“Operation Vigilant Guard” If you were asked to go door to door and confiscate personal weapons from law abiding citizens, what would do?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:16:33 -0400

http://patriotnewswire.com/2015/03/breaking-national-guard-going-door-to-door-confiscating-guns

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 18 at 2015 12:39 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:39:36 -0400

I don't know if the story is true regarding this operation but what I will say is I would hope senior commanders would refuse the order and secure their base/unit and let them know this was an unlawful order and that is why it is being disregarded.

Response by SPC Jesse Akers made Mar 18 at 2015 1:08 PM

SPC Jesse Akers — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:08:33 -0400

If you think it would (or has ) never happened, please research New Orleans during Katrina.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 18 at 2015 2:11 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:11:09 -0400

No the order is unlawful and I won't give up Mine so there for I guess I'll bury it for when I get out of Jail! LMAO!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 2:36 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:36:58 -0400

Great conversation on this keep it coming!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 18 at 2015 9:10 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:10:08 -0400

"Sir/Sgt/Etc, I have serious concerns about the legality of this order. On it's face, it violates not just the letter of the Constitution, but the Spirit as well. As I have sworn an Oath to protect it, I do not believe I can follow this order as given. Is there additional guidance, rules of engagement, policy letters, etc?"

"Additionally, I'll need that order in writing, and in front of witnesses, because when I refuse it, I want it documented exactly why and what I am refusing, and on what grounds."

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 9:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:27:05 -0400

The wellness checks are part of any homeland emergency response plan by State, Federal, and NG units. This is how people get saved by the NG troops who respond to flooded areas, etc.. I know most soldiers wouldn't want to try disarm the legally armed civilian population.

Response by CDR Lewis C Larson made Mar 18 at 2015 10:14 PM

CDR Lewis C Larson — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:14:19 -0400

Refuse to obey an unlawful order.

Response by PO3 Kevin Murray made Mar 18 at 2015 10:33 PM

PO3 Kevin Murray — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 22:33:04 -0400

Sounds like a health dose of UNCONSTITUTIONAL! I wouldn't consider that a "lawful" order.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 11:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 23:53:36 -0400

This is not the job of the military. We should not be used as a force against our own people. Domestically we aid in disasters, participate in the "war on terror" through CI operations, assist local peace keeping forces when overwhelmed BUT we do not face law abiding citizens as policing arm of our government. If this order were to ever take place it needs to be on the local & national law enforcement agencies. The military is not a police force and in no way a lone order such as this would call for martial law to be enacted in which to utilize us as such.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 12:42 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 00:42:25 -0400

I would refuse that order if given. After Katrinia New Hampshire passed HB-1639 to prevent such confiscations to happen here. Other states did the same.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 1:34 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 01:34:13 -0400

It's unconstitutional. So no. Plus, the military isn't a police force nor a peace keeping force with in the borders of the USA. So again. NO

Response by SFC Russell Campbell made Mar 19 at 2015 3:48 AM

SFC Russell Campbell — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:48:19 -0400

I would say go to HELL and Court-martial me. We let the Iraqis keep one fully automatic AK per house hold and that was in a Combat zone. If we found more than one weapon it was confiscated. As far as the US is concerned, I think you'll end up with a WHOLE BUNCH OF DEAD Soldiers if you tried that crap, especially in the central mid-west and the south. Oh, you'd get a few weapons and then the rest would go underground or worse yet be used against you. Especially where I am from. TEXAS!

It is ILLEGAL TO TAKE A CITIZENS ARMS FROM HIM OR HER ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION. IF YOU VIOLATE THAT AMMENDMENT, YOU HAVE VIOLATED THE VERY OATH THAT YOU TOOK WHEN ENTERING THE SERVICE AND THEREFORE ARE NO LONGER IN A LEGITIMATE POSITION TO ISSUE ORDERS OR HAVE ANY ORDER YOU DO ISSUE FOLLOWED BY YOUR SOLDIERS, UNLESS THEY ARE ALL MINDLESS NAZISs OR SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST SCUM. You would also become a fair target for legitimate citizens to legally "take you out." Regardless of the political smoke screen of a "Martial Law" situation. The Bill of Rights is not to be abridged or abrogated by any means in our form of government regardless of what political hack says so in the White House, the Judiciary or Congress.
Now, if you want to start a Civil War go ahead and implement this crap. Just remember folks, when they take your guns away, they soon take all the other rights you have away, starting with free speech.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 10:39 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:39:47 -0400

As I stated in a similar thread (see: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/soldier-going-door-to-door-to-collect-weapons):

If I am not willing to give up my own firearms how can I expect others? In this hypothesis does that mean we now have to willingly turn our own personal firearms over first? And if WE refuse what would the punishment be and who would enforce it? (See what I did there) :)

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 20 at 2015 11:33 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 23:33:50 -0400

Not in this lifetime!!!!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 20 at 2015 11:47 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 23:47:22 -0400

I cut this trash off at about 5 minutes. My unit is OPCON to USNORTHCOM on stand by for major disasters. If there were a Federal a Disaster declared and the State was overwhelmed and requested help, FEMA as lead Federal Agency would pass mission requests to Title 10 forces through the Joint Staff to NORTHCOM. In most cases these Forces are sent in direct coordination with the State's Dual Status Commander to execute mission assignments in support of the State. Strongly recommend to anyone that thinks this link is even remotely true, go on line and take the Defense Support of Civil Authorities level 1 course. It lays out everything soup to nuts: constitution, posse Commitatus, State Active Duty NG, Title 32, Title 10, USCG under Title 14, Stafford Act, Economy Act, etc. I took DSCA II resident, and it went deeper into the processes, but same messages. A whole 4 Star command with 4 Service Component Commands are all singing the same song...seems like either a very elaborate distraction to support weapon seizures OR what is portrayed in the attached link is BS. My unit was in VG 15 in SC, just working with the State with the State in the lead. No gun seizures. Sorry no conspiracy. The VG in UT didn't either.

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Mar 21 at 2015 12:13 AM

SFC Boots Attaway — Sat, 21 Mar 2015 00:13:06 -0400

Not now not ever so HELL NO.

Response by SGT Mark Sorocko made Mar 21 at 2015 1:51 AM

SGT Mark Sorocko — Sat, 21 Mar 2015 01:51:11 -0400

Don't get me wrong with this, read the whole thing. Hopefully this never happens. If it were to happen then you follow the law and your orders. If you do not find any guns then I guess you can not confiscate them.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 21 at 2015 11:31 AM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:31:33 -0400

I noticed that the questions was if you were asked, because if it was an order it would be an unlawful order which has to be denied. As for if asked then that would be a violation of state and federal laws which means that in doing so you are committing a crime; therefore NO. It is sad that to see that the military is used to push fear.

Response by SGT Kristjan Rahe made Apr 21 at 2015 11:35 AM

SGT Kristjan Rahe — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:35:13 -0400

I am more of a Molon Labe type of guy so I would have to refuse

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 11 at 2015 3:59 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 11 May 2015 15:59:08 -0400

This is an Unlawful order and requires to be disobeyed. The key word in your question is "asked" which demonstrates that the person doing the asking knows that they are wrong. As an order it is a violation.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Jun 30 at 2015 10:41 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:41:43 -0400

I would consider it not only my right but my duty to refuse such an order and do so in writing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2015 11:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:32:53 -0400

As an Oath Keeper who lives by his Oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic and bear true faith and allegiance to the same, my reply to the officer giving me the order is not no but hell no!
We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.

For those of you who don't know, The American People have the largest Cache of Legally owned civilian firearms in the world.
500,000,000 of them amongst 80-100 Million Gun owners.
When given that order to go against the most highly and heavily armed population on God's green earth, it's suicide.
That's why you have to use common sense and wake up your fellow brothers and sisters in arms so that they stand by you and also refuse to obey the unlawful and unconstitutional order of gun confiscation of lawfully owned civilian firearms in the hands of the citizens.
The reason that we are citizens and not serfs or slaves is because We The People have the means to resist tyranny, and Oppression.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2015 11:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:38:23 -0400

It would be possible to show the military is not to be used in such circumstances. I think this would be in conflict with the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act limiting the powers of the federal government to use it's military personnel to act as domestic law enforcement personnel. We are required to be obedient to "Lawful" orders not all orders. You can refuse an order if you believe it is unlawful. We are still held accountable for our actions even when following orders see U.S. v. Keenan and the Medina standard.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 21 at 2015 3:56 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:56:19 -0400

Oh, if you mean go door to door and confiscate personal weapons as in breaking the law and probably getting shot in the process then no, not without proper liability on the government and not me or my Soldiers.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 27 at 2015 2:30 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:30:10 -0400

You are kidding with this source right? It's a joke isn't it? First of all there is no such program and if there were I'd have to voice my protest and refuse

I'm not believing that you're serious with this.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Oct 4 at 2015 5:10 PM

1LT Aaron Barr — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 17:10:09 -0400

I would consider it my duty to refuse any such order.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 7 at 2015 12:00 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:00:24 -0400

I would prepare my will in advance.

Response by SPC George Long made Oct 7 at 2015 12:04 AM

SPC George Long — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:04:43 -0400

If the government should order this then I would assume my country had fallen. I may be old but I can still shoot. Take this as a polite piece of advise. Call your momma before you come see me. She might want to say good bye.

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Oct 7 at 2015 12:50 AM

Sgt Matt Koeneman — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:50:41 -0400

Shoot the one giving the order

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 7 at 2015 12:57 AM

SGT Michael Glenn — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:57:39 -0400

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962). I have read all the way through every single comment on this post and was amazed to see only a few say they would follow such an order. Many said they were bound to the OATH and would not follow this order. I read in it very plainly that I took an oath to defend the constitution AND obey the orders of the President. So how does this work if the President orders you to violate the constitution??? Foreign and domestic... Foreign and domestic... I have also seen many on other posts chastise People on here for even mentioning or thinking about disobeying the CIC. I am very curious as to just how many would actually follow such an order if they were ordered to go to their home towns and look their family and friends in the face as they tried to carry this out. Its something different when it doesnt hit home.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 7:39 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 07:39:56 -0400

I will neither denial or confirm that a civil war will happen if they push for full outright firearms confiscation. .... oh ... my apology ... that is not related to this question .... or is it??

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Oct 8 at 2015 9:32 PM

MAJ Ron Peery — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 21:32:47 -0400

Pick a house to defend and guard it against anyone coming to raid it.

Response by SrA Jonathan Carbonaro made Oct 12 at 2015 4:03 PM

SrA Jonathan Carbonaro — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:03:06 -0400

Thats a good way to get shot. I'm not trying to get shot...

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 4:10 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:10:20 -0400

Well, first, the Constitution and federal law would have to be rewritten. It's called Posse Comitatus. Secondly, once suspended, each and every search would require a lawful warrant predicated upon the Fourth Amendment. Thirdly, probable cause would have to substantiated before a magistrate for each and every such warrant. Finally, I am retired, so I would not be "ordered" to violate the Constitution and the lawful rights of Americans, as guaranteed by that Constitution. To any of you would follow that "order," I further guarantee that many of you would not survive that "second day of infamy," if it ever comes. Nor will I, but I will take a lot of brain-dead automatons in military uniform with me. I'll make Charlton Heston proud.

One of the best discussion questions in a long time, LTC Private RallyPoint Member!!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 3:37 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:37:31 -0400

Sir - I would put on my tin foil hat and be a good trooper and begin my mindless drone of soldiering.

But on a serious note - my oath of office states "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same".

It's my duty to question "questionable"/unethical/immoral orders and act accordingly. I've always told my subordinates the same.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Oct 22 at 2015 9:30 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:30:27 -0400

Refuse to comply with an inlawful order.