Police from Chicago and St Louis shoot, kill and remove two threats from our country - are we better off today?

2015-04-18T14:01:26-04:00

I'm going to push to get the pulse across our Rally Point Force here, I really want your feedback and limited the survey option to really get your feeling, I ask that you chose one of these three choices.

Two incidents of Law Enforcement Agents shooting and killing armed persons that were a direct threat to them. One incident happened in Chicago and one in the St. Louis area. Though both are different, the end result was the same....Police Officers responded to a threat and the perp refused to comply - are we better off, did the Officers take advantage of engaging the perps as moving (breathing) targets or is it an example of them removing the threat and we are all better off for the actions taken?

The (St. Louis) Law Enforcement Team was well aware of the threat and tried to talk the subject out of a confrontation in the first link (video below & see the second link for the story).

The Chicago Law Enforcement Team responded after hearing gun shots, he pointed a gun at the officers and was told to drop it. She said one officer fired two shots.

Was this really a couple cases of "suicide by cop"?

We have many professionals amongst us that are current or previously serving and protecting our communities after serving in the military - I value your feedback as your perspective is one that I (and most) do not know first hand as we have not walked in your shoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqfXpxGWj4o

http://news.yahoo.com/officers-shoot-kill-man-knife-st-louis-suburb-153024453.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-shot-killed-chicago-officer-30409416

Tact Officer Involved Shooting

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-04-18T14:05:26-04:00

Whole heartedly agree with use of lethal force.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 18 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-04-18T14:15:27-04:00

There is a ton of information that I do not have, and I was not in those situations...thank the Lord...I am not going to question what these officers did. I will say this, IF you have put yourself in a situation where law enforcement has their weapons drawn and ready to 'end' situation...the smart move is to comply with there demands.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Apr 18 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-04-18T14:17:52-04:00

"Suicide by cop" does seem fairly possible in at least one of these, but often the alternative to that is homocide ON cop if the cop doesn't take action. I think the cops did the right thing.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 18 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-04-18T15:42:09-04:00

I have nothing but respect for our police and refuse to be a part of some witch hunt and lump every bad shoot as a police problem. Burn the bad ones and conduct investigations using outside agencies BEFORE plastering it all over the world news.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-04-18T16:06:17-04:00

I understand both sides of the problem. Each situation should be dissected separately because no two incidents are the same. There are nonlethal options that could have easily subdued the suspect once he decided to charge. Whether or not the police department has these items is another discussion. Sticky foam is one option; bean bag propellants are another, and mace is another.

On another note, I do not like the biased media either. Reading the article it refers to "...white officer who fatally shot an unarmed black man in Ferguson ...," no mention of why the officer shot Brown and no mention of the "black officer who killed an unarmed white man (Dillon Taylor)" or black off-duty officer who killed an unarmed former white Marine (James Whitehead) for racial slurs. The only stories that the news peddles is what will sell and give them more coverage; which gets them more sponsors.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-04-18T16:56:31-04:00

I like this guy who is actually talking and not bullying and there are far too many cases where the cops simply muscle-up and knock people down. This officer is a model of what is right and the questions are fair and calm. The guy in LA who helps homeless and knows there problems mental healthwise. Compassion and less urban assault vehicles and respect, respect, respect.

As my father said, "You get more bees with honey". And on that I agree.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-04-18T21:57:07-04:00

CSM Michael J. Uhlig , police are trained to evaluate the situation, try to get the perp to get on the ground or hands up, and make a split decision whether he is in danger if the perp isn't obeying. If the cop has his weapon out and pointed at the perp, and the perp makes the wrong move, he's going to get shot. It doesn't matter if you're white, brown, or black. If the innocent citizens would pay attention to what there are being told and not reach in their pockets or auto, they would be less likely to get injured. A cop doesn't know who you are or anything about you when they stop you. You might be the greatest guy in the world and wouldn't hurt a fly, but if you don't listen, you might get hurt. On the news tonight a suspected murderer was ordered by a cop to stop, get on the ground, put their hands where he could see them. The perp actually ran towards the cop. I don't know how the cop did it, but he talked the perp down without firing a shot. So, it can be done without firing your weapon, but it's very rare these days.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-04-18T22:25:16-04:00

There really should be an "Other, please explain," category. Here's why:

I try not to speculate on officer-involved shootings based on the preliminary accounts in the media. It is not fair to anyone involved; not to the family grieving the loss of the individual who was shot; not to the officer who's every decision and action as a professional is now being scrutinized and second-guessed by lawyers and investigators; and certainly not to the deceased, who's true intent or frame of mind can never be ascertained.

The only thing that can come of things right now are salacious headlines and rampant speculation in the media. What does this serve? To prolong the anguish and suffering of a bereaved family? To sully the reputation of an upstanding public servant? Other than to sell papers and generate ratings, these are the only things that CAN happen at this point. And this is why I refrain from speculating until I hear the investigation has been finalized.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 19 at 2015 12:29 AM

2015-04-19T00:29:27-04:00

CSM Michael J. Uhlig I would like to say we are better off... But, that would not be reasonable or professional.

Most folks have no idea that there are real threats and bad guys are out there... and that police are in real danger every day. Most have no earthly idea the little amount of time (seconds or less) that a police officer has to decide where to shoot/don't shot. Hesitation can be deadly.

I am not advocating or supporting murder by police. I do believe every police officer must e completely transparent and accountable for their actions; especially with regards to use of force. But, I know there is more to this. Most people that have opinions on this have and will never be in those shoes.

Suicide by cop is a very real thing.

As a career military policeman, I (we) always knew, if I use deadly force, I alone had to be able explain my actions, and they always had to pass the NY Times test.

No one likes police (Military Police) until something goes wrong, and then they can't get there fast enough.