New Basic Training Requirements: Will It Really Be Harder?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 11:12:16 -0400

Army Times is reporting that there are upcoming changes beginning in FY02016.

“Those who repeatedly make the same mistakes, we’re going to discharge them," Woods said. "Those who meet the standards will graduate. Those who don’t meet the standards won’t. What this gives the force is assurance that the quality of what’s coming through [training] is there.”

Peer evaluations and a 16k timed ruck march are to be added. Are these changes going to be positive for the quality of the force? Will the standards be objectively upheld? Do you think you had it harder during basic training; why?

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/09/27/new-basic-training-more-tests-peer-evals-coming-oct-1/72753466/

The Army's new basic training: More tests, peer evals coming Oct. 1

Beginning Oct. 1, new soldiers entering basic combat training will be required to pass three tests and tackle new mandatory tasks to graduate.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 27 at 2015 11:18 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 11:18:26 -0400

I doubt it will be harder. It seems we are making things easier on the new trainees

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 11:30 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 11:30:15 -0400

Given the new SMA and his background in TRADOC coupled with the 490,000 end strength number, it should stick. Like it or not we need a smarter Army. Boom in comes STEP. Seeing a trend?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 12:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:28:42 -0400

I don't see it becoming harder, I think at this point instead of just pushing through the numbers regardless of a "pass" or "fail", the trainees will now be required to get that "go" in order to progress. I think there will be more recycles and we might see smaller graduation classes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 12:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:31:41 -0400

Great topic for discussion!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 12:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:32:32 -0400

Nice to hear that some of the old basic skills are bring brought back.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 12:34 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:34:29 -0400

I think that these standards should not only be pushed into Basic Training but for new AIT students as well.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 3:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:16:42 -0400

I'd like to see a combination of more rigorous screening at MEPS. All too often, I get young, new Soldiers in my aid station/clinic who've been in for less than two years and have "chronic pain". I can't disprove it, so I end up MEB'ing Soldiers that probably never should have been allowed in. Whether their chronic pain is a result of poor fitness, poor body habitus, lack of mental strength or just looking for a free paycheck - its frustrating as hell to the overall unit medical readiness. How to I tell my CSM and BC that a 22 year old kid is being MEB'd for his chronic back pain when I've got a CW4 with 2,000 or more hours in a bird that has the mental toughness to drive on. No intestinal fortitude in this younger generation of recruits - and I say this at 32 years old.

Response by SGT William Howell made Sep 28 at 2015 7:08 AM

SGT William Howell — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:08:41 -0400

What is this "The Force" they keep referring to? Some SGM has a new catch phrase!!!!! When did the Army become "the Force"? I am having a hard time deciding ironically moronic or moronically ironical? When did a Drill SGT become a "training specialist"?

I just find this whole thing a bunch of lip service. They screwed up Basic before 2004 to get anything breathing through so they could deploy. Now that realize that model did not work so they are going to try something new. Let's say, "We screwed up." and go back to pre 2004 and be done with it. Why is there no one left in the Army to stop this type of merry go round policies?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 10:17 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:17:07 -0400

I don't know about "harder", but I'm really interested in seeing how Soldiers react to peer evals. The only time I ever participated in one was during Ranger School and the results weren't pretty when we ended up peering out the Chaplain for not carrying his weight.

Are we prepared as an Army to deal with sheltered 18 year olds who suddenly receive a "you suck at life" from half his/her squad mates?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 10:44 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:44:13 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I graduated in last March and we had Peer evaluations and our last ruck march was supposed to be 16 k but everybody was pretty sure it was at leas 3.2k longer.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 28 at 2015 11:09 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:09:33 -0400

So we're bringing back the standards that were in place prior to 9/11 and shortening the ruck march? I remember it was 12mi and damn sure wasn't no six hours to do it in. I like the idea though except the whole patch thing. Is the Army really going to an "everyone wins" mentality or the more crap we can make you look cool in thought process? I'm sure if you offered a pass or a patch, the pass just to get away from the DS for a day would win out easily.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Sep 28 at 2015 5:43 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:43:14 -0400

Here is how I see it. And I went through Benning in 84'. At the time that I went in, it wasn't one of those things to where if you had a pulse you were let in, you still had to be qualified to be part of the Army. You had to be able to do the training, pass and the 12 mile road was the last thing you had to complete to even walk on the parade field and be done, Graduated, and a full member of the Army. Someone said that the DS' need to do their jobs....well I talk to a lot of the newly graduated DS' when they come back from school and ask them what has changed? When I was in basic, you feared the DS. Now, gone are the days when the DS smoked your ass to get you motivated. Gone are the days when the DS was so close to your face that you could tell what their last meal was because you smelled it on their breathe. I had one new DS tell me that they could not drop the Soldier for a long period of time, or corrective action couldn't to where the Soldiers were felling picked on. Really? Once we get back into the business of training Soldiers how to be Soldier's (ie...tear them down and re-build, re-mold...whatever you call it), then we will continue to have the spoiled petulant children in our ranks. Stop coddling these adults, because that is what they are, and make them work for the right to be in the United States Military, no matter what branch of the service.

Need to get back to the days when we told whining Soldiers to "Do a Hoover" (Suck it up and move out).

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 30 at 2015 4:58 PM

1SG Michael Blount — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:58:12 -0400

TRADOC's been promising that for years. Ain't happened yet. The latest about-face I know of came with the new APFT. It included a shuttle run, and a a couple other things that were more combat relevant. In typical TRADOC fashion, they figured not enough Privates would graduate, so they canned the idea. I'd be all in favor of a smaller Army if it meant better, more combat-ready Soldiers coming out of BCT. What's coming out is a smaller Army that's less physically fit than ever.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 8:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:05:36 -0400

When I went through Basic way back when, we did EOCT testing at the end of the 8 weeks. And we did ruck marches. I saw a lot of people drop out due to not being able to pass the PT test. And there were a lot that just couldn't take the physical and mental challenges. I am hoping that the new system will generate a better soldier than we have seen over the last 14 years.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 11:21 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 11:21:49 -0400

I went through basic February of 2014. Honestly I felt like it was too easy, and wish it could've been harder. It's nice to see some changes come through.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2016 5:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 17:14:04 -0400

Has anyone seen the specific time for the ruck march? 16k (9.94 miles) in "under 6 hours" is pretty vague unless it's 5:59 or less. The German Army gold standard is 7.46 miles in 2 hours or less (bronze is 3.75 miles in 1 hour) so I feel the "new standard" doesn't say much for the strength and endurance and intestinal fortitude we expect of our Soldiers.

Response by SSG Dennis O'Connor made Jul 25 at 2016 6:03 PM

SSG Dennis O'Connor — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:03:42 -0400

I have my doubts. I was a DS at Benning 2010-2012. The demand to "push them through to the force" was overwhelming. In that environment numbers meant good NCOERS/OERS. Regardless of how much of a waste of oxygen a private was there was a pressure from higher to give them chance after chance to graduate. I don't see why this would be any different

Response by SSG Jacey R. made Jul 25 at 2016 6:26 PM

SSG Jacey R. — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:26:31 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member that is good to know, I didn't even know that phase testing had stopped.

Response by SrA Robert Schels made Jun 4 at 2018 2:29 PM

SrA Robert Schels — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 14:29:01 -0400

If they can't cut it? Get out! If there is some brat who can't keep up because he/she is too fat, lazy, spoiled, whiney or any combination of those...GET THE HELL OUT!!
This isn't some fancy boot camp. You are being trained to defend this country. So, in the words of my T. I. "Suck it up buttercup, if you can't handle it? I suggest youlearn how to flip burgers"

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 12 at 2019 9:49 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 12 May 2019 21:49:48 -0400

Lol. Back in the day the minimum standard if I remember right were 3 whole pull-ups, 3 mile run under 28 minutes, and sit-ups. I could do that before boot, I bet most athletic HS kids can.