Oath Keepers Yah or Nah?

SGT Kevin Brown — Mon, 18 May 2015 02:18:27 -0400

For this question I am not talking about the term it self, but rather the group, Oath Keepers (http://www.oathkeepers.org). If yah, are you a member and/or why do you support them? If nah, what makes you say so?

Update: I am not sponsoring nor trying to promote Oath Keepers on Rally Point. This question is not an invitation to join Oath Keepers.org. I am just curious about everyone's opinions about the group itself. This is merely a question I posed as a way to gain insight into how other service members and veterans see the group.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 11:03 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:03:20 -0500

While in uniform, you walk a fine line in supporting an agency like the Oathkeepers openly. Conduct careful study into its members and their tenets and determine how well they match with the oath you took. A member of the United States military can support all kinds of organizations as long as they are not done publicly. Look at other organizations that support the Oathkeepers and their records. This is where I have the hardest time with the organization. Often you can't tell an organization from their professed beliefs, but you can judge them on what other organizations they are supported by...and who and what they support.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 12:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:10:20 -0500

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member, see if you can answer this question without violating your Oath of Enlistment. But, before you do that, consider which Oath has (or would have) primacy; your Oath of Enlistment, or the "Oathkeepers'" oath?

What is it about the "Oathkeepers" that appeals to you and leads you to consider becoming a member?

If I had any interest in joining them (which I do not), my answer would be that their oath violates the Enlistment Oath. Since I'm not bound by the Oath of Enlistment, I have to answer that question in the context of the Oath of Office.

Response by SPC Spencer Kahn made Dec 8 at 2014 12:40 PM

SPC Spencer Kahn — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:40:44 -0500

I'd venture to say The Oathkeepers is a bit more beneficial & prevalent towards retired & or non active duty service members.

Response by SGT David Paulson made Dec 9 at 2014 3:25 PM

SGT David Paulson — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 15:25:07 -0500

The problem which becomes apparent in the oathkeeper's oath is one of blatant paranoia.
•1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
•2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.
•3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
•4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
•5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
•6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
•7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
•8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."
•9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
•10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
Look at number 1 in the list. It is clearly aimed at an envisioned mass stripping of weapons from the American populace. Now imagine it in the context of taking a weapon away from a dangerous criminal as police do routinely. Are they now wrong? The context of the Oathkeeper's agenda is an end of rules American plight by which we disintegrate into near anarchy, and I am sure they would agree. Number 2, warrantless searches happen all the time, they are called consentual searches. How about number 4? No state of emergency may be called? I'm pretty sure this has been done plenty of times including Hurricane Katrina. George W Bush did poorly assist the citizens of Louisiana during the Katrina crisis. Obama beefed up FEMA funding to prevent this from happening again. Light the fires of conspiracy. Now every FEMA trailer is a prison by these fear based beliefs. There is a lack of everyday context built into the Oathkeeper's manifesto. The armed forces oath of enlistment does not separate defense of the constitution as being markedly separate than obeying the orders of the chain of command. It simply mentions both. The oathkeeper's oath does attempt to separate them, and the verbiage by which it is done is inferior to my short epistle.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Mar 5 at 2015 3:07 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 15:07:59 -0500

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member, Oath Keepers was founded by Stewart Rhodes, a Yale law school graduate and former paratrooper, on Lexington Green, April 19, 2009. It is "a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders" dedicated to keeping the oath to defend the Constitution. Specifically, there are ten orders that Oath Keepers deems would violate the oath if obeyed. They therefore resolve the following:

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people. 
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people .
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. 
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. 
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. 
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
 7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. 
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." 
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. 
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

Long version available at http://oathkeepers.org/oktester/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/

I think that Oath Keepers is a well-intentioned, admirable, patriotic, and law-abiding group.

Oath Keepers organized armed security (volunteers who brought their own gear) during the Ferguson riots for small businesses (mostly minority-owned) who couldn't afford to pay a security company. Their efforts were effective.

Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey | Oath Keepers

“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army” – Gen....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2015 8:14 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Mar 2015 08:14:48 -0500

The Constitution is addressed in the various oaths we give. The oath keepers spell it in more legal clarity as affirmation and clarity. They pretty much are work with authorities. The only people that should have a problem with them are those who would violate the constitution. They are very ethically minded. They follow the law. I am not one but I wouldn't fear anyone committing to follow the law.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made May 18 at 2015 3:35 AM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Mon, 18 May 2015 03:35:20 -0400

I am simply not inclined to join ... thanks for asking.

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made May 18 at 2015 8:13 AM

SSG Donald Mceuen — Mon, 18 May 2015 08:13:08 -0400

I have never heard of them looking them up. Let you know.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made May 18 at 2015 1:04 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Mon, 18 May 2015 13:04:25 -0400

I've met several. They get VERY close to "enemies...domestic" in just about every conversation I've had. Paranoid, uneducated "Constitutional Scholars" who think violence is an acceptable strategy to forcing their particular brand of freedom (which is oddly limited to their opinions, religious beliefs and ideology) on the rest of the country.

So no.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 18 at 2015 1:32 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 18 May 2015 13:32:09 -0400

My allegiance and loyalty are to the safety and security of the American people, so no.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 5:15 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 17:15:05 -0400

No. Everything I've seen or heard from them is the very brand of tyrrany they claim to fight against. They're paranoid beyond delusional.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 18 at 2015 5:47 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Mon, 18 May 2015 17:47:31 -0400

Absolutely not..they misinterpret the constitution to support their own ideology while most have never read it. Never heard of them before we got a president that they didn't like.

Response by SGT Richard H. made May 19 at 2015 9:47 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 19 May 2015 21:47:32 -0400

I'm voting "nah", but I do have mixed opinions.

On the one hand, I support their core ideal that they will not break the oath to defend the constitution, and therefore would not support the disarming of American Citizens, or the stripping of any of the other rights granted by it.

On the other hand, I've seen some really backwards ways of claiming to support the Constitution that border on, if not outright contradict, the very ideals of the Constitution.

Overall, I arrived at "nah" because for them to be taken seriously, they would need to unify, organize, and 100% fall in line with the Constitution for them to be anything other than a potential danger to the very Constitution they swear to uphold.

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made Aug 11 at 2015 11:39 AM

SFC Robert Wheeler — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:39:49 -0400

While in uniform, only one oath counts and that's the one you took when you joined. Taking another that is counter to the first is treasonous in my thinking.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Aug 11 at 2015 9:24 PM

CPT Chris Loomis — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:24:11 -0400

SPC Jeffery Salter

Before you jump in head first you should take a look at the Southern Poverty Law Center's reporting on the Oath Keepers.

Also, what do you know about sovereign citizenry?

Have you taken a look at the anti-government laws of the state in which you plan to join and participate in the activities of the Oath Keepers.

You might want to, "profile", and take a look a good look at who is really operating as Oath Keepers. What I mean by that is this: are you falling in with the right crowd or a bunch of yahoos that are out there trying to relive the golden age of whatever? Are these people really honorable Veterans and first responders?

Here's an interesting thing to look into: What system of policies are in place by the Oath Keepers for internal control and discipline?

Just some food for thought....

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Sep 22 at 2015 1:31 PM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:31:52 -0400

I am not one, but I'm glad this organization exists.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Sep 30 at 2015 5:11 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:11:14 -0400

I don't.

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 30 at 2015 5:35 AM

Cpl James Waycasie — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:35:54 -0400

I do not physically know any Oath Keepers but I do know of many of them through Social Media. According to what they say they stand for the only difference between them and myself is that I have not officially joined their organization.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Sep 30 at 2015 7:43 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 07:43:25 -0400

As I said in this post (link below) I feel the Oath Keepers are giving themselves a bad wrap. Some of their actions have resulted in the negative views towards the organization and while I think they have some good intentions, their execution is off target sometimes.

"'Oath Keepers' armed with military weapons take to streets of Ferguson" | RallyPoint

From: MetroFour civilians carrying military-style rifles and sidearms patrolled a riot-torn street in Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday, saying they were there to protect a media organization but drawing swift criticism from police and protesters alike.The appearance of the four men, all white, quickly drew stares in the mostly black neighborhood, which exploded into violence again on Sunday night as protesters marked the police killing of an...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 8:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:37:14 -0400

never heard of it

Response by SGT William Howell made Sep 30 at 2015 10:51 AM

SGT William Howell — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:51:03 -0400

Not up for any wack job rookies. Camo and running around in the woods does not make you a Militia. It does however make me think you may not be wired too tight and I don't want to see you pulling up to a building in a Ryder truck.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 30 at 2015 12:37 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:37:02 -0400

Nah... Nutshell

5 Surprising Things I Learned Infiltrating An Armed Militia

The Oath Keepers' core membership is largely comprised of active duty and retired police officers, firefighters, and military. I went undercover in this group, and this is what I learned.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 12:44 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:44:17 -0400

.... is a militia group ... that is all I can said through my understanding of them ...

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 1:00 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:00:54 -0400

The idea in and of itself is written in our oaths. That being said, the execution of their agenda is not in line with our values as a whole. While you may not be able to tell from their actions or their written communication, you can look at their associations. See who they support and who supports them. You will be surprised at who they are alligned with.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Nov 29 at 2015 7:53 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 07:53:52 -0500

As a German American I am reminded of another group that focused on an Oath and it wasn't a good thing ""I am Germany and Germany is Me" "You will swear an Oath to me". I view them in that same light.

Response by SP5 Dave (Shotgun) Shockley made May 17 at 2017 12:06 PM

SP5 Dave (Shotgun) Shockley — Wed, 17 May 2017 12:06:41 -0400

I am a new member, and so far I have seen nothing that would discourage me from staying a member. Most that I have come into contact with are Veterans or retired Police. They seem patriotic and proud of their backgrounds. My hope is that I will be able to engage with the members in Virginia when something is scheduled within reasonable driving distance.

Response by Sgt Bruce Larson made Apr 7 at 2020 3:52 PM

Sgt Bruce Larson — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:52:02 -0400

I’m an individual that believes very strongly about the oath I took at enlistment. Strongly conservative and very upset with the trend of the legislators.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 19 at 2022 8:53 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 19 Jan 2022 08:53:10 -0500

Disgusting right wing extremist group. Every conversation I've ever had with a member about the group narrowed their belief structure down to three key tenets:

Oathkeepers in a nutshell
1) Guns are great!
2) Gays, liberals and minorities are ruining the country.
3) We need the guns to kill the gays, liberals and minoroties to save the country.

Disgusting group. Definite "nah".

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jan 23 at 2022 6:45 AM

LTC Eugene Chu — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 06:45:30 -0500

Nah because of their alleged seditious conspiracy to attack the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy

Leader of Oath Keepers and 10 Other Individuals Indicted in Federal Court for Seditious...

WASHINGTON – A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an indictment yesterday, which was unsealed today, charging 11 defendants with seditious conspiracy and other charges for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, which disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress that was in the process of ascertaining and counting the electoral votes related to the presidential election.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 21 at 2022 6:29 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:29:56 -0400

Nah. But we have the same level of fanatics in publicly elected office right now. For anyone to say a man can be a woman is a fanatic.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 20 at 2022 9:34 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 21:34:52 -0400

No if they are into anti-government conspiracies and actions. No if they have distorted interpretations of the Constitution,

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2022 9:46 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Jul 2022 21:46:50 -0400

I don't support the oath keepers because I don't support any extreme group or extremist.
I find it hypocritical that some on here state they don't support extremist groups such as the oath keepers but do support left wing extremist groups such as ANTIFA and BLM.