On a serious note, any advice on dealing with toxic leadership from a lower enlisted level?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:04:38 -0400

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Jun 7 at 2017 5:10 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:10:21 -0400

This is a delicate issue. Remain respectful and professional. If possible have a witness. Document the behavior. When you speak about the issue don't inject personal opinion only present verifiable facts. Keep emotions out of it unless asked. Present your case in a professional respectful manner. Be patient allow the process to run its course, it can be slower than you wish. Follow the chain of command, as it appropriate to the situation. Don't run around and tell everybody everything, don't post it on Facebook... Put yourself in the other shoes and see if there is way to resolve it at the lowest level first... good luck

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2017 5:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:17:02 -0400

I've always been told to start with the Chain of Command (1SG/ Commander) along with writing specific toxic occurrences- dates, times all that stuff. Then the IG, if the unfair treatment continues. Something you probably already know- I don't think bad leaders will ever go away, you just have to know how to deal with the problem effectively.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2017 5:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:17:55 -0400

1. Learn the regulations
2. Learn the SME's for different situations - i.e. JAG, JST Helpdesk, S1Net, etc.
3. Realize tact beats facts, especially the higher the rank
4. Write your own Memos for Record with witnesses and DTG included when situations may be used against you
5. Write SOMETHING in your DA 4856 counseling feedback section before signing off. Also, remember a complete 4856 has a lower 1/3 on the back for when the counselor and counseled Soldier review everything that happened days or weeks later.
6. Remain professional and realize social media is your online profile and therefore representative of you.
7. Try to build understanding and initiate a one-on-one conversation about the toxicity as needed with whoever needed. Perception is reality and can create issues.
8. Remember "toxic leadership" isn't synonymous with disliking a Leader's leadership style. Leadership is OJT and everyone can't be effectively led the same. You can help others better understand how to lead you. Also, there can always be something you don't know about a particular situation. Leaders are people, too.
9. Don't drink water. Everyone that drinks water dies.
10. Read and talk with others who have engaged in similar threads here on RP - https://www.rallypoint.com/topics/toxic-leadership

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Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2017 5:23 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:23:05 -0400

We all have been patient, we have ample documentation, yet this leader still rises up the ranks/positions. a large group of us (lower enlisted) and NCOs are not happy with his lack of :leadership ability, respect, work ethic, questionable orders/ideas, the list goes on. I fully understand as a lower enlisted soldier my job it to take orders and complete missions and tasks to the best of my ability, but watching my fellows soldiers morale become basically non-existent is painful and discouraging.

Response by SGT Rob Saylor made Jun 7 at 2017 6:49 PM

SGT Rob Saylor — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:49:05 -0400

There are good responses already posted so I won't rehash any of those but I want to add one thing. Before you charge headlong into battle with your leadership, take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are the problem. I've seen quite a few soldiers and for that matter civilians since I got out who blame their attitude and their bad performance on their supervisors without ever stopping to think that maybe those are the very reasons leadership treats them the way they do. If you can honestly answer no to that question then go ahead and run it up the CoC. But remember, when you put your leader under a microscope, you get one of very own as well.

Response by SGT David T. made Jun 7 at 2017 6:53 PM

SGT David T. — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:53:40 -0400

I found that minimizing any and all interactions to only what is necessary for work is the best way to handle that. Don't talk to them unless you have to. Make sure you don't give them any reason to come down on you. NCOs are like cats. Their focus is only as long as the next shiny thing that comes along.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2017 7:50 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:50:47 -0400

Welcome to Life? Not everyone is a stellar leader or Soldier. My first question would be are you in this NCOs rating chain? If not there is no issue. If you are in this NCOs rating chain then you have some issues. Like it or not but the way I read this is a bunch of Soldiers and a few NCOs don't care for another member of the unit. It appears that the Chain of Command has another opinion of the NCO. So, you can go with the flow or buck the system. If the NCO you are having an issue with has not done anything illegal, immoral, or unethical then you do not have many options besides the IG or a Congressional, maybe a Command Climate Survey as well. But you thinking the NCO has leadership issues- that jumps the shark directly to the 1SG or the CSM.

As a previous BN CDR, I often enjoyed long talks with the IG and the SMs that had an issue with one of our NCOs. I hope a specific tone permeated the airways there. To me it looks like an E4 thinks he knows how to be an NCO and you have some NCO friends that are being unprofessional discussing a peer NCO to a junior Soldier. But that is me and I am retired. So, I think it depends on how your chain of command receives the information. I don't understand the MP/ TC task org you are in as well so there might be a dynamic there that I am missing. Best of luck. Let your immediate rater handle this situation and focus on SSI and other PME.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jun 8 at 2017 5:30 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:30:37 -0400

I was always told that if you have a problem with someone in your chain of command you bring it up to them first to see if you can work it out. If that doesn't work you bring it up to their supervisor. Both times though you have to show respect for their authority and have tack. If you come at them half cocked you will be worse off.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Jun 10 at 2017 6:02 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:02:23 -0400

Document on NCOER counseling or written letter of input to sr rated. Hooah.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 20 at 2019 4:30 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:30:13 -0400

Never had anything remotely like a toxic NCO. As a Cpl and not an 03 you basically just do your job, no leadership required your promoted on time s long as you don’t screw up. Sgt is a whole different animal you earn that, if theres any red flags you'll be a terminal E4 and you might as well EAS.