Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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I would've corrected her and then on Monday find her chain of command and report her to them about how she was disrespectful and out of Regs.
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I made the same mistake as a young private, and received 4 days restriction with extra duty. I harbor no ill will because of it and believe we should all be held to standards
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With todays picture phones we now have a leg up on these infractions. Correct procedure is to identify yourself, identify them, then order them to leave and fix themselves. Short and simple. Every NCO near a training base has to face this daily.
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No matter rank if you are in uniform it us your job as a soldier to represent the uniform and the U.S. Army with dignity. not look like a bag of turds that's been left in the hot sun. That SPC needs to learn quick.
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We are in an age where junior troops (and some leaders) have little to no regard for regulations. I feel we as NCOs need to be more assertive in our authority so that situations like this are minimal. Not to say that its our fault but we do share some blame as well as those that feel that they are above whats written in black and white. Its our duty to correct deficiencies detrimental to the good order and discipline within the ranks. Sometimes in doing so we make a few 'enemies'. If we cant make a correction without causing a scene, just ask for their name and unit and poilitely move out. The NCO corps need to grab ahold of the reigns and do what we are charged to do simply put.
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Flame her ass on the spot. Pull rank if you have any. It's a serious violation and her attitude warrants an article 15 especially if you advise her that you are an NCO.
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2 do nothing is a dereliction of duty. Should have done exactly what you started to do but as soon as the s bag gave you attitude all attempts to assists in a off the books manner should have stopped and let the big dogs have a shot.
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I have to make some light of the situation with all of the comments....
"But I'm wearing my fleece cap, which is a part of my IPFUs which means I can wear a ponytail, right?"
"But I'm wearing my fleece cap, which is a part of my IPFUs which means I can wear a ponytail, right?"
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SSG Clyde Koontz
SSG, The fleece cap is part of the cold weather uniform gear, same as the fleece jacket. The last time I checked (I'm now retired), the fleece cap is authorized for wear as stand alone headgear with the ACU uniform. If the Army Regs have changed on that, I will stand corrected. If it has changed, I would like to know how it is currently worded.
The fleece cap is now used as part of the IPFU. Originally a knit cap filled that role.
The fleece cap is now used as part of the IPFU. Originally a knit cap filled that role.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG Clyde Koontz, it's not the fact she's wearing the fleece cap, it's the fact that she is wearing her hair in an unauthorized manner.
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SSG Clyde Koontz
You're absolutely correct. Some people have been pointing out the type of headgear that she was wearing, but that is not what was incorrect. That is what I was responding to.
The fact that she's wearing it indoors is the problem. Also the manner in which her hair is worn.
The fact that she's wearing it indoors is the problem. Also the manner in which her hair is worn.
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You were in the right to correct her. Pull her away and put her on the right track. Rolling eyes and knowingly breaking uniform is disrespect in two MAJOR forms. If junior SMs aren't taught to maintain self-discipline they will fail as leaders when they earn promotion.
The regs support you and so does your conscience. I would've pushed the issue right there so the "public" knows we care about our own. If she balked further, then the embarrassment was earned by her own actions.
The regs support you and so does your conscience. I would've pushed the issue right there so the "public" knows we care about our own. If she balked further, then the embarrassment was earned by her own actions.
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I would have introduced myself, showed her my ID and proceeded to pull her aside ask what unit she was in, inform her that she needed to correct her appearance on the spot. If she refused, I would have walked away, got a hold of her 1SGT and let him/her have at it. No use getting into a pissing contest in public.
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I would have addressed it in a similar manner; however, once this SM began to show signs of disrespect I would have attempted to pull them to the side, identify myself, and fix the situation. If the SM continued in the manner, I would take pictures, record the facts and the SMs name/rank and look in AKO to identify the SM's unit. At this point u would have a conversation with their CoC to get the SM straight.
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You did well. Just leave her alone. She will one day get chewed up if she continues like that.
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You should have immediately identified yourself and pulled her aside to correct her deficiencies. You could have also asked her for her ID and called security if things got stupid. We are all subject to UCMJ on and off duty.
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There was nothing wrong with the fact that you made the correction, but perhaps it would have went over better if you had taken her to the side. I commend you on making the correction. All too often, NCO's just don't want to get involved.
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I think I would have corrected her. I would try to be discreet. At the eye-rolling point, I would have to breathe deep to not lose my temper. At that point, I would remind her that she represents every soldier when she is out in public and that she, in violation of uniform regs, is making every soldier look like a slob in the public's eye.
Being that I am also a woman, I would then remind her she also is representing every woman in uniform in the public eye, and that she is currently an embarrassment. Before walking away, I would say, "Well, it's your honor and integrity. Do what you want."
If she did not correct herself at that point, I might track down her unit and report her the next day...probably in my NSUs (Class Bs) or even my dress uniform. It's fun to pull that out every now and then.
Being that I am also a woman, I would then remind her she also is representing every woman in uniform in the public eye, and that she is currently an embarrassment. Before walking away, I would say, "Well, it's your honor and integrity. Do what you want."
If she did not correct herself at that point, I might track down her unit and report her the next day...probably in my NSUs (Class Bs) or even my dress uniform. It's fun to pull that out every now and then.
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in my day if you were only basically supposed to go from work to home in BDU'S anything else was an article 15, I think staying in uniform is always important and anything else is disrespectful, should have asked where she was stationed and unit nicely then backed out and called the post and complained to the unit or post commander. being she was supposedly in the U.S. Army and a spc4 she knows better and doesn't deserve the rank.
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SSG Clyde Koontz
Policies on when wearing the uniform "off-base" varies, especially when the Guard and Reserves do not always work "on-post". It also varies by situation. Some people are in schools or are training for deployment and have no civilian clothes but are authorized some time in town for WalMart runs or even some down time at the movies or restaurants. Deployments have forced changes and exceptions to many policies.
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SPC Ronald Treitner
while I've heard of expanded time for shopping off post, events etc. I still find it hard to believe staying in the proper uniform isn't enforced or regs drilled into their heads. back when I was in our commanders made sure we knew the standards because if we were caught off post somewhere we shouldn't be, or out of uniform it was our butts.
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SPC Ronald Treitner
don't get me wrong back when I was in it was primarily a peace time military up until Desert Storm, we had to set up crash course basic training and train several national guard/reserve units before they went over before most of us went, they didn't have a clue how to properly wear uniforms, didn't know which way to point a weapon and couldn't hit a target, and had no idea how to use or work on any of the equipment they were supposedly trained on (their MOS.) however they came from a peace time environment and never expected to get sent anywhere. that is not the case in today's military. knowing all this stuff is done for a reason and not knowing how to use your equipment, render first aid etc. can get you killed, its not just actual combat alone that can be dangerous, but a lack of training is even worse. it is inexcusable that any unit leaders wouldn't make every effort to train their troops. it is just as bad when what may be a simple uniform mistake is brushed off by the individual rather than correcting it once realized, and compounded by the fact that someone holding the rank of e-8 doesn't know the military regs, nor the proper way to approach an individual. if leaders can't handle a simple uniform correction what does that say about their abilities where it counts such as in a combat environment where a lack of professionalism and knowledge can be deadly
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I don't see why fixing yourself for messed up hair and cover inside can be wrong. Its the spouses of officers that want to come up to military members, and correct them like they think they're experts. News flash. Pregnant girls and gimps wear tennis shoes, and we don't have to flash our chit to YOU to prove it, busy bodies.
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