Navy vet behind flag baby photo says she'd do it again

2015-03-13T13:37:35-04:00

From: Navy Times

A Navy veteran turned professional photographer said she is proud of a controversial photo in which a newborn is cradled in a flag held by his active-duty father, and would take the photo again if asked.

"Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that this would happen from a simple family photo shoot," Vanessa Hicks told Navy Times in a March 12 phone interview. "But I would be proud to take another photo like that."

Hicks, 29, initially took a lot of heat online after posting her photo of 8-day old Landon Clevenger, held in the American flag by his Navy father, a photo that within days was featured on Fox News and ABC's Good Morning America.

Though this particular concept is not new, a Facebook community business page titled "You Call Yourself A Photographer?" accompanied a post of the image with pointed criticism regarding its use of the flag.

"The flag is not a prop. I repeat: The flag is not a prop," the group posted. "To use the American flag in such a way is disrespectful, rude, tacky, disgusting and against the U.S. Flag Code." The group also took a shot at Clevenger's dad.

But many more rallied to the sailor and photographer's defense.

The sailor pictured, Rodney Clevenger, was contacted by Navy Times, but sent word through the Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek-Fort Story, Virginia, public affairs office that he did not wish to comment. He posted the shot as his Facebook profile picture on March 11.

The U.S. Flag Code dictates that "[n]o disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America." Among the specific examples offered, the flag should never:

Touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water or merchandise.
Be used as apparel, bedding or drapery.
Be fastened, displayed, used or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled or damaged in any way.
Be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying or delivering anything.
Criticism of the photo was soon met by messages of support. Many called the photo everything from "beautiful" and "patriotic," and described the baby as "wrapped in freedom." Others pointed out holes in the application of Flag Code, which also forbids the flag be printed on paper napkins, boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discarded — items that are very common on national holidays and military events. The code also forbids the flag to be used on advertisements or athletic uniforms.

"I took a stand by not taking the picture down as this group wanted me to do because I did not feel I was disrespecting our flag in any way," Hicks said. "Service members, veterans and their families saw the photo, saw the intent behind, and respect it. They have shown overwhelming support. And I think the group that first threatened me now realize they messed with the wrong group."

Hicks said she had received more than 1,100 similar Facebook messages, phone calls and emails within 48 hours of the photo going viral. She has since been inundated with interview requests from national and international news agencies. And business is picking up: Some in the Virginia Beach, Virginia, area have booked the photographer as a show of support. When anyone does so, Hicks said she will donate 15 percent of the proceeds to the USO.

The photographer is a veteran and married to a sailor. She joined the Navy in 2003 at the age of 17, and served as a quartermaster aboard the carrier Enterprise during its support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

"Some of the best times of my life were on that ship," she said. "I grew up on that ship. I am the person I am today because of my shipmates and mentors."

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/03/13/photographer-baby-flag-navy-support/70237378/

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 1:39 PM

2015-03-13T13:39:41-04:00

Seeing a baby wrapped/draped in the American flag is American, it represents protection of our children by the principles of freedom and liberty.

I don't see the issue here.

Response by CAPT Gary Foster made Mar 13 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-03-13T14:41:46-04:00

I don't have an issue with this picture. It represents our country and the freedom we have to 1) fight to keep our country free; 2) actually have a child without aborting him or her; 3) use our Flag in its purest form of pride. Contrast that with a university in California that wanted to ban flying or displaying Old Glory because it might offend someone; or the trampling of our flag in Ferguson, MO; or the lack of our flag in the recent Selma anniversary. Thank God that some photographers are out there using the flag to promote the goodness that is still left in this country. Good job Hicks. Keep your chin up!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 3:05 PM

2015-03-13T15:05:15-04:00

It's a beautiful photo, but I tend to adhere to the stricter guidance of flag etiquette, out of respect for the flag and my brothers and sisters at arms, especially those who have given their lives defending it.

There are a number of other options for those who want to incorporate American-flag like imagery into their family photos, without actually using a flag. One option is to use a woven wrap baby carrier that is designed to be similar to the flag, without being a flag, Girasol Diamonds and Stripes, or Girasol Catfish. http://slingofest.com/wrapPage?modelId=8750

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-03-13T17:47:07-04:00

The Picture represents the things we all fight for, Family, Country, Duty. I think it is beautiful and makes a bold statement of his priorities in life. It is a hell of a lot better than what Lil Wayne did.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 6:06 PM

2015-03-13T18:06:58-04:00

Good grief...! Photos taken with a Country's flag are patriotic. We have people burning the flag, schools not saying the Pledge of Allegiance, and schools/universities talking about removing the flag of the United States to be fair to everyone..? Those offended by these pictures should focus on that. Nice pictures!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-03-13T18:47:04-04:00

A little crude but hey, that's the SSG Old School way.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Mar 13 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-03-13T19:13:42-04:00

Many times people forget, by the book, is only a guild line for those that dont have common sense. The picture does not disrespect the flag the country nor the uniform. It cradles the republic's future.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-03-13T19:34:46-04:00

The baby is adorable and the proud father and country. What can be wrong with that?

Response by 1SG David Niles made Mar 13 at 2015 8:03 PM

2015-03-13T20:03:43-04:00

This is no different then an Olympic athlete draping themselves in the flag all sweaty after they won the gold medal. I take that back this is more appropriate because this is a new US citizen swaddled in the symbol of our great nation. The problem with things like this is people are two fracken sensitive for the wrong reason. Rant almost over

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Mar 13 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-03-13T20:34:26-04:00

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not desecration. It is unusual, perhaps even unorthodox, but disrespectful? I don't see that. Photography by its very nature can be, and sometimes is, edgy.

Symbolically, I think the shooter is saying: this country is the mother of its children and they're held by not just their parents, but this nation's military as well. How cool is that?

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 13 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-03-13T20:42:46-04:00

Well, if she now knows that the pictures are not in accordance with appropriate flag displays and she still does it she deserves whatever she gets.

Many of you complain about slipping standards on the site all of the time. This is one more slipping standard and everyone seems to slouch right past it. It is either in alignment with the existing code or it is not (hint: it is not) and now that she possesses the knowledge she should align her behavior to show appropriate reverence. Is it really that difficult to follow?

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-03-13T21:57:07-04:00

Funeral detail Marine here. I'm going with "disrespectful" for the same reason that it annoys me when various models use the flag as a cover or draping, or some idiot wears the colors as a cape. The flag is not a prop. Using it as such is disrespectful to the colors, and the men and women I've laid to rest under those colors. Constantly having the need to slap the flag on everything, or wear the colors in the form of bikinis, head wraps and what the fuck ever else there is out there strikes me as wal-mart patriotism.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-03-14T14:58:41-04:00

Probably upset the UC Irvine kids because the flag stands for violeve so the kid is now tainted by "colonialism and imperialism..."

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Mar 14 at 2015 4:27 PM

2015-03-14T16:27:22-04:00

I am a big fan of "artistic license". The symbolism is inspiring. We honor the Spirit of America and Freedom through our art.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Mar 14 at 2015 5:10 PM

2015-03-14T17:10:13-04:00

I live in military base housing and I see flag code issues ALL the time (i.e., flags being left out 24/7 without a light). We allow the flag to be burned as freedom of expression (which I think should be a crime), but in this instance, I think we need to look at what this picture is saying without using words. I think it is a very powerful picture, esp. in a time when American pride is so low. They did not disrespect the flag, they used it to create a photo. The coolest thing, in my opinion, about this picture is that it could mean something different to everyone who looks at it. It is like art, speaking to people differently. But this is just my own opinion regarding this photograph.

Response by PO3 Robert LaRose made Mar 15 at 2015 1:06 AM

2015-03-15T01:06:23-04:00

This photo just screams America. I see no problem with it, especially with the way we see our flag desecrated these days.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Mar 15 at 2015 7:49 PM

2015-03-15T19:49:45-04:00

I will support her every step of the way. The symbolism in this picture is exactly, in my eyes, why we serve

Response by PO1 Joseph Feldhaus made Mar 16 at 2015 12:34 AM

2015-03-16T00:34:27-04:00

The flange code is a recommendation for how to honor and properly handle the flag. It is unenforceable as a law, because to do so would violate freedom of expression. This picture may have violated the letter of the flag code, but it does so with the best of intentions. Those intentions do honor the flag. As for those of you who call this "Wal-Mart Patriotism," at least it is patriotism. Your time would be better spent if it was focused on those legitimately trying to defame the flag, along with the spirit and country for which it stands.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-03-16T17:54:05-04:00

This is a beautiful picture. Maybe we need to change the flag code a little. I see half naked ladies at the beach in flag bikinis. I see flags printed in napkins, plates, cups, etc. I see flags worn all kinds of wrong by people we hold as patriotic during sporting events. As long as I don't see someone burn, drag, dedicate, urinate and disrespect my flag, I don't think ints much of an issue. Tell this group to go after the protestors in Missouri that were caught burning the flag after a thug got shot by a cop. This picture is beautiful.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 17 at 2015 3:16 AM

2015-05-17T03:16:50-04:00

But we can have a nation stomping the American flag and dragging it through the street? I think it is a beautiful image and I stand behind her 100%! It is precious and I wish I would have done the same with my babies.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 5:57 AM

2015-05-17T05:57:42-04:00

People want to get angry about a service member proudly displaying their nations flag, but are okay with others "excercising their first amendment rights" by trampling the flag? Okay

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-05-17T07:53:44-04:00

In no way does the word disrespectful come to mind when looking at this photograph.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-05-17T07:56:25-04:00

So everyone will get upset about this but not that "stomp the flag" challenge? Priorities, America, priorities.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 17 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-05-17T08:30:49-04:00

My thoughts when I see this is it depicts what we all fight for. The essence of protection we will be there all who serve to protect all citizens. This we will defend and support.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 9:06 AM

2015-05-17T09:06:08-04:00

What I see is that the baby will grow up to support the flag as the flag is supporting her.

Response by PO2 Johnathan Kerns made May 17 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-05-17T10:39:27-04:00

I dont have a problem with it. Great pic.

Response by PO2 Mike Barnett made May 17 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-05-17T19:20:23-04:00

I think the child is swaddled in the blanket of the very freedom his father and many others provide. I, as a veteran, feel no disrespect at all and would be proud to display it!!!

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made May 25 at 2015 9:39 PM

2015-05-25T21:39:56-04:00

Her photo of 8-day old Landon is poetic and full of positive patriotic symbolism. It is what photography is all about sometimes.

Response by SPC Don Stringer made May 30 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-05-30T08:06:21-04:00

I think that is one of the most patriotic images ever photographed. Since the intent was clearly not disrespect, but of love and patriotism, it should not be interpreted in such a way.
People who are offended should focus their anger on more serious affronts to Old Glory. Someone stomped on it on a college campus recently, a couple hundred were stolen from a veteran's cemetery before Memorial Day, and at the last Democratic Party Convention, those small hand sized flags on a stick, were seen laying all over the floor, and discarded by the thousands. A Boy Scout troop went in an saved as many as they could afterward. I personally will never forgot that clear display of disloyalty and hatred for our country's symbol, nor forgive.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 4:38 PM

2015-06-25T16:38:14-04:00

I don't see anything wrong with even though it is against the code. It's not like it is being used as a backpack to hold supplies. It's a newborn "wrapped in freedom!" America welcoming her newest patriot!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 28 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-06-28T18:53:33-04:00

Awesomeness. If it is constitutional to stomp it, how could this possibly be considered offensive?

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Jun 29 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-06-29T14:02:02-04:00

What an amazing and loving picture.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jul 27 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-07-27T13:19:09-04:00

Whats wrong with the photo???? what bleeding heart liberal has cried over this.??? Maybe these jackass's should start going after public places for also going against the "Conduct"...Be fastened, displayed, used or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled or damaged in any way....how many flags in front of not only Government but local public buildings are weather torn from the daily rigors placed on them? The Wall Mart by me has never taken their flag down and it is in a very bad shape, should Wally World be sued and cast out of America? What about Sams club? they both belong to the same person and since he has no regards for the American flag he must be a communist !!!! Cmon people!!! get real... we have far more important issues that should be on out top 10 list...here are just a few of mine : Getting rid of this jackass muslim loving moron in the white house... Removing all the illegal scum that is ruining our economical system and almost single handedly supplying America with drugs....Removing all corrupt government employees ( we may have anyone left afterwords).... Bringing back American Industry ( I am tired of seeing labels that state a product was "Assembled" in the US.... Closing our borders.... And I believe the very top should be making sure that no "AMERICAN" goes hungry or has to live in a card board box with no medical or hope. We have all fought to some degree or another for this country only to see it being destroyed and no one is bold enough to stand and make a difference....other than idiots who will profess that what we have now is gravy . Either they are too stupid to see all thats going on around them or they have been bought in one way or another.

Response by SSgt Bob Mobbs made Aug 26 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-08-26T23:04:18-04:00

I personally find this photo inspiring. With all the other things (including Congress saying burning the flag is a protected right), wrapping your child in the protection of the American Flag is awesome.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-08-26T23:08:22-04:00

It represents the future of our nation. I see no disrespect in the photo

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Aug 28 at 2015 7:00 AM

2015-08-28T07:00:20-04:00

The photo seems to signify patriotism --under the protection of the Nation and secure within the RED,WHITE and BLUE!!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-08-28T21:48:53-04:00

why didn't i think of this?

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 29 at 2015 8:24 PM

2015-08-29T20:24:29-04:00

This is only an issue because of all the 15 minutes of fame social media outrage that happens with almost anything posted.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Dec 12 at 2017 3:38 AM

2017-12-12T03:38:56-05:00

The page “You call yourself a photographer?” Is a hate monger ing trash every picture they see page. They say they are a critique site, but I have never seen an actual, honest critique on there, all they do is bash everyone’s pictures.
The most commen comments I would see on there go something like this “... I wouldn’t have taken that picture, I would have taken a picture of something else.”, or this one “...don’t they know that vignettes went out of style in the 90’s!”
After several “photography critiquers said I was whining about their comments, I actually posted the definition of the word critique on the site and told them when someone actually wrote a critique, I would thank them. They kicked me off the site and blocked me after that.