Need advice on whether I should stay in or get out?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:23:24 -0500

I have a wife and 6 kids and I'm a SPC in Active Army. I don't know whether or not I should try the soldier for life program or reenlist and stay in the army. I've heard good things like you can make anywhere from 70k-90k a year doing various jobs outside of the military. But on the flip side of the coin I don't want to get out and not be able to provide for my family. HELP!

Response by SSG Daniel Miller made Nov 1 at 2015 4:28 PM

SSG Daniel Miller — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:28:18 -0500

With 6 kids and a wife, plus the limited training and development from the Army, you'd be better off staying in for now. Unless you had extremely valuable professional attributes before the Army, you will not get out and make more than about 30k per year. This is just a generalization, of course, but I don't think the livelihood of your family is worth the risk. Stay in, try to take advantage of tuition assistance (get a bachelor's degree), and volunteer for every school you can get your unit to send you to. All of this will help pad your resume for when you do get out.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 4:32 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:32:56 -0500

6 kids? It's better to just stay in and keep rolling in that sweet security blanket of BAH until you have a degree or a highly specific field of expertise that translates into a well paid civi job.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Nov 1 at 2015 4:44 PM

MSgt John Carroll — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:44:22 -0500

I assure you that unless you are doing contract work in the desert, you are probably not going to pull that type of coin without a 4 year degree.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 4:49 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:49:24 -0500

Only you can decide. But, an observation from an old man. Salaries you hear about are rarely what is truly available unless you have special qualifications. I would not get out based on such salaries unless I had personal knowledge of the situation and knew I had a shot at that, Also the high salaries one hears about are usually in an area where the cost of living is also very high.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 4:51 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:51:35 -0500

Stay. Stay. Stay.

Response by LCpl Don Rowley made Nov 1 at 2015 4:59 PM

LCpl Don Rowley — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:59:01 -0500

I got out of the Corps in 1979 and tried to go back in 2 years later. I had the same 3 kids as whn I got out but they said I would lose a rank and there is no way I could support them on that pay. In other word I couldn't go back. If you think you are a lifer then be one! You can always change your mind in 2 to 4 years.

Response by MSgt Daniel Attilio made Nov 1 at 2015 5:07 PM

MSgt Daniel Attilio — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:07:45 -0500

Persevere and take advantage of what is available through the military. Civilian employers will not offer the same medical, housing or educational benefits that are at your finger tips now, nor will you be in a community (coworkers, supervisors, programs) that offers assistance in manners you probably don't recognize at the moment. Use the tuition assistance program and other training opportunities that arise until you build a resume' competitive enough to increase your potential for success when you decide to leave. Get some Aces in your pocket before you make a gamble with your future.

Response by SSG Skylur Britz made Nov 1 at 2015 6:32 PM

SSG Skylur Britz — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:32:59 -0500

I would say stay in just for the benefits. If you don't necessarily like your MOS you could reclassify to something that has a better job opportunity outside the military. You definitely need to talk to your re-enlistment NCO and your wife.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 1 at 2015 6:37 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:37:38 -0500

So most said stay. You need to be realistic on the TOTAL VALUE piece. That's where you price everything. On the outside you get salary with similar deductions plus a few more. You'll pay state disability. You'll pay for a big share of medical insurance. Unless you exclusively buy from COSTCO, groceries are typically more on the outside. You'll have to pay the full ride on whatever you're doing on housing.

Military gets taxed on base pay. You don't get taxed on BAH. Your TSP isn't taxed going in but on the outside, good luck finding anybody that matches the first 5% except as a civil service Fed.

So run the numbers to see how "bad" but more likely near to "good" you are. The $70-90K salary is typical for graduate engineers who are possibly registered but is typical of a project engineer or team lead. In other words, take a look at the positions and see what the prerequisites are.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Nov 1 at 2015 6:44 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:44:05 -0500

Very few people make 70-90 thousand a year unless you have a professional degree and even then it is not likey to start. You will most likely make less money and pay more taxes if you get out plus you lose a lot of benefits. Think hard about it before you do it.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Nov 1 at 2015 7:26 PM

SFC Christopher Perry — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:26:54 -0500

Only you can make that big a decision about your future. Are those kind of salaries possible outside the military? Yes, they are indeed. However, from what I can tell the number of folks struggling to find work far outweigh those that walked into their "dream job". Now that I have been out for a few months I realize how lucky I was to start my new position right away upon getting out. I can tell you that without the degree it simply would not have happened. Lastly, don't just look at the salary when making the decision. If you have yet to play this game on the civilian side of the house, the additional costs might just shock you. Even if you find a job right away that has decent medical coverage, what it actually costs you can be a rude awakening. I think we forget how big a deal the benefits we enjoy while in uniform really are. Do the math and be brutally honest with yourself. Don't listen to the advise of anyone who has not actually don't what you are contemplating.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 8:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 20:04:52 -0500

If you were single I would say go ahead and try your chances. With a wife and 6 kids, you have to stay in until you can get a degree, if you don't have one already. It is very tough to make the kind of money you need in the civilian world without a ton of experience and a degree. Do a pro and con list, but be very brutally honest with yourself.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Nov 1 at 2015 9:19 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 21:19:48 -0500

Sooo... all the smart people here are saying stay... and I agree with them. You are in a position where you have a lot of opportunities at your fingertips and the civilian world is still pretty cold. Here's some benefits to think about:
1. Tricare (x7). There is no better health plan out in the civilian world. Every shot, every boo-boo, every sickness, every surgery (if needed) covered.
2. Steady Pay. On time, every time. And even when it MAY not be because of budget issues, many banks (USAA) will cover your pay until you get it.
3. Predictable raises. Every year. Every two years. Whenever you get promoted. Even when the country was in a recession and people were getting laid off left and right, the military got a raise.
4. Education. Not just the GI Bill, but Tuition Assistance - you can easily get a 4 year degree using TA and have ALL of your GI Bill left over. Every ounce of education you can get is $ later in life.
5. Training - The Army offers countless certifications in numerous fields which cost thousands to get on the outside. Take advantage of every one you can get.
6. If you do good and like it, you can make it a career, maybe go to the Dark Side (Commissioned Officer) and fix all the broken things you saw as a Private!

70-90k SOUNDS like a lot, but with 6 kids, it's really not that much.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 made Nov 1 at 2015 9:42 PM

CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 21:42:13 -0500

Are you a SPC or a PFC as your profile suggests? Discuss all of these comments and birth control with your wife before you do anything rash.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 10:02 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 22:02:24 -0500

You've heard the expression that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence? Well, it's not true. The grass is greener where you water it the most. Think about that as you ask yourself whether or not you want to stay in. Take this to the Bank: the outside job world is a zoo of Biblical proportions. Ask your family what they are prepared to give up or do without, but make the final choice WITH them.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2015 10:24 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 22:24:31 -0500

Only you and your family can decide whether to stay in or get out. What are your career goals? decide what job you would like and then look at the required skills and education needed for that job. With a wife and six kids, you and your wife must both be exhausted. Are you making time for your educational needs? I agree with the other responses, that you will not make 70 - 90K a year outside the military. I would strongly consider staying in, but again, this is you and your wife's decision to make.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 1 at 2015 11:17 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 23:17:28 -0500

Only thing I can say is you must do was correct for your family. I was at a crossroads many years ago my career and had to make the decision and I had to get out in order to make the money that was necessary to support my growing family.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Nov 2 at 2015 1:40 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 01:40:16 -0500

You should absolutely stay in

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 6:48 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 06:48:32 -0500

That solely depends upon the skills you've acquired over your very short Army career. What is your current MOS?

Response by SGT David T. made Nov 2 at 2015 8:31 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:31:09 -0500

The civilian world is hard there is no doubt about it. However millions of Americans get by everyday. I will level with you, you are not going to walk into an entry level position at 70k-90k a year realistically 30K-40K assuming that you have a 4 year degree. Now if you are skilled labor like electrician, carpenter and so on you have a great chance of walking in the door at more pay. I was a Sergeant when I got out, had a lot of great experiences but no education. I couldn't find a job because I was overqualified for the crappy jobs and underqualified for anything good with nothing in between. I went to college, earned my Bachelor's degree and got a government job 2 months after graduation making 30K a year. 5 years later, I am 6 pay grades higher than I started making 62K a year. It's not a ton of money but I am comfortable on it. So it all comes down to what you and your spouse decide to do. I wont sugar coat the civilian world as being all rainbows and unicorns because it is not. However, I am much happier now than I was as a Soldier.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 8:49 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:49:23 -0500

Don't get out unless you are for sure you have a job. You have a family that has to be taken care of, and you can't play around with that. The Army is a great place to serve. I stayed in 30yrs, and my family loved it. My children still talk about all the different places they were afforded to see and live because of me and my Army career.

There is nothing like waking up and knowing that no matter how hard times may get my retirement check is going to be deposited into my account. I put in the years, and the benefit is well worth it.

Response by SPC Jesse Montemayor made Nov 2 at 2015 9:40 AM

SPC Jesse Montemayor — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 09:40:25 -0500

Until you can Guarantee a good job that you can provide you need to stay right where you are! If your happy doing what your doing and the family is happy then why disturb that unless you have something guaranteed to not disturb your family life! Good luck on your decision and choose wisely.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 11:12 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:12:13 -0500

I can't imagine having a family without the virtually guaranteed income, retirement, and healthcare being a retiree provides. I watch too many of my high school peers struggling mightily in their 40s and 50s, and having no outlook that includes ever being able to slow down.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Nov 2 at 2015 11:20 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:20:43 -0500

If you do not have a exit

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Nov 2 at 2015 2:05 PM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:05:37 -0500

Read first lines of SSG Miller. Nail on the head, do you have a bachelor's degree? Do you have the money to pay for insurance for your family? You know you're going to get paid on the 1st and 15th. Even with the always reported squabbles on the Hill.
Where are you trying to go? What is the economic situation there? Many points to ponder.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 2:11 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:11:38 -0500

I would look at the educational benefits that the Army offers you. Also, remember that the Army is a team organization. If you choose to stay in, don't do it just for the monetary reasons. You are valued at what you and your skills bring to the organization. There are many oppportunities that the Army has to offer. TA, GI Bill, warrant officer, OCS, green to gold. All things that make you more marketable for the Army as well as the civilian sector. Bottom line, what makes you and your family most happy.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Nov 2 at 2015 2:36 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:36:46 -0500

Dude you got 6 kids! You are going to get ate alive in Medical insurance and rent. Stay in!

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Nov 2 at 2015 2:56 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:56:43 -0500

If you are in, I would STRONGLY recommend staying in...until such time as you have very specific and definite plans that will allow you to maintain or improve your families well being (financial, insurance, etc). "Maybe" jobs do not pay bills, and until you get income in writing, it is still a maybe..... If you are going to separate to go to school, know what the implications to not only you, but your family will be in regards to housing, insurance, income, etc. I will not tell you NOT to, if you can justify the end point...but know what will be the impact on the near side.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Nov 2 at 2015 3:14 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:14:57 -0500

If there are doubt, consider getting out.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Nov 2 at 2015 4:14 PM

SN Greg Wright — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:14:33 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I think in your position, it would be the biggest mistake in your life to get out now. It's near 100% that you simply cannot match the salary, benefits and MEDICAL that you're getting now, and with six kids...it'd be insane to try.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 4:52 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:52:34 -0500

Unless you already have something lined up, I would recommend staying in. Get your school done. Then consider getting out if you still want to do so.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Nov 2 at 2015 7:59 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:59:35 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member look for work before you make a decision, even if it means extending in the Army for a year. Getting out without a job lined up is the worst thing you can do. Also, remember that if you're entitled to any VA disability compensation, it can take up to two years to get it processed, so you can't count on those funds either...

Also, talk to your wife about it extensively, and make sure that she is on board with whatever decision you make. Your home life affects your work life, and vice versa...

Response by MAJ Glenn Bergeron made Nov 2 at 2015 8:03 PM

MAJ Glenn Bergeron — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:03:03 -0500

No brain-er IMO to stay in! The gov-ie/contractor gigs aren't what they used to be during Iraq/Afg surges, but even then you had to have a very specialized technical skill (IT types / Intel types) PLUS experience. Lots of folks spoke of the educational benefits - USE THEM ! My reserve component GI Bill helped me earn my BA degree and my AD GI Bill will soon fund my graduate degree! And you have TA on top of that! Regarding degrees, don't choose underwater basket weaving or something that won't provide an income to sustain your family if you decide to get out. In your current situation, I vote Stay In (and get of a STRICT budget!). Best of luck

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 8:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:20:23 -0500

1) I don't know how you do it man I have three woah!! Your a tough guy
2) you already have your family in your mind so with that said stay for this reason health,dental,mental, and emergency coverage. Alone if you do 20 years you have tricare forever and depentants.. Of course regions and beginning fees are there but your not there yet.
3) Army programs are all around you. If the urge of walking in their offices and asking. Look into deferment policy, hardship reassignment, apply for additional aid or support etc.
4) education down the road you stay in eventually you time can be passed on to your spouse or 1-6 minions. Plus you as well this education/college is the same off post or on.. I tend to believe post life is much safer than off post schools.. Just a food of thought.
5) if you do leave line your self up with certifications,and licenses attainable and used for civilian world but this takes studying and exams, VA covers fees for example like a A+ cert..etc
6) va home loan put your time in have a good credit get a house for your family 1-18 years safe haven plus your bah will take you long ways than renting out
7) army is a family of its kinda despite how currently things are going whom do you get more support of besides family you fellow comrades or ?
8) man good luck think about your 6 plus 1 before you man

Response by SSG Brian Lovins made Nov 2 at 2015 10:31 PM

SSG Brian Lovins — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 22:31:08 -0500

Sorry this is going to be long winded, I left active duty as an E-5 in 1998 after my second enlistment, dumbest thing I ever did if I could find a way to travel back I would have stayed in. I was a school trained mechanic before joining thanks to Vocational training in high school, I was a mechanic on active duty, I am still a mechanic. I make close to 6 figures but I have been doing it since 98 on the outside, I work 55 to 70 hours a week. When I retired from the Guard I lost my tricare reserve and now I pay 150 a pay check for medical care for my family and I. This is a huge corporation so the insurance is one of the best out there. This year my deductible BEFORE the insurance covers anything is 1500 per person THEN I have to pay 20% of everything so a single doctors visit with prescriptions may potentially cost me an entire 2 week pay check due to health issues my wife has. My son broke his arm last year the day after thanksgiving, the emergency room visit cost me out of my pocket $1500 that was with insurance that had a $100 copay. You may hear about the good pay but remember there is NO housing allowance, no separate rations, and no free health care, also if by some chance you get hurt on the job depending on your profession you can't come back until you are 100% cleared and they are not paying you when your not working, sure they have short and long term disability which pays 60% of your salary, try living on 60 percent of your pay. Depending on the economy my job could be gone tomorrow, it has happened to me before. I have been offered promotions before but considering I have seen numerous branch managers, numerous service managers and numerous assistant branch managers get let go, I have no desire to move up anymore, the best chance of staying employed is staying a worker bee. The civilian world is all about numbers and percentages and MONEY, when they are not were they should be no matter the reasoning someone has to go.

As for Government jobs, I have applied for 15 years for various gov jobs and never heard anything, I have had some friends that got lucky after years and years of trying but they make less than me hourly and with a family I can not afford a pay cut, which while I can live on my pay at 40 hours a week my play money is my overtime plus I have 3 older kids and they get even more expensive as they get older. I wish I had someone talk real sense into me when I was a young NCO and tell me what it was really like on the outside. I do not know of anyone that has benefits anywhere close to what the military provides beleive me I am looking right now due to insurance costs alone. Buckle down, do what you need to advance, stay away from the E-4 mafia and stand out among your peers as a leader and good things will come, they did for me.

Response by CMDCM Richard Moon made Nov 3 at 2015 4:57 PM

CMDCM Richard Moon — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:57:45 -0500

You don't stay in or get out for the money, mistake number one. You stay in because you love what you do, the rest is part of the journey. And you give it your all. You get out because you don't love what you're doing, see no future in it and make what you can of your life. You can survive either way. I would never presume to tell you which way to go as I don't know you. don't know what you're doing and how well you are doing them. But if money is the deciding factor, your priorities are wrong. And yes, I'm well aware that you say you have 7 dependents. I do know that the ability to make good money is entirely dependent on your skill set and demand for them in the market. You should check to see how you fit into that as part of your decision making process. No vote from me on this, but I wish you luck (and a lot of skull sweat!) on whatver it is you choose to do going forward.

Response by SGT Kevin Sewell made Nov 3 at 2015 8:04 PM

SGT Kevin Sewell — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:04:07 -0500

My advice would be to stay in. Think about it. You have a steady job, a guaranteed paycheck every 2 weeks, benefits for you, your wife and your children, and you get to go to school for free. Me personally, I wouldnt want to take the risk of going out to the civilian world and not be able to find a job or be able to provide for my family unless i knew I was ready. Try to knock out some school, study for the board, get promoted, and etc. When it comes down to it the choice is yours. I hope you make the right decision for you and your family. God Bless.

Response by Capt Terry Fillmore made Nov 3 at 2015 8:19 PM

Capt Terry Fillmore — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:19:02 -0500

My Bachelor's was Industrial Relations/Human Resource Management. When I got out and tried to find a job in my field, it didn't pan out. I had 3 children. I had some ups and downs. The bank foreclosed on my mortgage, and I lost my home. I rented in 5 different neighborhoods for the next few years. I was helped out by a couple of Marines - one let me stay in his house for free until he could sell it, and the other was in real estate and gave me a deal on a home he had built in the 70's. I worked delivering newspapers and substitute teaching until I "bit the bullet" and got a Masters Degree in Teaching, while working full-time as a janitor. This was all after being a commissioned officer in the Marines. The other posters are correct. Life after the military is not forgiving. I got out in '88, but was not back on my feet until '98, so think hard and make sure you and your wife talk it out. My wife was quite upset for years afterward.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Nov 3 at 2015 8:26 PM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:26:44 -0500

SIX children? You better offer staying in and making it a career. You chance of making 70k let alone 50k diminished without any education such as degree or certification in an industry. Even with a degree, your role in the military plays a significant impact on your employment prospect. Company will not simply give you a high position because you were in the military, unless you were a high ranking officer with influence that will benefit the company.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 3 at 2015 9:04 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:04:21 -0500

I would do my twenty. But if you get out and you land a great job. One word seniority. You are working with people who started right out of high school. So you will be the first to go and last to get your vacation. They closed my center. I had a military pension and 17 years with the company. Union rules they had to find me another job. Eventually being on the bottom. I would have to take an opening they made up north. The top can't be forced to take those jobs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 9:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:05:43 -0500

I got out at a Lcpl with a wife and 3 kids because I thought I was missing something. It was by far the stupidest decision I ever made. That whole I'm making so much money as a contractor when I get out on the Army is a huge life. After 30 days of being a civilian I was scrambling trying to come back. No one wanted to hire me to do anything other than menial factory work. When you wife and kids is looking at you hungry and confused it makes you feel less than a man. The struggle I went through for 5 years while I was a civilian was not worth it by any stretch. I know things seem jacked up because your a Specialist, but from someone who been there and came back DON'T DO IT.

Response by Sgt Lew Dunham made Nov 3 at 2015 10:13 PM

Sgt Lew Dunham — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:13:54 -0500

Drey, be smart, stay in, get your degree in a higher paying civilian profession (IT,etc.), apply for OCS and try to retire as an officer. Your kids will have left the house (for the first time) by then and you will have a monthly check that will keep your boat afloat, whether you choose to work after the service or not. You will be providing for the family you created NOW and be able to provide quite well for you and your wife after retirement.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 10:23 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:23:09 -0500

The health insurance of your 6 kids and wife will destroy you ... so that you must consider. Second, 70k-90k ... if you can get it.

Not that I don't encourage fellow brothers to go for civilian job ... it take times and related experience to make that kind of money in a civilian job. So with zero civilian experience on your belt ... it is a bit hard to get it (not that it is impossible). It took me 10 years of engineering experience for me to reach my salary today... yes ... a lot better pay, but ten years ... with just a wife. Think very careful.

You should look for a jobs when you getting near your possible date to plan to get out, if you get a good offer, your employer usually willing to wait a few months for you to come to work :). If they really love your "skills" ... they will wait.

Response by MSG Gerry Poe made Nov 4 at 2015 11:55 AM

MSG Gerry Poe — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:55:47 -0500

First off, you have to make that decision with your spouse together. We can only give you some advice, but when it comes down to it. Unless you have some sort of education, other than an Associates you are probably making more as a SPC than what you would make on the civilian side. Now if you decide to stay in, then work hard on making it to the next rank. That will ensure you a pay raise, but with more rank comes greater responsibility. Maybe you can look at changing your MOS, not sure how Active works I haven't been active for a long time. With six kids to feed and a wife, you would have to find a pretty good job outside the military to survive. Not saying you couldn't, but it is doable! Just remember, a higher education in the right field of study is a key to civilian work success. I learned a little later in life, but it is worth the hard work to get a college degree if you do not have one.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 12:04 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:04:02 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member If you have any of the following: 1) Bachelor's or Master's Degree; 2) Accredited Apprenticeship certifications; 3) Accredited Credentials or Certifications. Then you may have a fighting chance at getting a comfortable job after military life. If you don't, well my suggestion would be to get as many as you can before you get out because military experience alone (especially at the junior ranks) is not enough now a days. The struggle is real, don't let the elusive "them" or "they" tell you otherwise.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Nov 4 at 2015 4:49 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:49:28 -0500

I have to say that you really need to look at both sides and see what is going to best benefit your family.
The plusses of staying in are the very affordable health care costs for your family compared to civilian health care, I know that my 29 year old son is paying $200 monthly for himself alone and he has a $50 deductible, this is from his work. He didn't opt for the dental because that's just over $100 monthly for 2 cleanings and 2 x-rays a year, he can go to the local dentist and pay $79 for a cleaning and x-rays.
The downside of the military as you already know is deployments that don't always allow you to be home for holidays, anniversaries, birthdays or other family events.
Its a tough choice but think about what is best for you and your family, talk to your wife about it and see what she wants also and if your kids are old enough talk to them and get their opinion.
Best of all to you in your decision.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 4 at 2015 6:09 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:09:37 -0500

Stay in. Period.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Nov 4 at 2015 8:07 PM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:07:42 -0500

Unless you have an advanced degree in a relevant and high demand field (education, medicine, IT, program management) you'll be competing with college grads for the same entry-level jobs. Presently you have full benefits and housing for your large family, no small thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 3:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:35:33 -0500

Before I explain my vote (to stay in), let me be completely honest and say that the military might not be for you, and that's not wrong or bad, nor does it make you a "bad person" or even a bad soldier. We all work to get where we are. But that being said, the army isn't for everybody. The population of us vs. the rest of the US is a great example. But many men and women who enlist stay in for only their first contract, and then ETS and move on to another chapter in their lives. Those men and women are just as much of a soldier (or marine, or sailor, or airmen, or...) as the rest of us. If everyone tried to stay in until retirement, the system wouldn't work... (or it would work even less efficiently.)

You're going to get a lot of questions in the responses made here. I suggest sitting down with your wife, writing them out on a piece of paper and answering each one with a very open and honest mindset. Can you support your family until you transition? What does your ideal transition look like? What kinds of jobs are available? What area will you move to? Do you even want to get out?

Every job has its ups and down. Everybody has their gripes. I would say "...and the military is no different!" But it's very different, and it has a lot of very unique opportunities. The only objective advice I can give you about your decision, is to make use of the opportunities that you have available. Good luck to you and yours, SPC Eaton.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Nov 5 at 2015 8:29 PM

SSG Fred Campbell — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 20:29:31 -0500

The Army was the greatest thing to ever happen to me, Jobs aren't as plentiful in the civilian sector as you think they are. If I hadn't got injured and forced into retirement, I would have stayed in the Army till my last breath.....

Response by SSG Roderick Smith made Nov 6 at 2015 8:25 AM

SSG Roderick Smith — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 08:25:49 -0500

So waaay back in '05, I was going through a medical evaluation board. I was a SPC with about 3 years TIS, and I was on the brink of a medical chapter. At one point, I was thinking "Hey, I can get out and go get a job somewhere." Everyone was getting out and getting those contractor jobs. Then I actually looked at what I had to offer the world. I was a 20 year old kid, with zero college and no viable experience in my job field. I realized that I had no business ETSing. I fought to stay in, and followed up my Fit for Duty designation with a reenlistment for an ASI-producing school. Since then, because my medical condition makes me ripe for the picking when it comes to retention (and is the reason I've been through 2 more MEBs), I've been on the warpath. College and experience, my friend. Get all you can, while you can. Put yourself in the position to be successful in the Army, and reap the benefits while you're in. Network with people in your career field. That will set you up for success when you get out. That doesn't mean that an opportunity to get out and make a lot of money won't fall into your lap. If it does, good on you. Take it. But if you feel uncomfortable or conflicted when deciding to leave, it's probably because it's a bad idea. Good luck!

Response by SSG David Dickson made Nov 6 at 2015 3:23 PM

SSG David Dickson — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:23:11 -0500

I can only answer based on your post, but it sounds like you are very uninformed about life in general. With that said, it further sounds like you are using the military as crutch. So, whether you stay in or get out is absolutely not the question. The question is, "What are you doing to further yourself in (military or civilian) life? Do you have skills that translate to civilian life that makes you worth more than minimum wage (ps every veteran puts intangibles such as leadership and reliability on their resume`s)? Do you enjoy and find military life fulfilling? Do you have a plan for pursuing a military career? Do you have a plan for life in the civilian world? Have you sat down with your family and gotten their sense on military life? Have you taken any self-improvement measures (college courses, job training)? The question as to whether to stay in or not is bogus. The question is what are you doing to make your life better? What direction are your plans taking you? Make yourself marketable, either as a Soldier or an honorably discharged veteran, but most of all, make an informed choice you have researched and feel good about.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 5:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:05:24 -0500

I enlisted at 30 years old because of how bad it was in the civilian world. I had previously held a job with the State Department thinking that if I returned back to the US things would be better, boy was I wrong!!! You have no idea how many former military I ran into that did 1 or 2 contracts and got out thinking it would be better as a civilian. Most guys I met were working jobs that paid by the hour and did retail. The guy that sold me my phone at Target had a Bachelor's Degree he earned while in the Army and was a salesperson for 3 years because he couldn't get a better job.

If you have a family I would recommend staying in because of the healthcare for your family and knowing that no matter what, you get paid every 1st and 15th. When I went to AIT I had fellow battles who had 2 Bachelors, another one had a PhD, another had 2 masters degrees, several had associates and Bachelors degrees. You know what all of them had in common? They couldn't get a job in their field and most of them were stuck working at stores and gas stations.

Stay in, finish your 20, and collect your pension. Also, no training you receive in the Army is going to mean anything when you switch over to the civilian world unless you stay in the DOD and Federal world. Getting out and trying to get a job using Army skills is like a civilian trying to join the Army and use their civilian skills. Anywhere you will go to work you will have to start from the bottom and learn a new set of rules and skills. I recently saw a flyer at a Wal Mart of a retired Army SFC who was a manager saying he used his army skills to get his job. After doing 20 yrs in the military the last place I want to work is retail, I guess everyone to their own dream... I've held several jobs and the Army is hard at times, but it is a million ways better than the civilian world.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 8:09 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:09:03 -0500

I read your first sentence and didn't have to read any further...stay in! 6 kids? dang son.

Response by SSG Phil Gray made Nov 8 at 2015 10:04 AM

SSG Phil Gray — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 10:04:36 -0500

i think you need to sit down and discuss this with your wife. No one can make this decision alone and only you can make this decision which is best for you and your family. All those salary quotes aren't real i can tell you that from experience. Some granted are (and yes they come with strings, Strings you probably will not like). Then again you have to ask yourself is the military the place for you, it isn't the life for everyone it does have it's risks as well. You and your wife must face that as well, You both know the possibility of the call of Duty for that blanket of security which it offers for your family.

Response by PO2 Michael Davis made Nov 8 at 2015 10:48 AM

PO2 Michael Davis — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 10:48:19 -0500

I'm grateful every day for having remain in the service for 21 years. My kids enjoyed seeing the USA & other countries. The money will be waiting after you retire.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2015 3:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 15:29:03 -0500

looks like your stayin LOL, but for real , you got healthcare , and steady pay. I would stay

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 8 at 2015 4:14 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 16:14:21 -0500

SPC Eaton, you can't look at arbitrary salaries. Did you get a boba fide offer? You also have to consider health insurance, life insurance, housing, etc. you may gain experience, training , and education in HR that could lead to a good civilian career.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Nov 8 at 2015 11:38 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 23:38:35 -0500

Wish I had stayed in after 6 years 73-79. But I was lucky, my MOS had prepped me for a great job in electronics. But remember, that was 1979. Today there are 93 Million unemployed Americans. Maybe a new POTUS can bring back all of the jobs that major US companies have placed overseas but that's a year away (Darn it!) and will take several years to change. Stay in, TIS requirements along with TIG should get you to Spec 5 soon with a nice increase in pay and BAQ. I'm already retired but for you, right now, it would be tough going. Start your college education now, don't wait, those 7 mouth's you support will still need three meals a day if you ETS. Just sayin'.....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2015 8:26 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 08:26:45 -0500

Staying in the army will definitely benefit you more right now. Plus your wife can go to school to get a good job while you slay away for the army.

Response by SSG John Mitchell made Nov 9 at 2015 11:27 AM

SSG John Mitchell — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 11:27:24 -0500

You do not want to be in the Civilian Job Market right now. Try like hell to stay the entire 20 and get every school option you can. The Educational opportunities that you have access to right now, you will never get in the Civilian market. Plus the longer you stay in, the more contacts you can make. Those contacts can help you when you do leave.

Response by SPC Joshua Heath made Nov 9 at 2015 3:16 PM

SPC Joshua Heath — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 15:16:10 -0500

I don't usually suggest staying in, but you need to do more research before you get out. It is possible to make that much, but not super likely for the majority of E-4's getting out.

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Nov 9 at 2015 5:23 PM

MAJ Alvin B. — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 17:23:40 -0500

Staying or going is a very personal decision.

My own my experience when I transitioned,-- getting out and getting a job is hard work! It can be intimidating to say the least. To be successful, treat it as a such, treat it as a job and an investment in the future of your family. You should consider several factors before making your decision. My comments are in no set order or priority.

You are making a significant life altering change and should treat it seriously by weighting the pros and cons of continued active service against what you discover about "life on the outside."

Consider how much longer you have on your current enlistment (if you are planning to get out you really are better off working on that plan at least 12 months before your ETS). Use the time you have to evaluate your position, determine what you want to do and plan to go after it. I recommend the serious search (if getting out) start at least 180 before you get out.

When considering your decision, be frank and honest with yourself and your family. Ask hard questions and do not flinch when you see the answers (some will be positive, some will be neutral and some will be negative).

Basic questions to get you started:
What do you want to do?
What are you qualified to do?
Where do you want to live and work?
Will you have to relocate?
Are you willing to move for a job even if the location is not ideal?
Are you willing to travel for work, if so what % of the time?
Do you know someone in a business?
Do you/can you obtain positive references?
Etc...

DO..document every little ache and pain when you go for your ETS physical (do not hold back).
DO...ensure everything (form above) is captured for the VA
DO..Talk to your State VA office, the VFW, etc...as they can help
DO..complete the transition program and do take advantage of all the time you have.

Look over you finances very carefully (remember part of your current income is tax exempt - that will change).
Make a budget, track your current spending, adjust the budget, identify what you can live without (luxuries, big ticket items for up to a year).
Pay down any credit debt you may have.
Look to your savings (how long can you cover expenses while you transition, if necessary). The objective is to avoid robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Look to the resources available from professional associations.
Check websites for jobs and salaries in your career field (remember you will need to go up in civilian salary a bit to cover the tax exempt part of your military pay as ell as the contributions to insurance, retirement, medical, dental, vision, etc..).

Start writing and re-writing your resume. Target potential employers and research those companies.

Look at all of your options, not just staying in or getting out, also consider transitioning to the USAR or ARNG.

What skill shave you acquired while on active duty and how will they translate to a civilian position?
Do you have certifications to support this?
Can you obtain any in the time you have left?

DO NOT pay for any service you can obtain for free to help you transition.

Here are some reference links that may help you get started.

My apologies, for not being able to provide more comprehensive advice.

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/deployment-and-transition/separating-from-the-military

http://www.military.com/military-transition

http://www.legion.org/careers

http://www.va.gov/jobs/

https://www.usajobs.gov/

http://www.taonline.com/

http://floridavets.org/ [Reference - as most states have a similar organization]

http://www.careerbuilder.com/?sc_cmp2=js_home_cblogo

Good luck!

Deployment & Transition > Separating from the Military - Military OneSource

You're about to start a brand new chapter involving civilian clothes and — perhaps — even a permanent address. Make the right choices for your future and your family's future by exploring your after-the-military options right now.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2015 7:14 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 19:14:30 -0500

I mentioned in another post, people to realize how well the military is paid today. When you add up your basic pay, and tax_free housing, rations and other allowance, you will find it adds up faster than most civilian pay. Perhaps if your a doctor, dentist or certain type of engineer you can make a good living; even there, starting can still be rough. Most civilian jobs have no pension; if they have medical benefit, usually costs more than TRICARE> (Civil service still does, but those salaries tend to be lower than military, and its very competitive getting into that system) If you do end up deciding to get out, at least go the Reserves or Guard, you get TRICARE Reserve Select and a retirement plan. You cant beat the camaraderie and pride of being a soldier in the civilian world!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2015 8:14 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:14:30 -0500

I'm not going to say stay in or get out. That is your decision to make. There MAY BE 70k-90K jobs are out there. HOWEVER, you have to have EDUCATION and EXPERIENCE. Plus, some are contract jobs and that is IF they get the contract. AND they can be terminated at anytime. AND some are in places you really do NOT want to go back to like Iraq or Afghanistan. MOST of the contract jobs I came across were between $50K to 60K. BUT they were high security clearance type jobs needing both education and experience. There are things you have to take into consideration when thinking it is time to leave the service. Here are some to think about:

1. Are you financially stable to go 6 to 9 months? Finding a good job that meets your needs may take you 6 months or longer. Especially if you confine yourself to a specific geographical area.
2. Medical, Dental, and life insurance will cost you some serious cash.
3. Where do you want to live? What is the job market like?
4. Do you have a degree?
5. What do you want to do? What is your back up job?

Response by SGT Aaron Dumbrow made Nov 10 at 2015 1:12 AM

SGT Aaron Dumbrow — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 01:12:53 -0500

I walked out of the Army with a medical discharge at the time, later medically retired. I thought I was going to make $100. Instead I worked odd jobs making $10/hr. It took me 5 years of hustling and 4 years of college to get there, and it was terrible.

Stay in, take advantage of the training programs, get your college done while you are there, and volunteer for every school you can. Be an outstanding soldier, keep your self out of trouble, and impress the heck out of your chain of command. Trust me you will never regret it, and when the time is right you will have the opportunities that you earn.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 8:01 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 08:01:57 -0500

I would say stay in. Those jobs you want will come easier if you have more experience. Higher your rank the more likely you are going to get that great job on the outside.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 10 at 2015 8:38 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 08:38:51 -0500

Stay in. Get IT certifications, C++, Security Plus, Java script, Sysad and Netad. The economy is not as good as you are being told.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 9:25 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 09:25:04 -0500

I too was an E4 in the army. And trying to find a job is extremely difficult. You have a large family, my advice is stay in. I know there is a ton of BS that comes with the military but it's a easy job.

Response by SPC Joseph Plunkett made Nov 11 at 2015 4:56 PM

SPC Joseph Plunkett — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:56:05 -0500

This is a very hard question to answer. Honestly, it really depends on you. I can write out a few good and bad points to consider, but in the end you have to weigh the choices.

The Good: You have the freedom to change your career as many times as you want, and do whatever you want. There is no law saying that you must keep a particular job. If you don't like a company, leave. If you want to move to another state, go. Want higher pay? Get a job that pays more. You are not tied down like you are in the military. You are 100% responsible for every aspect of your life. Whether you succeed or fail, it's your fault. There are a ton of jobs that pay very well in the civilian world. With an honorable discharge, you will be entitled to full VA benefits that will pay for college and assist you with starting a career. If you decided to take terminal leave, that can greatly assist you with finding a new job while still getting paid by the Army.

The bad. You can expect to start at the bottom of the ladder with whatever career you choose, and have to climb your way up. There will be nobody there to assist with your transition from military to civilian. Try VA is you want, but your transition is not top priority to the VA. Insurance is crazy expensive, and you are required to buy it or you are fined at the end of the year. I pay right at $995 a month for a bronze plan, for 3. When you compare that to what you pay for Tricare, that can make a substantial difference. Forget BAH/BAS, and the ability to shop tax free at the PX. That is all gone. If you screw up in the civilian world, there is no such thing as Article 15, they just fire you, and send you packing with a box of belongings.

I really hope this helps. Nobody can make your life choices but you. I strongly recommend you talk to your wife, as well as your children, and make a choice together. this isn't a small decision to make on a whim. This choice can dramatically change your life.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 14 at 2016 7:32 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:32:19 -0400

Even w/o knowing your personal situation etc a person can't help but suggest strongly you stay in for as long as you can and take every advantage of benefits there are for active duty SMs and their families. Don't know what yr financial situation is, but it would be a very rare case if you were able to transition into a position which would support your family. Best of wishes to you and congratulations on your admirable family for their support and encouragement no matter what is decided. And there is a wealth of info on RP about this serious issue...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 12:48 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:48:45 -0400

Stay in.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 8:46 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:46:57 -0400

Im seeing all this for the first time and really appreciate the feed back you all have given. I plan on staying in as long as i can. Now if only my unit would send us 42A's to schools. Gets kind of annoying hearing, oh what do you need that for? Your HR you dont need that.

Response by SSG Michael Nantz made Oct 4 at 2016 11:15 AM

SSG Michael Nantz — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 11:15:16 -0400

if you can make 70 to 90k a year you let me know....lol. someone is bs ing you that ain't no lie

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 11:19 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 11:19:49 -0400

I was in the same quagmire but decided to hang on and I didn't have friends to advice but i'm happy in due cause i'll get my degree and retire peacefully to join the corporate world.