NCO Retention Point

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 12:41:25 -0500

A hot topic us IET soldiers here from our NCO is SSG and above. They say quote a staggering number of SSGs and above stay at there rank/do not try to advance and just "ride it out". My question is this:

should NCOs have to show clear progress in there career/job/progress and leadership in all aspects and maybe raise the retention points as motivation along with reform the promotion system? Now, if a SSG shows indisputably and irrefutable evidence he or she is advancing and working hard they should be able to stay in that rank past the RCP. But then again they've have earned the rank to retire. Is there something the army could do to help weed out those nco's that get to comfortable and lazy with the rank? Just a curious topic

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 1:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:24:02 -0500

Haha good question battle, and when you get the time I would try to edit your question a little so people can better understand what you are trying to articulate to the community.

We have some "Old Timers" around our unit that many soldiers lower enlisted and senior enlisted alike know of and talk about. The thing is these SSGs & SFCs don't REALLY have to show much initiative once they make their ranks besides pleasing their superiors enough to let them stay in their positions and not give them bad reviews on their NCOERs. The Retention control points for SSGs is 20 years or 26 if promotable and for SFC is 26 years or 29 if promotable. Besides keeping a clean record during military service and getting positive NCOERs there isn't too much else a SSG or SFC has to do to 'Earn their keep".

Now if they are trying to advance and make rank of course they have to hold certain positions such as platoon sergeant or NCOIC of a section, complete WLC, ALC, etc... But to be honest with you from our own sergeant's mouths around here if an NCO has been in long enough and knows the people around him, they are more than able to stick around and ride it out...

That being said, I myself as a young and ambitious soldier feel like everyone for as long as your in the Army should have to stay competitive and not become complacent and I believe certain parameters should definitely be set to stop people from "Riding it out".

Also there are things that cause good soldiers to become the ride it out types. A lot of soldiers end up "broken" in the Army and have to turn to support MOS's and that can definitely ruin your motivation but I dont think the younger generation should have to suffer because of that at the same time because these guys that are not trying to advance are a big reason some of our MOS's are over staffed and our promotion points are at 500-798 points.

I think that the promotion system should some what be reformed and they should implement certain mile markers during a person's stay at those certain ranks of NCO. Mile markers such as schools, certain positions that they have to fill within a given number of years in that position and such things like that.

Hope I brought something to the table for this topic battle have a good one and good luck to you boys at Gordon. - SPC Gamble

Response by SPC Robert Patrick made Feb 7 at 2014 1:59 PM

SPC Robert Patrick — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:59:08 -0500

Ah Good old Gordon. PV2 Gist, while you make valid points that I agree with. One of the biggest things I would suggest is for you to stay competetive like SPC Gamble said. If you seperate yourself from your peers go to college go volunteer for military schools and work on becoming both tactically and technically proficient you should be fine regardless of the Promotion points. Also you are going to come across those E-5's and E-6's throughout our career (I'm sorry if I offend any NCO's) not so much at the SFC Level. Regardless of your personal opinions of those individuals be sure to treat them with the respect that they deserve. And as my battle Above stated there are good NCO's who get stuck at a rank after getting injured and medboards can take quiet a while to complete.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Feb 7 at 2014 4:54 PM

1SG Eric Rice — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:54:08 -0500

Private Gist, I commend you for starting the coversation and addressing your concerns as a soldier. It is imperative that you as an individual do what you can to constantly improve by continuing military and civilian education, physical fitness, basic soldier skills, and many other things. Regarding service members that have obtained the rank and hanging out at E-6/SSG there can be many reasons for them not progressing. As the number of soldiers continue to decline service members will be heavily scrutinzed. There are only so many positions in the Army for each rank in each MOS. So if an NCO does not get promoted it does not mean that they did something wrong or they are not a good NCO. The person at the next rank may not have got promoted or retired in order to make a position available to fill. As far as points go the promotion system at the senior levels do not use the points system. It is based off of individual accomplishments indicated on their NCOER (Noncommisioned Officer Evaluation Report) which they recieve annually. NCOs must also show improvement just as much as soldiers need to as well. Here is some advice for you as a young soldier to be successfull. Find a good mentor and learn everything that you can from them. They do not have to be in your MOS but someone that you can look to for guidance and emulate. For starters you can log onto AKO and find the Army Career Tracker. You can ask someone to be your mentor and they can give you guidance of things to accomplish in order for you to be successfull. If you cannot find someone you can look me up on there. I would be happy to assist you in your journey as a soldier. Regards, SFC Rice

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Feb 8 at 2014 7:58 AM

SFC Stephen P. — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 07:58:42 -0500

"Is there something the army could do to help weed out those nco's that get to comfortable and lazy with the rank?"

Bars to reenlistment fill that role.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 10:21 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 10:21:38 -0500

It's called the Qualitative Service Program. It applies to SSGs and above with a certain Time In Service and Time In Grade. The TIS & TIG combination basically targets NCOs who are below the power-curve for promotion goals. It is different from the Qualitative Management Program in that it doesn't go after people who have fallen afoul of Army regulations as much as it goes after underperformers.

It is currently a temporary program and I hope they make it permanent. There is some basic information here: http://www.ncosupport.com/military-news/qmp.html and I recommend joining S1NET in the Army Professional Forums at https://www.milsuite.mil to further research the subject as HRC's website is not very user friendly.

On a personal note: I think the real problem with stagnation is that you aren't eligible for retirement until you hit 20 years TIS. There is plenty of people that should leave at 18, 15, 12, or even 10 years and who refuse to do so because they won't get jack for the time they've already served.

Army Enlisted Qualitative Service Program QSP and QMP

Effective April 1, 2012 the Army will employ the enlisted Qualitative Service Program (QSP) to identify NCOs for involuntary early separation from active duty. The QSP consists of a series of centrali...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 3:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:37:43 -0500

I haven't heard this in years....like over a decade. NCO's in the past 12-13 years could not have been riding anything out, unless they have been allowed to hide under a rock during these last 13 years of combat operations. But NCOs have been pushed way past their limits, done way more than has been asked of them and we're still strong and stomping on sidewalks. Now the pre-9/11 Army is where I heard and saw this go on.

Anyways, being your just coming in (I think), you might want to wait a couple of years before asking this question and observe the Army yourself, rather than base it off a couple of random NCOs convo at Ft Gordon.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 1:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 13:41:39 -0400

This can be difficult to address. As stated by others there can be reasons why person does not advance. It comes down to what type of unit you are in, your leadership, your personal life situation, and other things that are going on. The purpose of the RCP is to allow others to advance and to remove those Who are stationary. It's difficult because there are some jobs that make it really difficult to be promoted. Working in the legal field as a 27 Delta I made SSG with 782 points. It took a while but I was dedicated. At the time and infantry staff Sgt. could make it with 450 points. There were other jobs that were at 798 points. As a result some people we're behind due to the amount of points they have to accumulate regardless of performance. Basically a person has to plan out their career and move accordingly. Even though I had to earn 782 points, I took college and everything else I resulted in it. Some may have to re-class, some
May go Ocs or warrant. I the end, a soldier is RCP'd because they was unable to adjust according to the needs of the army. Poor evaluations can also serve a part.