National Guard NCOs, how do we fix our APFT numbers? We can not force soldiers to PT outside of IDT status. How can we fix it?

2017-11-20T14:58:26-05:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 3:03 PM

2017-11-20T15:03:21-05:00

You really can't, they are either self motivated or not, you can add additional PT at the end of the drill schedule but really doing this two days a month really does not improve scores, or you can just start doing paper work and put out the ones who can't pass after a while and hope the new recruit is more motivated. Trust me, 23 year in the reserves, did not join until age 32, so I had to stay on top of it even more, plus I am a large guy, 6'3" 250 which means I had to be taped every time as well. But I always managed to pass my PT test and tape.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 3:40 PM

2017-11-20T15:40:06-05:00

Without making a Wall of Shame for those that were booted for APFT failure, not much you can do except continue to stress the importance of PRT outside of BTA.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Nov 20 at 2017 3:53 PM

2017-11-20T15:53:03-05:00

As a former MFT I can tell you that what I did was map out an individual plan for soldiers failing the test to follow. This happened after Counseling was done with each failure and kept on record. I also used to get up early before my "real" job and meet soldiers several early mornings per week at a local school track to assist them with improving their APFT. I'll admit that one needs to be creative but I think we as leaders whether in the Guard, Reserves or Active Duty need figure a way to assist these soldiers. Of course you probably are still going to have some fail and probably be given the boot but as an NCO function I think any Commander is going to want to know what was done to help these Soldiers (officers and enlisted) to meet with APFT success.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 4:58 PM

2017-11-20T16:58:18-05:00

There are only two ways, reduce the standard by shortening the run route or stopping the time watch, or submitting discharge packets for repeated failures. One of these is ethical and one is not... Those are your only real options, doing PT with the Soldiers is a good concept for a very select few, but unenforceable.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 7:01 PM

2017-11-20T19:01:10-05:00

Let me add my Mortar Section is at 100% pass rate. However my company is a different story. Then again mortarman lead from the front.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 11:02 PM

2017-11-20T23:02:48-05:00

That's an easy one. You give them a record PT test. If they fail it they get counseled and are given a PT plan. If they fail again you start to separate them. If a soldier doesn't care enough about maintaining this level of fitness then who knows what else he won't care about. I have a feeling he will be sub standard in another area, if not two or three. Why would a leader want a soldier like this in their unit. I was in the Guard for a while. I have seen this before and these soldiers aren't your top performers.

Response by SSG Jacob Gray made Nov 20 at 2017 11:53 PM

2017-11-20T23:53:34-05:00

Mandatory PT every month until they pass. That is a pretty good motivator

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2017 10:06 AM

2017-11-21T10:06:37-05:00

Positive influence and leadership and communication. It works, ive been there and done that.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2017 10:50 AM

2017-11-21T10:50:35-05:00

I did remedial PT on Sundays w/ the SM's who failed. It was usually a lot of repeats. After remedial I would speak to them all, asking what the issue was. Most people failed the run (no surprise). I would find out who lived near each other and got them all to exchange numbers (not mandatorily), and run with each other at least twice a week. The ones interested would be excited about it, the ones who didn't care would just be quiet. We kick people out who fail over and over again, but it usually takes over a year for it to happen.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 21 at 2017 11:29 AM

2017-11-21T11:29:57-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member "We can not force soldiers to PT outside of IDT status"
There is your problem ... its not an issue of force, its an issue of motivation, leadership, leading by example...for the positive outcome of a fit, healthy lifestyle. Or all of those things to assist a SM to depart the service if they CHOOSE to not uphold the standards..be it at reenlistment time or involuntary separation.

Response by SGT Beth Day made Nov 21 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-11-21T12:05:55-05:00

As someone who struggled with the PT test, especially when I transitioned from active to guard, here's my take. I was "alone" as I drilled a significant distance from where I lived.

Under these circumstances you don't have the "shared pain" of fitness training. Perhaps your answer lies in gym membership, participation in sporting clubs, etc. Any place where there is a supportive environment for training. For example I encourage new recruits who are still in high school to go out for track in the spring. I still remember one very unathletic potential Marine running dead last in a race, and her recruiter running along to encourage! Btw: she is now a proud Marine.
Those recruiters might be an additional resource. In many places they run fitness programs. See if your soldiers could join them. Branch shouldn't matter.
Just a few scattered ideas

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 21 at 2017 4:04 PM

2017-11-21T16:04:14-05:00

If you figure out how, will ya let your brothers in the Reserves know?

There's only so much you can do. In my last year I had my soldiers begin with a goal setting exercise, which consisted of a specific PT plan and specifically stating what they wanted to do; "better PT" is insufficient and non-specific. Something like "I want to increase my PU reps by 5" or "cut my run time by 30 seconds". If it's not specific, its pointless.

Subsequently, I checked in every Friday with each of my soldiers to see what PT they had done and how that compared to their written plan. Couldn't actually verify they were being honest, but there was nothing in it for them to lie, and their PT scores would tell the tale if they had. For those who bought into the program, most of them did see an improvement in their scores, and they passed their test.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2017 12:35 AM

2017-11-22T00:35:33-05:00

I have been in those shoes. not because of APFT failure but Height and Weight. Once my NCOs told me I need to fix it or else I will get kicked out the Army. I moved heaven and Earth to make sure I was a go on the the mext tape test 30 days later

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2017 1:08 AM

2017-11-22T01:08:09-05:00

Counseling, corrective training. They either fix it and pass the APFT or they get booted. As soon as they have a failing APFT or they fail height/weight, they don't get any more of their bonus, any financial aid they're using stops........it's not that hard to pass the APFT

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 4:23 PM

2017-11-24T16:23:12-05:00

Apft as it stands is a joke. It's still from a time that soldiers had to possibly run 2+ miles to get to a safe zone. Now a days that's not the point. Soldiers get older & get broken due to training & combat which makes a lot of soldiers unable to complete a simple task of the Apft. The Apft is in today's army a set up for failure. It needs to be redone.

Response by Sgt Sean Mac made Nov 24 at 2017 4:31 PM

2017-11-24T16:31:05-05:00

People are threaten with being tossed out all the time but they are empty threats and servicemembers know it. No Commander wants to answer up for tossing out fatty's and weak bodies. It will be perceived as a failure in leadership because they could not rectify the issue. In truth, it is a reflection of the soldier and their piss-poor attitude towards PT standards.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 4:39 PM

2017-11-24T16:39:18-05:00

I have been guard for 10 years and never at any point, said “I can’t force u to do PT”

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 4:39 PM

2017-11-24T16:39:53-05:00

Your only option is to pass of be counseled and receive corrective action

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 4:40 PM

2017-11-24T16:40:39-05:00

They get remedial PT after every drill day

Response by SSG Christopher Conklin made Nov 24 at 2017 5:16 PM

2017-11-24T17:16:09-05:00

when I was in WING, we did PT on Saturday mornings, it was part the training schedule for a hour, but that maybe because we were 19D the best of the best.

Response by SSG Christopher Conklin made Nov 24 at 2017 5:18 PM

2017-11-24T17:18:10-05:00

When I was in WING, we did PT every Saturday in was part of our training schedule. We were 19D, the best of the best. Scouts out!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2017 10:44 PM

2017-11-24T22:44:13-05:00

By making the leaders more involved in their soldiers day to day lives. who says you can’t contact a soldier every single day outside of drill? A simple text every day reminding them to run or do some training. I would buy my soldiers fitbits (tax write off) so I could see actual proof that they are training. You can’t force them, but you can annoy the shit out of them on a daily basis and sort of shame them into training. Everyone on the team can be connected and see how much everyone is working out online. Idk, just a random idea I had

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 12:12 AM

2017-11-25T00:12:13-05:00

The Army would not likely put up the funds, but how about a financial assistance program that is similar to tuition assistance? I would propose a reimbursement for expenses used for improving fitness (health clubs, personal trainers, etc). This amount would be proportional to your annual APFT score, and your score would be a qualifier for the funding.
You get 80% reimbursement for a score of (80%) 240-269; 90% for 270-299, and 100% for a perfect 300.

There would be a annual maximum of $1000

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 12:59 AM

2017-11-25T00:59:06-05:00

There is only one fix I can think of that might actually work. I know it may go against some liberal logic as well as some conventional “old school” Army thinking, but here goes. For guard and reservists, the Army should offer to reimburse fees for gym memberships. Now, I know, I know, the neigh sayers out there will chime in with “they should have the discipline to get there asses up and do the bend and reach!”; however, in reality most active component Soldiers are forced to go to morning, and they are provided one or more very nice workout facilities free of charge. I personally struggled with this as a Junior enlisted and yes toughed it out and passed every APFT. The Army does not pay Junior enlisted enough to justify purchasing their own equipment or a gym membership. If you just pay joe more, he’ll just drink more beer (decline on performance follows). So, if you reimburse the gym fees, you will see a concience effort from them and they will have absolutely no excuse to fail. Afterall, you can always pump up their egos with beach muscle remarks for motivation.

Response by 1SG Richard DeBilzan made Nov 25 at 2017 3:29 AM

2017-11-25T03:29:35-05:00

With AD and Guard experience I've witnessed the unfortunate situation in the Guard of soft leaders when it comes to PT. Don't get me wrong, there are some very good ones, but my point is that Soldiers can never be held accountable for PT until leaders are held to the same standard. I don't think you will see progress until an Active Duty detachment (Master Fitness Trainers) comes into every state once a year to conduct an independent APFT from the 2 Star on down.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 9:09 AM

2017-11-25T09:09:47-05:00

Nothing says they have to do or between drills, but if they can't pass the APFT or height/weight, the rules to separate them are clear. But you have to have paperwork showing 3 things: Soldier failed the standard; unit did what it could to rehab the Soldier; and the Soldier still failed to get back into regs. But it has to be in writing.

Response by PVT Thad Lucken made Nov 25 at 2017 10:03 AM

2017-11-25T10:03:09-05:00

pt is for pogs. once clinton gutted the standing army and used the money to buy votes for the dems, pt standards evaporated. then when the actual wars started, everyone realized most of it is just peacetime b.s. the army uses to eat itself to death when there's no actual war going on. do you know how to ACTUALLY fight another man? with your fists? might get injured, cant have that. and the women wouldnt pass so thats out. so lets just sit around weighing each other and writing on stuff. pure dod idiocy. here's a thought? get out the mats and mouthpieces. make them actually fight. then the rest of the time, teach them their actual MOS. leave the presidential physical fitness crap for the rotc wannabes. teach them krav maga and jj. teach them how to hit moving targets with a three to five. otherwise, just realize that all those ng's and er's are just the giant divisions we used to have on conus but now theyre converted to fort livingroom instead of giant pork projects for home districts. most of war is missiles, aircraft and special forces. big dumb infantry units dont really need as much pt as people think and humans on the regular are way more healthy nowadays than compared to the 1940's even if we're fat. people are starting to wake up to the fact that no one is really obsessing about haircuts and pt scores anymore. and why should they? there's two standards and your woman lt doesnt have to actually lift it, why should you? you get trucked or tracked everywhere now anyway. if youre satcom forces, then sure, train for the olympics. if youre a straight leg grunt? meh.

Response by MSG John Joseph made Nov 25 at 2017 1:17 PM

2017-11-25T13:17:43-05:00

I've worked with Guard and seen the best and worse of soldiers. One issue is the Leadership becomes stagnate. For the AGR, it's the same dudes, same units, never any type of rotation and failure to change from the old system. Allot of good ideas come with new commanders but ends up with the same problem your asking. Unfortunately a Commander has to get rid of the good ol boy network and hold Officers and NCO's accountable. Not all cases but very common. There's also the issue of training time, costs and the amount of effort placed on a physical fitness program. 2 days compressed in each month to conduct training isn't enough to establish a training regimen. If most of the "drill" day is spent behind a computer conducting mandated training, there's little time or enthusiasm to enforce PT. However this has to fall on the individual soldier and if there's no self drive to be the best with what what they can effect, why allow advance schooling and promotions. Everyone wants to wear the uniform and grow a beard but a little bit of intestinal fortitude will correct this. It takes forever to remove a NG/AR soldier from the rolls, makes the Commander look bad and it doesn't help if half of the unit is sporting a profile. The dead weight isn't helping to instill a warrior culture and has to find another line of work. Just my $.02

Response by Joseph Ragman made Nov 25 at 2017 3:26 PM

2017-11-25T15:26:06-05:00

Leaders set a positive example and enforce standards. That said it's not without risk, because a career make-or-break issue with which NG commanders must deal that doesn't impact their AC counterparts is strength maintenance. Processing non or low performing Soldiers even with all appropriate counseling documentation will still send red flags up the food chain come time for OER/NCOERS if it negatively impacts your assigned strength.

Response by SGT Chris Stephens made Nov 25 at 2017 11:55 PM

2017-11-25T23:55:16-05:00

It's all about leadership enforcing the standards. Some units have leadership that enforce the standards, and make soldiers take a record APFT test. If they can't pass it multiple times, then you proceed to remove them. Other units, don't really care about it, as leadership is only concerned about making sure they have a certain number of personnel, regardless of whether or not they can pass a PT test. I've been in both types of units and it's frustrating to see. Or, to see soldiers only do the bare minimum in each event so as not to over-exert themselves. For instance, pumping out 42 pushups in less than a minute, and then dropping to their knees. Very frustrating as a member of the unit, and especially as a grader.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2017 7:36 PM

2017-11-27T19:36:07-05:00

Change the Apft like it's been needing to for years

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 12:59 AM

2017-11-28T00:59:05-05:00

WE as leaders hold our subordinates accountable. Just as we are held accountable for the success or failure of our section, squad, or team(s)

Response by CSM Jim Corrin made Dec 2 at 2017 9:25 AM

2017-12-02T09:25:48-05:00

My Battalion's PT program included a one hour run at a good airborne shuffle pace. After losing several members, we would circle around and pick up the stragglers. We eventually were able to maintain the pace and cover 5-6 miles in the hour. Peer pressure makes a lot of difference.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 9:01 PM

2018-04-07T21:01:11-04:00

Active duty for 12 years and national guard for almost 3 years. I say the standard is the same. If you do not pass the apft then maybe a small article 15. You loose some of your muta pay. After 3 months of not showing improvement then you loose your contract to the national guard

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2018 9:01 PM

2018-11-14T21:01:53-05:00

The problem I see is the numbers game. While young hard-chargers advocate for the “counsel and separate” approach they will not get the support from the higher ups because bodies in slots justifies a unit’s existence. Reduce the force and you cannot justify the expense of the units so they get rolled up. Fewer units means fewer major commands. Fewer major commands mean your general isn’t authorized as many stars. This is why it is he’s to remove AWOL Soldiers and such. So to change this we must have a leadership change that focuses more on the readiness of the force than their rank.

Response by LTC Kenneth Harris made Nov 15 at 2018 5:51 AM

2018-11-15T05:51:37-05:00

Having been in all three components I can comment in this. Yes, a free gym membership might encourage or help a few but people pay and don't go every January. What you need is a monthly work out schedule, and a set goal for each Soldier with some kind of reward or recognition: both individual and unit.

Response by LTC Kenneth Harris made Nov 15 at 2018 5:58 AM

2018-11-15T05:58:45-05:00

Having completed last month a half marathon after not running for 4 years (my last APFT was April 2014 before retirement). My one and only half before that was in 2012. You don't need a gym or expensive equipment, but a work out plan and some common sense to avoid injury and recovery time. It was a painful 5 months, but at 58 1/2 I completed the run 2.5 hours. So these young Soldiers can do it. All kinds of rewards at the end of the run.

Response by SPC Simon Williams made Nov 15 at 2018 11:39 AM

2018-11-15T11:39:16-05:00

I was guard for 6 years, 14 years seperated, then another 6 years. I see two big problems with "Self PT". First many Guard and Reservists work 50+hours/week at civilian jobs and many attend college on top of that. Add to that the required SSD training and other training requirements that the Guardsman/Rrservist must do on their own time and that presents little time to do good and proper work outs. This is especially true with office dweller who suffer from low metabolisms because they drive a desk all day.
The second biggest problem that i see is a much bigger one. As an active duty soldier if you get hurt, you get free medical, but not only that, an injury could cause a potential disability. Where a full time soldier is covered, the citizen soldier is not. Example, i suffered a 360° lambrum tear of my right shoulder while at the gym (paid for by me) doing push ups. I wasn't lifting that day and was ironically doing a self diagnostic APFT. I was on the hook for the surgery and if it had occured while training, an LOD would have been issued and i could have recieved a VA disability for the injury. That is kinda huge.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 12:03 PM

2018-11-15T12:03:01-05:00

There's no one-size-fits-all solution, so it's challenging. The Guard, and probably reserves, operate a bit differently. We won't separate a soldier for failing the APFT, but they won't get promoted and they won't be retained. For anyone in a leadership position, take the job away and drop them in rank. Dropping rank is also an option for lower enlisted. Incentivize performance, set a unit goal and if the goal is met then provide a unit cook-out. Reimburse soldiers for a gym membership, at a limit; you can still accomplish a lot with a Planer Fitness membership. Recognize efforts, I received a coin from our BDE commander for getting over 290, a soldier that struggles to pass might receive a letter of commendation for hitting a specific mark of improvement. Provide resources, soldiers may not know the best way to improve and just keep doing the same things that prevent them from passing. Outside motivation isn't always difficult to find, organizations such as Team RWB will have weekly events and can help some soldiers network better, and provide resources that the soldier can use. It seems like a whirlwind of options, but the best plan of attack is three dimensional and doesn't rely on one method of approach.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-11-15T13:23:43-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member you will have no issues when ACFT comes out.

Ok in all seriousness you can only hold your Soldiers to a standard while they are on orders, but you can help motivate them. You can have your Commander implement a program to reward those who excel and rebuke those who fail the standards such as AAMs (would need to work with BC) for 270 and above or 300s with 270-299 getting COAs. Reduce all E-5/E-6 (O-5 level) a rank for failing their APFT and ht/wt and CO CDR can reduce E-4 and below. However, some are great Soldiers for everything else and this may kill their motivation and soon you will have a no-show. First-line leader involvement helps. I know some SGTs who would meet with their Soldiers who lived by them at the gym or a park to workout to get them to pass.

Response by SGT Clint Smith made Nov 15 at 2018 2:08 PM

2018-11-15T14:08:14-05:00

The upper NCO command has to agree but take half of each drill day and use old school Max PT on them have them in a separate platoon as a further shame to fix themselves if they cant pass after six months separate them

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 3:01 PM

2018-11-15T15:01:54-05:00

As a Commander, I incorporated PT into every drill. I would rotate which sections were in charge each month and they would go over their plan with me the month before. This showed that it was important to me. At AT, we did PT three days each week. This was more of a traditional PT with the standard events. We scheduled a morning and evening time to give everyone a chance to hit one or the other. If a SM failed their APFT, they were counseled and given 6 months to pass. If they didn't pass the second one, I'd give them one more chance, but they had to give me a stripe for that chance. This included NCOs (didn't have any officers attached). If they didn't want to voluntarily give a stripe, we processed them for discharge. I put out about 10 people, but 6 out 7 who gave up a stripe passed on the 3rd try. I immediately promoted them back to their original rank with original date of rank.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 3:17 PM

2018-11-15T15:17:04-05:00

The activities at drill go a long way to fueling the soldier to do his part. If the soldier feels his time is being wasted, then he is not overly motivated to invest more of this valuable resource, time. Tge Guard has so many structural and Leadership problems. But when it comes to administering the 30+ year old APFT we follow the regulation to the letter. The same is true for height/weight, and the taping of soldiers. We cannot seem to lead them, we cannot seem to get them paid on time, we cannot get awards into their hands timely, we cannot update their records without creating a goat-screw of a drill, we can't meet SP times. But we can line our soldiers up like sheep and read the reg. to them on how to do a proper pushup at an exact prescribed time regardless of rain or shine. Then we take NCO's and make them SME's on how to pull a tape. This is only thing that we do to standard. But we fault our soldiers, when they fail to rise to the occasion on the one occasion we as leaders decide to show up. Lead and they will follow. Don't waste their time, and they will do what it takes to be there.

Response by SSG William Lammott made Nov 15 at 2018 3:31 PM

2018-11-15T15:31:31-05:00

I want to be able to trust my fellow soldier just in case he/she has to drag my ass a mile to safety just as I would do for them. Fitness is key to a successful mission. All active duty, National Guard and reserves should be held to the same standards of fitness and readability.

Response by SSG Charles Holleran made Nov 15 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-11-15T15:59:08-05:00

I was in Germany one time and I remember standing in the motor pool in formation waiting for the SGM and the BN Commander to show up. The issue was we all were in shorts and tee shirts and they the SGM and BN Commander showed up in full sweats and as we got rained on they stood under cover in the maintenance bays dry and then made us go on a 5 mile run after getting soaked. My point is if the lower ranks need to meet the standards then no matter what rank, or job you hold in the military you should be held to that standard too. Period. If you want to put a lower enlisted out for PT failure then you need do the same to the higher ranks for their failures or lack of even doing any physical training because of their position or rank.

Response by SSG Mark Matteson made Nov 15 at 2018 5:17 PM

2018-11-15T17:17:21-05:00

If no medical issues are found then you must follow the regs. This is where true leadership comes in to play, if your soldiers are failing, its on you. They either wantbto be here or they dont. Withold drill pay till they pass. Hpws that idea?

Response by SGT David Nicholas made Nov 15 at 2018 8:38 PM

2018-11-15T20:38:40-05:00

As a former TXANG soldier, the only way to "fix it" is to hold soldiers accountable! If they cant adhere to Army standards then they should be booted out and lose any bonuses they received! Their contract is the same as USAR and RA!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 9:42 PM

2018-11-15T21:42:36-05:00

NCOs need to stop being afraid of their subordinates. Train, Motivate and Lead. If all else fails use your options. If all else fails cut them loose to make room for those who want be in and make the standard. Clean up the UMR of dead weight

Response by LCDR Tim McKenzie made Nov 15 at 2018 9:48 PM

2018-11-15T21:48:54-05:00

Lsugh at them. Tell them thst they are disgusting fat bodies who move like old people f&ck.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 11:29 PM

2018-11-15T23:29:47-05:00

2 months worth of training time per year...
Units at sub 75% strength INCLUDING PT and tape failures...

Sorry, but there are far more important concerns than the PT test.... Like... Almost everything else....

P S It's just going to get worse with the (Still irrelevant to combat) ACFT

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2018 3:04 AM

2018-11-16T03:04:33-05:00

PT during each monthly drill, both days, at end of day. That way they go home feeling energized and feeling good. This should help to inspire them to work out on their own at home diring the month. Give them a PT plan and creative ideas on how to improve strength, improve endurance, cardio without costs of gym memberships and better techniques for PT test exercisrs. Not everyone can afford a gym mbrship in order to be reimbursed, not everyone lives close enough to a gym to go, even those who do, dont; regularly, involves more time and gas, other valuable resources... empower them, dont write them off without trying to get them out of a rut...

Response by SP5 Paul Jones made Nov 16 at 2018 7:56 AM

2018-11-16T07:56:15-05:00

I respect those who chose to serve in today’s National Gard and feel it is important to be in the best shape possible. But in many locations there is no reasonable and cost effective place for regular exercise unless it is provided at HQ

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Nov 16 at 2018 11:26 AM

2018-11-16T11:26:43-05:00

When I got out of Active Duty I went into the Reserves. I was in about a year when they gave me a PT test. I passed mine but many others did not. The standard should be pass the test and if you fail you go on remedial PT for X months then retested. If the soldiers fail start separating them. This will get their attention and also enforce the Army Standards for PT

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-11-16T11:51:31-05:00

As a lower enlisted soldier in the Guard who has struggled with pt. It came down to motivation, I have no motivation to be a PT stud, if all my drills will consist of is redundant computer classes, a class thrown together last minute by an NCO to fill time, or just setting around looking at my phone for a weekend. If I personally felt that the guard was in someway making me a better person or helping the community outside of our 2 weeks. Then I would actually buy into being a soldier and strive to Excell past the standard. As of right now the only motivation I have is a $40 a drill pay raise. Which isn't much motivation for the average person to take an hour a day of their time out of an already busy life.

My suggestion to fix the issue is twofold.
1. Enforce the consequences of not passing a PT test. In the 5 years I've been in I have yet to see a soldier even be threatened separation let alone it actually happen.
2. Make drills relevant and productive. I'm in a vertical construction unit. We do at most 1 project or even a hands on training that is relevant to our MOS in a year outside of AT. That quickly kills morale and any motivation a soldier has to buy into the National Guard and push themselves to be an excellent soldier in all facets.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-11-16T13:00:52-05:00

You can try something like I am going to present to the guard units in my area. I am a certified personal trainer and group instructor. I created a program that works in a crawl, walk, run, style. We start foundation of exercise with correct form on body weight movements then eventually move up to weights. Whole system is based on progression in athletic ability. So people that are PT studs and people thT are coach potatoes can both progress at the same time. Instead of smoking the crap out of weak burning them out and making them not want to workout outside of drill. Get them to where you want them without injury and create a lifestyle

Response by 1SG Michael Hargis made Nov 16 at 2018 1:41 PM

2018-11-16T13:41:29-05:00

I didnt read all of the comments, but I saw most of these ideas before I retired. First and foremost if the Soldier doesn’t have any self discipline nothing will work. Positive motivation only works when it’s reinforced regularly, which is difficult to do via phone. One thing that hasn’t been tried is for the Army to seek reimbursement from the Soldier for the training they’ve received thus far. For instance, if it cost $30k to put PVT XX through IET/AIT and a year down the road he fails, and following the regulatory guidance, is separated. Then the government charges him, at a prorated calculation for his training. Also they could give BCD’s for failure to maintain fitness. Some would say that some of our troops don’t make much outside of BA so it won’t effect them much. I would disagree due to the tax laws they still get a tax return, unless it’s garnished. Is this harsh? Yes! Even the AC has PT failures where they, generally, have organized PT. So this method puts the onus on the Soldier - where it should be! Being unfit is a selfish act. If you’re unconscious sitting in a burning vehicle and you’re just a big hunk of lard, with equipment, there’s a good chance that even in my fittest days I can’t get you out because you were too selfish to maintain a reasonable weight.

Response by SFC William Huse made Nov 16 at 2018 7:07 PM

2018-11-16T19:07:38-05:00

I was a reservist, we didn't have to keep in shape. But, when drill weekend rolled around and you had to take a PT test, you better pass it. Twice a year you gut it out and pass the test, how tough can that be. Suck it up!

Response by MSG Donald Bedford made Nov 16 at 2018 7:08 PM

2018-11-16T19:08:07-05:00

When I first joined the Reserve, after being out for 5 years. I struggled with the APFT. I took a civilian truck driving job working the Family Dollar account. That job requires the driver to unload the truck. After a month doing that job I was able to pass.

Response by 1SG John A Yule made Nov 16 at 2018 8:04 PM

2018-11-16T20:04:51-05:00

MSG. retired .
As with all things words have meanings reserve has a meaning either National Guard or US Army reserve. are not and never will be regular Army ready at all times .It has been my feeling that they need to be in a state of pre activation readniess which to me is the ability to be in such shape as in a set period of time from activation to then be ready for deployment.
The reserves are not training all the time and most have very busy civilian lives . To expect them at all times to meet Army physical standards is ludicrous as regular Army spends every working day keeping troops ready. Reserve troops should have to meet weigh standards and be fit and healthy and be ready at any time to train up to regular Army PT standards.
Regular physical stress test , weights ins , and physical examinations with the usual PT during drills if you pass these things it should take no time at all during the beginning of activation to bring them up to Army PT standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 8:36 AM

2018-11-17T08:36:00-05:00

BN, BDE, and State have to follow policy and chapter APFT failures out. They talk a big game about abiding by the rules, but retention is their main mission, si they leave the problem children around to keep numbers up. If we get rid of that, and have only a dedicated force, retention and recruitment will get better. Higher ups will blame us in the lower levels for "doing it to ourselves", but they ultimately have to finish the paperwork trail.

Response by SPC Darryl Austin made Nov 17 at 2018 9:37 AM

2018-11-17T09:37:11-05:00

This attitude towards soldiers is one of the reasons I am so glad I am out. In this logic, the 125 pound idiot kid who can fly though PT because he is only carrying, and pushing, and sitting up 125 pounds is a better soldier than the 200 pound brick shithouse who may struggle on his run? And oh, by the way, LT thinks this means the 200 pounder is deficient in other areas? Why don't you drum every binger fanging poor shooter out of the military. I have personally remediated dozens of PT champs who couldn't shoot the broad side if a barn... but what do we so with them? Well we send them to get retrained and coached and helped until they pass. Even if it is their 17th time, a pass is a pass, and the soldier moves on with their career. Give me a break. This attitude is because command in the military is good at one thing and one thing only - CHECKING BOXES. God forbid you hurt LTs numbers. Furthermore, I would rather have a 200 pound run struggler pulling me out of a burning HUMVEE than a 125 pound "PT Stud" any day of the week. I would also rather have a PT failure who can shoot 40 of 40 by my side, than a runner who shoots the minimum 23 in a fight, wouldn't you?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 9:51 AM

2018-11-17T09:51:31-05:00

First you counsel and FLAG them - which means no favorable actions. Can’t go to school, can’t get promoted, can’t get awards (well, that happens if they fail height/weight. Then give them an APFT for record each month, until you start the separation paperwork. Oh and if they get separated and are using the GI bill, they will lose that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-11-17T13:23:28-05:00

I communicate with my soldiers regularly on pt. I send videos of me working out and rucking and try to keep them motivated consistently,I send little motivational comments and videos . I have one super high speed E5 and one not so .

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 1:27 PM

2018-11-17T13:27:33-05:00

They’re not called weekend warriors for nothing.

Response by PFC Bob Wherrett made Nov 17 at 2018 4:15 PM

2018-11-17T16:15:00-05:00

50 sit ups, 50 pushups, 20 pull ups, run 3 miles. Every day! PFT pass every time. Discipline...

Response by SPC Fred Harrington made Nov 17 at 2018 6:20 PM

2018-11-17T18:20:40-05:00

I was seven active duty. I got out for reason I’ll not get into. I never served as Reserve, but I served with Reserves during a REFORGER exercise. I was NOT impressed...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 11:22 PM

2018-11-17T23:22:32-05:00

This is an Army problem. Take a page from the Marines to fix it. We don't encourage top conditioning in the Army from Day 1. We allow PT profiles which further kills morale. I've seen Guard units with every Senior NCO on a damn walking profile... Disgusting! Leaders have to fix themselves before a reasonable solution will be found.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2018 1:59 AM

2018-11-18T01:59:24-05:00

When I was a Battery Commander, I had a few Soldiers who consistently failed 5ge APFT. My 1SG and I started the process for separation, however it is ultimately up to the Adjutant General of each state to deny or approve the separation. At the time, our state was worried about retention and end strength numbers so none of my APFT failures were separated. When APFT failures were separated, they received General Discharges with no consequences for failing to meet and maintain standards of being a Soldier. Maybe I'm just old school and mean, but I believe if you get chartered out for failing to maintain standards, you deserve an Other Than Honorable discharge. Why should they be eligible to receive veteran status and benefits when they failed to uphold their end of the contract?

Response by Maj Bruce Pawlak made Nov 18 at 2018 5:40 AM

2018-11-18T05:40:10-05:00

Tough issue here... Great conversation... Offering some 'brain-storming' here... Looking at it from a different perspective, some law enforcement agencies offer bonus pay for those officers/deputies who pass their PT tests... So why not offer a proficiency pay incentive for troops who pass the AFPT...

Response by 1SG Britt Smith made Nov 18 at 2018 6:53 AM

2018-11-18T06:53:59-05:00

Folks, the Guard has become reluctant to separate any Soldier for APFT failure. It's all about numbers and State funding. The Guard has a difficult time meeting their recruitment as well as their retention numbers. It was my experience over my 31 years with 20 of those in the Guard that the Soldiers who wanted to pass did so and those who didn't maintain a PT schedule during the month did not wish to pass. It's all a matter of priorities and trying to force it during a drill weekend doesn't accomplish very much at all.

Response by SMSgt William Gardner made Nov 18 at 2018 9:08 AM

2018-11-18T09:08:56-05:00

When I was still in the, the Air Force had the same problem.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2018 10:01 AM

2018-11-18T10:01:31-05:00

It’s always fun to make fun of the Air Force, however one thing that they do very well, is that they outsource their Physical Training (PT) test, that way officers can’t pencil whip their own PT Tests, amongst them selves. Start enforcing the standard from the top, and it will trickle down. Also, do away with preferential lower standard PT Tests, for female servicemembers. They get the same pay, same opportunities, we should have the same standard.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Nov 18 at 2018 1:15 PM

2018-11-18T13:15:09-05:00

You council failures and start separating them. I like the idea of the military paying for gym memberships as most active duty have access to the base gym, most reservist and guardsmen don’t live on base

Response by SGT George Lamont made Nov 18 at 2018 5:35 PM

2018-11-18T17:35:40-05:00

Make it an SOP and put it in the UTS.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2018 7:56 PM

2018-11-18T19:56:50-05:00

Just to clarify, the National Guard and the Reserves have the same issues as Active Components. As a NCO, you don't have the power to fix APFT numbers. You can only do what is pushed down through the chain of command. Depending on the numbers of your state, you may just have to counsel the soldier and give remedial. The sad part is, it put tremendous strain on the individuals that are required to baby sit the PT failures. Personally while being placed in acting CO position for a Engineer Company the directive came from the Brigade Commander. So weather good or bad it was their call. The other issue I ran into is they would come right out of basic flagged because they couldn't pass the APFT and was sent back to unit and the unit would have to either get the individual to pass or process him or her out. Which took a considerable amount of wasted manhours.
On the Reserve/National Guard side, there really is no fix for APFT numbers, we don't have the option of day care or the the time to waist like AC does.

Response by SSG Rob Miller made Nov 19 at 2018 1:47 AM

2018-11-19T01:47:34-05:00

This might not be a popular fix. Start a war. Through out my career of 23 years 4 months and 10 days of service. I have noticed when the big army needs numbers they look the other way during pre mobe. Fat over weight and can’t pass a pt test. Shit your on the list. The only thing that happens is they will not be promoted on deployment. When war is over they oust them unless they get an old a lod in country. I’m old school. Be all you can be. If your not motivated to hold the standards and discipline. I don’t need you on my aircraft. So here is the delima. Most NG are combat vets now and they fill privilege. They earned that right in my eyes but you have to hold the standards So to motivate the soldiers. Cut the dead weight and motivate your troops. Better to bleed in training than on the battlefield. So follow the guidelines. Be a NCO and not a SGT.

Response by SFC Howard Kempf made Nov 19 at 2018 11:13 AM

2018-11-19T11:13:41-05:00

Stop promotions. Stop allowing favoritism for staff. Stop pencil wiping PT Cards to make the unit look good. Require effective 4187s on every Soldier ever drill. Make sure unsat PT scores reflect on NCOER and enlisted evals. Stop trying to be a buddy, ve a leader and hold your peers and subordinates accountable.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-11-19T12:49:38-05:00

RC Soldiers get 4 days pay for a two day drill/battle assembly. You can do a lot of push ups , sit ups and running in the balance of two days owed ( IMHO ). It has been my experience that you don’t need a gym for improvement in PU/SU and only needed in winter months for the run.

Response by SPC Ryan Vanlaanengregory made Nov 19 at 2018 1:20 PM

2018-11-19T13:20:22-05:00

You could, mentor your soldiers more than just during drill weekend... chaptering soldiers especially juinor enlisted for apft failures is a direct reflection of failed leadership. "Well I passed mine" cool for you bro, you gonna drag your joes shit up a mountain when you get deployed? On active duty there was structure in place to instill behavior. Out in civilian life thats gone. There are also a host of free fitness tracking apps, who doesnt have a smartphone these days? Set up accounts and get your Joes to show you their progress. On drill weekends get them to do PT instead of hanging arround for an hour for first formation. That will be your monthly guage as to whos slacking off and who isnt.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 4:47 PM

2018-11-19T16:47:14-05:00

Same struggle it's been for 18 years. This year I watched 20 year olds huff and puff to do the push-ups while me at 41 passed my APFT. You can say what you will but without a little effort, for me it's push up and sit ups a couple times a week it's not hard to pass. I am worried about this new APFT that's coming and wondering how the guard will afford the equipment for it

Response by 1LT Gary Montgomery made Nov 19 at 2018 5:06 PM

2018-11-19T17:06:41-05:00

Active duty have access to post/brigade gyms at no cost. At least that was my experience at Ft Leonard Wood so no excuse. Why not hold them to the standard, and reimburse for memberships up to a certain amount based on local gym fees? Then there is no excuse. I was outside my height weight charts, 6'1" 225lbs. I always but beat up the tape test and PT Tests, I was a prior colkege football player so fitness was and nutrition was always important to me. Not asking guys/gals to be super jocks but they should at least be able to pass a PT test to stay in unless the have a profile exemption.

Response by SGT Blaise Ashton made Nov 19 at 2018 7:57 PM

2018-11-19T19:57:46-05:00

In the civilian world employers ask "Are you a good fit?" Do the reserves ask the same question? Regular Army Soldiers have the benefit of NCO's and Officers ensuring that Soldiers meet standards. Perhaps create a reserve participation requirement involve a psychological fitness assessment of self-motivation and desire to lead.

Response by 1SG Rob Croxdale made Nov 19 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-11-19T20:37:13-05:00

In my company, Soldiers that fail the APFT have to come in two hours early and do the APFT the first day of the drill period each drill. If they pass, they are done. Those that still fail, come in on Sunday for remedial PT. That happens each month until they pass.

If not, the counseling and administrative stuff will eventually catch-up with them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 9:21 PM

2018-11-19T21:21:59-05:00

Easy answer. Get rid of the APFT all together. It is not used to actually test whether someone is fit to do their job. I have seen plenty of PT failures perform exceptionally at their jobs and I have seen plenty of people get selected to go to schools because they have a 300. The APFT has far too much importance than what it actually needs.

Since they’re far too many folks who have a misguided amount of importance on the test this will never happen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 9:28 PM

2018-11-19T21:28:42-05:00

Why not give tax incentives to personal trainers or gym owners for documented improvements. It wouldn’t be hard for commanders to work with existing resources if the business was incentivized.

Response by SPC Tim Marshall made Nov 20 at 2018 7:36 AM

2018-11-20T07:36:40-05:00

ETS those that do not fulfill their obligations, PT or otherwise.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Nov 20 at 2018 8:44 AM

2018-11-20T08:44:09-05:00

Well..I was never in the Army guard but PT failure is PT failure. To me, these soldiers that know there is a requirement and don't live up to it and fail, need to run the process for separation. The probelm is that even National Guard and Reserve troops can and are called up on moments notice to deploy. If they can't pass the physical standards then they aren't ready to deploy. They will get someone hurt or killed if they aren't physically ready. It is a requirement...plain and simple. They are adults and the option of being discharged for failure may the the motivator they need. I don't need to worry about someone standing overwatch for me being able to get to the overwatch and manuever if need be to provide top cover for others...I need to know that my unit is ready to cover each others backs whent he proverbial feces hits the oscillating device.

Response by Sgt Matt Owens made Nov 20 at 2018 1:02 PM

2018-11-20T13:02:39-05:00

Reimbursement for gym membership? How much does it cost to get a pull-up bar? Between that, sit-ups, pushups, squats, running, etc, you can stay in excellent condition without going to a gym. As a matter of fact, I can count on one hand the number of times (in 9 years of active duty) that PT included any equipment beyond a pull-up bar, if that. The problem is that they don't care enough to discipline themselves to do it, so separate them, they are likely poor performers anyway.

Response by SGT Mike Mann made Nov 20 at 2018 1:31 PM

2018-11-20T13:31:00-05:00

I was in the Kansas National Guard. While deployed to Iraq my company 1SG informed me that Army Regulations were just a guide. I’m assuming he meant they were enforced ONLY on the unpopular soldiers. APFT included!

Response by SGT Reo Youngs made Nov 21 at 2018 11:57 AM

2018-11-21T11:57:09-05:00

They are national guard

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 12:23 PM

2018-11-21T12:23:49-05:00

My old unit had soldiers with an APFT score below 210 show up 2 hours prior to first formation and conduct PT. This happened on both or all three drill days. No, forced PT 2-3 times a month will not improve overall scores alone. However, having to show up for fat camp while the rest of the unit is still sleeping builds motivation to exercise between drills and not have to show up earlier than required.

Response by CW3 Robert Haffly made Nov 21 at 2018 3:10 PM

2018-11-21T15:10:57-05:00

This isn't the biggest problem with the National Guard, politics holds that esteemed position. Just ask the officers above company grade.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 3:48 PM

2018-11-21T15:48:50-05:00

Not only is it the Joe’s responsibility, but also fellow team leaders out there for contacting them. Ensuring that they are actually keeping up to their word. I had one of my privates fall out of a ruck not even a mile in. After that weekend I had this private ruck every week increasing the millage and weight carried. Because of my constant contact, wanting proof as a picture of him rucking and millage every time. That private now specialist is now not only able to maintain a solid time with ruck marches, but learned how to overcome obstacles!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 4:13 PM

2018-11-21T16:13:40-05:00

I was in the Reserve for 7 years now active duty and never had an issue. Its called disipline.

Response by SN Jay Perry made Nov 21 at 2018 7:18 PM

2018-11-21T19:18:10-05:00

My usn Reserve outfit first evolution after lunch on Sunday was a mile and a half run, you fell out guess what the executive officer was a guy who ran triathlons and he would motivate you because you now had two runs on drill weekends Saturday and Sunday!

Response by Sgt Marion Kinrade made Nov 21 at 2018 8:14 PM

2018-11-21T20:14:52-05:00

Activate them, after 1 or 2 go on active duty the rest will get their head out of their asses!

Response by SR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 10:01 PM

2018-11-21T22:01:03-05:00

By thinking outside the box. Have nation wide gyms bid for a gov’t contract and ensure soldiers are aware that they can obtain a gym membership for free. That’ll motivate many to stay in shape. Also, leadership by example. If Senior Staff NCOs and Officers are in great physical and mental shape, that alone will motivate junior soldiers to step up!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 7:39 AM

2018-11-22T07:39:39-05:00

See some people have a shallow thinking ability. It is not that black and white. I don’t know the fix either but it is not just as simple as we will kick you out. You have to remember that some soldiers work 60 to 70 hours a week between traveling and work. I do, and no I have never failed. I am fortunate that way but I don’t set the world on fire either. But I have deployed 4 times and many of my counterparts and fellow guardsmen have too. Yes even the ones that didn’t pass night and weight or the APFT. They still performed to a high standard. And now that they were being afforded the time to workout properly lost the weight and most all passed the pt test. There is no simple answer to fix it. I do however agree it is on the shoulders of the soldier.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 11:10 AM

2018-11-22T11:10:50-05:00

Simple. After failing a PT test you get a retake and if you fail the retake then you get discharged. I'm in the reserves and we have a big problem with this. People dont care about passing because they know nothing will happen if they fail. If people got kicked out then they would have motivation to pass the PT test

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-11-22T11:53:24-05:00

The new PT we are transitioning to will get Reserves into shape if not have infantry drill SGT’s square them away the infantry part would lite a fire under there ass and the Drill SGT part would humiliate and humble them

Response by MSG Bruce Morris made Nov 22 at 2018 12:16 PM

2018-11-22T12:16:52-05:00

I passed every pft because o saw an opportunity for promotion , I say for guardsmen that pass pt test I say quilt for a bonus per year or have two two week trainings a year one in the spring and one in the fall do away with Jan. Feb and March drills to help with funding .

Response by SFC Keith Johnson made Nov 22 at 2018 12:51 PM

2018-11-22T12:51:35-05:00

Incentive PT program was established after identifying soldiers who were weak in pt. Then a t timetable was established through progression. With emphasis on the importance of passing for future promotions. At the same time encouraging the soldier of how important it is to stay in shape both mentally and physically. My unit would give awards for passing of the test as an incentive even though it's requirement. For motivation purposes. A certificate from the CO. At the same time, counseling and progression are important.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-11-22T13:23:29-05:00

This is a leadership problem. Our leaders are not held accountable enough for their subordinates fitness level. I have sat on promotion boards and it is rare to see that our Senior NCO’s or Junior NCO’sh have anything on their NCOER about their Soldiers fitness levels. However, they get a “Far Exceed”, because they can score 90 in each event. If their upward progression depended on getting results from their Soldiers then it would be important to our leaders. It needs to be a part of the baseline . The NCOER is how you fix the problem. I am all for other creative ways to help lower level Soldiers. Outside the box thinking is nessassary and I think we should consider gym membership reimbursement, having full time staff run PT sessions at local armories 2-3 days a week, challenges that involve reward.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-11-22T19:17:51-05:00

A lot of people here have some serious problems as leaders. We have a serious problem coming up. First, the new PT test is going to take a lot more time to prepare for, time that is very precious to our Guard and Reserve soldiers. Second, the new retirement system is going to allow a lot of people to bail on the Army without losing anything. So if the Army goes the route of negative motivation, a lot of people are going to be perfectly happy to ETS or take the paperwork and get chaptered out, because it won't hurt them at all.
Maybe we should focus on making sure awards get processed in a timely fashion and paychecks get paid on time. Maybe bonuses should get paid and people should get positive, supportive leadership with opportunities for advancement and achievement and make sure soldiers' time outside drill isn't wasted on pointless minutiae and administrative BS. That would be a starting point.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 9:09 PM

2018-11-22T21:09:15-05:00

I do not think the army should hold the guards and reservists to the same PT standards if they don’t pass just don’t promote or let them go to schools in times of war you need bodies to fight if you’re really worried about them passing then put them on active duty for 90 days and make them run every day then they will pass

Response by TSgt John Keys made Nov 22 at 2018 9:15 PM

2018-11-22T21:15:54-05:00

Hey set the standard that’s to be maintained by everyone no exceptions if you want to stay in the Guard There has to be consequences for not maintaining the standards

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-11-22T22:37:07-05:00

Every one of these answers are ludicrous. Everyone of you are failures as leaders. I did my time in the reserves, and I saw the level of leadership and quality of soldiers. I could go on a rant, but come at me individually and I WILL change you're mind.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2018 12:45 AM

2018-11-23T00:45:35-05:00

The only thing we can do is give them a PT test, if they fail, counsel them and make them do remedial PT during drill, if they fail the next PT test, then UCMJ and flag them. This is taking into account that the Soldier does not have any medical reasons/injuries, if this is the case, get them to a military doctor and get it fixed, or get them a permanent profile for alternate events. Being physically fit enough to pass a PT test and do your job is a BASIC soldier function. Also most armory's have gyms in them. NCO's also need to communicate and check in with their soldiers frequently during the month, and motivate them to stay in shape. Remember, even if we only wear the uniform one weekend a month, we don't stop being soldiers the other 28/29 days. If it comes down to it, put them on RMA's a couple days a week of you have to. A last resort before either reducing them or separating them is the fitness camp... we have had several PT failures from my unit go through this camp, on orders, and they got back into shape. I can understand us older soldiers slacking and slipping, but what gets me is most of the PT failures in my unit are the younger soldiers who haven't been out of Basic/AIT for very long. We had one soldier who hasn't even been out a month, reported to the unit, and failed the PT test his first drill. They get home, go back to their old life and lose motivation... once again that s where us NCO'S, from the Battery/company 1SG, down to the SGT level need to step in and provide that motivation

Response by MAJ John Collins made Nov 23 at 2018 10:02 AM

2018-11-23T10:02:31-05:00

We have a culture issue. Only 25% of military age kids are eligible to join the military. The rest are too fat, have criminal records, or drug issues. There is also a huge group that feels entitled and thinks they should get stuff without the effort. We can discharge APFT failures and reduce the force or find a carrot that would appeal to new soldiers.

Response by SGT Robert Friedman made Nov 23 at 2018 3:39 PM

2018-11-23T15:39:57-05:00

Give them a place to work out and incenntivise.

Response by SFC Michael Elam made Nov 23 at 2018 8:10 PM

2018-11-23T20:10:23-05:00

I am a old retired active duty guy. I never understood how the guard and reserves functioned

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Nov 23 at 2018 8:51 PM

2018-11-23T20:51:52-05:00

Pay for their membership to a ymca with trainer. If unable to pass after nine months and a written warning every month the it will be so long

Response by 1SG Dutch Hayden made Nov 24 at 2018 8:28 AM

2018-11-24T08:28:10-05:00

I know I'm "Old Guard", many years ago the Chief of the National Guard, said.
"In the National Guard, physical fitness is an INDIVIDUAL responsibility ". The A.G. & D.C. of the INARNG denied everything, i.e. promotions, schools, etc.unless the Soldier in question passed. Plus drug free, and had qualified with their personal weapon.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2018 9:11 AM

2018-11-24T09:11:55-05:00

There is no way to improve guard or reserve standards while not on drill status or on orders. There should be given a free gym membership to all guard & reservists no matter what of a gym of their choosing. Which might help out a bit.
In order to re-enlist for 1 year you do not need a passing pt score. For anything longer you do. So a guardsman or reservist could do their full 20years without passing a pt test passed their initial contract. Now for schools you have to pass pt tests so unless they are a career specialist then they have to work on pt in some form or fashion on their own.
Just like marksmanship. We only get 2-4 days a year to zero & qualify. No other range time except for crew serve weapons. Then we have all these mandatory classes. Then we have pha. Then we have this or that or other stuff that must be accomplished all while having time to conduct unit training. This new acft will take most of these unit multiple drills to complete cause of time & required certified graders. So there is less training now replaced by pt testing. Now they add more drill days to the schedule & now it's impacting work. Which pisses off employers. Cause by law it's 1 weekend a month (sat & sun) & 2 weeks during the summer. Not 3-4 day weekends (Thurs-sun) and full month summer AT. The bad part about the AT, is that Ppl have licenses that are required by state or federal that in order to remain active they have to physically work 1 day out of 30. So now AT is affecting solider civilian job licenses. Which can cost several hundred to get reactive or have to be certified.

So in summary the military has caused its own problem blem in pt for guard & reservists by failing to give them the support they need. If a solider just wants his 20 but doesn't care to go to a school's or promoted then there isn't anything the army can do honestly. Cause as long as they pass everything besides pt after their initial contract they can extend every year for a year til they retire. There's no incentive to want them to push hard except you won't get promoted or go to schools if you don't. I'm at 14 years I can't get a bonus so all I have is schools & promotions for incentives. Some days I don't even consider them those. Army truly doesn't know what retain means. Means giving an incentive or bonus or added feature to an employee to keep their loyalty to that organization. That's why so many good ncos get out after a few contracts or after their 1st. They don't see the point anymore.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-11-24T11:53:44-05:00

I am 57yo E8 in Alabama ANG. I am also a PT Leader and scored a 98/100 on my last PT test in October. I had younger Airmen trying to keep up with me on the run...
It is a matter of willpower and desire for the younger generation of they expect to advance in grade, or remain in uniform. We have separated people for failing PT, and promotions are not automatic.

Response by SSG Andrew Michael made Nov 24 at 2018 12:58 PM

2018-11-24T12:58:12-05:00

Ok, self motivation is a big thing, but another thing to look at here is some of these soldiers may work hard manual labor jobs or long hours everyday and don't feel like being a gym bunny in the evenings! Think about that, the ones behind the desk or in charge of the platoon! Another thing is the guard has problems with numbers, so they will never get rid of to many people to keep strength totals!

Response by MSG Ed Luhrman made Nov 24 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-11-24T14:21:00-05:00

National Guard needs numbers, numbers drive whether Guard Bureau gets funding for the states, numbers influence how a unit will perform, mos training hurts, morale suffers. It would be as simple to perform or get put out. I’ve seen the how can that person still be in the Guard? Recruiting and Deployments along with soft basic training and AIT rules today’s kids want to be treated as adults when they still act like 5 yr olds. I’m in favor of you have to do four years active before you can be in the Guard, so you get a taste of not living at home, having to depend upon yourself and team, you cannot go out and party and expect to perform the next day, team cohesion and earn and build respect.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2018 7:00 PM

2018-11-24T19:00:29-05:00

Have Been Active Duty 12years 9 as an NCO and 8 NG. What many of you do not understand is. NG does not work like AD. Although the Majority of NCOs I knew in the NG were Prior Active Duty Soldier, Many were never AD NCOs. Many of the Officers in NG will not allow the SMs to be chaptered due to PT, they would loose more than they can Recruit. It is a systematic Problem that would have to be fixed from the TOP down. As an NCO if grading PT test as I did in Active Duty, Many including Senior NCOs and Officers would never pass with half push-ups!! Lmao. Yes I get it, Have been an NCO both active and NG. There is no comparisson. However the NG has its purpose and it isn't all geared to title 10. If they do not deploy and take up allot of the workload, then only the Active Duty soldier would have to do it all. Having done Both as an Infantry NCO. I can tip my hat to many of our Citizen Soldiers. They have Careers other than Mil. And still go out and preform their duties. Both AD Soldiers as well as NG and reserve have their bad apples. Overall, can't really Knock these guys leaving their careers that pay much more than a soldiers pay to do their Part. I saw NG NCOs getting Double Pay from their Civilian Jobs along with their AD pay while Deployed, Manning OPs and conducting daily patrols in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Makes one think it is all a Re-enlistment Ploy by AD to retain Soldiers when a NG Soldier is task with some of the Same Task and making twice the Pay down Range. If I only Knew what I know first hand now, Maybe I would have served 4 AD and the Rest in the NG. Lmao

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Nov 24 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-11-24T20:39:36-05:00

Do your job. Get rid of the ones that can't don't or won't meet or attempt to meet the standards. Your good troops will appreciate it.

Response by COL Brian Shea made Nov 24 at 2018 10:07 PM

2018-11-24T22:07:55-05:00

Saw a couple of the answers that ranged from "Counsel and Separate" for consecutive failures, to buying gym memberships for NG and USAR Soldiers. If it's an issue now when the APFT events are so easy to train for, just wait a few years until the new improved (not) APFT with all of the requisite equipment comes online to the reserve component.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2018 10:14 PM

2018-11-24T22:14:06-05:00

First off, commanders are afraid to PT during drill status for fear a soldier gets hurt. The paperwork is assigned. Annual training they might do some but less likely unless the are doing the APFT. Soldiers working 10 or 12 hour days sure dont want to do PT when they get home. PT is important but on the case of Guard and Reserve they should focus more on MOS skills.

Response by MSgt Albert Jeffrey made Nov 24 at 2018 10:30 PM

2018-11-24T22:30:59-05:00

It will NEVeR happen. The guard has been and has remained a good old boy system. The problem stems from high in the chain. Dump all or majority of so called leadership and have an active duty Officers and Senior NCO’s provide oversite on huard bases. Worse of all; once a guard member retires from the gravy train, most return only to return to work as civilian employees both on the guard base or Guard Burue. The same idiots continue on amd on with the same mentality and close circle of worthless crooks. The few that are decent or good, move to reserve units and deploy more often than the guard fraternity order. All this talks for decades and you see the same Pilsbery lard asses as usual in the guard. What is mental os the fact that they could possibly pass a PT test. We all know there has to be a non compliance and wrongfully passing both enlisted and Officers in majority of the Guard bases. The end talking point, holding accountability to those Giard bases failing to hold standards especially corruption in actuality providing to correct PT scores.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2018 12:45 AM

2018-11-25T00:45:13-05:00

Don't pay Soldiers for unsatisfactory performance. Give a APFT every Month until they pass. No pass no Cash. See ya chubby wubbie.

Response by CPO Lenny Schoonie made Nov 25 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-11-25T10:17:02-05:00

As a retired service member that had to pass a minimum physical fitness test twice annually, that was not too much to ask. Pride and commitment to bettering ones self esteem along with striving to set the best example for the country you serve should be a constant motivator. Failure is just that, being a part of something just long enough to say I deserve my benefits now, should not be an option. If minimum standards can not be maintained personally, removal from service is the only option. Need more numbers, bring back the draft and put young men and women in a place of responsibility, something greatly missing from our youth today.

Response by SFC John Mikelson made Nov 25 at 2018 11:16 AM

2018-11-25T11:16:08-05:00

Are fitness centers in armories/reserve training centers available to service members who are not unit members but live locally or are we shooting ourselves in the foit?

Response by SFC Jeff Hutchinson made Nov 25 at 2018 1:04 PM

2018-11-25T13:04:34-05:00

I was an AGR recruiter for my last 11 years. The world of recruiting and retention is a complex balancing act. The guiding principle is “Numbers run the train”. The more you recruit the more you can separate the wheat from the chaff. Recruiting new soldiers is incredibly difficult as is retaining quality soldiers. In some states where strength is low it dang near takes an act of Congress to chapter a soldier out. I don’t believe that’s the answer.
The soldier pass an APFT in order to complete IADT so they have demonstrated the ability. I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a “part time” soldier or “weekend warrior”. The Guard makes up the bulk of the Army’s total combat force. Guard and Reserve units frequently deploy along side AD units. Because of this reality, soldiers must be physically fit. NCO’s who identify soldiers who are unable to pass an APFT have two responsibilities. First, follow all regulations in AR 7-22. Second, train. I don’t know about you but if I know there’s a real chance my unit will deploy as an NCO I’m going to make sure my soldiers come home safe because they will make sure I come home safe. If that takes getting together outside of drill weekends then so be it. Show your soldier you are invested in them and they will put forth maximum effort. Remember your soldiers are a direct reflection of you. Leadership is a privilege not a right and it comes with a lot of responsibility.

Response by PO2 Ron Gunsolus made Nov 26 at 2018 6:43 PM

2018-11-26T18:43:14-05:00

How about giving them an OTH if they don't get their fat arses in gear... they signed up and agreed to the standards... enforce them...

Response by SGT Chris Padgett made Nov 27 at 2018 11:45 PM

2018-11-27T23:45:05-05:00

Let's see, when SMA Tilley decided we needed to start wearing stupid berets, the guard and reserve weren't issued those for at least a year or two later. But we still got the ass chewings when we went to AT by self-righteous AD members wanting to do their on the spot corrections.
Our equipment would sit broken and deadlined, we went without because we were low priority. I left AD and went into the Reserves because I felt I should. I had the same attitude as most of you, at first. Then it hit me, the Army wasn't paying my mortgage, bills, or feeding me or my family. I was working 50/60 hours a week and PT was really low on my list of priorities. My job paid more than LTC pay at the time. I was good at my job, and I can tell you, the Army needed me a hell of a lot more than I needed it. My threshold for B/S was pretty low. So, if the Army wants to start treating NG and Reserves like AD, then they need to start paying them the same, give them the same health and education benefits, maintain equipment at the same level, ensure they have the same gear without waiting for a year, and give them the same retirement package. You can't have an Army of One and "those guys over there" at the same time. Since there is a separate standard for those things, then there certainly should be a separate standard for Ht&Wt, APFT, and pretty much everything else.
Keep harassing NG and Reserve troops and they're going to "U" out. I've seen it happen for that very reason. I completed my contract, but I wasn't sticking around to be hassled.
If you're active duty, don't you dare reply unless you've been in the NG or Reserve system, because you can't know how it is to be "those guys over there".
But you guys do what you want, cause I ain't invited to the party anymore.

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Nov 28 at 2018 7:05 AM

2018-11-28T07:05:14-05:00

You sure can force them to do PT - separate them if they don't pass the test. This is a volunteer Army and they signed a contract - the standards are clear.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2018 11:32 AM

2018-11-28T11:32:22-05:00

This post struck a chord with me. As a reservist, I see first-hand the clear lack of any fitness training outside of drill for a lot of soldiers. I take pride in my fitness, and I do my absolute best to maintain a high level of fitness, but I often see my soldiers as well as my higher-ups fail to meet standards. To answer the question, "How can we fix it?" Really, there is one obvious answer: Motivation.

Physical training an integral part of the Army. Although there are thousands of MOSs on either end of the spectrum, the first and foremost aspect is to be a soldier, and fitness is an essential part of that. Reserve/NG soldiers aren't forced to do mandatory PT outside of drill, so when they’re home and without that push to do PT, more often than not they completely avoid it. I can definitely relate on those cold, dark mornings when I know I need to go for my run, but my bed is just so warm and welcoming. Although myself, and I'm sure many others, share the drive to actually overcome that and just workout, some soldiers lack that motivation to get up and do it.

To “fix” that, well, it really comes down to self-motivation and just training yourself to get up and workout, but it can also be access to gyms. I’ve paid for my gym membership since before I joined the military, and yeah, it’s an extra expense, but when your job is to maintain a level of fitness, you should make a point to keep the standard. I know that someone will point out that as a reserve/NG member, jobs keep them from working out. Again, speaking for myself, I went to school full-time, worked three jobs, and I still found time to work out. Even if it’s just a quick 15-minute Tabata or run, it’s better than nothing at all. Most of the time I do a workout with no equipment at all, rather I stick to calisthenics and bodyweight workouts. And the best part is that the Army has done an excellent job providing bodyweight movements—all of which could be performed even in a small studio apartment. I’m not saying one needs a gym membership to stay in shape, just going outside and doing the push-ups, sit-ups, and run would even suffice (I won’t bring up the ACFT, as that’s another can of worms), but having the option of a gym might give reserve/NG soldiers more motivation to stay in shape, especially when their civilian jobs are odd hours.

I've never been active duty, other than separate missions, deployments, and annual training, but I have noticed that active duty has that motivation that reservists/NG soldiers lack, not just because it’s mandatory, but also because group PT really helps in building motivation. Now, I can only speak for myself, but once that lifestyle of integrating PT into every morning—or evening—schedule becomes habitual, even personal motivation grows and oftentimes you want to continue to better yourself.

Active duty has access to free gyms (outside of morning PT), simply for being a SM, which, in my opinion, is completely fair. They signed to line to serve as an active duty soldier and are guaranteed various means and accesses. However, even though reservists/NG members are also given that free access, usually it’s only when they’re on active duty orders.

This would be my suggestion: Any reserve/NG member who lives within a certain number of miles to an active duty fitness facility should be given free access with the same benefits as active duty. Those who don’t should at least be given the option to have a gym membership so that they have the same access of both outdoor PT and gym facilities as active duty, especially for E1-E4 reserve/NG who usually can’t afford any extra expenses with their meager drill pay and other source of income. Since the Army has always emphasized fitness standards, all soldiers, whether active or not, should be given the same access to maintaining that standard. But in all honesty, it really starts with the individual. If they don't take advantage of what's being freely given, then that's when we question if the military is right for them.

Response by SPC Jordan Sutich made Nov 28 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-11-28T17:26:59-05:00

Offer incentives just like the medical field. Fit soldiers not only perform to higher standard, but are mentally more fit.

Response by SFC Jeff Kinsley made Dec 10 at 2018 7:25 PM

2018-12-10T19:25:02-05:00

We all know that or at least I was told that PT is the individuals responsibility. They are given guidance and should be able to follow it. Yes its hard to enforce the standard while they are not at drill or annual training but here is what we did when i was the readiness nco. We made the Soldiers take a APFT after returning from AIT and if they scored high and not just barley passing they were good for three months and took a diagnostic one and if they scored way lower or failed they would take one every month as long as it was over 30 days in between until they passed and it also showed them to be responsible to stay ready.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2018 6:31 AM

2018-12-11T06:31:27-05:00

Well the state like to keep their numbers up that’s the biggest opposition I see but it hurt the soldier all together because they are flagged I had my pv1 actual cry he friends were getting promoted and he couldn’t but it seem as though he never passed a pt test even in basic

Response by SFC Keith Kingsley made Dec 11 at 2018 6:27 PM

2018-12-11T18:27:19-05:00

Kick them out if they can not get their lazy asses up like active duty soldiers do to make sure they can pass the Standards they signed up for.

Response by CPL Sarah Verity made Dec 24 at 2018 10:24 AM

2018-12-24T10:24:11-05:00

The best way to increase or numbers is to focus on rest, not excess. Your soldiers won't test well with painful knees and shin splints. Running more just leads to more injuries. My friend was in the marines and thought army pt was ridiculous by making soldiers run everyday. USMC pt consisted of team sports like basketball to allow endurance, stamina and conditioning to take place as well as increase morale. Running everyday with only hurt your soldiers. You shouldn't run more than once or twice a week. The other days should consist of interchangeable activities like meeting at the gym or doing sit ups and crunches one to one with their buddy. I was forced to run 3-5 miles everyday. We all became sick and injured, nothing more. Work smarter like the marines, not harder like the army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2018 10:07 PM

2018-12-25T22:07:31-05:00

Ok, let's start with...Why do we see so many civilians, Bankers, Real Estate Brokers, Insurance Agents, Business Owners, Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, REGULAR CIVILIANS, who care more about their physical fitness than our joe's? They do ToughMudders, Marathons, Triathlons and such things working-out harder than an Active Duty or Reserve Soldier. One whose way of life and surviving the Battle Field is by being physically fit? Isn't that enough incentive? Coming back alive from the battlefield? It is a true embarrassment that we as NCOs are asking those type of questions when the answer should be, simply LEAD BY EXAMPLE. If you don't know how. Read the NCO creed then LIVE it, BREATH it, BE IT. But for now, memorize it. Keeping in mind on this copy, if the BOLD LETTERS if is what you DON'T see in the leadership around you in respect to the APFT, let it be you the good example But the answer is in the BOLD LETTERS. Let memorize it so we can help other leaders on that question>
NO ONE IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, A LEADER OF SOLDIERS. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army." I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers, and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service, and my country; regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

COMPETENCE IS MY WATCH-WORD. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind: ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE MISSION AND THE WELFARE OF THE SOLDIERS. I WILL STRIVE TO REMAIN TECHNICALLY AND TACTICALLY PROFICIENT. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer, I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. ALL SOLDIERS ARE ENTITLED TO OUTSTANDING LEADERSHIP; I WILL PROVIDE THAT LEADERSHIP. I know my Soldiers, and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers, and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I WILL EARN THEIR RESPECT AND CONFIDENCE AS WELL AS THAT OF MY SOLDIERS. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!

Response by SSG Dr. John Bell, PhD. made Jan 6 at 2019 10:18 PM

2019-01-06T22:18:26-05:00

As a retiree and veteran of 3 services; my comment is start enforcing Weight regulations and uniform regulations. I live near NAS Fort Worth Carswell. Everyday I see grossly overweight Army and Air Force members. This should not be happening. I left active duty in 1985. The Army during the 80's had a program that if you did not meet standards you were denied promotion or a chance to reenlist. Start doing your job.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2019 2:50 PM

2019-01-13T14:50:47-05:00

I wrote to the National Guard Magazine in 1998 and said the same thing. It was never responded to...they did post it on the mailbag...I argued that if a Soldier passes at 60% he should get $600.00, 70% - $700.00, and so on...AGR, military technicians, and USAR Full timers get at least 4 hours per week paid to do PT...As a Infantry Company and Battalion Commander in the Guard I never discharged or punished a Soldier for not passing a PT test. The new APFT won't last. It is too time consuming for the Guard and Reserve to do on a weekend and it costs too much to field. I doubt that each state will field a APFT Kit for every line company and detachment at $6,000 per kit (rumor of cost). Because the new APFT is so complex it will take up way too much time on a drill weekend, it will have to be done during annual training and screw the AT timeline up. Signed Retired 34 years.

Response by TSgt John LaBelle made Jan 16 at 2019 9:42 AM

2019-01-16T09:42:29-05:00

Retired now, but have always thought that there should be some type of reimbursement for gym use for reserve/guard. The base I drilled at was 84 miles away, had a gym. To go there is unrealistic. There is a gym at the state national guard HQ near by but they do not allow reservists to use it, guard only. If you are going to have a fitness program and not follow through with access to equipment makes no sense. Then to say well you have job and can afford to pay a membership is disingenuous. It's an added expense. I compare it to a certification, if you make it mandatory than you need to reimburse for the maintenance.

Response by SSG Vincent Wilson made Jan 16 at 2019 11:48 PM

2019-01-16T23:48:40-05:00

Simple. Motivate them. If they fail the APFT, they don't get paid.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jan 20 at 2019 8:26 AM

2019-01-20T08:26:37-05:00

I was never in the NG or Reserves, but if the NG members live in a local area (meaning near each other) then they should form a group that meets 3x a week to exercise. This is voluntarily done, so if someone does not show up, no issues. Some people might call this Teamwork, help each other out.

Response by SFC William Allen made Jan 21 at 2019 8:11 PM

2019-01-21T20:11:59-05:00

AS a 28 year National Guard NCO there is no way to "fix" this. The soldier has to do it themselves if they want to advance in rank. Every time I took an NCO development course at our state military academy, I took a PT test. I ALWAYS passed. I wanted to get promoted.

Response by 1LT Tom Welch made Jan 31 at 2019 1:08 PM

2019-01-31T13:08:04-05:00

set the standard and hold the personnel accountable, how hard is that? Youre not telling them that they must do anything, except meet the standard set by the Army, test them at every drill. it isn't that hard. They do as they will when not at drill, set a good example for your men, they'll get the picture. If you don't set an example for them, they get that picture, too.

Response by Maj Eric Gumz made Feb 11 at 2019 8:24 AM

2019-02-11T08:24:43-05:00

I would start by NJP for those who fail to meet the standards. Overweight? That's easy it's called ADSEP (ADMINISTRATIVE SEPERATION) . Can't pass fitness standards? ADSEP ... If being a soldier means something to you, you will get in shape in your "off time"...if not then the army is just not for you I guess. Just because you are a reservist does not mean you get a pass.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2020 11:27 PM

2020-09-14T23:27:27-04:00

This is a really good topic. I think we should bring it back.

Response by SGT Patrick Healy made Jul 6 at 2021 11:36 AM

2021-07-06T11:36:53-04:00

Make threats real.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Sep 29 at 2023 1:07 AM

2023-09-29T01:07:34-04:00

What I don't understand is, after all of the money the military has put into training these SM's, why don't they do more to keep them. At least the good ones. Especially Reserve units, who have enough trouble keeping their numbers up.

I've always heard of remedial PT courses, you can send a soldier to. Yet, I never knew anyone who went and never saw a command interested in their soldier enough to send them to one.

They are willing to send someone with anger and violence issues to Anger Management.
They are willing to send somone with emotional. psychological issues to counseling.
They are willing to send someone who failed a drug test to ADAPC (Is it still called that?).
Yet, other than threats and counseling statements, I have never seen much effort given to PT issues other than basic remedial PT with little commitment. It's even worse in Reserve/Guard.
I was in several reserve and guard units, and only saw one with a gym, and most SM's with a job, couldn't get there during a regular work day.

At some point, the soldier stops caring because the unit doesn't.
Getting sent to a PT course might just be the motivator to get that PT test passed. Hell, offer promotion points (like they do for those listed above).
Get them evaluated, to see if there is a phsical problem.

One thing is for sure, They might be willing to go once, but the possibility of being sent back will motivate them to try even harder.