. Because this Soldier had already driven so many times, I didn't question it, and because I knew that this sergeant held the keys and would have had to given this Soldier the keys, I thought they had already talked about it. So, I walk up to the car, this Soldier is already sitting in the drivers seat, and I say nothing as I get into the car.

Now, this sergeant is telling me that I will be counseled because I allowed this Soldier to drive me. Honestly, I want her to counsel me so I can write down that I wasn't the one who frequently put the keys of a car into the hands of a Soldier who couldn't drive. But knowing my unit, I need regulation back up. If anyone could help me out and point me in the right direction, that would be great. I know this sergeant is in the wrong, but this sergeant will just get away with it at the end of the day. I would love to write a detailed essay on the matter but I don't know where to start when it comes to back up from regulation and UCMJ. I would really appreciate some advice. Thank you for listening.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2020 11:25 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 23:25:49 -0500

IDK what to do

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 6 at 2020 11:30 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 23:30:10 -0500

Yep!

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2020 11:45 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 23:45:04 -0500

Chain of Command. Go one step higher than that particular NCO. They have a boss to answer to as well. I’d be willing to bet, their superior has no idea...

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 6 at 2020 11:49 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 23:49:00 -0500

First, you shouldn't have gotten in a vehicle with an unlicensed driver. If you had gotten hurt, that would be misconduct, and you may not have gotten disability if it led to a discharge. But, more importantly, you know this person is driving with the knowledge of the NCO. This is something that should be brought up to the PSG because the NCO has already been made aware and continues to allow this to continue. If that soldier causes injury to someone else, that soldier's career are in jeopardy, or if they get hurt they would be in the same situation with the line of duty status and VA. You will piss a few people off, but sometimes that is necessary to correct a situation that stands in need of correcting. Think of it this way. On the one hand those who are doing wrong are wrong. But, if you do nothing about it to correct the situation, you are equally as wrong. Do the right thing. This is what personal courage is about. Either you take the Army Values seriously or not.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Feb 7 at 2020 2:01 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 02:01:05 -0500

open door policy - if you feel you cannot trust your first line or section Sergeant, then utilize the open door policy of your 1SG and Commander - it is more then likely that they do not know the SM in question is unlicensed, second - It is your NCO's responsibility to ensure whoever he/she gives vehicle keys to is properly Licensed to operate said vehicle - Which he/she would know via Counseling Packet, and Leaders book, the fact that he/she gave the keys to an unlicensed SM, puts responsibility and accountability on him/her overall - but, you knowingly getting into the vehicle as a passenger puts personal responsibility upon you as well, Get ahead of this, Bring it to your 1SG or Commander, Ask them to check with the Company/Battalion Master driver to see if the SM is licensed, Ask your peers to fill out sworn statements to the claim that this NCO allows this SM to drive the vehicle. For regulatory guidance - see AR 600-55

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 3:03 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 03:03:47 -0500

At your level the focus is on obeying, but the solution lies with your Chain of Command. I doubt the CO or PL would endorse this, or their Sr enlisted. If the Sgt is your next in chain, ask why, then take it above them for the good of the unit. It's all fun and games until the folks with clipboards and statement sheets show up i.e. after an accident or loss of life. Good luck and do the right thing.

Edit - I just googled TMP and have to edit. I thought it was a vehicle, turns out it's Motor Pool. This one is easy. If the dispatcher is so advised, they will start verifying licenses whenever they issue Trip Tickets as required. A subtle nudge from above makes this happen. No license, no drive. The fly in the ointment is if someone senior is ensuring your pal still drives. Find out through NCOs, and I hope that helps. It's like musical chairs, whoever is ordering someone to disobey SOP will be the one left without a chair when JAG arrives after a fatality or accident. You're golden because that's not you.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Feb 7 at 2020 6:34 AM

SSG Brian G. — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 06:34:01 -0500

Ok, a couple of things.

At the time where you got into the vehicle and this soldier drove, did you know he or she was unlicensed at the time?

There should be a logbook where the TMP is signed out each day. This tracks who drove itm has it and such as reports have to be submitted.

I get that you seem to mistrust your CoC but you need to actually let it work and use it. If you don't think your PSG is going to help, step above them to your 1sg and go from there with his or her open door policy.

Response by SPC Ryan D. made Feb 7 at 2020 7:47 AM

SPC Ryan D. — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 07:47:03 -0500

As a former MP, I can tell you they are not only breaking the rules, but breaking both state and federal law by allowing an unlicensed driver to operate a vehicle. Your best option is to utilize the open door policy and speak to your 1SGT or CO. Don’t bother trying to write a “retort”, it will accomplish nothing. Get this up the chain of command as soon as possible.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 10:30 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 10:30:07 -0500

Look at your post policies, also go to the TMP yard and get the regulations from them. These offices are usually run by civilians, they will always have a copy of their rules on hand. Take these with you when you go to the platoon sergeant. Your NCO knows the regulation and has not followed it so handing him a copy won't do you any good. If you do get counseled then I would definitely write some details in there

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 11:51 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 11:51:49 -0500

So all I will say is know that they do not possess a license or OF346 for the TMP. Look into AR 600-55 and AR 350-10. All of your answers are in these publications. Your unit master driver also is a good POC for this.

Response by SSgt Jim Carpenter made Feb 7 at 2020 1:04 PM

SSgt Jim Carpenter — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:04:38 -0500

IG is confidential. That's the best route.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 7 at 2020 2:07 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 14:07:25 -0500

Talk to the PSG and PL and see if they knew what was going on. I can't imagine they would have condoned this. If they knew what was going on and allowed it, go see the 1SG. AR 600-55 used to be the licensing Reg, mine is dated 2011 and may be outdated. You would also have to look at the USAEUR version of the Reg for local supplements.

As a side note; detailed essays on misconduct often lead young Soldiers into deep shit as the more you write the more you can inadvertently incriminate yourself or miss-speak about an incident and cause yourself to be found as having given a false statement later down the road. Keep it short and concise and stick to: who, what , where , when and how, Or size, activity, location, unit, time and equipment. No one is interested in your opinions, assumptions or suppositions. Also the time to take action is when you see something, not after you are in, or may be in trouble.

Hope this helps.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 7:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 19:09:09 -0500

You need to take this to your Chain POST HASTE. This is screaming all kinds of red flags.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Feb 7 at 2020 9:57 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 21:57:25 -0500

Just keep your mouth shut and do your job... have fun in Europe and visit places. When they put you in Charge then you can worry about it... when I was PFC the last thing I worried about was anyone's business or Drivers Licensee... just be grateful your OK and alive instead of being in laid out in a National Cemetery or screaming in a VA psych unit.. like so many other soliders.. females included..

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Feb 7 at 2020 10:52 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 22:52:35 -0500

Oi...
So - the NCO is in the wrong. You can go tell on the NCO. That NCO seems like they need a bit of a talking to.
But, they can still counsel you. You shouldn't have gotten in the car.
Also, it's just a counseling statement. Read it. Listen to it. Learn from it. Better yourself. Take this negative experience as a learning experience. It'll be positive that way and you'll be a better person for it.

To add a dickhead comment: Judging by your two disorganized and run-on "paragraphs", I would strongly suggest you don't write a "detailed essay".

Response by CPL Justin Higgins made Feb 8 at 2020 2:46 AM

CPL Justin Higgins — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 02:46:24 -0500

The way it worked in my unit was everybody in the chain of command from squad leader, platoon sergeant, and commander or xo if commander is unavailable would sign off on a dispatch and they all would verify licenses of all parties involved upon signing. Every time a vehicle left the motor pool. Every...time. I would bring this garbage to your ombudsman they are often times former senior NCO’s so they will know the situation is jacked up. Situation is not normal or acceptable. And in my opinion the responsibility falls upon your squad leader. In my experience that’s the first person in the chain of command who verifies a soldiers license. Sometimes you have to rat people out to cover your own butt. This is one of those times. It’s safe to say you learned something and will let someone higher in the chain of command know next time.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 9:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:32:41 -0500

Talk to your good friend 31B if you think it is needed

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Mar 22 at 2020 5:45 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 17:45:44 -0400

You have gotten yourself in a mess. My suggestion is to parts. First sit down all by yourself and write what’s called memo for the record. Put down the date you right now and to the best of your memory everything that happened relevant to the story go back as far as you can and get as many details as you can’t be sure that you don’t put in any errors. For example don’t say May 15 say I believe it happened on or about May 15. After you’ve written this essay make a least two copies put one in a safe place and take the others to the judge advocates office asked to speak with a lawyer about a personal problem. Give us a little detail as you can if they pressure you put down something like I’m going to buy a car but I’m not sure if it’s legal. Once you and your lawyer or in a room alone make sure that he is your lawyer and that anything you say is confidential and understand the rules as he explain some to you. Tell him the whole story and give him a copy of your letter. Hope for the best. There will be one and three outcomes. This attorney will tell you that there’s nothing to worry about and you can forget the whole thing or he might see it looks like a problem here and I’ll have to check into it for you. The third outcome which is not too likely is it will promise you the Moon and stab you in the back. I’m sorry but that’s the real world and I wish you the best

Response by SFC William Allen made Mar 22 at 2020 9:32 PM

SFC William Allen — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 21:32:31 -0400

Worst case scenario, if you don't trust your chain of command ( why bother being in the Army then?) you could always go to the chaplain to go outside your chain of command. If the First Sargent won't do something there is the Sargent Major. You got a chain of command-Use it!