Now that 11B MOS is open to females, should the Army discontinue to use the word Infantryman?

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 22:25:27 -0400

The Marine Corps is discontinuing using "man" in their verbiage and replacing with Marine, e.g. Armor Marine in 33 different jobs http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/06/27/marines-remove-word-man-these-19-job-titles/86438594/
Is it time for the Army to change some as well.?

The Marines will remove the word 'man' from these 19 job titles

The new names include "basic infantry Marine" and "antitank missile gunner."

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jul 4 at 2016 10:36 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 22:36:01 -0400

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman I think, its ok with the current name, I just don't know what else to call it. Great read and share. Happy 4th of July.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 4 at 2016 10:36 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 22:36:47 -0400

Why get hung up on titles? It's about function.

We're going to use the terms Grunts & Pogs. Legs & Airborne. Does it really matter if they say Infantry Specialist or Infantryman? That's administration, not operations.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 10:37 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 22:37:00 -0400

No. We aren't like everyone else. Leave it the way it is.

Response by SSG Patricia King made Jul 5 at 2016 12:17 AM

SSG Patricia King — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 00:17:09 -0400

I use the term infantry soldier. Infantryman is not grammatically correct but if they never change it that's ok. I can be a woman and an infantryman

Response by SFC William Farrell made Jul 5 at 2016 12:21 AM

SFC William Farrell — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 00:21:24 -0400

No, keep it as it was for two hundred years @cw5 andrew

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jul 5 at 2016 12:30 AM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 00:30:23 -0400

Best change woMAN and huMAN, too, I guess. Woperson. Huperson.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Jul 5 at 2016 1:09 AM

MSgt John McGowan — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 01:09:35 -0400

CW5. It's PC in overdrive. Some words doesn't need to be erased. Some deeds and words have been time tested and lasted hundreds of years. Is history being rewritten? Just where are we going with all this PC? . When is the question going to come up of one's value to the state. Isn't that a little on the PC side? Everything is climate and PC now and soon something else will be added. Oh, it already has. Gender free bathrooms. What next?

Response by SPC Kirk Gilles made Jul 5 at 2016 3:49 AM

SPC Kirk Gilles — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 03:49:31 -0400

It's just another method of creating derision in the services.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 3:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 03:59:41 -0400

Absolutely not! The fact that this is even a question being posed makes me happy I'm about to retire!

Infantryman is the not a gender thing, it is for the gender not specific of the word like "mankind"

Response by SPC Dee Bartlett made Jul 5 at 2016 5:25 AM

SPC Dee Bartlett — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 05:25:26 -0400

This gets on my nerves.
Do we really have this much time and money on our hands?

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jul 5 at 2016 6:03 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:03:20 -0400

Social engineering done wrong, Hell throw money and news stories at it and it will appear to work, that's what politicians and Career enhancing folks do.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 5 at 2016 6:25 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:25:49 -0400

Why should it be changed?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 6:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:53:26 -0400

It is stated in numerous regulations that when gender is not outright determined by the specific point in the regulation that the using the male identifier is used. Infantryman is fine, leave it. Any females who can meet the physical and mental demands of the 11B MOS ought to be mentally resilient enough not to get offended by little things like that which have no impact on any tangible thing.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jul 5 at 2016 7:49 AM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 07:49:57 -0400

The only changes the Army needs is to go back to the pre-9/11 standards and culture! Too much has changed especially since Obama!!!

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jul 5 at 2016 8:00 AM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:00:07 -0400

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 8:10 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:10:13 -0400

... along with Postman (Postperson), Mankind (Personkind) Manual Labor (Personual Labor), Fireman (Excessive combustion reduction specialist). Portuguese Man-O-War (Portuguese Spineless Marine Lifeform-O-War) and so on?

Response by SGT David T. made Jul 5 at 2016 8:33 AM

SGT David T. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:33:37 -0400

I could care less about the name. What I care about is lethality and the ability to close with and destroy the enemy. As long as that is done, the job can be called Care Bears for I care lol.

Response by SSG Mike Busovicki made Jul 5 at 2016 9:14 AM

SSG Mike Busovicki — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 09:14:09 -0400

I think the term "Soldier" is an appropriate and professional replacement.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 9:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 09:32:41 -0400

Here's my thought: both woMAN and feMALE have masculine designators within the word. So when we say "woman," or "female," they both have those masculine identifiers. So "Infantry Personnel," "Infantry Soldier" and "Infantry Woman" are all too much to say in casual conversation, let alone the clipped, hurried professional conversation we have in our world, so why not just drop the "WO" and leave it? I mean really, the generalization for humani is still "man" and "he" so, who is it really going to hurt? The gender-offended femi-nazis who want to cry whenever anything even remotely phallic is in their general area? No. Leave it alone, as tradition dictates, and carry on like every soldier before you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 9:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 09:44:29 -0400

Hell no! I'm hoping it won't last long... It shouldn't take too long to prove that woman in general, with very few exceptions, physically don't have what it takes... Maybe then the powers that be will see the mistake they are making (or have made). They are unnecessarily putting lives at risk...

Response by SGT William Harding made Jul 5 at 2016 11:39 AM

SGT William Harding — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:39:43 -0400

So glad I'm out. As a man I'm designed by my creator God to protect and watch over women and children. Women should not feel or think they have to be in combat arms to begin with. Shame on us men for not doing our job. I was in Special Operations, an infrantryman, and Bradley commander. I worked with other countries, like Isreal, that had female soldiers and they could put majority of our men soldiers to shame, but of course they have been a state of war their entire existence. Our politicians are the problem and as best said by Jack Nicholson, promote them all. and let women do what they think they need to do. I will pray for our soldiers, the military, and our country. God is the only One who can truly help. RTLW!

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 5 at 2016 11:40 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:40:01 -0400

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman, the article also stated that certain positions would remain unchanged; specifically rifleman and mortarman. I say leave it alone.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 5 at 2016 11:59 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:59:20 -0400

No. "Infantryperson" has too many syllables.....

Response by SFC Luis Rodriguez made Jul 5 at 2016 12:16 PM

SFC Luis Rodriguez — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 12:16:24 -0400

What does it matter... Women are men when they join anyway! Just think, our Republicans never served, that makes the little girls!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 1:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:26:50 -0400

No. We still call humans mankind don't we

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 5 at 2016 2:52 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:52:35 -0400

They will!

Response by SGT Gary Sokol made Jul 5 at 2016 2:59 PM

SGT Gary Sokol — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:59:47 -0400

When I was on guard duty, a Navy female came through the gate, and I asked for the correct way to address her, and she said, "airman", so it obviously was not an issue
for her.

Response by SSG Daniel Brewster made Jul 5 at 2016 3:47 PM

SSG Daniel Brewster — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:47:42 -0400

We should probably remove all gender identifiers from our vocabulary. Dad? Connotates oppressive white male. That one has to go. Father? Implies male role model. That one has to go. Husband? Both sexist and financial slavery. Somewhat oppressive as well. That one has to go. Son? Who am I to tell my son that he can't have dreams of being a daughter? Or a cat. That one has to go as well. We should also think about changing formal names. Daniel? It is a masculine name and means "God is my judge" - both overbearing and offensive to those that may not believe in God. That one has to go.

Infantryman? Egads, that speaks to centuries of oppression and violence. That has to go as well.

Yes, I could go on all day.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 3:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:49:04 -0400

Who in the hell cares. Stop worrying about titles and, worry about doing your job. Let's all stop being so sensitive to where as having the word man in a flipping title rustles or jimmies. If having the word man in infantryman bothers you GTFO of the Army. You know what other word has man in it WOMAN!

Response by SPC Charles Zeller made Jul 5 at 2016 7:41 PM

SPC Charles Zeller — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 19:41:47 -0400

I'm just going to get my DD-214 blanket to protect myself from this stuff. I was a U.S. Army Infantryman there was no infantry person but hey times change just don't think it's always for the better.

Response by SPC Kirk Gilles made Jul 5 at 2016 9:46 PM

SPC Kirk Gilles — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:46:52 -0400

Soldier Care Soldier Care Soldier Care. If my girls are drafted under some new guidelines and sent to 11B school then you better do your duty and teach them the skills. Only as strong as weakest link? I didn't say female soldiers were weak so stop typing.
If you are given a 98lb guy, a girl or a circus clown then you give your all to them. Yes, circus clowns, listen up, we may draft you too.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 9:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:52:26 -0400

No tradition

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 10:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 22:19:20 -0400

I spoke to the Infantry branch chief about two months ago and he said that the Army will not be transitioning to a gender neutral term.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 12:57 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 00:57:26 -0400

Sounds like a fix to something that's not an issue. But side note why was the army so hesitant to put females in infantry when Airforce has had female battle field airman for quite a long time now.

Response by SGT Mia Mason made Jul 6 at 2016 5:15 AM

SGT Mia Mason — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 05:15:39 -0400

As a infantryman myself it's an honor earned the skill set to be one with others so we can be called on as brothers in Arms. Simply put it's time to add our sisters too.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 7:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 07:47:27 -0400

No. Going by Merriam Webster's definition of man it is "an individual human". Change a word for political correctness is stupid. Its like cussing. I hear all the time how bad it is to cuss but its ok to cuss in a different language if no one understands. Hurt feelings and political correctness should be on the bottom of the military's list of things to worry about.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 10:50 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:50:56 -0400

Its a waste of time and resources. For those who are hung up on this, how do you deal with languages like Spanish where nearly everything has a gender identifier?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:58 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:58:43 -0400

We use the term "manpower" --in fact, we have an Army agency and even a DOD Secretariat with the word "manpower" in their titles.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 11:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 23:53:16 -0400

Who, actually, cares!?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 6:25 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 06:25:01 -0400

Infantier

Response by SPC James Gehringer made Jul 8 at 2016 5:29 AM

SPC James Gehringer — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 05:29:25 -0400

as a proud INFANTRYMAN this topic speaks to me on a personal level why should i have to change what i was called because some weak willed officals in the army caved in to political B.S. and allowd women in a M.O.S. they don't belong! i know some people will say "how can you say women don't belong in the infantry you are just being sexist?"but i can give you a list of reasons i saw first hand why they don't belong.
1. the Men around them will attemp to protect them more then they would a male even to the dertment of the mission and risikng thier lives and the lives of other male soilders to protect the women.
2. it is a biiological fact that most women are not as phisically stron as the average man.
3. Hygene can become an issue there were time i had to go for almost a month without a proper shower do to water limitations women are prone to get verious infections in their internal genitaila when going that long without a proper shower
4. in iraq we had a mixed gender support unit within the first 3 months 16 of the 39 women in that unit went home pregnant for the consentual sex they were having while on deployment.
5. and i hate to admit this would be an issue because i'd hope that the honor of the average soilder would prevent it but the intances of rape will increase - ai know a lot of people will disagree with this reason they will say that there are precations in plce to prevent this but i have seen how infantry men talk and act in the feild when out there long enough many would have sex with any thing. some even againts the female's will (granted that # is very small and when what he did came out his fellow infantrymen would most likely beat him half to death)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 11:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:33:17 -0400

Why are Airmen still called Airmen? Women are in the Air-force they are still Airmen.

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Jul 9 at 2016 12:36 AM

CPL Richard Flagg — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 00:36:06 -0400

Social Darwinism has infiltrated every aspect of our culture; which is a shame especially when used on our military. As a Grunt your job isn't to be sensitive to anyone's feelings, but to punch their ticket to leaving this planet when they are the enemy. This sensitive Politically Correct crud needs to stay away from institutions with Honor, Integrity, and Tradition and just plain leave well enough alone.

Response by SFC John Hill made Jul 11 at 2016 9:38 AM

SFC John Hill — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:38:47 -0400

Just do what they are currently doing. In the front of the AR, FM, etc include the disclaimer statement: Unless this publication states otherwise, masculine nouns and pronouns do not refer exclusively to men.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jul 17 at 2016 11:44 PM

SGT Richard H. — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 23:44:47 -0400

There are female Firemen and the world hasn't come crumbling down. I suspect it won't over this either.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2016 7:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jul 2016 19:21:33 -0400

Seaman, airman, both have man in the titles and ALOT of women in the ranks. Not sure why any of this matters. Why would we rescind every training manual, sign, t-shirt, POI, or anything else that could have the word infantryman in it just to accomadate a fraction of a percent of females that will actually join the infantry? Just my 2 cents

Response by SGT Robert Cupp made Aug 30 at 2016 4:53 PM

SGT Robert Cupp — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:53:38 -0400

NO!! NEVER!!

Response by SPC Mario Lozano Jr made Jan 6 at 2017 8:51 PM

SPC Mario Lozano Jr — Fri, 06 Jan 2017 20:51:53 -0500

Women shouldnt even be in the infantry. Women are constantly Complicating things....shmdh

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Apr 2 at 2017 9:32 PM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 21:32:05 -0400

Bloody damned political correctness run amok!

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 16 at 2017 11:04 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:04:16 -0400

I kinda thought "grunt" was kinda unisexual ...

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2017 10:45 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 10:45:00 -0500

If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 1 at 2019 6:01 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 01 Jan 2019 06:01:51 -0500

I don't see any reason to change the title from Infantryman. The Air Force had E1 to E4 as Airman and none of the females i'v encountered while serving in the USAF are or were bothered by that in fact they don't want it changed. Nit picking to try and be Politically Correct in my opinion has no place in the Military service. I fee that most the men and women who serve in the US Armed Forces are above that sort of thing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2021 7:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 May 2021 07:25:58 -0400