My transition leave is being denied (on the basis that I should have leave during taken several block leave periods). How can I fight it?

2017-02-06T13:57:05-05:00

I requested 60 days of transition leave. It was routed through GEARS up the chain of command. When it reached my squadron CSM, it was denied with the statement "To expect him to count against our number for an additional 60 days does not seem right". After it made it to my squadron CMDR, the statement "I will approve NMT 30 days terminal leave".

Response by PO2 Robert M. made Feb 6 at 2017 1:58 PM

2017-02-06T13:58:24-05:00

I would suggest running it up the chain again, including your Squadron CMDR's paperwork attached ( or a copy ).

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Feb 6 at 2017 2:03 PM

2017-02-06T14:03:13-05:00

First, I would talk to your first Sergeant and see what he can do to help. You might also be able to take as much of the extra 30 days as normal leave to begin immediately and see what happens.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2017 2:10 PM

2017-02-06T14:10:47-05:00

I would talk to IG. They can show you and your commander the policy concerning leave established by higher headquarters.
If that doesn't work, file a Congressional complaint with your Congressman. Denying terminal leave for no reason seems like a capricious decision.
However, in the end, you have to accept that the commander is within his right to deny your leave even if it is a poor decision.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2017 2:18 PM

2017-02-06T14:18:05-05:00

SPC Berrier,
I'd find out first if this is a policy, the 30 day max transition, then I'd ask the S1 if anyone has taken more than 30 days for transition leave. Also look up if there is a policy/ memorandum. My hunch is no such policy exists. Once you determine your possible COAs then you have to make a decision. Do I want to leave the Army on a good note or not? A chain of command can make transition smooth or difficult. So, you could ask to see the BC on the Open Door Policy and plead your case. Or you can get the unit or USAREUR IG.
You are already a Know Loss. So the CDR, CSM, S-1 are already reporting your MOS as a shortage. There may be a system there where the replacement is not requisitioned till X-30, 60, 90 days. But, the excuse they provided is not a good one unless you are the one and only guy the unit must have or all missions will fail. And then that opens up a new discussion...

Are you in transition classes? ACAP or TAP

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Feb 6 at 2017 2:25 PM

2017-02-06T14:25:09-05:00

I'm sure the Army "counts noses" differently than the AF does but when I was the Readiness NCO for a deployable unit, anyone who was a KNOWN LOSS (ie: ETS within 120 days) was already reported as a vacancy. If the CSM and/or CMDR is saying "I have to have this one guy or my mission fails", then they have already failed IMO. I'd talk to your S1 and possibly your IG office. They might be able to give you options or point to the appropriate policy/regulation/rule that governs the situation.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Feb 6 at 2017 2:33 PM

2017-02-06T14:33:27-05:00

Since you said Terminal, I'm assuming by transition you mean you are getting out. Sorry, but that's bogus. He can't halt your EAS, especially if you are in good standing. Look up the orders regarding leave/liberty and separations. I took a full 60 days of Terminal because that was the max allowed. Any more leave than that was sold. Not to mention, terminal leave is not taking with your squadron. It's taken with the separations dept of your personnel branch. For Marines, it's called IPAC not sure about Army. If you're taking terminal leave, you are literally assigned to your unit in name only. Otherwise, you are out out. So long see ya later.

So look up the orders and talk to your personnel dept. Like I said, I took a full 60 days terminal, so it can be done.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 6 at 2017 3:58 PM

2017-02-06T15:58:52-05:00

Slow down, the world has not ended.
One: yes the CSM made a statement of exasperation.... You on terminal leave for 60 days, you will be counted against his unit rolls for that entire time.. yes a known loss, and yet still a body to be accounted for.. Subject to recall from leave at any time so deemed required, UCMJ, property accountability, stop loss for deployment (I had SM pulled from terminal leave for all three reasons)
And it sucks as unit leadership to have to account for a body they will never see or make use of as a resource again..But thats the issue the command deals with when you have that much leave.
Additionally he was probable expressing confusion as to how you could have accrued that many days

The commander, made a statement, based on what he likely thought was a "right" position and authority. I'm thinking he will find his position and opinion regulated for him in due course.
And likely that will be the catalyst for him to create a policy that commanders need to be observant of accrued leave for anyone inside 180 days of ETS, and to require SM to take leave so that that they have no more than XX days at ETS>

So what to do now?

Take your leave form denied to the commander again, ask him again for reconsideration, based on no policy or regulation prohibiting you from taking 60 days of transition leave..if no, ask that they do so in writing with justification, if they wont, document the conversation yourself..,

If denied again, Make an appointment with the IG, start out with Sir I have been to the commander twice and confirmed this is his position, "Its not a complaint" but before I contact my congressmen naming the post, Troop , and company commander I wanted to make sure this is a valid reason for denying my leave? Sir that is all Im asking, nothing special, no waivers, no options, not exceptions to policy... just to take my acquired leave as I transition from the service..
At that point hand over COPIES of everything and ask that they provide a written opinion of the legality of denying accrued leave based on the commanders legal standing of "I just dont wana" Ask them if they could get to this in the next business week, so you have time to cancel the congressional inquiry being forwarded.. as that is your desire, to handle this internally..

Thank you sir, look forward to hearing from the Ig's office,.

Id bet you have an answers in just a few days
I also bet you get tasked to every shit detail that does not interferer with TAP classes required by law and regulation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2017 4:23 PM

2017-02-06T16:23:50-05:00

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member not saying that I agree or disagree with your command, but this is what AR 600-8-10 says regarding transition leave:
Section XI
Task: Using Transition Leave
4–21. Rules used to request transition leave
a. Transition leave (formerly called terminal leave) is a chargeable leave granted together with transition from the
Service, including retirement.
b. The unit commander or designee is the approval authority for transition leave requests.
c. Leave will not be granted if it exceeds that accrued or to be accrued between the date of approval and date of
transition. (See para 5–15 and para 5–33 for exceptions.)
d. Leave granted must not interfere with operational requirements, timely processing, or transition processing.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2017 5:08 PM

2017-02-06T17:08:24-05:00

I don't have any advice in this case, but I wonder if it's a coincidence that the unit is loosing a soldier after seeing how the soldier is being treated on ETS?

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Feb 6 at 2017 7:14 PM

2017-02-06T19:14:31-05:00

Line up some older tour buses tell them to report bAck on specific date and time., if they want their benefits. Whe they arrive, tell them there is a special speed processing. Center they will be taken to..
after their all loaded, the driver locks door
And takes them to immigration detention
To be processed to re-enter Mexico..

Response by SSG William Segel made Feb 7 at 2017 7:18 AM

2017-02-07T07:18:01-05:00

If you really don't need to take transitional leave, I would recommend sucking it up and in the end you will get extra money for the leave you never took. I wouldn't even fight it and get the last laugh.

Response by LCpl Shane Couch made Feb 7 at 2017 11:20 AM

2017-02-07T11:20:18-05:00

When i EAS'ed, I had 60 days of leave remaining. I knew that all 60 would not be approved so I did the next best thing and took my 30 days terminal and sold the remaining 30 back.

Response by SSgt Stewart Perry made Feb 10 at 2017 9:09 PM

2017-02-10T21:09:54-05:00

I say stay now....make me suffer with your presence. Cash in the rest.

Response by PO1 Lawrence Fuller made Feb 16 at 2017 4:14 PM

2017-02-16T16:14:58-05:00

Hearing things like this make me happy to call myself an retiree. I retired from the Navy and I took 100 days terminal leave byt it was hust my command because other people where only allowed to lest time. Even when I was in a leadership position i felt this sailor was getting out and my job as and leader was helping thim prepare regardless. Remember you may the same favor in the future and what if they screw you over and that seevice member may be in the business of helping you as an civilian and dont want gim to have ill feeling

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 25 at 2018 7:12 PM

2018-04-25T19:12:05-04:00

What- Ok problem- CSM advises does not command- Commander approved 30 days terminal leave. Do you have enough leave to cover this- cause terminal leave is not a freebie. Think maybe you should get ahold of the retention NCO and the S1 and see what you have and can take, and If you need to run it up higher. Please be polite and careful- they do not have to approve any leave you know.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 20 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-06-20T17:10:14-04:00

Just in case there are other people wondering what the heck GEARS is that he's referring to..

http://netcom.army.mil/Projects/GEARS.aspx

GEARS.aspx

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 20 at 2018 5:43 PM

2018-06-20T17:43:31-04:00

Take thirty go back for a day, and then take the terminal leave.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2019 8:14 PM

2019-03-23T20:14:06-04:00

I did 65ish days and sold the rest back, meb, and the only issue I had was getting s-1 to process my packet