National Guard loses while Regular Army gains. Fair?

2013-12-10T16:16:56-05:00

It seems that the National Guard will be drastically affected by losing all it's Apaches to the Regular Army. I only fear this is the start. Will our Bradleys and Abrams be next. Will the Guard turn into a thrift shop for the Regular Army. I for one don't like to see this. My state has a Battalion of aviation that will be affected by this, if it goes through. So all the pilots that our state has will basically be out of a job or forced to fly something else. It would a major down grade. This will only worry States for lose of their equipment.

Or is this right. Should all guard units go light so they may mobilize quickly? Some states are already light and it takes very few resources to train with such a light force as compared to a Mechanized Brigade Combat Team.

US Army Plans To Scrap Kiowa Helo Fleet

US Army leaders are considering scrapping its entire fleet of Bell Helicopter OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopters, while pulling the National Guard's Boeing AH-64 Apaches into the active-duty force to f...

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 12 at 2013 12:52 PM

2013-12-12T12:52:49-05:00

LT, you have been in long enough on the both sides of the rank structure to know changes always take place, this is not the 1st time this has happened, after Desert Storm, we went through a similar issue then as well. It will even it self out along the way, we just have to ride the storm out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2013 1:27 PM

2013-12-12T13:27:51-05:00

Sir,

I was unaware about the apache, but the reduction of brads and tanks hit across the board. I love my M1 and Brads, but look out, the different variants of Strykers are coming through. The Army will never "get rid" of the heavy tanks, but they are being reduced in numbers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2014 11:16 PM

2014-05-01T23:16:24-04:00

This is a terrible deal for the Guard. I will chime in here as I have worked on these overweight, glorious, wonderfully easy pieces of machinery.

I was a Federal Civil Service Technician for the Guard. For you to have heard the rumors about the Technician program, they are probably all true. Its an easy job, 40 hours a week, 3 day weekends, all Federal holidays, etc.

A lot of people think that the Guard has a lot of its own money. For every dollar we have, .99 of that is the Federal money. For a state like Arizona, where we have VFR or favorable flying conditions 350 days out of the year, its a no brainer that aviation in all facets should stay in Arizona. It produces jobs, and it produces one heck of a product to. Pilots from all branches will tell you that 90% of their maintainers do their best, with less parts, less funding, year after year.

Getting rid of a gunship battalion does NOTHING to help readiness. All the money spent in the transition will now have to go to retraining all of these Warrant Officers and Commisioned officers into a new airframe, and its NOT easy. Especially going from Apache to Blackhawk. While straightforward, not easy.

Next there lies the issue of the massive inventory, benchstock, consumables, etc, that will have to be changed simply because the existing ones are very often, not compatible. It takes a while, and the growing pains are immense. Not the mention, the majority of mechanics will have to relearn the new system, the new manuals, etc. The PC/QC shops will have to be upended and changed because the flow of things was based on one airframe and her turnaround times, now it will all have to be redone. The QC shop will have a new overhaul as well, because of the new airframe.

Its a massive pain and one that I am glad I will no longer have to tackle. I am sure I will hear about it at drill this weekend, but still...its a bad idea all around.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 10:10 PM

2014-09-13T22:10:49-04:00

They ought to give the Guard little birds in return... if they're going to give us MORE Hawks, they ought to be Battlehawks.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 13 at 2014 10:25 PM

2014-09-13T22:25:45-04:00

Save the Kiowa!!!!

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 14 at 2014 12:42 AM

2014-09-14T00:42:09-04:00

When it comes to the Apache the Army will be better served with newer technologies coming on line or in this case already on line with UAV drones. However so this is a bad deal for the Guard. In the late 80's the Army Reserves lost all combat arms that forced me to go into the Guard. This is what eventual lead me to getting out. As they are looking for a RIF this will force more people out much like I was.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Sep 22 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-09-22T11:29:22-04:00

LT give one viable reason any state requires the AH64 attack helicopter versus the UH60 utility helicopter. I cannot for any reason see why a STATE would have an asset to ATTACK and think the decision is best for aviation support as a whole.

There are of course serious political reasons the states wish to retain the AH64........its called $$$$$$$. The media will never be able to release the true reasons this decision was made and no state official will ever publicly announce the reasons they want to retain them.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2014 12:31 PM

2014-10-16T12:31:29-04:00

I think a better question might be, is the current structure of the Army, NG, and Reserve still relevant? Since 2007, the Federal Government can activate an NG unit without input from the Governor of the affected state. Why not combine the NG and the Reserve and train them for similar missions? It removes the need for multiple training pipelines and overlapping force structures.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 17 at 2014 1:11 PM

2014-10-17T13:11:23-04:00

Of course not, but Big Army trumps all.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 3:18 PM

2014-11-30T15:18:03-05:00

I am two folded on this subject... 1) i don't like my state losing any assets or platforms because that takes away training and money both of which the NG/reserves are always hard pressed for... also causes a headache to the unit who has to re-class any SM's on incoming systems...2) on the flip side if all the birds were replaced with CH-47 or blackhawks then i can see the benefit to the other mission set of the NG which is emergency response these platforms are better suited to evac people... NC being on the Eastern sea board is in hurricane ally were really over due a big storm soon ( hope this doesn't happen!!) the birds would come in great use for getting people out...thoughts?

Response by SFC Kevin Childers made Nov 6 at 2023 9:25 AM

2023-11-06T09:25:31-05:00

Question is, if the active force gets new birds, will the same equipment the guard is giving up be returned to the none the better for the added wear? Or will the guard get new birds as well? I see no mention of what, if anything, is happening in the reserve force in relation to this.