Paranoia when shooting with civilians?

Sgt Adam Jennings — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 00:02:01 -0500

Does anyone else stay on edge when shooting with civilians at a range or out in a pasture? I just don't trust a lot of them with gun safety. Too often I see 1 or more of the safety rules violated. Either the weapon not being treated as though it were loaded, or people being flagged comstantly (which makes me want to break their arm off and shove it up their...), weapons not on safe, etc. I can't be the only veteran out here that gets a little paranoid while shooting aroind civilians.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 4 at 2015 12:03 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 00:03:53 -0500

I loath it. Seen way to much stupid to be comfortable. Thus, why I built a range at my In Laws.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 4 at 2015 12:04 AM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 00:04:07 -0500

Of course, also recently the famous Navy Seal Sniper was killed at a gun range. having said that there are civilians who have more experience than many of those in the military. I am on edge on any range, especially being a RSO and running quite a few of them.

I think vetting ranges beforehand is key!

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Jan 4 at 2015 12:17 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 00:17:23 -0500

I'll be straight up with you -- and I don't mean any disrespect at all -- but on a civilian gun range, I've found the biggest offenders to be Marines, followed by regular veterans. Civilians have actually been the least of my heart-attack problems.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 12:33 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 00:33:46 -0500

I have the good fortune to live in a part of the country with plenty of public land. I don't shoot at ranges. I go out to a gravel pit that's used for maintaining logging roads. I go with friends or relatives, or by myself with my kids. Makes me a lot more comfortable.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 12 at 2015 5:38 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:38:20 -0400

I'm vigilant when I shoot with anyone, veteran, civilian, active, American, afghan. It's a sliding scale based on risk and trust. My trust never extends beyond having a ready mag of glasers or jhp ready to shoot bad actors with the pistol I'm actively shooting. Preferably I'll have a dedicated condition 1 pistol for this, role not just a mag, while shooting another pistol, rifle or shotgun, and a trustworthy buddy standing overwatch while I shoot, then me for him.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 12 at 2015 5:47 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:47:32 -0400

It's natural to be on edge when around others you don't know who have lethal gear. Range safety levels can vary. The club I was a member at served a lot of military and law enforcement, hence was "military" in operation, real range officers and not the one guy in the shed drinking coffee. Comfort level was good. Interesting enough, over the years several specific safety measures were added, e.g. chamber flag. The reason? Liability and the need to keep insurance costs less than horrific.

A number of members quit the club because the "safety" was taking too much time such as the range officer walking the line to check every chamber flag was in place. Things do take more time but clubs have limited resources and if you want to shoot there, it's their rules. Bottom line, my experience with clubs is they're much safer places to be now than 20 years ago.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 13 at 2015 3:42 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:42:42 -0400

It depends on the civilians question. I feel a bit paranoid in the first place at ranges where there is not a safety officer present on the range when it's hot. How the civilians in question handle themselves usually will determine my level of comfort. If it's obvious that they are former military, law enforcement or otherwise act like they know how to handle a firearm safely and know range safety rules, I'm not as disturbed. But I've also been out on the range when it's obvious that the folks next to me have no prior training or experience. that's when I really start to worry.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 6:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:32:06 -0400

I usually shoot with a group of FFL holders, given the about of money they've dropped into their toys, they are all about safety. Some of us are military and law enforcement, but the majority are doctors, lawyers, and engineers. The range we use is a private club with designated areas for pistols, rifles, shotguns, and buzz guns. I haven't used any of the other areas but the the lanes I've fired on always have a range safety unless you're there solo or less than three shooters.
I will say that the reasons for shooting are different. The big money guys seem to shoot for the same reason they have a maseratti, just because. Whereas the military and law enforcement usually have some reason, self defence, communists, democrats(majority), republicans(vocal minority), the tri lateral commission, NWO, or, like me, the inevitable zombie apocalypse. Yes, I know submachine guns aren't the optimal tool for fighting zombies, but I have it, I'm gonna use it.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Apr 13 at 2015 7:02 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:02:59 -0400

I'm that way with everyone I shoot with, both civilians and veterans. Everyone, including me, is subject to a brain fart now & then. Stay paranoid, but not so paranoid it takes the fun out of it.

Response by PFC Justin Horne made Apr 13 at 2015 7:54 PM

PFC Justin Horne — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:54:29 -0400

I feel the same way, even driving on the same roads as them.

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Apr 13 at 2015 8:32 PM

SFC Stephen Hester — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:32:01 -0400

The range I shoot at has range safety officers. Most of them are current/former cops but there are a few former military, too. Never had a problem with range safety.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Apr 13 at 2015 9:24 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 21:24:08 -0400

When I think of military training, then in country I would occasionally have concerns of friendly fire accidents, so why should civilian ranges or hunting be any different except in civilian ranges etc you can leave and return when the idiots are done or gone. I do prefer the wide open desolate shooting area's

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 13 at 2015 10:34 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 22:34:44 -0400

Civilians? How about anyone paranoid when shooting? I have seen just as much dangerous craziness within the ranks as I have outside. A CSM trying to see if he can take off his own thumb by improperly holding a pistol...because he was really old school and had learned to fire handguns with revolvers...I am assuming? A Wisconsin National Guards man doing live fire lanes training and drifting out of his lane into another person...mine...not cool. A tired soldier resting his head on the barrel of his M-60 while riding in the back of deuce and a half and for getting to clear the weapon...that one was lucky because it was blanks and his eye were closed.

Just like the most deadly tool in our Nation, the automobile, you don't only need to be concerned with what you are doing, but you need to be watching out for every other idiot out there.

Response by MAJ Jeff Williams made Jan 6 at 2018 2:50 PM

MAJ Jeff Williams — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:50:02 -0500

I feel safer around a bunch of civilians who practice the sport out of self-motivated interest than on a range full of commissioned officers with pistols they barley touch annually...