NCO’s exempt themselves from PT formation. How do I address this? Is there a regulation I can turn too?

2018-02-16T01:32:33-05:00

I’m in a very different army unit. It’s a rotational unit so no holidays, weekends, or even stable hours. My leadership that does not work in the field like E-5 and below do has decided on our refitts that we are to do mass PT formation, yet they aren’t attending the formation. Beyond leading from the front, what regulation states that NCO’s (E-6/E-7) aren’t to give an order that they themselves aren’t going to follow or even attend?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 1:46 AM

2018-02-16T01:46:05-05:00

It seems like you're trying to place yourself in a very difficult situation. As an NCO we should always do what we expect our subordinates to do. If your leaders are not showing up to formation or conducting PT, I would recommend that you tactfully bring it up privately. If you feel uncomfortable doing this I would suggest that you continue to go to formation and make yourself a better soldier by conducting PT . Not all leaders are great leaders, but also soldiers have the potential to be great leaders. Always remember and Live by the NCO Creed, even if you were not an NCO. BLUF, do not let toxic leadership prevent you from being an outstanding soldier.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 16 at 2018 12:07 PM

2018-02-16T12:07:56-05:00

There are several places you can look but remember not everything is cut and dry and you will not find a black and white book answer to every situation you encounter, in many instances the Army is intentionally vague because that's what Commanders, PLs and NCOs are for. In my opinion Unless there is a conflicting training event (range, external mission support) the remaining NCOs need to be at PT.

As for "what regulation states that NCO’s (E-6/E-7) aren’t to give an order that they themselves aren’t going to follow" think of this scenario... PVT Jones, flank that machine gun, PFC smith draw fire for Jones. Clearly the NCO is going to do something with the remaining troops, however Smith and Jones have just received an order that the NCO isn't going to be involved in. that's why you won't find a cut and dry answer to the question you ask.

Here are some references that you could apply as why Leaders should be doing what they ask others and especially PT.
- There's the NCO Creed, ("no one is more professional than I", about covers it)
- AR 600-20 Army Command Policy chapter (4) is pretty close.
-AR 350-1 Training and Leader Development, Chapter (1) para 1-19 and 1-23 and then buried in Appendix G-9.
Again all these are vague because big Army realizes that situations arise that are best handled at the local level.
Remember you have an NCO support channel and a chain of command, ask your SQD LDR if there's some reason the NCOs aren't at PT and then start moving up the food chain from there.

Response by SSG Guy Gould made Feb 16 at 2018 5:11 PM

2018-02-16T17:11:21-05:00

There isn't a lot that you can do other than tactfully speak your mind about the issue to someone that can do something about it. Im guessing that, since it is an accepted practice, it is supported by the chain of command. You are not responsible for what you're NCOs do or don't do. I would suggest that you find your left and right markers and stay in your lane. I have been both the NCO that was and wasn't required to attend formal PT. There may be reasons unknown to you concerning why they aren't attending PT that are none of your business. My main concern for you is that you are a Specialist that doesn't have this figured out yet.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-03-06T17:33:58-05:00

Do what's told to you PVT and shut the fuck up

Response by PO2 Frank Ushler made Mar 29 at 2020 2:30 PM

2020-03-29T14:30:33-04:00

That's Bullshit, A good leader will be at the front of PT and lead the way. That's why we see so many Fat out of shape E 6 and above Personal. Maybe its retirement time . This new generation requires a quick mind and body to keep up. The responcibility of Rank requires Fitness of mind and body and attitude . They should get bad quarterly reports on their records.Shape up or get out.