NCOER question - handling a superbly physically fit NCO with a profile

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:45:05 -0500

EDIT: Everyone, I KNOW what goes in the section of the APFT. I know what it says and I know that there are other things that pertain to that section besides the APFT. However, in MY experiences, people don't give a crap about anything that isn't APFT. Non-APFT stuff in that block is usually fluff, whether that's the way it's supposed to be or not. What I am looking for are SAMPLE BULLETS of an excellence that isn't based off an APFT score.

I am about to get my first profile really and certainly my first perm profile. At least until I receive my disc surgery in my back, I won't be able to run or do high impact things, or do situps.

However, I think it's unfair that people say "well 270+ = excellence". Because while it hurts like crazy on my back I can smoke most people that score that high.

I squat and deadlift about 405lbs, and bench about 315lbs. I am about 15% under body fat and you can see an eight pack of abs, and they're not skinny abs.

I say all that not to brag or seem full of myself but rather to ask - I know I am in better shape and clearly more physically fit than a ton of people I know that score 90 in each event. Yet I have no chance at ever having an excellence again?

What bullets have you seen to quantify an excellence when someone is on profile?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 22 at 2014 4:56 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:56:56 -0500

There's nothing in writing that says that a 270 or above means an excellence in Physical Fitness/Military Bearing. That just means you can get a PT patch. Your rating is completely up to the standards established by your rater.

Some people come into the Army able to score 270 just because of how they are made. If after years of training that's all they score, I don't believe that's an excellence. They haven't shown any improvement over their baseline. I think it comes down to having a discussion with your rater about what an excellence really means to him for you, based off of your circumstances.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 5:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 17:52:44 -0500

First, sorry to hear that you are getting a profile especially
for your back. I have had a few profiles
in my short 11 years due to knee surgery broken bones etc. I was still able to
maintain a 300+ after coming off of my profile because I wanted it of
course. Anyway you can still receive an
excellence on your NCOER because it has to do with your appearance as well. You
may not achieve you APFT badge that I do not think anyone even gives out
anyway, but as long as you can present yourself you can still receive a
excellence.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 6:15 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:15:54 -0500

The only regulatory guidance is that "received physical excellence badge" can serve as the only justification necessary for an excellent block check in bearing and appearance IAW DA PAM 623-3.<br><br>Look up the FY 13 SFC DA Board AAR.  You will find a recommendation that all APFT scores should be entered in the bullet comments because of the assumption that the absence of a score means a low score.  In turn, the AAR also states that Soldiers on a permanent profile should have an adjusted APFT score cited.  My suggestion for the adjustment would be AR 600-8-19, the section about APFT score promotion points states how to average scores.  Simple summary:  average PU and SU for an alternate aerobic score, give 60 points for a profiled PU or SU event. 

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 6:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:31:59 -0500

I had a SNCO that rode a 30 Mile bike ride for an event and he put an excellent for that in his eval.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 11:54 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 23:54:41 -0500

SFC Jones, the section in the NCOER you are referring to is an evaluation of a Soldier's physical fitness and military bearing. In evaluating your physical fitness, there are many ways to measure your progress in order to substantiate an "Excellent" rating. Achieving the APFT Excellence Badge is one of them, improving your score by more than say 30 points, completing an event that demonstrated physical fitness (such as a tough mudder or ironman or 12 mile ruck in a remarkable timeframe). Your rater just has to be creative in describing how you demonstrated superior physical fitness and be able to quantify it for the board.

Additionally, military bearing goes a long way towards the overall rating of this section. Do you serve in position that required constant communication/interaction with joint services / higher echelons / immense stress? How did you conduct yourself?

I don't doubt you are a superior physical specimen, but you are not just a piece of meat to the Army and your rater needs to be able to portray all your assets and abilities to the board so they can have that Total Soldier Concept when determining your potential for promotion and service at the next rank.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 6:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 06:41:44 -0400

I had an NCO that lost a 30 LBS in a year, it was outlined on his 2166-8-1 to lose 20 LBS and that will constitute an excellence. He lost 30, so i wrote it up like that. Checked excellence and it flew. He got picked up on the next board. So I believe that vast improvement despite hardships constitutes excellence.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 6:57 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 06:57:00 -0400

o Scored 100% on the push-up event and had the fastest walk time out of the company; profile in now way hinders work performance

Something to that effect. Max out what you can do on the PT test and be better than every other person on a profile, when it comes to the walk or whatever cardio event you have to do.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made May 23 at 2014 11:26 AM

SSG Genaro Negrete — Fri, 23 May 2014 11:26:40 -0400

Outside of APFT score, showing that you are still striving to maintain and improve physical fitness outside of the duty day is a good way to achieve that excellence bullet in the face of a permanent profile.

Participation and excellence in events that you can do (per your profile) set you apart from the crowd.

o completed multiple bicycle races in rated period; consistently placed in the top 10 at each event.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2014 12:34 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:34:04 -0400

I couldn't help but comment on yours....You sound like a very strong and mentally tough person (sounds like a bullet comment) but also to understand that your discomfort could be related to the fact that you have obviously pushed yourself to the extremes of fitness. The military's most fit Soldiers are ones that can maintain their "type" of fitness away from the Gym and hardcore weights. You may find that with an open mind that you are capable of achieving a different great level of fitness without being "huge." I don't know of anyone that is carrying a 405 pound ruck. Think about what you need to be able to do for the military and your Soldiers. PT scores don't reflect fitness...It reflects your mastery of three tasks.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 2 at 2014 9:24 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:24:37 -0400

-Soldier consistently strives for greater physical fitness both on and off duty.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 20 at 2016 4:37 PM

SSG Jeremy Kohlwes — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:37:03 -0400

I feel your pain. My lower leg was crushed from falling rubble during my first deployment which took years to heal and left me on profile for quite a while. I had people flat out tell me I could not be an effective leader if I "couldn't lead my soldiers on a PT run." Fortunately that just drove me to prove them wrong. I may not have been able to run well but I could still walk. And I could ruck too (less impact on the ankle than running). I was able to ruck circles around even the biggest PT studs in the company. I even managed to talk my command into letting me workout in the gym during PT so I would be able to use the elliptical machine. I ended up losing 20lbs in a month. Personally, I think being able to excel physically despite being on profile says a lot about a person.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Feb 23 at 2018 3:21 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:21:59 -0500

o Exceeded standards by achieving a time of 28:10 on the walk event. His drive to excellence has set a record for the BN in this event and is a goal for other profiled Soldiers to reach for.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 7 at 2019 8:28 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Tue, 07 May 2019 20:28:25 -0400

This soldier despite his profile scores 270. As a warrant and nco I maxed 29/30. Was sick on the one I missed. Plus most non pilot warrants get profiles and do not do pt. Look at the cid cw3 who died at the age of 52 at west point.