Paid BAH Type II for a 42 day school?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 06:38:11 -0500

I recently got sent to school (as a reservist) which lasted for 42 days. It's my understanding that full BAH is earned when active for 30 days or more, anything less and you get BAH Type II.

My school was two 21 day phases, back to back. This was a continuous 42 day course without days off.

I was paid BAH Type II and was explained by my unit that that's how the Army saves $$, essentially cheating a soldier out of benefits. My house payment didn't change so why would I not get paid enough to cover it? I'm not having any luck finding a reg on it. If anyone knows where it is I would greatly appreciate it.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jan 11 at 2016 8:58 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:58:07 -0500

You might get BAH Type II if your AT orders were bundled in together for it. This way, you would have been on two separate orders, 14 days for AT and 28 days on active duty for the school, therefore not breaking the 30 day requirement for full BAH.

Units are typically required to expend their AT training dollars first (at least in the Guard), so it's not necessarily to an effort to shortchange you. If you had done AT in the same fiscal year before this school, then it would appear that something is wrong.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 11 at 2016 10:03 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:03:34 -0500

I am confused:

http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/basic-allowance-for-housing/non-locality-bah-payment-rates.html

Servicemembers who live in government housing and pay child support are eligible for BAH differential (table below). Servicemembers who pay child support and live on the local economy receive the "with dependent" BAH rate for their locality. Find your Basic Allowance for Housing Rates

The following table reflect the 2016 BAH Differential rates:

Grade Differential
O-10 $333.60
O-9 $333.60
O-8 $333.60
O-7 $333.60
O-6 $283.50
O-5 $274.20
O-4 $182.40
O-3 $182.10
O-2 $214.80
O-1 $232.20
O3E $190.80
O2E $228.30
O1E $267.60
W-5 $114.00
W-4 $140.40
W-3 $211.80
W-2 $223.80
W-1 $216.60
E-9 $285.90
E-8 $267.90
E-7 $310.20
E-6 $300.00
E-5 $255.30
E-4 $220.50
E-3 $180.90
E-2 $241.50
E-1 $285.90

BAH Differential Rates

BAH differential is for Servicemembers with special circumstances like those who live in government housing and pay child support.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 10:14 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:14:26 -0500

I thought school is not A.T. but different money. MAJ WEISS has a point though. I would not be surprised. My unit has a dod directive of paying soldiers who travel over 150 miles up to $300 for travel expenses but before it could include mileage or airline ticket up to $300 and lodging in kind was included as an extra benefit if you were on the unit list and made the lodging request.. This was a USAR thing. Now you get lodging in kind or up to $300 in expenses or mileage but not both.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 11:34 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 11:34:09 -0500

What I suspect is that you have more than one set of orders, each covering a different phase of the school. If that is the case, they are technically (if not morally) correct.
Otherwise, you got jobbed my friend, and if your unit persist that this is right then you need to pay your IG a visit.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Jan 11 at 2016 12:04 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:04:47 -0500

Rut Roah. 1SG Private RallyPoint Member, thoughts on this one?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 12:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:37:45 -0500

SSG Wallen,

This was fairly recent change that I remember reading about in the news. A web search may turn up the story I am referring to. "TDY over 30 days" maybe. I agree it is a complete rip off.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 11 at 2016 1:18 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:18:06 -0500

You can call and talk to some one at My Pay, have you tried that.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 11 at 2016 1:19 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:19:49 -0500

Also if you were on one set of orders then your math is correct, but if you were on two set of orders then some one probably Spec 4 Mafia has saved the ARMY money..

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 3:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:30:03 -0500

Depends on the type and duration of orders. Depending on the type of school, they should have used the appropriate funds to cut one order. I suspect that they used AT and then ADT orders (2 sets > 30 days).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 3:39 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:39:15 -0500

This pic might clear up a few things. PII and a little extra redacted (thanks MS Paint).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 7:42 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:42:08 -0500

Did you have a break maybe a day or two between the orders. Also you can apply for FSA family separation allowance seen that you were away for 42 days. reach out to me at [login to see]

Response by SCPO Carl Wayne Boss made Jan 12 at 2016 8:00 AM

SCPO Carl Wayne Boss — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 08:00:50 -0500

SSG(P) Wallen; My experience is with U.S. Coast Guard Regs regarding your situation... I suggest you pay a visit to your Units Pay & Personnel Section's Clerks, It's been my experience that there's usually one or two of those folks that specialize in the ins and outs of Reserve pay & allowances for pay during (ADT) Active Duty for Training or (TAD) Temporary Additional Duty, for Schools & various kinds of Specialty Training, etc.

I was Administrative NCO for my last couple of Units and if you were in the U.S. Coast Guard I'd refer you to the Pay and Personnel Procedure Manual & possibly the Housing Manual, to start with see what you can find regarding, Reserve Pay and allowances for ADT or TAD for Training.

I'm sure the Army has similar manuals, that you're way more familiar with than I or as an E-6, at least you should be!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 9:30 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 09:30:48 -0500

BAH has nothing to do with your house payment, it is based on your zip code, dependency status, and yes, your orders. IADT (the orders you get for first going to basic) only cover type II BAH and you have to show that you are paying rent or have dependents. I understand this is probably not the case for you. I would agree that you just had a gap in orders. Might still be able to fight it.

Response by MSgt Timothy Brock made Jan 12 at 2016 9:38 AM

MSgt Timothy Brock — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 09:38:04 -0500

How were your orders cut? Two sets for 21 days each?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 12 at 2016 11:05 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:05:14 -0500

A couple of things has to have happened, do you have a copy of your rental/mortgage in finance system. If not this would be the primary reason. If you are married is all the information in finance? If you are a single soldier with no information in the system you got what your getting. I fought for years with the Guard over this, got the run around from hell. Finally I got a hold of someone who could set it straight. To me BAH type II for a single soldier should be banished from the face of the earth, it is IMHO the grossest form of discrimination I have ever seen in uniform. As it takes a whole class of service members and states your living arrangements mean nothing to us, but married service members get the full authorization. The onus is on you to get the info in the system, don't expect people to know what your talking about, as most people are ignorant on this, but you are allowed to get BAH figured on where you live, when you are on your 2 weeks, or school, or activation. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 11:37 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:37:37 -0500

Your unit basically did you wrong!!
I did both phases for ALC and SLC and one was 41 day orders and the other was 42 orders. You even accrue leave also and is laid out at the end

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 1:12 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:12:06 -0500

Send a pay inquiry through a USAR finance clerk or your UA to DFAS. If you're entitled to full BAH based on the consecutive sets of orders, they'll recoup the BAH you were paid and pay you the appropriate amount in a subsequent LES. If you're not, they won't.

That being said, most of the BAH FAQs I've read talk about the entitlement changing if the original orders are amended to be longer than 30 days, rather than two consecutive sets of orders. And even then, there's some suggestion that unless one set of orders was for a contingency, full BAH would still not apply. But that information is from FAQs from second-hand sources (Military Times, USCG Reservist page, places like those), rather than from a regulation.

Incidentally, the threshold is not actually thirty days or more. It's more than 30 days. A 30-day order still gets BAH-RC (I know from experience).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 1:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:20:55 -0500

If they persist, and insist that it's two separate orders and that there's no changing it, submit travel vouchers for BOTH. If it's two orders, that means two trips there and back.

Response by SFC Dave Zaragoza made Jan 12 at 2016 1:31 PM

SFC Dave Zaragoza — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:31:36 -0500

Have been to many orders for 42 straight days of active-duty. And using free text in the order system have them type in reporting to two different schools on two different dates. However so you don't get stiffed on pay in the Meanwell do this after you complete your present orders and they can always refund you the bah difference. SFC Z (Retired)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 3:17 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:17:20 -0500

The Army has many tricks to save money, especially with RC. If you have two separate orders, then each is treated individually. So, two 21 day periods. Also, despite your belief to the contrary, the Army is not responsible for your mortgage. You get paid in accordance to policy. However, the oversight appears to be one or both of the following:

1. You were not briefed on the pay and benefits based on your orders.
2. Your first set of orders did not reflect a follow-on period (no break in service/no change in station). This can be amended.

For some awareness, while on active duty, performing 270 days of field duty per year, my commander would provide a bus for family members to visit one weekend per month. Although the Army authorizes Family Separation Pay of $2.50 per day for periods of separation equal or greater than 30 days, because there was bus service, no one every received FSA. It didn't matter that we went 270 days, in Germany, without seeing our family!

Response by SFC Nyla Newville made Jan 12 at 2016 4:33 PM

SFC Nyla Newville — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:33:26 -0500

Ya sometimes being a Reservist you do get the short end. They have some way of figuring that it doesn't count as active duty per-say, but it does count for retirement if you haven't had a MOB and you plan to have a retirement get as much time as you can, are you young? It's never too early to think about.

Response by 1SG John Mohon made Jan 12 at 2016 4:42 PM

1SG John Mohon — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:42:50 -0500

That's how they do it. During Operation Aerosafe (just after 9/11), I was on orders for ten months. About 2-3 months into the operation, they reissued orders with different authorities and end dates. I ended up being on several sets of orders during that mobilization, just so I wouldn't go over 180 days.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 12 at 2016 5:06 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 17:06:02 -0500

Some more info:
ORDERS GREATER THAN 30 DAYS.
1. Reservists with dependents who are ordered to active duty for 31 days or more are entitled to BAH with dependents.
2. Reservists without dependents.
a. Extended Active Duty (EAD), Active Duty for Training (ADT-AT, or ADT-OTD) of 140 days or more, Active Duty For Other Than Training (ADSW-AC or ADSW-RC) of 181 days or more, and member is authorized PCS entitlements. Reservists are entitled to BAH without dependents, Partial BAH, and BAH-Diff similar to any other member on active duty.

b. Active Duty for Training (ADT-AT, or ADT-OTD) of 139 days or less, or Active Duty For Other Than Training (ADSW-AC or ADSW-RC) of 180 days or less. Reservists are entitled to BAH without dependents to cover the housing costs of the member’s residence.
ORDERS LESS THAN 31 DAYS (other than in support of a Contingency Operation):
1.A reserve member ordered to active duty for 30 days or less is entitled to BAH-RC, as shown in the Non-Locality rate tables at http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bah.cfm.
2.If the member receives an order modification/extension, and the prospective new period of active duty is 31 days or more, the member’s BAH entitlement changes from BAH-RC to full BAH with dependents or full BAH without dependents effective the date the orders are officially modified.

Example 1: A reservist with dependents is issued non-contingency orders for 30 days from 3/1/2012 through 3/30/2012. On 3/20/2012, the reservist’s orders are amended to instead end on 4/30/2012. Because the prospective new period of active duty is 31 days (from 3/31 – 4/30/2012), this reservist’s BAH changes from BAH-RC to BAH with dependents effective 3/20/2012.

Example 2: A reservist with dependents is issued non-contingency orders for 30 days from 3/1/2012 through 3/30/2012. On 3/20/2012, the reservist’s orders are amended to instead end on 4/29/2012. Because the prospective new period of active duty is only 30 days (from 3/31 – 4/29/2012), this reservist’s BAH-RC entitlement does not change.
3.A reserve member ordered to initial active duty for training (IADT), regardless of duration, is entitled to BAH at the without dependent rate if the reservist is paying rent/mortgage payments for a permanent residence. If the reservist is not paying rent/mortgage payments for a permanent residence, the reservist is entitled to Partial BAH or BAH-Diff, as appropriate.

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 9:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 21:23:56 -0500

Unit create orders base on how the course is broke down, Ph1, 2, 3, and so on. If your unit sets you up for the full length and you fail, the gov will recoup the amount they had already paid you and that can make things harder on the Soldier.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2016 9:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:31:51 -0500

They cut you two separate orders. One for phase I, and one for phase II.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2016 12:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:21:51 -0500

SSG Wallen,
BAH Type II was changed to BAH-RC some time ago, the regulation is the Joint Travel Regulation Chapter 10, which reads: 10014 RC RATE (BAH-RC)
BAH-RC rates are established by the SECDEF and are determined and set forth in par. 10002-B1. The BAH-RC Rate is the housing allowance authorized for an RC member called or ordered to active duty for 30 or fewer days except for an RC member called to active duty for a contingency. An RC member called to active duty for a contingency is authorized the BAH/OHA rate even for tours of 30 or fewer days (par. 10428).

If there is no break between both orders you may be entitled retroactive BAH based on your zip code but the current policy may dictate otherwise.

Best of luck.

Response by LTC Scott Andrews made Jan 14 at 2016 7:39 PM

LTC Scott Andrews — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:39:27 -0500

I am a finance tech at an RPAC, you will only get BAH II if the order is less then or equal to 30 days. The unit should have put you on orders for the entire duration, but the government, knowing this, probably had the school split into multiple phases, so yes, you got BAH II, which is correct.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 2:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:53:54 -0500

I assume they sent you on two sets of orders, one for each phase, a lot of units do this because they can only pay you for orders up to 28 days, also if you by chance do not pass phase one it is much easier to rescind the second set of orders than go back and collect any money paid.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2017 3:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:46:31 -0500

Sometimes units cut the orders for phase 1 and phase 2 separate for various reasons. One as someone stated is if you fail in phase 1 less money to recoup since phase 2 was not paid for yet. Also any order over 29 days the reserve unit cannot pay it. You would have to take your orders to the post finance if they have one to get paid. Then you would be paid just like active on the 15 and end of the month.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2019 9:27 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 09:27:53 -0400

♦ Active duty less than 30 consecutive ays — BAH RC/T. This includes annual training and active-duty training or special work that doesn't meet the 30-day threshold.

However, serving 31 days — the minimum time required to receive full BAH — does not automatically entitle a reservist to the higher payments. For example, if a reservist is called up for 14 days and receives a 17-day extension, he receives only BAH RC/T unless the call-up or extension was for a national emergency or contingency operation.

For periods of duty less than 31 days, BAH RC/T payments are prorated for the actual number of days served.