Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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I am under the impression that you were not in uniform, yourself, so you had to break cover, so to speak, to counsel this person in a stand-down status. You brought the problem to the attention of the person. If it was a more flagrant violation of military regulations than just adjusting a gig line, so to speak, then asserting your authority is essential.
I think you did it about right.
I think you did it about right.
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I have quite the opposite issue here, the lower enlisted is wearing their shit right... the upper levels on the other hand could care less as a retiree... I find myself wanting to smash the big yellow birds.
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Given that you were out for an evening yourself, I think you handled an annoying situation
Quite adequately. She was out of Reg, and although she probably thought 'no big deal, no one will notice' you proved to her that indeed it matters and people DO notice. You then elected not to make a huge scene out of it, and that is acceptable, IMHO.
In the bigger picture, she will either learn from this and clean up her act, or no doubt continue to be marginal performer, with repeated stupid moves and eventually system will purge her to CIV status.
Quite adequately. She was out of Reg, and although she probably thought 'no big deal, no one will notice' you proved to her that indeed it matters and people DO notice. You then elected not to make a huge scene out of it, and that is acceptable, IMHO.
In the bigger picture, she will either learn from this and clean up her act, or no doubt continue to be marginal performer, with repeated stupid moves and eventually system will purge her to CIV status.
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In my experience, I have always known female soldiers giving “attitude” to male soldiers all the time. So, I won’t be accused of Sexual Harassment, I’ve always gotten a female soldier, usually an NCO to correct the problem. For whatever reason, I’ve always had a difficult time supervising female soldiers. Being in a public situation, SHE knew she could get away with it. You were smart to get away from that situation.
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I always remember an impromptu inspection our squadron CMSgt hit us with when I was overseas. He went through the ranks, noted our discrepancies, explained what needed to be done to rectify them, and then he walked to the front of the formation, faced us, and said something I have never forgotten. He tolerantly reminded us of our obligation to adhere to AFR 35-10 (the Air Force uniform dress code), and then he said, "Gentlemen, if you're going to wear that uniform, then wear it *RIGHT*. There are a hell of a lot of damned fine people who have *DIED* so you *COULD* wear that uniform." I don't know how that comment affected any of the other guys, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. I never forgot that comment, and even though I hadn't been found in any uniform discrepancy that day, I made sure for the remainder of my time in the AF that my uniform was always where it was supposed to be. I got an APR at one point stating that "my adherence to 35-10 was noteworthy, and set an example well above many of my peers". :) I don't know how good an example I was, but I do thank you for what you said during that inspection, Chief.
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stop her, ID her, ID yourself, explain the reason for your interruption of her day, Request name of Company, 1SG, CO. Inform troop you will contact said command regarding your concern and suggest troop initiates corrective action immediately. Follow Through. Depending on how you handle the situation, i.e., professionally, she should be thanking you and promising to get an appointment to the eye doctor for that problem she seems to be having. ALWAYS STOP AND CORRECT BUT BE PROFESSIONAL.
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What you should have done was ask her to step off to one side, away from her companion, before correcting her. That way you didn't embarrass her in front of them.
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As a field grade officer, I can not just walk away, even retired. I would ask them to come aside with me. To speak with them about their appearance , etc.
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I would have called her to side, idemtified myself and gotten her name and unit. I would have had her squate herself away. If she did comply nother further would occure. If she developed an ttitude I woulf have informed her a report would be submitted to her unit. Young enlizted do dumb thing,that is normal and expected. How the respond when caught is another issue. I did stupid stuff to, when brought to my attention, I fixed it and learned from it.
MSgt USAF Retired
MSgt USAF Retired
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As a former NCO, I have made many on the spot corrections. I do not resort to loud voices. Did you show her your CAC card? If needed, I would have removed her from her location out of earshot, but had my significant other videoing everything from initial approach to conclusion. I would have notified her CoC and her NCO Chain. If it had gotten heated, I probably would have disengaged myself also. It is hard to say since I wasn't there. It is pretty sad that soldiers do this. You don't see Marines doing this BS.
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On the spot corrective action is definitely required. Just be polite and calm. If they get nasty get unit information and simply contact their unit.
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This is why we weren't allowed off base in anything less tha C dress, no utilities allowed thru the gates. Off post guys had to change. Back in the day of course no idea what the Usmc regs are now,
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A CW3 and I were on our way to Milwaukee to meet up with the civilian contingency of our task force to "escort" them to Iraq. The chief and I flew out of Augusta to Atlanta and we were both in uniform. While in Atlanta, we observed a young NCO in ACUs wearing his Stetson in the air terminal. I went up to him and asked him if he was on leave from Iraq and heading home. He told me he was and I welcomed him home. I then reminded him he was indoors and should not be wearing headgear and the Stetson was not authorized for wear with the uniform unless at a unit function where it is permitted by the commander. I told him I understood his pride in being in Cav, but as an NCO he must also follow regulations. He thanked me and apologized and removed his Stetson. $20 says that once he arrived at his destination, he put it back on his head.
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I personally can't understand it. I for one can't wait to get out of uniform when the day is over. I'm honored to wear it but wearing it longer than I have to is not something I'm about. Being in uniform in public is just screaming "thank me for my service" and wearing it incorrectly is just...stupid.
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The few times I did, my intro was, "Better you hear it from me (your chaplain) than your 1SG."
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Praise in public, criticize or counsel in private! Nothing more embarrassing than to be called out for a uniform infraction. Not saying on the spot corrections aren't a valuable tool
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Why did you completely remove yourself from the situation correct her on the spot if not tell that SPC to take off the uniform or correct herself and I would do it in public with my "Knife" hand!!!!'
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I answered this question a while ago but now that I'm stationed at Lackland I see the just graduated BMT airmen, often doing things they know they shouldn't. It's given me an interesting perspective. I fully believe now as I did then that corrections need to be made. From talking with a lot of the new airmen I gathered two things. They weren't thinking and they didn't realize their appearance reflected on the military.
Most of the time their scare sh*tless I'll contact their MTI.
Most of the time their scare sh*tless I'll contact their MTI.
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SGT (Join to see)
It's appropriate at all times and at all ranks regardless of a person's rank if there jacked up you should fix them a.k.a square them away just be respectful about it. I'll be the first to tell you I've seen a lot of hey mother fu**kers or hey fu** faces to people and if someone approached me like that I would tell them to fu** off
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - Right wrong or indifferent, if you do that then you are no better than the guy who is correcting you.
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MAJ (Join to see)
"They weren't thinking and they didn't realize their appearance reflected on the military." is a direct reflection of the leadership they have had in the past. I would argue those are both garbage answers and its more likely that the Airmen you spoke to believe the regulation you are holding them to is not important enough to adhere to. If leaders where instilling the proper amount of discipline and pride they would think more. I get it, some ppl just don't get it and wont listen, put them out.
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