National Guard/Reserve requiring NON-ANNUAL TRAINING on Mon-Thu? Do you think this is fair?

SGT Jacob Yuhas — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:05:02 -0400

Recently an odd drill date had just come about where we have a MUTA 8 during one of the weeks in October.(NOT ANNUAL TRAINING) (NOT PRE-DEPLOYMENT TRAINING) My unit does not have a deployment coming up.

Its a Monday-Thursday drill scheduled for next month and I had purposely selected my college classes to not be on the weekends because just about every National Guard drills are on the weekends.

I don't mean to be so rebellious but NG/reserve soldiers have jobs and some soldiers go to college and some soldiers do both. It's just a huge set back and extremely aggravating for college students who are in the guard as well.

I went ahead and requested for alternative dates but those kinds of requests usually get turned down unless its a wedding or funeral.

Any thoughts about this?

EDIT:

I just wanted to state I'm not complaining. I know what I signed up for and I have to comply to the rules and regulations that were stated to me multiple times when I signed two years ago. I just wanted to see opinions of other people and perhaps if anyone else has encountered a drill date that was a inconvenience to them.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 5 at 2014 10:18 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:18:14 -0400

I've never heard of this type of situation. Your job/school comes first unless its AT or a specific training package that has to be done in total as a unit. But even then it should be broken up over one or more MUTA4/5 weekends. We did back to back drill weekends on occasion in the same month but unless it was AT we never did anything more than a MUTA5. Find out more about the training and what you can miss. On the other hand see what school work you can make up if you have to miss Thr & Fri. This seems to be an odd situation so get all the facts then use your CofC to help you with this.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:44 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:44:44 -0400

I hate to be that guy but I will. When you joined the guard you made a commitment to serve. You didn't make one just to serve on the weekend or two weeks in the summer. I have had to make many sacrifices while in the guard. Being away for a deployment for over 14 months when we are supposed to only do 12 is one of them. For this I have no sympathy. I have been gone for the most part of the past 12 months only to find that I'm deploying. I pretty much ruined my hopes with my civilian job but that is part of it. If you don't want the guard to interfere with your personal life I recommend getting out after your first contract.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 11:00 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 23:00:56 -0400

MUTA 8? Is your unit making up a MUTA or two for the year?

I'm in college and work also, but, well, duty calls, ya know?

But a MUTA 8???? I've been in the Guard for ten years and have never encountered this...

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 2:52 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 02:52:32 -0400

Are they trying to make up for loss in funding that many units are experiencing this month?

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Sep 6 at 2014 10:22 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 10:22:22 -0400

Deployments and exercises are one thing, but there's no reason to make life more difficult than it needs to be. If a National Guard unit doesn't take its members civilian life into consideration, it will lose some of its best potential members.

I don't like seeing "you signed up, so suck it up" types of responses. That immediately and unfairly points the finger at the service member who is merely bringing up the question of whether something the military is doing is really in its best interest. We should look at these situations fairly to see whether something really make sense.

Below is an article about the Alaska National Guard chief who was forced to resign after an investigation found that "...Guard members lacked trust and confidence in their leaders." The military is not a democracy, but leaders do need to earn the trust and confidence of their subordinates. Telling them to just "suck it up" is not always the best way to do that.

Alaska National Guard chief ousted in wake of scathing report

The Alaska National Guard’s commander was forced to resign after a six-month federal investigation found that some members of the Guard had been ostracized and abused after reporting sexual assaults and that Guard members lacked trust and confidence in their leaders.

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Sep 6 at 2014 12:11 PM

CPO Jon Campbell — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:11:46 -0400

I fought this same thing in the Coast Guard Reserve. Some active duty LT who didn't want to come in on the weekend would decide that reservists just needed to come in during the week to handle admin issues. I told the LT that in order for one of my people to come in during the week, they would need to have orders cut so they could give them to their civilian boss.
The reserve has always revolved around the model of 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year. It's what is advertised and it is what people are told, but there isn't a law, as far as I could find, that protects reservists from being told that they have to drill during the week.
The effect that I saw in the microcosm of the CG, is that we lost civilian journymen and gray collar reservists and we retained stay at home moms, unemployed people, and people who were retired from their civilian jobs. There is nothing wrong with any of these people, but one of the strengths of a reserve force is in leveraging the skills and qualifications that reservists bring from the civilian world. If it becomes too hard to balance, the employed, skilled workers leave and the overall effect is a dilution of the reserve force as a whole.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 12:22 PM

LtCol Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:22:01 -0400

I would never schedule a Mon-Thurs for the reasons you mention, but in my reserve unit, a Force Recon outfit, there is no way we can attempt to maintain the capabilities expected of us by training on only Saturday and Sunday. We typically drill Wed-Sun every couple of months. The benefit is that we can actually conduct solid field ops and build capabilities and then you get a couple months with no drill.

That being said, I fully understand Marines have civilian jobs and school, so we make every effort to accommodate their schedules. Being a reserve Recon Marine is a big commitment and you have to love being miserable for more than one weekend a month, so if a Marine can only do Sat-Sun, then he is encouraged to find a unit with a more accommodating schedule. Unfortunately we do lose some good Marines sometimes, but I can't train a Force Recon unit with just one Sat-Sun a month. Since half my unit is not local to the training center, most of them actually prefer doing longer drills with less frequency since it reduces personal travel costs.

If your command is denying rescheduling requests because of school, it sounds like they need to reevaluate their policy and recognize that the Guard isn't going to pay the bills but a solid education and civilian career will. Ignoring the civilian needs of your people will only reduce retention, morale, and unit effectiveness.

Response by SGT Jacob Yuhas made Sep 6 at 2014 1:25 PM

SGT Jacob Yuhas — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 13:25:15 -0400

- Just wanted to thank everyone for adding in on the discussion giving their opinions and thoughts.

Just wanted to make a couple things clear though. This is the first time that this has happened to my unit while I've been here, being in HHC we are in the same building as our BC/BN SGM and just about everyone has a close connection with everyone.

Our command is pretty good with scheduling and making good dates that they know wont interfere with soldier's normal lives too much.

Just wanted to state I have nothing against my command. I just don't want to be seen as that guy that complains about his CoC. I wanted to get this discussion to community interest and discussion because I know I'm not the only one that has probably experienced this.

Thank you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 2:05 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:05:38 -0400

When I worked at Duke Field (a Reserve unit on Eglin AFB proper that flew Talons for AFSOC) as a contractor, they started four-day drills (Friday through Monday) every now and then to ensure that all of the ancillary training and computer-based training was caught up. That way, more time could be devoted on traditional drill weekends to real mission training.

It was a good way to get back to door-kicking and trigger-pulling. But Monday though Friday? C'mon...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 5:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 17:07:03 -0400

That is a weird situation. In my experience, I have seen my command allow make up drills/ AT for students using tuition assistance and other soldiers working out of state. The trick is giving as much time for the command as possible. If you are getting state funds for college, and fail anything from a result of drill, the budget managers tend to get pissed. If you cannot work out an arrangement with your professors, take or send a copy of you syllabi to your section chief and have them forward it up the chain.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 1:03 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 13:03:56 -0400

Interesting question. Actually this MUTA 8 is scheduled in October deliberately. The training was scheduled on those dates, and approved on by the Battalion Commander based on his training vision for the year, due to range availability. With budget constraints units travel less frequently to other states so all units within the state are forced to utilize and fight for the same training areas.

MUTA 8's aren't that uncommon honestly, I have one scheduled for my Company next week. Of course we're flying to Ethan Allen Vermont to do multiple ranges including demo, M-26 modular shotgun through M-2. Dynamic training make longer training periods far more worth it in my opinion. Based on my Company strength less than 1% have requested to get out of next week's training.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 2:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:39:21 -0500

We did a MUTA-10 last year...the good thing is we didn't have to drill (and all the travel involved) for a couple months because of it. No, its not fair, especially without at least 90 days advance notice but it is authorized, it happens, and usually its for a good reason - so good training. Wouldn't be cool to be a yearly thing though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2021 2:49 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:49:45 -0400

Depending on what the training is you coukd just ask to SUTA it. Run if thru the chain. I was always flexiable with my soldiers when we had some weird drill schedule changes. Ifs its an LFX or weapons qual that may be more difficult. Personally I HATE having drill on the weekends buts thats just me I would rather do a week strait every QTR. Every unit will be different though.