Old Glory I Salute You – Will You Join Me?

MG Peter Bosse — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:49:16 -0400

Recently, at a military event in Washington D.C., I was struck by a feeling that something just wasn’t right. As the US flag was brought into the indoor event by an incredibly professional flag detail, all the civilian and military personnel rose and stood at the position of attention. Military personnel adjusted to continue facing the flag as the flag detail moved across the room. Then, the national anthem played and all of the military personnel remained at the position of attention while the civilians placed their hand over their heart. As a “Twice the Citizen” soldier, I felt conflicted and I couldn’t help but feel as though I was not paying the proper respect to the symbol of our nation. Shouldn’t I be doing something with my hand and my arm? Everything was in accordance with the military regulations that cover indoor ceremonies but, in my view, that didn’t make it right.

After 37 years of military service in all three components of the US Army (Active, National Guard and Army Reserve), I must admit I have a soft spot for Old Glory (the US flag) and for our national anthem. Some people might say I’m just a patriotic fool in view of all the challenges our nation currently faces. But to that I reply - we are a resilient nation of optimists who will find our way eventually and likely come out stronger than before. I am not convinced that standing at the position of attention, while all eyes are on the military, is the best way of paying our unequivocal respect to the symbol of our nation.

I’m a simple guy who believes in simple, yet powerful, concepts. What if every past and present military member always saluted Old Glory 100% of the time in a show of respect and solidarity - indoors or outdoors, rain or shine, with or without headgear? Past and present military members are bound by their service to our nation and this act of solidarity would further bind us to each other. Imagine never having to remember again which situation or circumstances dictated what to do when Old Glory passes or when the national anthem is played. Today, during a military or civilian parade when the US flag passes, veterans always rise, come to the position of attention, and salute. At a baseball game, when the national anthem is played, people rise to their feet, remove their headgear and place their hands over their hearts. What if all the veterans at the baseball game saluted instead of placing their hands over their hearts? Why not take the same approach, 100% of the time, for all events? I once had a drill sergeant who provided some sound advice when asked how often enlisted personnel should salute officers. That drill sergeant said, “You can’t go wrong if you salute 100% of the time.” So why not take that same, simple approach with Old Glory and our national anthem?

Have you ever asked yourself why military personnel don’t salute the US flag 100% of the time? I’m not sure how we got to where we are today with differences between indoor and outdoor events, and differences with and without headgear. Maybe it’s time to revisit and update those regulations. In this day and age, when military service is more rare than in generations past, isn’t it time for all veterans to band together in support of one another and in support of our country? Who knows the value of that symbol of our nation better than those who have fought to defend it? I think it’s time to salute Old Glory. As veterans, we have earned the right, and we have a solemn obligation to those who made the ultimate sacrifice to salute the symbol of our nation. Imagine being at your next event, and seeing all active duty and veteran military personnel saluting the US flag. How would that feel? I’m confident I would feel a tremendous amount of pride in seeing that solidarity and mutual outpouring of enduring respect for the symbol of our nation.

I believe all military members should start a grassroots effort to salute Old Glory 100% of the time. At my next military or civilian event, I intend to take the lead and salute Old Glory – will you join me?

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This editorial is my personal opinion and does not reflect the views of the US Army Reserve, the US Army or the Department of Defense.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 9:52 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:52:15 -0400

I find myself in the same situation, sir. At my Council meetings, I still stand at attention with my hand on my heart while reciting the Pledge. I have taken it upon myself to make sure that our honor guard does it the right way - I was tired of looking like some slack-jawed idiots that couldn't even get in step. I always make sure the eagle is facing out on the flag pole.
I have noticed others taking cue from my actions & hope that it continues.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Mar 31 at 2017 10:14 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:14:48 -0400

National Defense Bill H.R. 1585 2008 gives amended saluting rules for veterans and military in civilian clothes.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Mar 31 at 2017 10:27 AM

SGT Philip Roncari — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:27:04 -0400

I would like to relate a story from my past concerning Old Glory,my memory is still clear after fifty years,we were returning from extended operations in the Central Highlands of Vietnam,leaving the wood line of that dark triple canopy jungle out into the open to enter the artillery fire base on a small hill and flying above the base was a brilliant American Flag,a little piece of home in that terrible place,so if you are asking me to join you saluting it MG Pete Bosse my answer is resoundingly Yes Sir.!

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 31 at 2017 10:34 AM

SFC George Smith — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:34:05 -0400

great Piece and Ideal...
I almost always do anyway...
thanks for the recall of History

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Mar 31 at 2017 10:37 AM

1LT William Clardy — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:37:13 -0400

Protocols and courtesies are tradition-based, MG Peter Bosse, and traditions can evolve. All it takes is someone persistently nudging the norm. How many people remember that, long ago, Americans used to say the Pledge of Allegiance with a variation on the old Roman salute, except with the palm facing upward -- until someone decided that gesture was too reminiscent of the mid-century German version of hailing a leader.

And I'll gladly salute with you. To be honest, I've never felt comfortable placing my hand over my heart when a crisply executed hand salute feels more natural.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 11:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 11:29:39 -0400

I have also found myself in that situation at ballgames , I tend to stay at attn. and not salute these days. a couple of years ago I did salute and noticed people looking at me, one lady came to me after and asked if I was a service member then thanked me..................I don't salute these days as I don't want the attention it brings. Should I just get over it and whip it out?

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Mar 31 at 2017 12:11 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:11:36 -0400

I'm with you, MG Peter Bosse, but I'm old school and I go with the old ways, I guess. I know that it's legal to salute in civilian clothes, but based on my experiences previous to the new law, I'm more comfortable with my hand over my heart unless in uniform. My heart is "in the right place" though!

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 31 at 2017 12:16 PM

SGT David T. — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:16:32 -0400

While I do understand the sentiment and the intent, I will not salute using a military hand salute. I did not retire out of the service so, it would be awkward for me to render honors in that manner. That is simply my preference. I tend not to advertise outside of here or those close to me about my military service. I think rendering a hand salute would raise more questions than I feel like answering. I think the important thing is to show respect in some manner either hand over the heart or saluting for the military types.

Response by LCpl Stephen Arnold made Mar 31 at 2017 12:18 PM

LCpl Stephen Arnold — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:18:18 -0400

Signing on Sir.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 31 at 2017 12:54 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:54:50 -0400

If I am there and you salute, I have your back and will salute as well. If it is just me, I am probably going to place my hand over my heart and maybe give a couple evil glares to those talking or not taking the correct actions.

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made Mar 31 at 2017 2:37 PM

SSgt Robert Marx — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 14:37:33 -0400

Yes, sir, I will salute the national ensign. It means something special & intangible to be able to see the flag flutter with the breeze outdoors or remain lain beside the flagpole while inside. I recall a July 4 several years ago I saw the line of Old Glory's along the curb of the main street of my town. It seemed as though the flags were stationed in line. But then I saw one flag that had broken free of its clasp and the flag dipped into the gutter. I stopped my car, parked legally on the side of the street and ran over to fix that solitary flag. Afterward, I came to attention & saluted, made an about face, and ran back to my car so as to get to my job on time. I do not know the proper regulations on what should have been done but I am sure that I would do the same in the future.

Response by SFC George Sease made Mar 31 at 2017 3:07 PM

SFC George Sease — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 15:07:00 -0400

If I understand correctly, veterans can now salute the flag when she is present. This has just come about within the last 2 or 3 years. I now feel better that I can salute.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 3:43 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 15:43:19 -0400

I always recognize the flag. Often I salute. I have been doing so for a few years now. To me it just seems right.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 4:03 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 16:03:50 -0400

MG Peter Bosse Great post Sir, I fly the American and Marine Corps flags at my home. I proudly salute the American flag at events.

Response by Sgt George Lawrence made Mar 31 at 2017 6:07 PM

Sgt George Lawrence — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:07:26 -0400

I agree that it is part of our duty as members of the armed forces, active, retired or veterans to display our respect for the flag and our National Anthem. The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008 contained an amendment authorizing active, retired and veteran service members to render the hand salute not only during the raising or passing of our national flag, but also during the playing of the national anthem. However, as members of the Navy or Marine Corps are not permitted to salute in civilian attire, or indoors in uniform except when under arms, the Act may create some confusion for those of us in the Naval services. The then Commandant of the Marine Corps in 2008, General James Conway, issued an order clarifying the rule for Marines, and it is my understanding that the Chief of Naval Operations did as well: ALMAR 052/08 specified, and General Conway verbalized it, that (I'm paraphrasing now) "let me make it very clear, Marines do not salute when indoors except under arms... and never in civilian clothing; that has not changed..." Veteran Marines are still considered "Marines" (not former Marines, and never ex-Marines unless less than honorably discharged). So it appears his directive applies to all Marines, whether active, retired or prior service veterans. Considering myself a good Marine, having served for 8 years, I follow the rule of the Marine Corps, therefore I still do not salute; I do, however, stand at attention and place my hand over my heart. If I am wearing headgear, I remove it and hold it over my heart. I have to admit I am somewhat uncomfortable not joining all others at any event who are saluting. But that's part of being a Marine: we're a bit different sometimes (not better, not worse, just different). Thanks, General, Well written.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 31 at 2017 6:54 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:54:54 -0400

MG Peter Bosse "Oh say, can you see" = hand salute! And, a nudge to Mary Ann to put her right hand over her heart. She was always good at it, after additional training, she is better! Helping others to respond upon hearing, "Oh, say" is cumbersome.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 31 at 2017 7:07 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:07:10 -0400

At all of our Post Meetings as Commander of, American Legion, Post 208, Millis, MA With our pledge of Allegiance to the flag We salute the flag as well as recite the Pledge of Allegiance. We also have an empty chair with our seating at all meetings the back is covered with a POW Missing in action cover. We first have a moment of silence to remember those that could not be here in person with us but are here in spirit with their brothers and sisters after that the command present Arms is given followed by order arms and We proceed on this the next portion of the meeting.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Mar 31 at 2017 7:12 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:12:57 -0400

Maybe this is a post where Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance should be posted again. Notice what he does when the normal recitation of the Pledge is done. Listen to his lament at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM

Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2017 7:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:41:15 -0400

I agree with you MG Bosse. At some Rotary clubs I've visited I've noticed some of the members saluting the flag during the pledge of allegiance, but it seems to be a club-by-club variance. I've always liked the idea.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Mar 31 at 2017 7:54 PM

SGT Matthew S. — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:54:55 -0400

I am not typically at events or places where the flag passes indoors, but when the flag goes by in a parade I typically salute. As others have said, the National Defense Bill H.R. 1585 (2008) authorizes servicemembers not in uniform/veterans to salute if desired. To me, it feels more natural and I have never had an issue with it garnering attention.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2017 1:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 13:50:43 -0400

Sir,

"Optimism for me isn't a passive expectation that things will get better; it's a conviction that we can make things better" -Melinda Gates

Response by CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern made Apr 14 at 2017 2:51 PM

CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:51:56 -0400

The American Flag, It Is You

A symbol of respect, pride, and strength,
not to be ruffled, wadded, or soiled,
to be folded, unfurled, raised for all to see,
as in going into battle resounding victory.

Not to be tattered, torn, or burned in effigy,
rather a symbol of hope to those in bondage,
of hate for those who seek to enslave,
of patriotism to those who guard fiercely,
enshrined with those who died for liberty,
entrusted to each generation to decide its fate,
to be the most loved or most hated,
to be seen in every city, state, and on foreign soil,
wherever seen America is found.

No other symbol rises above or would be allowed,
representing freedom, recognized the world round,
a powerful adversary to an enemy
a gentle giant to those who are represented.

A symbol of red and white,
with fifty shining stars on a field of blue,
call it a flag,
in reality it is you.

Mac McGovern©2010

Response by PO2 Robert M. made Apr 15 at 2017 12:10 PM

PO2 Robert M. — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:10:03 -0400

GREAT POST GENERAL!!!
I was ALWAYS WILLING to stay out for Colors on base!!!
I Loved to SALUTE!!!.....Hearing "God Save the Queen" first, then our NATIONAL ANTHEM always gave me GOOSE BUMPS! ! ! !

Response by Jacob Hamilton made Apr 18 at 2017 5:51 AM

Jacob Hamilton — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 05:51:24 -0400

I do agree. I pop to the position of attention and present arms for the national flag at any event. There is a different feeling when you've had to salute the flag before, and I feel anymore that I should always salute the flag. I've received laughs, stares, and other ridicule for doing, but I do it anyway. I've had friends and family members die for that flag, and those laughing civilians don't know how it feels. When they've had to take possession of a flag at a family member's funeral, or whenever they've had to try and comfort a hysterical widow, then they won't laugh.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2017 9:24 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:24:52 -0400

Sir,
Maybe it's the time that makes one conform, but I agree with you totally. In a world that burns our flag, hates our country, and protests anything and everything, the real question for me is "What is the right thing to do?" My heart says stand at attention and salute the symbol of my Country. The very essence of why we spend countless time in the field, away from our families, eating whatever is available, and doing it all because we feel so strongly about protecting our Country, our loved ones, and those that can't defend themselves. We are protecting our way of life!! I guess as we get older and those around us get younger, it becomes unbearable to watch them take for granted the very things that we hold dear. We hold them dear because we know what it takes to keep them. Hold over heart or salute, your choice, but I agree that inside standing at attention without so much as an acknowledgement of Ol Glory, seems a little daft to me sir.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Apr 22 at 2017 4:22 PM

CPT Richard Riley — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:22:09 -0400

We have the right to salute and we should continue to utilize it.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Apr 22 at 2017 11:02 PM

1SG James Matthews — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:02:55 -0400

I do that now.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Apr 23 at 2017 4:02 PM

LTC John Mohor — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 16:02:54 -0400

MG Pete Bosse,

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2017 12:39 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:39:09 -0400

I'm all for saluting the flag whenever and wherever. If the regulation changes, I will happily comply. Personally though I do not salute when in civilian clothes at say, a ballgame or something. It makes me feel like I'm drawing attention to myself. That may be weird to some but I don't do what I do for the attention. I do however honor the flag and the National Anthem by placing my hand over my heart and remaining still. And I make sure my kids do the same.

Response by SPC Woody Bullard made Apr 25 at 2017 12:58 PM

SPC Woody Bullard — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:58:02 -0400

My wife and I attended University of Florida football games for 30 years and during the national anthem people in the stadium would stand including the football players on the sidelines. People who were not military veterans would remove their headgear and place their hand over their heart.
Military veterans had the option of leaving their headgear on and giving the military salute or removing the headgear and placing the hand over their heart. All uniformed law enforcement officers
in the stadium left their headgear on and gave the military salute. Many veterans at the stadium wore
a hat or cap with their service branch displayed and would give a military salute. Either way respect was shown to our nation's flag. The football players DID STAND for the national anthem!!

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made Apr 28 at 2017 11:54 AM

1LT Peter Duston — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:54:19 -0400

I think protocol says that in an assembled hall of all uniformed personnel, they stand at attention for the playing of the National Anthem but in a public crowd, we are authorized by DOD to salute whether in uniform or not. This morning as I met with a high school official during morning announcements and I heard the Pledge of Allegiance over the PA system, I called the office to rise and I gave my best salute during the recitation. Afterwards, I was able to educate the office on proper Flag etiquette and left feeling proud of my service.

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made Apr 28 at 2017 9:13 PM

CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 21:13:14 -0400

Sir, The most Important Issue With Our Nations most recognized Symbol is Absolute Respect to it Regardless of where it is or you are!!! Old School, if I'm covered, I'll salute!!! If not, I'll be at attention with my Right Hand Over My Heart and My Eyes on Old Glory!!! Doc Bradshaw

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 29 at 2017 5:31 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 17:31:19 -0400

I agree, they should have been brought to Attention then Present Arms. UNLESS, and here I am confused, it was a situation where the Commander salutes and the others remain at attention

Response by CPT James M Stewart made Apr 30 at 2017 9:09 AM

CPT James M Stewart — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:09:53 -0400

I find that today, there is that, 'oh well, I'll MAYBE salute but I'm OK with doing what I feel like doing at the moment'! That is part of the problem with this Country! I agree 100% that the flag is the SYMBOL of this Country and to salute is just what has been discussed. A Korean vet, I see a flag and it gets my attention, ALWAYS! Kept a flag hanging in front of my condo for years until I was penalized for it so had to take it down! They got the point, however!
Cpt. James M. Stewart

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made May 1 at 2017 9:37 PM

1LT Peter Duston — Mon, 01 May 2017 21:37:54 -0400

If you have doubts or second thoughts about saluting the Flag, read this memoir of mine - an experience that gives me the shivers every time I am reminded of what the late SGT Oscar Look Sr. USAAC, a Downeast Maine lobster fisherman related to me some years ago.

Oscar’s Flag
We stood on the steps of the old Post Office in Machias, Maine; me the Executive Director of the county Community Action Agency, headquartered in that building and he, a board member and WWII veteran. I knew that Oscar was a survivor of the Bataan Death March but no details, he never talked about that part of his life. I had just repaired and painted the old government flag pole and hung a halyard with a publicity plan to put up a Flag, first flag in many years over Main Street.
I thought that Oscar as a respected local veteran and lobster fisherman, might be interested in raising the Flag as part of the ceremony so I asked.
It was a grey gloomy day and we were just looking off into the distance over town. He was very quiet for a few moments, got a far off look in his eye then slowly and very softly responded: “No, I just couldn’t do it.” You see, Peter, after that damned “March” I was shipped to Northern Burma to a camp in the remote jungle. Our guys were dying like flies and by the end, we had lost 1,000’s to disease, malnutrition, torture and execution. One day at the end of the War, the camp guards just left and we were still dying. Because we were in such a remote place, rescue didn’t get to us right away so they sent C-47’s that dropped food and medical supplies. It was too late for some but they died free. Some of the guys gathered pieces of parachute and some other rags to fashion a crude American Flag that we raised over that camp. I will never forget those 5,000, sick, weak and some dying guys trying to stand at attention, holding each other up just to salute that Flag going up over their Hell. “No, I couldn’t do your Flag.”

Response by CPT Bob Mason made May 1 at 2017 10:58 PM

CPT Bob Mason — Mon, 01 May 2017 22:58:18 -0400

When I was on active service, I always felt it an honor to salute the flag. When I rejoined the civilian world, the loss of the salute was the loss of a privilege dearly felt. So I was gratified when the right to salute was extended to veterans during the Bush administration. Now I always salute even though I am the only "civilian" in the crowd to do so.

Response by CSM William DeWolf made May 2 at 2017 7:38 AM

CSM William DeWolf — Tue, 02 May 2017 07:38:41 -0400

HOOAH BG Pete Bosse!

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 10:47 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2017 22:47:15 -0400

Clothes and uniforms do not make a Marine, Soldier, Sailor or Airman it is in your Heart, Blood. Sweat and yes Tears. We have earned the right and Privilege to salute and I consider it an honor. I will always salute Old Glory and when the National Anthem is played, for myself and all those gone before.

Response by SPC Chuck Moseby made May 5 at 2017 8:51 PM

SPC Chuck Moseby — Fri, 05 May 2017 20:51:39 -0400

I agree your position completely. Although I only served two years, I still salute Our Flag, with all the respect it deserves.

Response by David Clark made May 7 at 2017 8:00 AM

David Clark — Sun, 07 May 2017 08:00:37 -0400

Any one that ever served should always salute the flag. Hand over the heart is to show respect for the men and women willing to give their lives to protect all Americans. And when I see you salute the flag even in civilian dress. You are always placed on a pedestal in my eye's. Does anyone really ever think about life like I do. There are so many people that want help other's with something as simple as pulling over to help someone out of gas on side of the road. And there are millions of soldiers that never will know me or my family or grand kids I am a total stranger to you. Your still willing to give your life so my family is safe. People in America block out all the bad going on in place around the world. They complain about their rights if they can't use them in some countries you can't be put in prison or killed for simply holding a sign or making a statement. Don't they understand what communism is are dictatorships. As always for the one's that died and the one's still in the fight to protect are rights freedom always in my prayers God Bless You All.

Response by Cpl Thomas Kifer made May 11 at 2017 12:11 PM

Cpl Thomas Kifer — Thu, 11 May 2017 12:11:13 -0400

I salute 100% indoors and out doors. When asked why, I just say...serve at lease two years in any branch of service and you'll understand. Why, can't be explained when emotions and history in involved. At least from my experience. SEMPER FI to all who have served and those who continue to serve.

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made May 11 at 2017 3:58 PM

PO3 Terry Miller — Thu, 11 May 2017 15:58:57 -0400

I was Navy and taught not to salute if uncovered. That was our culture and we took pride in that difference. To this day I carry my hat in my hand and put it on only when heading out the door. Although I see what you mean, I would feel very uncomfortable saluting uncovered indoors.

Response by SP5 Dave (Shotgun) Shockley made May 13 at 2017 4:52 PM

SP5 Dave (Shotgun) Shockley — Sat, 13 May 2017 16:52:56 -0400

MG Bosse you may count me in. Like you I have always felt a little strange just placing my hand over my heart. Also, like you the flag and the anthem touch my heart and almost bring tears each time. It just destroys me each time I read or see on the news Old Glory be defiled by the ingrates that enjoy the freedom of our country. My blood boils and my heart races each time this comes to my attention. I am just thankful that I live in a part of the country where this act of treason happens very rarely. I am not sure if I would react kindly to an individual should I see this happen in person. I would rather not spend time in jail, but it might be worth it. GOD bless America and Old Glory.

Response by SGT Mike Ange made May 18 at 2017 4:14 PM

SGT Mike Ange — Thu, 18 May 2017 16:14:15 -0400

Great post sir! I have already joined you and started a decade ago, always saluting the posting of the flag, etc, regardless of the occasion. I consider it both a privilege I have earned and an obligation that I gladly embrace. On more than one ocaission my hand salute has led to discussions with non-vets which provide an opportunity to educate on our core values. I will continue and hope to see many more join us.

Response by SGT James Wisejr made May 20 at 2017 12:59 AM

SGT James Wisejr — Sat, 20 May 2017 00:59:25 -0400

I agree, as a veteran I salute our flag at every event. I see it as privilege and a honor to do so !

Response by SGT James Wisejr made May 20 at 2017 1:02 AM

SGT James Wisejr — Sat, 20 May 2017 01:02:39 -0400

I agree

Response by Capt Tf Sinclair made May 20 at 2017 9:26 PM

Capt Tf Sinclair — Sat, 20 May 2017 21:26:05 -0400

I always salute Old Glory, always. Even when walking down the street and passing a flag, I salute. I can no longer stand as I am paraplegic but every time I pass a flag or the flag passes me, I salute. I salute because America took me in and made me one of her sons. I salute because I served more than twenty years in uniform. I salute because of all the men, some who are no longer here, that I knew who also served under that flag. This is my protocol. It is written nowhere but in my heart. Nuff said.

Response by PO1 Gregg Mundy made May 20 at 2017 11:17 PM

PO1 Gregg Mundy — Sat, 20 May 2017 23:17:51 -0400

Absolutely, 100%

Response by PO2 James Young made May 20 at 2017 11:59 PM

PO2 James Young — Sat, 20 May 2017 23:59:26 -0400

I agree wholeheartedly...and, a a navy vet (1966-1970), I have never failed to simply salute the flag...indoor or out...covered or not. I agree...let somebody criticize me if they will...I care not.

Response by SMSgt Mike Morrow made May 24 at 2017 1:36 PM

SMSgt Mike Morrow — Wed, 24 May 2017 13:36:30 -0400

Congress has already updated the flag protocol to make it optional for prior military to salute the flag and National Anthem (indoors or out) or they place their hands over their heart. This has been in effect for several years now.

Response by TSgt Porfirio Mata made May 25 at 2017 10:54 AM

TSgt Porfirio Mata — Thu, 25 May 2017 10:54:53 -0400

Absolutely! I will render the proper salute to the most beautiful flag in the entire world and what it stands for!

Response by SSG William Clizbe made May 28 at 2017 10:24 AM

SSG William Clizbe — Sun, 28 May 2017 10:24:54 -0400

Excuse me if I'm wrong. but Ibelieve that a few years ago the congress updated the resolution that concerns how we respect our flag by approving those very same things you are concerned about. Every veteran of our armed forces is now given the right to salute during the Pledge of Allegiance or whenever the flag is presented. I take advantage of that right each time I'm presented with a situation that calls for it. SSG William Clizbe, USA (Ret)

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made May 30 at 2017 7:30 PM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Tue, 30 May 2017 19:30:12 -0400

Sir, I have pondered the same question as a civilian. I still am very much patriotic and still a US Marine in my mind and heart. I stand and start to salute Old Glory, but end up putting my right hand over my heart. During the Nationional Anthem, I just stand at attention. Frustrated inside, I still feel the urge to salute. I want to Maintain proper etiquette. Sir, I am going to follow the Major General's lead, and salute also. It may not be protocol in civilian attire, but it certainly is not disrespect, Sir. It may inspire others that are struggling with the same. Thanking The General for the article, Sir!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 1:34 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 May 2017 13:34:41 -0400

Sir, I Commend you on your article and I agree hold heartedly. I have been retired from the Marine Corps going on 24 years now and I always recognize and salute our Nation Old Glory. No matter what, when, and where. I've never question the reason why for doing what we all do, just why not. Also coming from the enlisted men and women ranks to a Chief Warrant Officer, I still salute any member of our Armed Forces while entering any military installations anytime. The DOD, says that we Retired Personnel don't need any Military Sticker indicating our differences between an Officer or an Enlisted. Well I beg to differ but it only makes sense because of the activities that we have currently in our Nation. Why is it that we only care some of the time but not all the time? Why is it that we only here about how our government leaders are so screwed up but we don't look within ourselves first. Like I said earlier, I commend you for what you believe in and why. I will join you and many others who fought for our "Old Glory" and what she stands for, our freedom.

Semper Fidelis General,

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Jun 5 at 2017 3:32 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Mon, 05 Jun 2017 15:32:22 -0400

One of the confounders is the difference in practices of the services. We (Navy), Marines, and Coast Guard uncover while indoors, and don't salute uncovered. We stand at attention, plain and simple (in the military mode). The civilian mode is the "hand over the heart" procedure. I guess as veterans we have the choice - but rendering the hand salute while uncovered just doesn't seem right to me.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Jun 6 at 2017 10:56 AM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 10:56:53 -0400

Nobody will ever ridicule you for saluting the flag my friend!!! Hooah!

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jun 11 at 2017 3:51 AM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 03:51:06 -0400

IMO we should render a salute- we, as veterans, did what other civilians chose not to do. Old Glory already means something special to us- we have already "stepped away from the pack" so to speak. Why not set ourselves apart visually again? I'm with you 150% Sir
S/F

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Jun 11 at 2017 11:24 AM

SGT Tim Fridley — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 11:24:26 -0400

I have done both but putting my hand over my heart does feel a bit awkward to me after 26 years in the active and guard components

Response by CPT Phil Roberge made Jun 12 at 2017 9:36 AM

CPT Phil Roberge — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:36:23 -0400

Rules for Rendering Hand Salute of U.S. Flag
Law Now Allows Retirees and Vets to Salute Flag
Traditionally, members of the nation's veterans service organizations have rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag only while wearing their organization’s official head-gear.

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008 contained an amendment to allow un-uniformed servicemembers, military retirees, and veterans to render a hand salute during the hoisting, lowering, or passing of the U.S. flag.

A later amendment further authorized hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel. This was included in the Defense Authorization Act of 2009, which President Bush signed on Oct. 14, 2008.

Here is the actual text from the law:

SEC. 595. MILITARY SALUTE FOR THE FLAG DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES NOT IN
UNIFORM AND BY VETERANS.

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by
striking subparagraphs (A) through (C) and inserting the following new
subparagraphs:
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally render a salute while in uniform.

Response by LTC Dom Dionne made Jun 15 at 2017 2:50 PM

LTC Dom Dionne — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:50:59 -0400

Veterans and active-duty military not in uniform can now render the military-style hand salute during the playing of the national anthem, thanks to changes in federal law that took effect this month.

“The military salute is a unique gesture of respect that marks those who have served in our nation’s armed forces,” said Secretary of Veterans Affairs Dr. James B. Peake. “This provision allows the application of that honor in all events involving our nation’s flag.”

The new provision improves upon a little known change in federal law last year that authorized veterans to render the military-style hand salute during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, but it did not address salutes during the national anthem. Last year’s provision also applied to members of the armed forces while not in uniform.

Traditionally, members of the nation’s veterans service organizations have rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag while wearing their organization’s official head-gear.

The most recent change, authorizing hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel, was sponsored by Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, an Army veteran. It was included in the Defense Authorization Act of 2009, which President Bush signed on Oct. 14.

The earlier provision authorizing hand-salutes for veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, was contained in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, which took effect Jan. 28, 2008.

https://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609

News Releases - Office of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs

Latest news released by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Response by SGT David Vernon made Jun 17 at 2017 4:12 AM

SGT David Vernon — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 04:12:16 -0400

Agree 100%

Response by TSgt Kenneth Hancock made Jun 17 at 2017 11:37 PM

TSgt Kenneth Hancock — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 23:37:04 -0400

2nd on the salute!!

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Jun 18 at 2017 4:20 AM

SGT Bryan O'Reilly — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 04:20:07 -0400

I wish more folks felt the same way sir. I believe we should strive to instill American pride in every American starting with the pledge and the constitution, and to teach our kids how important this beacon of freedom is to all free people. Not just America, but the free world. Why our own constitution and history (to include small arms safety,) are not a requisite part of our education is inexcusable. IMO. You are on the right track with regards to grass movement And I think every American citizen should be able to pass a citizenship test by the time they graduate High School. I believe that until we restore the draft and every American has 'skin-in-the-game' not necessarily in the military, but a period of public service. this will only worsen. We are provided with a blanket of freedom and security to us by the sacrifices of others. Yet there is no requirement for the citizen to know the document we have pledged our lives to defend. As a result, people begin to believe that what we have does not need defense. They need to be reminded what Old Glory stands for I promise to be more proactive in this dept, sir, Thanks for the reminder!
<3

Response by SGT Peter Hayes made Jun 19 at 2017 2:22 PM

SGT Peter Hayes — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:22:46 -0400

As a vet I always salute the flag 100% of the times . I once was asked why and explained that I am a vet and always salute out or respect for our nation and for all our services members past and present

Response by SPC Jim Johnson made Jun 20 at 2017 7:28 PM

SPC Jim Johnson — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:28:11 -0400

I do either depending on the situation. During military funerals I always salute. During events, I will place my hand over my heart. I always have and will continue to respect Old Glory.

Response by MSG Tim Donahue, M.Ed. made Jun 21 at 2017 8:47 AM

MSG Tim Donahue, M.Ed. — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:47:44 -0400

My wife and I - with a combined 40 years of service - salute - inside and out

Response by Sgt Deborah Cornatzer made Jun 21 at 2017 9:02 AM

Sgt Deborah Cornatzer — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:02:23 -0400

Salute...absolutely Salute! Thank you MG Peter Bosse very well said.

Response by TSgt James OSail made Jun 23 at 2017 7:31 PM

TSgt James OSail — Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:31:44 -0400

Being in the Air Force for 22 plus years, being in the Air Police/Security Police I raised and lowered our flag many many times. It always placed a lump in my Heart and tears in my eyes. Today every time I hear and see retreat being conducted I get out of my car and salute. I am very proud of my flag and my country. God Bless each of you reading this and God Bless America.

Response by PO2 Richard C. made Jun 26 at 2017 10:32 AM

PO2 Richard C. — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:32:24 -0400

It is amazing to me the number of veterans who do not know that a hand salute is authorized for veterans in civilian clothes. I rendered a hand salute at my granddaughter's high school graduation (outdoors) and another vet afterwards told me it wasn't proper except for active military or first responders in uniform. (I was wearing a veteran ball-cap.) I told him the rule was changed in 2008 and suggested he google the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008. I will admit, it did feel awkward at first, but now comes naturally. I still place my hand over my heart indoors because that feels right, but would happily support the concept of modifying "tradition" to a single practice of hand salutes both indoors and outdoors.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jun 28 at 2017 10:56 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:56:32 -0400

You had me at Old Glory. Operation "Bring Back the Salute"...I'm in, Sir.

Response by PO2 Gerry Roberson Sr. made Jun 29 at 2017 8:55 PM

PO2 Gerry Roberson Sr. — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 20:55:05 -0400

Veterans should ALWAYS salute--but that's just lil' ole me.

Response by GySgt Lindsey William made Jun 29 at 2017 9:41 PM

GySgt Lindsey William — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 21:41:53 -0400

Sir, I am along side of you and rendering a hand salute. I retired in Dec of 95 and was not aware of National Defense Bill H.R. 1585 2008 gives amended saluting rules for veterans and military in civilian clothes till reading CPO Bill Penrod's comment on this topic. I'm currently employed on a MCAS and felt uneasy during colors not rendering a hand salute.

Response by SSG Donald Gallaway made Jul 1 at 2017 12:28 PM

SSG Donald Gallaway — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 12:28:58 -0400

Well said sir, I am just an old NCO.. At a club meeting I am part of we say the pledge I salute the flag. The flag passes by I salute.. ect. I am proud of my Flag and my country also of my service to it. As little as it was.. And I will continue to do it.. I for one will join you.. Thank you for your opinion.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Jul 2 at 2017 3:37 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 15:37:11 -0400

Was the reg changed very recently on saluting in civilian clothes? Seem like I saw something on that.

Response by MAJ Deanna Sinclair-Parker made Jul 3 at 2017 11:44 AM

MAJ Deanna Sinclair-Parker — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:44:48 -0400

I always have, always will! Retired since 2004. US Army/US Army Reserve , Army National Guard.

Response by SPC Robert Stewart made Jul 5 at 2017 3:23 PM

SPC Robert Stewart — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 15:23:03 -0400

I do alot of funerals for veterans for the Patriot Guard standing in flag lines inside and out.I do not care if anybody likes it or not when the Flag comes by i salute.I always salute at games or any other function for the National Anthem.Thats just me i am proud of my service and my country.

Response by SGT Dustin McBride made Jul 6 at 2017 4:14 PM

SGT Dustin McBride — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:14:23 -0400

definitely!!! very well said

Response by MSgt Randy Martin made Jul 7 at 2017 5:40 PM

MSgt Randy Martin — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:40:40 -0400

"The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008 contained an amendment to allow un-uniformed service-members, military retirees, and veterans to render a hand salute during the hoisting, lowering, or passing of the U.S. flag. A later amendment further authorized hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans."
I salute during the national anthem and any flag ceremony because the above says I can. I feel I have earned that right as a veteran.

Response by PO1 Rudy Dowdy made Jul 8 at 2017 12:21 AM

PO1 Rudy Dowdy — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 00:21:14 -0400

President Bush. Brought into law. Vets can salute the flag anytime we fill the need. Inside or out. Covered or not. Just stand tall a pop a salute as proper as your body will let you. So i give mine every chance I get. I was ask at a boy scout camp why I did not use the scout salute. I said to many years of military service. My fingers just don't fill right folded over in a salute.

Response by HN Kathleen M Peck made Jul 9 at 2017 1:59 PM

HN Kathleen M Peck — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:59:08 -0400

Thank you MG Pete Bosse and SGT Philip Roncari, yes I will take up this challenge and salute Old Glory at the next event I attend.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Jul 9 at 2017 2:07 PM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:07:51 -0400

I agree 100% As a veteran we have earned the right to salute Old Glory indoors and out. Let the civilians who have never served place their hand over their heart I for one will salute as we all should. I even feel the pledge of allegiance also warrants a salute from those who served.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Jul 9 at 2017 2:15 PM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:15:07 -0400

We as veterans have earned the right to salute Old Glory both indoors and out covered or uncovered. I for one shall do so at every opportunity and I will also salute during the Pledge of Allegiance. Congress has approved a bill which allows veterans to render the salute. Veterans don't need approval to salute, We earned that right. Let's make it 100%

Response by SGT James Szewczyk made Jul 9 at 2017 7:53 PM

SGT James Szewczyk — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:53:24 -0400

I'm with ya General. As a retired federal law enforcement officer I am always 'under arms' but will render the hand salute when appropriate. Great idea !

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Jul 9 at 2017 11:25 PM

SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 23:25:12 -0400

Great post, Sir. I do rise, and salute. I have seen other veterans do the same. Nothing wrong with it. In my mind, and heart, I'm still a soldier. Thank you for your service, Sir. Blessings.

Response by SPC Keith Lindsey made Jul 10 at 2017 12:38 PM

SPC Keith Lindsey — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:38:11 -0400

I already do this. I salute the flag even when it's on TV, like before a football game starts. My wife used to think it was kinda dumb, but now she thinks it's kinda cool. It's just who I've become since I separated from the military almost 30 years ago. I also go out of my way to thank other vets, current military, police, fire and EMS for their service. To me, it's only right.

Response by SGT James Wisejr made Jul 10 at 2017 1:57 PM

SGT James Wisejr — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:57:39 -0400

I Agree Sir !

Response by SGT Louis Smith made Jul 11 at 2017 3:43 PM

SGT Louis Smith — Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:43:03 -0400

Long winded but I agree we should be saluting 100%of the Time

Response by SFC Charles Woods made Jul 12 at 2017 8:18 PM

SFC Charles Woods — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:18:22 -0400

I have popped to since I retired in 1979.Could not salute then,Code was not changed until 2008 as others have pointed out.Now that hand salute is permitted for retirees I still cannot render proper honors.I always pop to and remain standing,but an accident in 1994 cost me my right arm.(A.E amputee) So I do what I can and get some funny stares.Way I see it if you served no explanation is needed,I you did not serve no explanation is possible.I read a book once that explaned the tap code the the guests in the Hanoi Hilton used.One code was used to tap out GN-GBA so will close out with that.

Response by AN Christopher Crayne made Jul 13 at 2017 5:39 AM

AN Christopher Crayne — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 05:39:47 -0400

Thank you for sharing your view. I'm not going to attempt to add. You said it perfectly Sir. God bless.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 13 at 2017 6:10 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 06:10:20 -0400

I salute the flag at all parade, and at our annual fair opening, can't say much for some of the other vets I know.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jul 13 at 2017 7:39 AM

SSgt Holden M. — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:39:25 -0400

I totally agree with you, it always felt weird to not salute. It's not like when you are indoors that you will hit somebody next to you with your elbow. I haven't had to be standing so close that I would have to worry about that. But it is within regulations that all veterans are allowed to salute whenever they would like and especially allowed to salute the flag. I'm personally a little split about what I should do because I have a 6 and 4 year old and my wife and I are really big about making sure they know proper respect for old glory. I think it would be cute to watch them copy me and salute the flag but also them putting their hand over their heart is the proper salute from them until they decide if they want to serve in the military.

Response by TSgt Lars Eilenfeld made Jul 13 at 2017 12:46 PM

TSgt Lars Eilenfeld — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:46:28 -0400

Of Course

Response by TSgt James OSail made Jul 13 at 2017 2:04 PM

TSgt James OSail — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:04:14 -0400

I am very Proud to. God Bless America.

Response by PO1 James Friedman made Jul 13 at 2017 8:51 PM

PO1 James Friedman — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:51:18 -0400

Always
This old sailor was trained that way and it just comes naturally. It's automatic.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jul 14 at 2017 4:24 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:24:03 -0400

Old Glory I stand and salute you. -Margaret C. Higgins U. S. Army Retired

Response by MAJ Deanna Sinclair-Parker made Jul 14 at 2017 11:56 PM

MAJ Deanna Sinclair-Parker — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:56:07 -0400

To me it's the most natural reflect I have after 23 years of service, like you: active duty, national guard, army reserve. It just doesn't seem right to put my hand over my heart. I'm with you Sir!

Response by SSG Mark Vance made Jul 15 at 2017 12:07 AM

SSG Mark Vance — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 00:07:36 -0400

Interesting that you brought this up ... during this last Independence day I made that same decision. Guess as I get older it is easier for me to stick to one thing that I feel comfortable with and can remember. I am with ya!

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Jul 17 at 2017 11:33 AM

SGT Ronald Audas — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:33:47 -0400

An interesting story about Old Glory.Many years ago I was attending a Veterans Day parade in the small town of Beloit,Ks.There was an abundance of WW ll veterans in attendance.People were handing out small flags to wave as the parade passed.I noticed the elderly gentleman next to me throw his flag on the ground.Pretty soon there were flags on the ground all up and down the route.Lesson learned;Take the Made in China sticker off 'Ol Glory

Response by SGT Sherrie Fanning made Jul 22 at 2017 7:55 PM

SGT Sherrie Fanning — Sat, 22 Jul 2017 19:55:19 -0400

I would be proud to salute Old Glory.

Response by LTC Julian Carnes made Jul 27 at 2017 11:38 AM

LTC Julian Carnes — Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:38:07 -0400

General, I have been challenged a couple of times by wise guys who said I wasn't authorized to salute in civvies. I begged to differ. Here is my justification:
https://www.thebalance.com/saluting-in-civilian-clothes-3356980

Rules for Veterans Saluting in Civilian Clothes

Overview of saluting rules and history for Veterans and military personnel when they are not in uniform.

Response by SSG Bruce Booker made Jul 27 at 2017 9:17 PM

SSG Bruce Booker — Thu, 27 Jul 2017 21:17:09 -0400

Old habits die hard. When I separated from active duty in 1972, the United States Flag Code said that veterans and military personnel in civilian clothes would honor the flag by placing their right hand over their heart. The same was true for the national anthem. The Code was amended in 2008, allowing us to render a proper hand salute for the flag even though we are not in uniform. It was amended again in 2009 to allow a hand salute for the national anthem. I have found that a lot of other veterans are not aware of the changes. I prefer a proper salute, but what really matters to me is that people show proper respect to the flag that I fought for and that friends died for.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Aug 5 at 2017 5:03 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 05:03:16 -0400

Well, I had to google this, of course, being a retired Chief Petty Officer.

Turns out that about a decade or so ago, Section 301 (b)(1) of Title 36 USC was amended to read as follows:

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at their left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

There's a note in the article I read this from which says Part (C) apples to those not in the military and non-veterans, that the phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighers, etc who might normally render a salute while in uniform.

However, I didn't see any such clarification in the United States Code when I looked it up. So that, in my opinion, is just the opinion of those who wrote the article I read unless someone can show me this in writing elsewhere.

REGARDLESS...the point is to render honors to the flag appropriately. Whether this is by salute or by hand over the heart as a veteran makes no difference to me, so long as it's respectfully done.

However, I think I may just shift to the salute at the next ball game we attend just to see what my wife says. It'll be cool to cite 36 USD Section 301 to her over this, the Scout Leader that she is!

Response by SFC James Asbill made Aug 11 at 2017 5:13 AM

SFC James Asbill — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 05:13:00 -0400

Thank you ..

Response by SN Richard Dell made Aug 14 at 2017 1:05 AM

SN Richard Dell — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 01:05:55 -0400

Yes I do this at all events now

Response by SR Adrian Johnson made Aug 14 at 2017 7:54 PM

SR Adrian Johnson — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 19:54:03 -0400

#Colinkaepernick #Blacklivesmatter

Response by SPC Todd Rhoades made Aug 15 at 2017 8:55 PM

SPC Todd Rhoades — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 20:55:26 -0400

I am glad I'm not the only one who has been confused. Should I, is it disrespectful to those who serve, should I uncover first or not at all. I do on occasion render one to a fellow vet and almost always one at the casket of a deceased vet. I am in brother, she will get a salute from me every time henceforth.

Response by SSG William Morton made Aug 17 at 2017 3:57 PM

SSG William Morton — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:57:46 -0400

I salute Old Glory and during the National Anthem 100% of the time, indoors or out. I thought all of that got cleared up when POTUS G. W. Bush gave veterans back the RIGHT to salute? This is one right I EARNED, and will exercise it every time the opportunity presents itself!

Response by SFC William Farrell made Aug 20 at 2017 11:43 PM

SFC William Farrell — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:43:08 -0400

Thank you MG Peter Bosse I agree with you 100%. I have your back.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Aug 21 at 2017 10:36 AM

CPT Chris Loomis — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:36:02 -0400

I salute the flag IAW with the regs.

I was at a local city's "Concert In The Park" recently and when the National Anthem was played I presented arms to salute our flag. When I looked around I noted I wasn't alone and that there were several other SM's that had done the same, including my Father.

(On a personal note: my sons all soon rigidly at attending with their hands and hats over their heart.... unlike many kids irreverently running around and screaming. I was proud of my family.)

Response by SGT Charles H. Hawes made Aug 21 at 2017 5:36 PM

SGT Charles H. Hawes — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:36:50 -0400

I will stand with you!

Response by SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson made Aug 21 at 2017 5:37 PM

SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:37:34 -0400

Always! When the law/ref changed it was wonderful to be able to once again salute! Got some funny looks a few times - many seem to still have trouble with women also being veterans even after all these years. My dad was a lifer - it bugged him to not be able to legally salute, too. Kinda wish he'd been around when that change occurred

Response by SP5 Jeannie Carle made Sep 10 at 2017 3:20 PM

SP5 Jeannie Carle — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:20:18 -0400

This reminds me of the very first time I was confronted with this problem. First time home, having completed Basic and AIT. It was Fair time in my home-town - I was, of course, in my dress greens, very VERY proud and with my Mom. Hmmm - knowing we were required to salute every flag --- walking down the street - 3 flags per block - 10 blocks. I did what I was taught to do, but the next time I came to town, I WAS in civvies. I always wondered if I was truly expected to salute every single flag.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Sep 19 at 2017 9:52 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:52:09 -0400

I remember when George Bush approved the measure allowing salutes in civilian attire and I remember a lot of active duty and veterans both griping that it was unprofessional. I couldn't see why. I was at a parade once and saw the color guard come down the street and watched as those who I knew to be veterans removed their covers and put them over their hearts, while cililians stood next to them still covered, many talking and and showing not one iota of respect. Then across from me some older vets stood and saluted. Those around them stopped and looked and then placed their hands on their hearts. It was as if someone grabbed them and shook them for a moment...or shamed them. Either way... I saluted...and I'll keep on saluting.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 2:23 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:23:37 -0400

As noted by Chief Penrod previously, "National Defense Bill H.R. 1585 2008, (Sec. 594) Allows members and veterans who are present but not in uniform during the hoisting, lowering, or passing of the flag to render the military salute." So stand proudly, covered or uncovered, indoors or out, and Salute Old Glory and those who paid the ultimate price to defend her

Response by LTC Philip Peck made Sep 25 at 2017 9:22 AM

LTC Philip Peck — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 09:22:17 -0400

Now more than ever, we need to always stand and salute. We need to show our pride, courage and conviction. We represent the greatest Country on the face of the earth. We need to set the example. Listen to this link of Joshua Chamberlain speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2_zeJTJcw
He captures the essence of America in a few short minutes.
It is up to us to instill pride in America.
Stay strong and courageous!
Thanks.

Colonel Joshua Chamberlain Speech.wmv

Colonel Joshua Chamberlain gives his speech to the deserters of the old 2nd Maine, hoping to inspire them to join his depleted unit in the upcoming battles a...

Response by SPC Kristina Robinson made Oct 2 at 2017 8:53 PM

SPC Kristina Robinson — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 20:53:54 -0400

I have been out since 03, i still stand and will forever salute when our national anthem plays. My time in service may not have been long but my patriotism was long before and will continue forevermore

Response by LCDR Peter Tonnessen made Oct 4 at 2017 9:23 AM

LCDR Peter Tonnessen — Wed, 04 Oct 2017 09:23:32 -0400

I thought that Navy saluted ONLY in uniform and under cover, which meant outdoors only. When not in uniform (including cover) it's hand (or hat) over the heart. Other services had different rules for remaining covered indoors and/or saluting while uncovered. That's what I recall. Whatever we do, we should FOLLOW THE RULES. Discipline is part service. If DoD wants to publish a uniform (sic) standard for all the services and all military personnel -- active, reserve, retired and veteran -- then do it, and MAKE IT PUBLIC, and let's all do it together.

Response by 1SG Richard Wright made Oct 6 at 2017 12:39 PM

1SG Richard Wright — Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:39:16 -0400

I have read where H.R. 1585 passed the House and the Senate, but what I saw says it was vetoed by the President. I'm trying to research this and can't seem to find anything. Can someone point me in the right direction? BTW I would/will gladly salute our Flag, if authorized to.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey S. made Oct 7 at 2017 6:44 AM

PO2 Jeffrey S. — Sat, 07 Oct 2017 06:44:32 -0400

I have and always will salute the American Flag and whenever the National Anthem is played. I was at an event for 9/11 and when the MC asked the crowd to remove there hats. As a veteran I always wear my Navy Veteran hat. I rendered a Salute when the Anthem was played. After a couple of ladies came over to me and asked why I did not remove my hat. I explained to her that our government has made it a law that Veterans can render a salute while wearing a hat. They thanked me for my service and the information. Made my night.

Response by SMSgt Bill Gates made Oct 8 at 2017 10:05 PM

SMSgt Bill Gates — Sun, 08 Oct 2017 22:05:33 -0400

So just today I see a picture where Vice President Pense and his wife are at an Indianapolis Colts game, standing at attention with their right hands over their hearts for the playing of the National Anthem. To their right there appears to be a military officer in uniform standing at attention. He is not wearing his uniform hat so I'm assuming that the event is considered an "indoor" ceremony. By regulation, is he correct by not saluting during the playing of our National Anthem?

Response by PO3 Martin Self made Oct 9 at 2017 1:30 PM

PO3 Martin Self — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:30:28 -0400

I was recently at a Duqusene University football game, where as a U.S. Navy Hospital Corpsman wearing my navy veterans ball cap. Was asked to all Military & Veterans to stand and be recognized for our service.....as I scanned the crowd there in the stadium only a few of us out of hundreds of people was standing tall.....I felt very special of such a small group. Then they National Anthem played we all rendered a smart hand salute in unison covered and uncovered. Neither team came out on the field until after the anthem played....

Response by MAJ William Cussins made Oct 10 at 2017 5:25 PM

MAJ William Cussins — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:25:59 -0400

As a retired officer, it's simple. Old Glory get's my respect, and my salute, 100% of the time.

Response by LT Richard Mondak made Oct 19 at 2017 10:19 AM

LT Richard Mondak — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:19:56 -0400

I stand with you. I salute with you.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Oct 20 at 2017 5:58 PM

TSgt James Carson — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:58:31 -0400

Respecting ur flag is like respecting your parents, families, friends, neighbors, and those who stood with you in battle or on the line. It's a most important courtesy like shaking hands or waving at people. Or respecting yourself by obeying customs and courtesies. Some people, unfortunately aren't raised to respect anything or anyone,, let alone themselves. I know I would not want them watching my back or those I lead. It's so sad young people are only interested in fame and fortune. They haven't earned respect or will they ever. Oh they'll have followers until they fade away into the darkness of past deeds. Respect is a life long admittance that we are in this life together and I have your back.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Oct 23 at 2017 1:45 PM

TSgt James Carson — Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:45:11 -0400

Every generation has their moments with our flag. I remember during a few retreats being nearly run down by some junior officers and airmen. I yelled at them to halt, and honor the flag, got the finger and they ran for cover. It takes real insight and dedication to do the right thing. At times it was inconvenient to stop and render the salute at attention, but it is the proper thing to do and must be obeyed.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Oct 26 at 2017 8:50 PM

TSgt James Carson — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 20:50:34 -0400

Thanks for your response. I get worked up when I see these snowflakes failing to observe courtesies that have existed in in our country since it's beginnings. People aren't raised correctly anymore. They want respect without earning it or returning it.

Response by SSG Thomas Felts Sr. made Oct 29 at 2017 6:45 PM

SSG Thomas Felts Sr. — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 18:45:24 -0400

I still to this day if I walk near a flag on a pole render the salute as I meet it till I pass it.

Response by SFC James Marchinke made Nov 1 at 2017 7:38 AM

SFC James Marchinke — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 07:38:34 -0400

Bottom Line: Saluting is the proper respect to Old Glory at all times indoors and out; no matter the regulation respect is respect and saluting is the highest Honor one can and should render to her!!

Response by Sgt Daniel Brunner made Nov 4 at 2017 2:29 PM

Sgt Daniel Brunner — Sat, 04 Nov 2017 14:29:04 -0400

Response by CMSgt John Green made Nov 6 at 2017 10:09 PM

CMSgt John Green — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 22:09:45 -0500

I’m with you brother. I always salute indoors and out. When I post my flag every morning and take her down at night, I always give her the honor she deserves. Chief Master Sargent USAF 30 plus year veteran.

Response by PFC Robert Rice made Nov 7 at 2017 1:57 AM

PFC Robert Rice — Tue, 07 Nov 2017 01:57:41 -0500

I don't know what the rules on this type of thing would be but I have done this since I left the military. I do it out of respect for country and flag. Many people have asked me why I do this and I just tell them respect.

Response by PO1 Christine Pawley made Nov 15 at 2017 10:39 AM

PO1 Christine Pawley — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:39:43 -0500

If I'm not mistaken there is a now in place where veterans are able to salute whether covered or not. The VFW fought for it.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Nov 15 at 2017 1:54 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:54:02 -0500

Count me in.

Response by SFC Butch Hansen made Nov 17 at 2017 5:50 AM

SFC Butch Hansen — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 05:50:27 -0500

IF you read the flag protocol signed into law by president bush (43) you will see that all veterans of the service are in fact allowed and to salute the flag for the anthem or the pledge or presentation of colors.

Response by SFC Butch Hansen made Nov 17 at 2017 5:53 AM

SFC Butch Hansen — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 05:53:18 -0500

All persons present in uniform (military, police, fire, etc.) should render the military salute. Members of the armed forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute.

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Nov 26 at 2017 11:28 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:28:06 -0500

100% of the time sounds right to me!!! Two combat tours in Vietnam!! 18 Months in five Military Hospitals earns me the right to salute when I choose!!!

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Nov 27 at 2017 12:35 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:35:49 -0500

I've been saluting Old Glory in every respectful way since forever........

Response by MSG Nicolas Montano made Nov 28 at 2017 4:07 PM

MSG Nicolas Montano — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:07:55 -0500

I've always saluted our flag. Congress passed a motion that all veterans would be allowed to salute our flag (indoors/outdoors) during the National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance.

Response by CW3 Paul Fitch made Dec 2 at 2017 3:31 PM

CW3 Paul Fitch — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 15:31:14 -0500

I agree 1000% and here's some info on that very subject. http://gmasw.com/salute.htm

Retirees and Vets Allowed to Salute US Flag

Response by MSgt Thomas Mason made Dec 11 at 2017 8:57 AM

MSgt Thomas Mason — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:57:55 -0500

I just found a new "Best Friend"! Never met him, don't know his history - he's definitely within my closest circle of friends and someone I would like to "repose next to when I'm gone"! I have a torn, dirty American Flag at home that I keep in a large plastic flag. When the wife saw it stored in the closet she wanted to know why I hadn't burned it! It's a "BATTLE FLAG" and deserves to be preserved. It's been somewhere - and done something for me and those I served with.

Response by PO2 Rich Collingwood made Dec 24 at 2017 12:28 PM

PO2 Rich Collingwood — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 12:28:25 -0500

It felt a little odd the first few times I saluted without a cover or with a ball cap and not a uniform cover, BUT it sure felt good! I love watching all us old Vets standing a saluting EVERY American Flag that goes by in a parade. Let’s show the civilians how it’s done - total respect for the symbol of our country!

Response by Lt Col Bill Fletcher made Dec 30 at 2017 8:19 AM

Lt Col Bill Fletcher — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:19:20 -0500

You may certainly salute the Flag inside, outside covered or uncovered as your dress allows. I feel comfortable doing so and apparently so do your, others may not so they don't have to so long as they are not in uniform.

Response by A1C Connie Moffitt made Jan 3 at 2018 1:58 PM

A1C Connie Moffitt — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 13:58:11 -0500

I would think that the salute should be rendered indoors or out by active duty and veterans alike.

Response by PO2 Michael Berry made Jan 4 at 2018 4:21 AM

PO2 Michael Berry — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 04:21:51 -0500

As someone in an earlier post stated traditions naturally evolve. I too will help with this evolution and start saluting the flag instead of putting my right hand over my heart which feels more natural when out of uniform. Too everyone out there just do what you are comfortable with. Changes always start with just 1 or a few doing something different.

By the way MG Pete Bosse, like you I am hard core in my beliefs on how the National Anthem sung and United States Flag is handled, furthermore what Americans should be doing during these events that I have a hard time dealing with those that disrespect those events because I take that disrespect personally and it is not a freedom that we serve or have served for.

Sorry to all about going off on a tangent about disrespect but I feel that the original discussion missed that 1 important issue.

Response by PV2 Terry Agee made Jan 4 at 2018 2:46 PM

PV2 Terry Agee — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 14:46:59 -0500

None finer! Consider it done.

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Jan 7 at 2018 10:53 PM

Lt Col Warren Domke — Sun, 07 Jan 2018 22:53:34 -0500

Sir: I like the idea. I am retired Air Force with Air National Guard, active Air Force and Air Force Reserve service. While the salute as a custom is generally rendered only when in uniform, I believe the custom was not always practiced that way. We should voluntarily salute, whether covered or uncovered, in or out of uniform when rendering honors to our flag. And, in fact, we should never be ashamed or embarrassed in doing so. Thank you for your leadership. I shall try to follow it.

Response by MSG Charles Turner made Feb 8 at 2018 4:55 PM

MSG Charles Turner — Thu, 08 Feb 2018 16:55:43 -0500

Everyday! The Stars and Stripes flies outside our home Everyday...

Response by MAJ Edwin Webster made Feb 12 at 2018 4:26 AM

MAJ Edwin Webster — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 04:26:24 -0500

I will continue to salute 100% of the time.

Response by SFC Leo Mares made Jun 2 at 2018 2:58 PM

SFC Leo Mares — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:58:35 -0400

I agree totally

Response by A1C Connie Moffitt made Jun 4 at 2018 8:44 PM

A1C Connie Moffitt — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 20:44:13 -0400

I salute Old Glory. It was my understanding that as veterans we are supposed to salute. My feeling, if you wish to salute, do so.

Response by SGM Gregory Tarancon IV made Nov 9 at 2018 7:38 PM

SGM Gregory Tarancon IV — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:38:55 -0500

Sir, your spot on!

Response by SrA John Monette made Nov 9 at 2018 8:04 PM

SrA John Monette — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 20:04:06 -0500

General, a few years ago, a directive came out that said all Veterans can render a salute for the colors and the National Anthem. I find myself a little self conscious when I do that, but I do it nonetheless. in fact, the first time I did it, my sons were with me. my youngest, who I think was 8 or 9, also saluted. truly a proud moment for me

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 9 at 2018 9:05 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Fri, 09 Nov 2018 21:05:09 -0500

Old glory will always be saluted by me! She's a special flag!