SSG Private RallyPoint Member 71937 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Should new Soldiers prior to reporting to their first duty station be allowed to remain in with permanent profiles?&amp;nbsp; When i enlisted in 2000 I never heard of a permanent profile for two years.&amp;nbsp; Why is there so many in the training recruitment world that we receive Soldiers on temporary and permanent profiles before their first duty station?&amp;nbsp; Will the Army turn this into a rotating door to reduce the force?&amp;nbsp; Can the Army survive with a bunch of broke 18-25 yr olds??? 2014-03-08T09:45:32-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 71937

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Should new Soldiers prior to reporting to their first duty station be allowed to remain in with permanent profiles?&amp;nbsp; When i enlisted in 2000 I never heard of a permanent profile for two years.&amp;nbsp; Why is there so many in the training recruitment world that we receive Soldiers on temporary and permanent profiles before their first duty station?&amp;nbsp; Will the Army turn this into a rotating door to reduce the force?&amp;nbsp; Can the Army survive with a bunch of broke 18-25 yr olds???

2014-03-08T09:45:32-05:00 2014-03-08T09:45:32-05:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 71939

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think they are good for 5 years,! And yes they come from another place or Unit and they keep it!

2014-03-08T09:47:56-05:00 2014-03-08T09:47:56-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 71969

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree with you that I also didn't know about permanent profiles during my first few years in the Army.  We just kind of sucked it up, took Motrin, and drank water!  We did have a few of those "sick call rangers" who tended to go to sick call before field training, an APFT, etc.  Most of us didn't think very highly of those who wouldn't just suck it up, but looking back, none of us really had any basis to form that opinion as we were completely unaware of whether those Soldiers had legitimate medical needs.<div><br></div><div>Anyway, back to your original question, I do think we can allow new Soldiers to serve with these permanent profiles from the beginning.  It does seem a little off to me, but the Army has established medical requirements for each MOS, and as long as a Soldier meets those requirements, they should be allowed to serve in that MOS.  Most jobs in the Army can be accomplished, regardless of how many push-ups and sit-ups you can do in two minutes, or how fast you can run 2 miles.</div><div><br></div><div>One other thing I have learned is that the Army cannot use permanent profiles as a force reduction tool.  The fact that the Soldier has a permanent profile signifies that a Medical Doctor has reviewed the Soldier's limiting medical condition to determine whether that Soldier can still perform hie or her duties IAW the MOS requirements.  In the event that a Soldier has a condition that may prevent them from performing their duties, the condition must be reviewed by a medical evaluation board to determine whether the Soldier is medically qualified or needs to be discharged.  If they have been determined fit for duty, even with a permanent profile, the Army cannot legally discharge that individual on those grounds.</div><div><br></div><div>Once a Soldier gets a permanent profile, that profile is reviewed every five years, I think during the PHA.  From my understanding, the new rules dictate that permanent profiles do not expire after 5 years.  They remain valid indefinitely but are reviewed every 5 years.  If the medical condition no longer exists when it is reevaluated, then the profile is lifted.</div>

2014-03-08T10:59:42-05:00 2014-03-08T10:59:42-05:00 WO1 Private RallyPoint Member 71980

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is one part of the Army I still don't understand. I know of someone who is constantly on a "whatever you can do" perm. profile and when it comes to record APFT, they will score damn near 300 every time. Now I don't know about everyone else, but when I tore my calf and was on a solid profile, I was not ready for an APFT nore ready to score a 300.

2014-03-08T11:26:18-05:00 2014-03-08T11:26:18-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 72015

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>WTU and if they don't recover.... get out. Its not helping no one at that point

2014-03-08T12:56:23-05:00 2014-03-08T12:56:23-05:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 72017

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;How new Soldiers get permanent profiles prior to reporting to their first duty station is a mystery to me.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;MEPS has the duty to examine potential recruits to see if they have any conditions that may be detrimental to Military service, or conditions that may develop with the rigors of Military training.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Basic Combat Training is also another method of catching undisclosed conditions and ailments.&amp;nbsp; When I went through BCT, if you were not present (quarters, sick call, etc.) for or missed a certain amount of training, you were recycled.&amp;nbsp; Recycle too many times and you were booted.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;AIT, in general is not as physically rigorous as BCT.&amp;nbsp; If Soldiers are legitimately injured to the point of requiring a permanent profile, and can still perform their MOS, then fine.&amp;nbsp; However, those who ride multiple successive profiles in order to &quot;sham&quot; should be separated.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Regulations do provide for those who fail to take two record APFTs within a year-- separation.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;If a Soldier arrives at his/her first duty station with a duty-limiting permanent profile, that Soldier should be chaptered.&amp;nbsp; We no longer have the luxury of holding onto broken Soldiers so that we have a designated floor mopper or paper shredder.&amp;nbsp; As unit MTOEs shrink with our budget, every slot is valuable and should be filled with a Soldier who can perform the duty s/he is occupying the slot for.&lt;/p&gt;

2014-03-08T13:01:26-05:00 2014-03-08T13:01:26-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 72108

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My opinion it should be completely MOS dependent. If you are on permanent profile, you dont need to be combat arms. Go elsewhere)

2014-03-08T18:20:25-05:00 2014-03-08T18:20:25-05:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 73014

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Being in a TRADOC environment, I see exactly where you are coming from. I, too wonder why a Soldier that has not completed IET should have a permanent profile. Isn't this part of the weeding out process? Once the INITIAL ENTRY period is over, I get it. The other thing that irks me is when these Soldiers are MEB'd, especially when they are medically retired at 70%+, yet don't even have a MOS. I've seen so many Soldiers that have served their country honorably for years, that are kicked out with 20% and severance, that have done their jobs well, deployed and had to endure actual hardships.<br><br>It had always been my understanding that a full APFT (no alternate events) was required to be able to leave AIT. I can see if they had an injury and had a temporary profile after their AIT. However, I remember Soldiers not being able to graduate because they couldn't take an APFT. They either got better or were separated. <br><br>To answer your question, my PERSONAL opinion is NO. If something requires a permanent profile before exiting AIT, they should be separated. Military service is not promised to anyone, and they must meet certain standards. Otherwise, why else would MEPS even bother with the physicals?<br>

2014-03-10T14:46:35-04:00 2014-03-10T14:46:35-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 75578

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am curious as to why you think a leader is better depending on their PULHES. I&#39;ve met many people who thought they were leaders because they got a 300 apft, but in fact couldn&#39;t lead themselves out of a wet paper bag, while a Soldier may not be able to run, but at the same time appears more like a Soldier than one who does cardio all the time. What is your opinion and correlation between the quality of a leader and their ability to do pt?

2014-03-13T22:59:07-04:00 2014-03-13T22:59:07-04:00 SFC William Swartz Jr 75591

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;Because an individual has a permanent profile does not make them less of a leader, any more than it makes&amp;nbsp;an individual that can score 300+ a better leader. Do not lump an individual with a permanent profile into that category because you may have experienced an individual like that in your personal dealings. I had a permanent profile on my knees for the final 6 years of my career, the only thing I could not do any more was run great distances, this did not mean that I did not perform the other tasks associated with the jobs that I held. That is an individual thing that one does or does not chose to do, I have seen plenty of individuals that did not have permanent profiles do the very things you chose to associate with profile holders, simply put a bag of shit is a bag of shit whether they are on profile or not. I and many like me still had experience and skills that the Army valued in wanting to keep us around. I would worry more about the individuals that do not have the discipline to live the Army Values and continue to disgrace the uniform that they wear than those that honorably serve but may not be able to run anymore or do a pushup or a sit-up because of an injury or illness that they suffered while serving.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &quot;TREAT &#39;EM ROUGH!!!&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

2014-03-13T23:19:45-04:00 2014-03-13T23:19:45-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 75598

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;SGT Swanson,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I think this would need to be a case by case basis. Over the past few decades I have seen many great leaders who have permanent profiles. 90% of these were senior NCOs who can still do their jobs but have broken their bodies during their years of service. I would gladly keep these great men and everyone one of them deployed. Now if you are talking about non-deployables, who were not injured during the war, then yes I think it would be a good place to look reducing our numbers. &lt;/p&gt;

2014-03-13T23:23:07-04:00 2014-03-13T23:23:07-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75616

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;SGT Swanson,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Apparently you have a real misconception in regards to the Permanent profiles.&amp;nbsp;I for one have been on a permanent profile since 2005. As you can see from my picture, I have been serving proudly and have had no issues that have stopped me from&amp;nbsp;performing my job and deploying. I have had cancer, 3 major hip surgeries as well as a couple of minor surgeries. I&#39;m still capable of running with my soldiers, motivating them everyday and leading from the front. The&amp;nbsp;fact that I have a P2 profile is basis enough for you to think I should be removed from the military. Not a single one of my Doctors think I should be removed from the Military and they surpass you in rank and experience for the Army.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are numerous other Soldiers that should be removed from Military service, prior to those on permanent profiles. If the profile renders you incapable of doing your job in the Military, that is one thing. But if an individual is still capable of performing their job while on profile, there is no reason to push them out. Lets push the Soldiers that are the trouble makers out. The soldiers that don&#39;t want to be in the military and those that are just a drain on the unit, push them out of the Military.&lt;/p&gt;

2014-03-13T23:41:15-04:00 2014-03-13T23:41:15-04:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 75733

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you&#39;re going to judge a leader&#39;s worth by his ability to run, than you might as well judge him by his ability to finger paint or roller skate because all three have equal bearing in terms of leadership ability... None whatsoever.

2014-03-14T08:35:13-04:00 2014-03-14T08:35:13-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75769

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have seen this idea come up several times in the past.  My stock answer is this:  Would you push this idea if you knew you were going to have an accident tomorrow that would leave you on a permanent profile?  If yes, then great.  If not, do not push it on those who are already on profile.  We never know what the next day can bring, and that next day can certainly lead to an accident that leaves us on a permanent profile.  I know if I was go permanent tomorrow I would not want to be pushed out of the military, especially if I could still do my job. 

2014-03-14T09:43:06-04:00 2014-03-14T09:43:06-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75778

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>had a permanent profile for hearing since 2007 conducted a MMRB back in 2008 and received my results in 2009. was able to keep my MOS and deploy and perform my duties with the soldiers that I trained. It depends on the type of profile they have, yes there are people out there on permanent profile not able to do a thing waiting on the MEB process. Have you seen the average wait time to put a soldier out on a MEB. Then you also have soldier who go and get temporary profiles every time a pt test comes around.

2014-03-14T09:48:39-04:00 2014-03-14T09:48:39-04:00 PV2 Private RallyPoint Member 131293

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>From myself who Just finished training and have now gone to my first station, alot of it is these wanna be tough guys, (myself included) try to ignore an injury when its not severe because they dont want to "recycle" at BCT and end up injurying themselves ten times worse because some DS dont pay close enough attention too it or they hide it well

2014-05-20T21:30:37-04:00 2014-05-20T21:30:37-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 155248

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My Ait will be 53 weeks long, If God forbid, I get hurt I have plenty of time to do so. Should I be kicked out just cause I picked a longer "trail" period?

2014-06-16T04:16:48-04:00 2014-06-16T04:16:48-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 184539

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I actually work as a Case Manager for the Army national Guard in my civilian life, and profiles are all I deal with, every single day; so believe me when I say that a permanent profile, by itself, is not ever supposed to get you removed from the service. If you have an allergy that is severe enough to require an Epi-pen, you must have a permanent profile. Folliculitis? Permanent no shave profile. Snapped your hip and now you cannot run, but it does not otherwise inhibit you from performing your MOS? Permanent no run profile with alternate event. If your profile makes your PULHES a 3, you must go to a medical board where they will determine whether you are retainable or not; that is a panel of doctors who know the regulations and will review your case and all it's supporting documents and determine if you are fit for duty with or without limitations.<br /><br />Just because you have a permanent profile does not mean you cannot soldier. In some cases, a person who will take years to recover from an injury can be placed on permanent profile; the profile will then be reviewed as the case requires and hopefully one day it will be expired. Think of it another way: you are a fresh faced 18 year old, on your way to your first duty station when you get into an accident. It causes all kinds of damage, and now you cannot do sit-ups or the run; should you have your entire future career ended because someone else made a mistake? You can still soldier, it will just take years for you to be able to run again(not to be confused with sprinting for cover. A two mile run and a 50 meter dash are two separate lines on a profile.) should you be kicked out, even though you are otherwise a good soldier?

2014-07-23T12:47:38-04:00 2014-07-23T12:47:38-04:00 SSgt Private RallyPoint Member 253672

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The short answer to the original question is no. The broken and non-deployable servicemen only burden the active duty forces who do have to deploy. Those who can't meet the needs of an expeditionary force need to be chaptered or medically retired. There are special cases to be sure that a Commander should take into advisement but brand new soldiers need to be fit to fight not broke and sick.

2014-09-24T11:58:00-04:00 2014-09-24T11:58:00-04:00 SGT Kristin Wiley 331250

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you get to your first duty station with a permanent profile, something must have happened during Basic/AIT that resulted in this. The military has already spent money to train you thus far, and if you meet retention standards you should be fully capable of performing your duties. Sure it may look bad, but I imagine the Army wants to keep semi-broken 18-25 year olds then semi-broken 50-60 year olds (leadership needs aside). Someone with the same permanent profile who is younger can typically withstand more rigors of war then someone older. If they retain you the Army gets their money&#39;s worth, if they don&#39;t you get disability for essentially doing nothing.

2014-11-17T17:00:28-05:00 2014-11-17T17:00:28-05:00 PV2 David Minnicks 354064

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Based on quite a few of the trending posts there seems to be a number of active SM that really have some deep rooted issues with active SM having a permanent profile? I realize it has been close to three decades since I served but a SM with a P2 profile was not viewed as any less a soldier than one without a profile. Those that had profiles when I served did PT with the company or battalion but they had modified PT to fit their profile. These were mostly combat veterans or our senior NCO and Officers who soldiered beyond what their bodies could physically withstand. We looked up to these SM's and I don't remember the animosity that I am seeing in these discussions. Has PT changed where those having a profile are treated so differently that it is causing this animosity? The only active SM's that I remember receiving animosity such as this were active SM who couldn't or didn't meet their body fat standards and this changed where they became accepted just before I left the service. I am hopeful that the mindset of those who perceive active SM's having a permanent profile were given a profile and not medically discharged since they do add value and that they are no less a SM as they are regardless of their age or if they were in combat or not. Seems to me that these were actually the SM's that were stronger mentally and physically than those that could max their PT tests.

2014-12-03T22:31:11-05:00 2014-12-03T22:31:11-05:00 SSG Lucas Solie 438637

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Profiles have always been a big concern for leadership. I am currently in a WTU and there is a civilian who's soul purpose is to go over your profile. After doing so she goes through with the SM and explains what excersizes they can perform. A T-3 or P-3 of course has limitations. However there are plenty of excersizes that can be performed to maintain physical readiness.

2015-01-27T11:10:05-05:00 2015-01-27T11:10:05-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 978200

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well i have been in the army for 10 years and have always done very well on apft. Recently i suffered a major achilles injury and was told by my doctor i may never be able to run two miles again in the time alotted for me. I dont know if there are other things that i can do other than the run. Im worried because i dont want this injury to ruin my career. Any help or response would be appreciated. How do permenant profiles worm and will if effect my ncoer and promotions?

2015-09-19T17:47:36-04:00 2015-09-19T17:47:36-04:00 AB Private RallyPoint Member 1575186

<div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-91930"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fpermanent-profiles%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Permanent+Profiles%3F&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fpermanent-profiles&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0APermanent Profiles?%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/permanent-profiles" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="c3909ae29cd0c7c438e3c54ef39c748c" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/091/930/for_gallery_v2/43845aea.png"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/091/930/large_v3/43845aea.png" alt="43845aea" /></a></div></div>mohd nadeem

2016-05-30T08:23:53-04:00 2016-05-30T08:23:53-04:00 Kevin Mckeefery 2977406

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I enlisted around November 2002. My Sgt. First Class recruiter said I was &quot;the leader&quot; - not a good one. He went on to explain how i had every mental illness in the book and was able to work muscles harder and sustain more torture. Sadly I bought in about 15%. I hope that is highballing it. <br />Has anyone ever heard of this mental defective army profile?<br />Please keep the molestation to minimum. I&#39;m serial. ;)

2017-10-07T01:03:35-04:00 2017-10-07T01:03:35-04:00 MSG Thomas Currie 8077345

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The Army (and all the services) have always had new recruits with permanent profiles ever since the profile system was invented in WWII to even out the way draftees were distributed among the services. <br /><br />You say you never heard of a permanent profile when you came in?!? Think back (or dig out any photo of your Basic Training unit) -- do you remember anyone in the unit wearing glasses? Anyone wearing glasses had a permanent profile. If you had a full 220 recruits in your basic training company, probably at least 20+ of them had some sort of permanent profile.<br /><br />In fact, YOU had a permanent profile! EVERYONE has a profile from the day they complete their initial entrance medical exam until the day they are discharged. Your profile was apparently 111111 which simply means that the doctors didn&#39;t find anything wrong that required any limitations. Someone with glasses would have a 111121 profile. The profile system is a series of numeric codes under a system characterized as PLUHES which is an abbreviation for physical capacity/stamina (P), upper extremities (U), lower extremities (L), hearing and ears (H), eyes (E), and psychiatric (S).<br /><br />When you talk about someone having &quot;a profile&quot; what you aren&#39;t talking about their profile but actually whining about is someone who has medical restrictions that you don&#39;t like because you think it gets them out of something that you have to do.<br /><br />If the Army demanded everyone be a perfect physical specimen to get in, they&#39;d be missing their recruiting goals by far more than they are now.

2023-01-11T15:32:11-05:00 2023-01-11T15:32:11-05:00 2014-03-08T09:45:32-05:00