No Achievement Awards during a deployment?

CPT Russell Pitre — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:47:48 -0400

Apparently from what I have come to find a unit got back from their tour overseas supporting OEF and their awards system was beyond screwed up. From what I understand there weren't allowed to give out any achievement awards during their deployment. Their "Commander" only let them do end of tour awards. So if a soldier did something great they would be forced to role it up in their end of tour award. They got submitted but nothing ever came back. But the Soldier of the Quarter got his for answering some silly questions that had no impact on the mission.

I am blown away by this. What the hell is wrong with these officers today. If they saved someone's life would they have only got their End of Tour AAM. And yes, there were end of tour AAM's. Is it me or is something wrong here?

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 27 at 2015 9:55 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:55:10 -0400

Someone didn't want to do any paperwork to recognize their troops...

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 27 at 2015 9:57 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:57:00 -0400

CPT Russell Pitre, Sir, you are one of those officers, would you allow that to occur in your command? They live and breed amongst us and are soo smart they cannot accept assistance or criticism!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 9:57 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:57:12 -0400

There are, unfortunately, those that want to do just the bare minimum of paperwork during the entire tour....especially at the end. And, with just doing end of tour awards, easier and faster edits can be done if need be (since most were just cookie cutter awards anyway).

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 10:50 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 22:50:43 -0400

There is the mindset that if you submit an award for a single action, you disqualify that person for a higher award as an "end of tour award". Therefore, no awards for an individual action will be submitted...ever.

One case that comes to mind involves a SPC and a PFC. The SPC and PFC responded to an incident that saved the life of a critically injured soldier from another unit. The injured soldier's unit submitted the SPC and PFC for a Bronze Star for Meritorious Service for that single action that their unit turned down...because SPCs and PFCs in their unit only qualify for ARCOMs for an End of Tour award. The wounded soldier's unit pushed the award along their own chain of command and the SPC and PFC got their BSM for Meritorious Service....but they were both denied End of Tour awards by their unit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 11:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 23:03:53 -0400

Just yesterday I was at a unit award ceremony for a Reserve unit that just finished a year-long CONUS tour supporting OEF, and saw basically the same thing and worse...

Basically, everyone got recognition, whether they filled key positions or did jack squat. Now I'm all for getting those Joes credit for a job well-done. But seriously, an AAM or ARCOM just for showing up? The icing on the cake was the clearly skewed definition of excellence. A SGT who had next to no responsibility, did not work in their position they were mobilized for, spent part of the tour on leave (emergency and convalescent), and should have been NJPd at least three different times for disrespect to officers and senior NCOs, got an AAM for just being a body in a chair. A SPC who basically acted as a Walmart greeter and even got a DUI during the tour (but no NJP!) got an AAM. Basically if you had a pulse at the time we were there, you would be sure to get an award. However, a SFC who actually had responsibility as a key player in the mission, worked across multiple echelons, and had multiple additional responsibilities without missing a beat got the same AAM. Maybe the SFC should've only gotten the AAM, but to award someone else the same level award for doing next to nothing? Insulting.
No this was not me, but a peer of mine, and had enough knowledge of their job to know this was just retarded.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 28 at 2015 12:04 AM

SPC George Rudenko — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 00:04:25 -0400

That is failed leadership. To give no awards is to say your work is substandard. Substandard work is a direct reflection of lack of leadership.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 28 at 2015 5:58 AM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 05:58:43 -0400

What happened to the idea that a person should actually do something outstanding to get a medal?

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Aug 28 at 2015 8:08 AM

SSG Leo Bell — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 08:08:33 -0400

This is crazy. You should award a person if they do something above and beyond the call of duty or just something outstanding. You have to motivate your people somehow or you will not have that person who will try and do a little extra.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 10:43 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:43:11 -0400

The only standard thing about the awards system is how unstandardized its application is.

That said I can almost guarantee that order was not from the direct commander it was from higher. There has been a huge effort to try to prevent the dilution of awards (something that actually has been a real problem in the past). The problem is it is not implimented the same way everywhere. So you still have some commands giving every person with a pulse an AAM/NAM or equivalent for each tour, and others that only give 20% of the command AAMs/NAMs and maybe 1-5% COMs.

It's a fight worth having if you have a guy who deserves something but I'll tell you right now I have been fairly unsuccessful myself in fighting it. I've even volunteered to give up "my" end of tour award so I could use that "allotment" for someone for an impact award and it was shot down.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 6:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:09:08 -0400

I never did like the idea of an "end of tour" award. I do, however, think it is unfair to not recognize those who have done some extraordinary things, like saving the live of another. Saving a life certainly deserves recognition. Soldiers are humble and will say he/she's just doing a job but we as leaders should be compelled to recognize these folks because it is the right thing to do. And another thing I disagree with is the idea that lower enlisted soldiers can't earn anything higher than an ARCOM. Who the hell made that rule?! A private who goes out on dismounted patrols daily deserves it more than the Sergeant First Class in the TOC. Regardless of rank, if you earn it you should get it. Just my opinion.

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Aug 28 at 2015 10:45 PM

Maj William Gambrell — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:45:03 -0400

I agree, but despite what everyone thinks, the Air Force does that as well. I have been an executive officer in Afghanistan during one tour and a lot of what I had to deal with was medals. I had one incident where an AFSOC CSAR (Air Force Special Forces) Airmen died during a rescue mission attempting to save a dumb ass NATO rep in a valley because he shot himself in the leg cleaning his gun. The helicopter crashed while descending in the valley and clipped its propellers on the valley wall, thus rolling the helicopter. The Airmen fell out and the helicopter rolled over him...killing him. It didn't matter what I did or how I wrote the medal, the Air Force would not give him a purple heart. Apparently, you only get the medal if you were shot at in a war environment...not that you were risking your life in a war environment. This Special Forces Airmen died and only received an Air Force Commendation Medal. Go Figure...the reality is the Air Force should have given him a better medal if for no other reason than for the family. That was a joke.

It blew my mind when the Wing Commander said we can't recommend a higher medal because his rank wasn't high enough.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 30 at 2015 6:04 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 06:04:33 -0400

At first I was going to say "Wow, these Soldiers must not have done ANYTHING besides their job while deployed" but I actually read your post.

As a Navy guy I can somewhat relate. I've seen Navy Commendation Medals get downgraded to a Letter of Commendation/Appreciation when a junior enlisted engineer single handily repaired a major casualty while another Sailor would get a Navy Achievement Medal for keeping the pop machines onboard the ship filled.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 3:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:34:51 -0400

Awards are ah huge pet peeve of mine. It irks me beyond anything how many officers and senior NCO's make them rank dependant. Pcs awards especially. How can you, in clear conscience, award an officer, who did nothing besides filing a chair in the 3 shop while barfing out DTO'S, with an MSM. But a SPC who had been in the unit 3 or more years, always ahead of his peers, enough responsibility to make your average E6 take stress leave, gets the standard ARCOM. And yes, I do say is a senior nco and commander problem. I tried to put that SPC in for the award I thought he deserved and was told to downgrade by my company commander because he wasn't about to explain to the BC csm where he lost his marbles. Thanks to all this, you can stuff your MSM and the likes of it. A thank you from my soldiers might not give me any points, but it means a lot more than that piece of given to me by a guy who doesn't even know me.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Aug 30 at 2015 7:52 PM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:52:22 -0400

Awards should be given to recognize specific achievements. If the entire unit did nothing worthwhile during the deployment, then I question the quality of leadership provided. If EVERYONE got an award upon returning, I raise the same question.

My first unit awarded me an AAM just before my PCS. I call it my "thanks for leaving award."

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 8:25 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:25:50 -0400

Blanket end-of-tour awards. They already existed in the form of the Valorous Unit Commendation and Meritorious Unit Commendation. Unit awards allow everyone to wear them. Individual awards are for individual merit.
The use of ARCOM and such as a blanket award is something that lazy leaders did or for leaders that wanted awards presented prior or just after redeployment IMO. There is nothing wrong with having a proper awards process and present them a month after block leave. In the end we develop leaders' ability to write proper awards.

Response by CPO Anthony Picciano made Oct 31 at 2015 4:02 PM

CPO Anthony Picciano — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:02:36 -0400

I did not have a retirement ceremony because of just that. They would not give my team an award or me for all the "stuff" we accomplished. I had and have no room for weak in my life then or now. I even wrote up the citation. Wow still pissed after 10years. Can't stand weak. LOL!@ "right "

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Nov 4 at 2015 11:14 AM

CPT Jim Schwebach — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:14:49 -0500

Our division commander in RVN(MG A.E. Milloy) actually published an awards policy.
His position on service awards was that the "level" was affected by the impact the service had on the unit overall and/or the level of stress the service entailed. Whether or not the award was submitted or approved depended on performance. A rifleman who spent twelve months in the woods trading bullets with the bad guys digging his own quarters every night deserved a service award greater than the Soldier of equal rank who worked in a motor pool in a secured area. A Infantry company officer whose decision directly affected the lives of the Soldiers in his unit warranted a higher level service award than the company grade officer who ran the aforementioned motor pool.The maneuver battalion commander had a higher impact and stress level than the support battalion commander. And so on through the chain of command and responsibility. As to recommendation, the fact was that not every one warranted a service award in addition to the service medal authorized for the theater.. His measure was how different was the performance level required in the combat zone than in a non combat zone. How different was the rifleman's level of performance in II Corps from the same job in Fort Bragg? How different was the finance clerk's job in An Khe from the same job in Fort Bragg? The greater the difference the more likely the recommendation. Award levels were based on position, not rank. Command positions at battalion level and above(CO an CSM) warranted the LOM. Principal staff positions at division level warranted the LOM. Service awards could only be downgraded two command levels above the recommender.
Achievement awards were for outstanding individual accomplishments. They did not excluyde the recipients from receiving service awards for periods of service which included the events recognized by achievement awards.
Granted this system was skewed toward rewarding the combat arms troops for their service and achievements at a higher rate than support troops but it reflected the commander's belief that while all give some in the combat theater, some give more than others and those folks ought to be recognized for that difference.

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Feb 18 at 2018 4:22 PM

1SG Bill Farmerie — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:22:23 -0500

From your wording, is this second hand or even third hand information? Did anyone actually do something to merit an achievement award. Too many times we jump to conclusions based upon what someone said.

Response by CW4 John Wheatley made Feb 18 at 2018 4:49 PM

CW4 John Wheatley — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:49:31 -0500

Awards should be given when earned or won You don't have to be a genius to understand that . The awards system is rotten to the core and has been for many years. Looking at the awards system( in my case since 1963) you would think that rifle squads were made up of Lts 03s and above ,not E 1s Through E6 . Take a look at the lists of awards and what ranks got them from Vietnam , Panama ,Grenada Iraq and Afghanistan and you will notice that the number of Joes that did the work is far less than supposed leaders on those lists. If a soldier does an exceptional job in garrison don't look at his rank before making your decision just remember" Rank is not synonymous with brains" and just because you are in the army it doesn't make you a soldier

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Mar 7 at 2020 3:10 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 15:10:11 -0500

Just do away with the AAM, ASR, OSR,NPDR and ban them from being worn!

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 21 at 2020 9:50 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:50:30 -0400

What makes a soldier think he deserves a medal for for doing a tour? Hell, he got paid!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2022 6:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 May 2022 18:29:06 -0400

Hell this is still happening, some units will say no impact awards and then turn around and give one for a board or a PT stud, or because some rando impressed the brigade CO. Everything you did will be used as metrics for an end of tour award, but based on your rank you'll still only get an AAM or ARCOM no matter how much or how little you did. If you got in trouble once then maybe a COA.