NSA surveillance

2013-11-23T22:00:55-05:00

When is it going too far? Should American's support it? What will be next??

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Nov 23 at 2013 10:35 PM

2013-11-23T22:35:54-05:00

Anything to stop the communist....Put some context into your question what exactly do you have an issue with?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2013 10:44 PM

2013-11-23T22:44:20-05:00

If these situations of abuse are being properly characterized, it is already chilling. When President Carter was in, we were respectful and knew our boundaries as far as free speech is concerned. I cannot say that now. A friend of mine from high school, a former veteran and state representative, feels similarly.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Nov 23 at 2013 10:58 PM

2013-11-23T22:58:52-05:00

If you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2013 11:33 PM

2013-11-23T23:33:30-05:00

SFC Gannon,

Here's my point of view on the matter.

The Constitution of the United States of America, a document we all swore to "support and defend", has that necessary and proper section of the Bill of Rights. In that Bill of Rights we have the 4th Amendment. The 4th Amendment states,

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place
to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Now, this obviously doesn't apply to NONE US Persons (so about 99% of everyone outside of the United States), but clearly applies to US Citizens, Legal Aliens in the United States and US based corporate entities.

The issue at hand is that according to Edward Snowden and the media releases, your metadata was collected by the US Government, without any reasonable suspicion that you were planning to, engaging in or formerly committed a criminal or terrorist act. There was no warrant clearly stating a "place" to be search or "things to be seized". This means who you contacted, when you did it, for how long and more, were all collected by the US Government, without your knowledge and without a reason to other than, "because we said so."

Regardless of whether or not it is "effective" or if it stops terrorist's is another matter. Thus far, the US Government has not been able to provide, at the request of the public, a single example of where this program single handily stopped a direct and/or imminent threat to the United States of America and our National Security.

When I swore my oath, it is first and foremost to the Constitution of the United States of America, then to the President of the United States of America, followed by the officers appointed over me. Notice, the Constitution comes before both of them and therefore, they are also accountable to the same.

If We The People do not like the limits the Constitution has placed on our government, we can Amend it, as we've done over a dozen times.

Response by SFC James Baber made Nov 23 at 2013 11:52 PM

2013-11-23T23:52:28-05:00

I have always been in the mindset, if you are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, who cares who is checking on what and who I talk/write/associate with.

Response by SPC Gary Basom made Nov 24 at 2013 1:51 AM

2013-11-24T01:51:39-05:00

When they start looking in your windows...seriously.

Response by SPC Gary Basom made Nov 24 at 2013 1:58 AM

2013-11-24T01:58:51-05:00

I know many people see it as if you should have no problem with it if you have nothing to hide. But when it involves looking in your windows at your house for example, would you feel the same way? You guys would definitely not like it if you saw a drone looking in your window if you were doing something I cannot say here with the wife.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2013 1:59 AM

2013-11-24T01:59:02-05:00

For those that are truly concerned with their privacy, don't use cellphones, internet, or email. It is pretty simple. Do I get angry if I get a speeding ticket? Yes. Do I get angry with the police? Absolutely. Do I get rid of my car or motorcycle? Not a chance. There are going to be times when you sacrifice personal freedoms (like doing 150 MPH down I-95) for the safety and betterment of the group. Since I am not hitting triple digits in the highway, I've got nothing to worry about.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Nov 24 at 2013 2:10 AM

2013-11-24T02:10:55-05:00

You want it taken care of properly, take the civilians out of the equation. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines man many of the NSA billets. Their oath to the constitution comes before their duty to the orders of the officers and civilians appointed over them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2013 3:34 AM

2013-11-24T03:34:25-05:00

From all of the issues reported in the news (be they true or not) to the movies being made about these issues......ummmmm yeahhhhhh I'd say we're WAY past the point of it going too far.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2013 3:59 PM

2013-11-24T15:59:50-05:00

Certain instances is not what we are talking about here. Were it related to those specific circumstances it would be different. If what has been happening doesn't scare you, then what are we doing?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2013 4:22 PM

2013-11-24T16:22:35-05:00

I don't support it because it's east to take something and twist and spin it negatively. Look at the news... They are professionals at making something look bad that isn't. If Big Brother looks into your life, and sees something such as... "You buy Bitcoins" or "You talked smack about the President"... You get put on some Black List and investigated.

Hell, just writing this paragraph probably put me on some watch list... LOL!!

And for everyone that says "If you didn't do anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?" That's crap... You are guilty until proven innocent in this age of America.

Response by SGT Thomas Sullivan made Nov 25 at 2013 1:50 AM

2013-11-25T01:50:37-05:00

I have one thing to say on this issue.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

Constitution of the United States - Official

The work of many minds, the U. S. Constitution stands as a model of cooperative statesmanship and the art of compromise.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2013 1:59 AM

2013-11-25T01:59:49-05:00

I think they run a very real chance for a backlash from the American voter that will cause even this administration to stop and think for a moment.

Response by SSgt Daniel Batista made Nov 26 at 2013 8:09 AM

2013-11-26T08:09:37-05:00

I have been following this NSA issue ,and I feel confident when I say that the reason we have NSA is for our own protection. I have never been a fan of Big Brother ,but I am all for our government hunting any terrorist cell that threatens our families and friends and all our assets abroad. There has been countless of times ,when NSA intercepted communications from terrorists and drug lords and passed on the intelligence reports all the way down to our local law enforcement ensuring the prosecution and conviction of these thugs. We need to give the NSA a Break!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2013 11:59 AM

2013-11-26T11:59:11-05:00

Whatever 3 letter agency can watch me all they want to. I don't have anything to hide. I understand that it's a constitutional rights issue and this is a sensitive subject. If traditional methods of stopping terrorist attacks aren't working, my question to everyone is what are you willing to sacrifice in order to offer a greater situational awareness? If this surveillance stops 1 attempt then it was worth it.

Let's look at it like this. If the NSA stops surveillance because the American public stand up and say that it is violating their rights and we are victims of another terrorist attack because of the lack of surveillance, would you be as fast to stand up and say that at least your individual rights weren't violated?

Correct me if I am reading your posts wrong, but it seems that most are more focused about their individual rights as opposed to the overall protection of the United States. When 9/11 happened the government took the blame. Now that the same government has put strategies in place to help ensure the safety of the citizens of the United States they are being blamed for violating individual rights. So what do you want? Do you want increased protection from the ever present terror threat or are you worried about someone seeing the email that you are sending out?

We make decisions everyday in the military that is "for the greater good." We can't make everyone happy. The same can be said about our society. For everyone that wants to stop the surveillance, put your name on a list. When the next attack happens because we didn't have the intel to stop it, remember that you had a part in aiding it to happen to begin with.

Response by SSgt Daniel Batista made Nov 26 at 2013 12:07 PM

2013-11-26T12:07:40-05:00

I am not worried at all if the government decides to listen in on my conversations .I never discuss classified information over unsecured lines and as for my personal e-mails and or websites I have a higher authority to answer to if I ever step out of line. God is watching us all anyways, including the NSA!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2014 2:21 AM

2014-12-04T02:21:41-05:00

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

What else needs to be said? We live in a free society. That comes with risks. I'll keep my freedoms, thank you.