Online PME?

2014-01-19T18:43:29-05:00

Today we're finding more and more professional military education programs offered online, the idea of this thread is to offer a place to discuss the development of this relatively new platform... the good, the bad, and the indifferent; essentially, all things online military PME (as well as the development of online military training). The quality of military online education that I've personally experienced  has been outstanding, though a well rounded and realistic discussion is highly encouraged in order to ensure we touch on all aspects and angles of the discussion.  Please feel free to share your thoughts, experiences, research, scholarly articles, materials and/or professional conclusions/remarks on the subject. Given the current state of the force and budgetary concerns, we're very likely to hear more discussion about online options for major military coursework (BDE, IDE, SDE, etc.) in very near future... I'm certain there are folks out there w/ experience and idea in this area; so, fasten your seat belts, pull up a keyboard, and let's get this thing started, thank you for all that you do, and... see you all in the discussion threads!

Response by Lt Col Luis A. Rojas made Jan 19 at 2014 7:32 PM

2014-01-19T19:32:17-05:00

I personally have not done much online courses, but think it is a great idea...especially for PME.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2014 12:47 AM

2014-01-20T00:47:02-05:00

While I feel online PME has a place it should be used as a supplement for in-residence PME. The Air Force is going to a hybrid model where some of the traditional coursework for the various levels of PME is going to be online, and the in-residence piece will be shortened. I think this can be a valuable cost-saving measure, but I worry about us eventually losing the in-residence portion of EPME completely.

One of the greatest benefits of PME is getting out of your day-to-day duties to focus on self-improvement. This is difficult to do when you're completing coursework on-duty, or after duty at home station. The other problem with online PME is losing the benefit of networking with your peers.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Jan 20 at 2014 10:40 PM

2014-01-20T22:40:01-05:00

I have done online classes, hybrid classes, and brick-and-mortar classes in college. There is no one method better than the other--it comes down to execution and intent. For PME, there is no replacement for face-to-face interaction. The one thing I hate about AF PME is location. If the Air Force is supposedly smarter than the other services, then why the heck do we send our best and brightest to Montgomery, Ala-friggin-bama? Every speeding ticket, stolen wallet, and near-mugging I have ever had occurred in the cultural center of the galaxy that is Montgomery, Alabama. The absolute best PME I ever had was Air and Space Basic Course (ASBC), mainly because as an acquisitions officer the one week that we mixed in with Senior NCO Academy was the most time I spent with SNCOs ever since I crossed over the dark side from the enlisted corps. <div><br></div><div>I hate online PME courses, but I hate Maxwell AFB even more. Since the Air Force pretty much sucks at sticking with its own rules and promotes every Tom, Dick and Harry, I think skipping out on the cultural immersion of the open-mouth-breathers in Alabama and just doing online PME classes is the best way to save the Air Force $1.21 Bazillion in order to buy another F-35.</div>

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2014 10:42 PM

2014-01-20T22:42:14-05:00

I scored 80 on my first attempt at the PFE which I heard was like some 20-25 pts about the average. My claim to fame. lol

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2014 1:27 AM

2014-01-21T01:27:52-05:00

While I prefer to take many of my college courses online, I feel that the in-class interaction is extremely beneficial. When a student has a question in a class, many times a student may not remember the words to the answer from the instructor, but they remember an action or something that the instructor did in the class to help remember or trigger the answer. I am big on looking at people during interaction, but the online method does save money....

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 6:58 PM

2014-01-22T18:58:26-05:00

As the development of online training and education is an important topic that we're likely to hear more about very soon, in order to promote maximum discussion, here are a few related topics for consideration and participation. Thanks for all that you do! https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/42070-what-is-everyones-take-on-the-army-s-online-training-program

What is everyones take on the Army's online training program?

Every month certificates from online training need to be turned in (SHARP, AT level 1, INFOSEC etc...) How do you feel about the Army transitioning to a great deal of its training being done online?&n...

Response by CW3 Michael Danberry made Jan 22 at 2014 10:11 PM

2014-01-22T22:11:39-05:00

Personally I dislike online learning. The concept is very good, I just know that there are times when I feel totally lost and don't know where to start. When I was getting my AAS degree, I liked being around other people. In my field of study (Network Development), I know I would not have all of the needed computer hardware available at home. This is PME related, because how is your mechanic going to get better fixing the trucks by reading something online and having no practical validation of it. I was enrolled about 2 years ago for my next level of Warrant Officer school. They have a 48 hour PME portion before arriving on site (this is a very intimidating amount of hours to me). Maybe I just work too hard, but I surely could not find time to do this after working 8-10 hours per day and trying to help as many people as possilbe via MilitaryCAC.com. I found my limits really quick and that class was what I let go.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 7:52 AM

2014-01-24T07:52:44-05:00

I think online education is great, provided it's academically rigorous. If Service Members are able to complete their PME from anywhere, it eliminates the problem of "time removed" from the line and allows for continued immersion in your duties. It also helps prevent the relatively common problem (at least as far as I've seen) of commanders holding onto their Soldiers long after it was time for them to go on to PME simply so they can have their go-to team for the current deployment or CTC rotation.

Maybe this is better for another topic, but where I find the biggest problem with Army PME, not sure how it is in the USAF, is the fact that it's not academically rigorous. Sure, we claim it is challenging, give people writing assignments, long tests, presentations to prepare, etc... but how many actually fail? I mean, if it's supposed to be a challenge, how come we're afraid to fail people? We see someone struggling and either help them out to the point they're not doing their own work or just sweep it under the rug. For example, one of my co-graduates from the Captains Career Course failed both the final PT test and the capstone military decision making process exam, but no one bothered with a retest and they went on to better things. Should that person be promoted to major as a CCC graduate and become a staff officer? Especially now that we're looking for excuses to trim down the force, shouldn't PME be another method to weed people out? If we claim to only want the best of the best in the armed forces, I would think proving your worth academically in PME is just as important as proving your capabilities in your duties.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2014 11:22 PM

2014-01-27T23:22:17-05:00

I just finished ILE via distance learning. My year group was so backed up to attend resident ILE, that my only option was to complete via DL. They give you 18 months to complete…and it sucked!

Here is why: I have a lot of peers that were fortunate enough to attend resident ILE (although fortunate…is a matter of opinion…I've been TDY to Leavenworth in the winter…not my ideal place)…and they are set-up kind of like CCC…in small groups.

First: In small groups you have the benefit of getting various opinions, the ability to bounce ideas off of your peers and group work. Via the DL learning venue - it is ALL YOU! All writing assignments, lessons and on-line tests.

Second: Some assignments via DL cannot be turned-in until a previous assignment has been graded…which puts the brakes on you until you get it back. Some of my assignments took upwards of 25 days to get graded.

Third: There are four books that DL students have to purchase…around $250 bucks. Resident students can just go to the library and check them out. (Not a big deal…but still an expense that resident students don't have)

Fourth: While they say that you are 'supposed' to get duty time to work on ILE…rarely has that happened. Although I had a supportive CoC…I just had too much going on as the BN XO to take time out of my day to work on ILE.

That's about it…if at all possible…GO RESIDENT ILE…or at the very least…Satellite version of it. (Although now that folks get boarded to decide whether they go resident, satellite or DL…they may not have much say in the matter).

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Apr 7 at 2014 10:48 PM

2014-04-07T22:48:19-04:00

It really depends on the topic, my natural affinity to it, and how well the course curriculum was designed.

In addition to two Masters degrees both gained entirely online (online interaction mandated, regular semesters, due dates), I did Command & General Staff College (ILE-CC and AOWC for Army types) online (no interaction, need to finish in 18 months, no internal deadlines). I also taught ILE-CC in a face to face setting. The face to face was much more effective. Online CGSC was a pain, with limited learning.

I took the Defense Security Course entirely online, with no interaction. Excellent course. I did FA30 qualification, mostly online with a cohort, with a small resident phase. Superb course.

I just completed the Air War College DL program entirely online, with no interaction - painful! But done in 18 months, which was my goal.

I am getting ready for the Army War College DL program this summer. Looking forward to it. For this one, I plan on forming a local study group with other remote enrollees.

And several others. This is to say, I have had many flavors or online training, with many different results.

I tend to prefer online non-interactive courses more when I have an affinity for the topic and it is amenable to (MY!) reason. In these cases, I prefer to go at my own pace, and prefer to not have to work with others. I tend to prefer online interactive courses where I understand the academic side, but feel that the subject matter is open to multiple different legitimate viewpoints that are outside of my experience. I prefer face to face courses when the subject matter is completely new to me or significantly outside my comfort zone.

I think it is important that PME be available in multiple modalities.

Additionally, for Reservists who are employed, online PME is a real leveler of the playing field.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2014 12:07 AM

2014-04-08T00:07:40-04:00

Overall, I have completed my Master's Degree online and am working on my finishing my PhD online. I think it is great that you can work on it at your own time and pace. However, you miss the personal connections. All of the DL that I have done in the Army so far is strictly on your own. There is no interaction whatsoever. I have heard that other PME is in groups, but when building the groups they mix in time zones to include Europe and Pacific islands. It is hard enough to schedule a teleconference for a battalion and have everyone attend, let alone time zones across the oceans. I foresee that we will go more DL, but I feel that we are doing a disservice by not having the interactions between our peers and the instructors.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 6:50 AM

2015-03-23T06:50:42-04:00

With USAF On-line learning (example Course 14v6) is the same issue with the CBTs that we have to do on ADLS. Too big of a program to run on too little of a network. Too much animation and too many programs that take 2-6 minutes per slide to load, if it doesn't time out. This is on and off the government network. Trying to complete some of these tasks is nearly impossible at TDY/Deployment locations due to bandwidth issues. It becomes counter productive and very frustrating trying to learn and complete the requirement. A better issue would be to streamline the programs, give us the nuts and bolts and test us on the material. Like online learning at a university. I'm currently taking an online MBA course and don't have any of the issues that I have with USAF online programs.