Political discussions on social media/networking: is it appropriate on a military site like RallyPoint?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:54:51 -0500

This question seems to have a simple answer:<div>1. When in uniform, refrain from political speech. This is the standard.</div><div>2. Everyone on RallyPoint is representing him/herself as a Service-member.</div><div>3. So, there should be no "political speech" on RallyPoint.</div><div><br></div><div>What are the more nuanced views out there?</div><div><br></div><div>EDIT: Retired SMs and Veterans (no longer serving) are not covered under UCMJ and therefore fall under the full protection of the First Amendment; thanks to everyone for bringing this point to light. </div><div><br></div><div>Also, I think Reserve SMs cannot be held liable for political speech when they are not in a duty status, which is quite different from active duty SMs. The gray area of social media remains, in which we represent ourselves as SMs regardless of our contemporaneous duty status. Personally, I would never want my social media speech to be the subject of an Article 15, GOMR, or court-martial. My goal in this discussion is to get people to share views on how far the boundaries go.</div>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 4 at 2014 2:56 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:56:38 -0500

You raise a great argument. Alright, you've convinced me, no more politics!

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 4 at 2014 3:08 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:08:01 -0500

<p>When you say this is the standard, what standard are you referencing?</p><p>Follow up point; not everyone on RP is representing themselves as service members in uniform.  There are civilians, prior service, and retiree's on this site.</p>

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Mar 4 at 2014 3:17 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:17:43 -0500

Political discussions are a slippery slope.  What may start out as meaningful, insightful and thought-provoking, can very easily spiral downward into bashing, personal attacks and conduct unbecoming.  Some folks are very passionate about their political views.  Passionate posts can be received and interpreted many ways.  Personally, I do not believe that this is the proper forum to discuss politics.  Granted, I have chimed in from time to time on those type of discussions, but I try not make it a habit.  Political discussions can bring out the worst in some people.  And in this day in age, with the amount of media exposure Soldiers are getting for "stepping on it" on social media, I believe it is better to error on caution and pass on those political discussions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 7:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 19:23:09 -0500

Sir, I would venture to say that Political Discussion is healthy. Using your official capacity to influence political thoughts, policies is wrong. You may well be making the case to continue using "anonymous" accounts. 

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 7:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 19:42:11 -0500

The applicable regulation (or, one of them) appears to be DoD Directive 1344.10, February 19, 2008. The specific provision applicable to current Service-members is paragraph <span style="font-size: 13px;">4.1.5., which reads "Activities not expressly prohibited may be contrary to the spirit and intent of this </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Directive. Any activity that may be reasonably viewed as directly or indirectly associating the </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Department of Defense or the Department of Homeland Security (in the case of the Coast Guard) </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">or any component of these Departments with a partisan political activity or is otherwise contrary </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">to the spirit and intention of this Directive shall be avoided."</span><div><br></div><div>It is common knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) that uniformed Service-members certainly cannot speak at political events (i.e. a Ron Paul rally), and are, at least, strongly discouraged from even attending such events in uniform.</div><div><br></div><div>My argument is that on this forum any Service-member (currently serving, at least) "directly or indirectly associat[es] the [DOD]" with their speech. You likely wouldn't, or shouldn't, tolerate your Soldiers engaging in partisan political speech in formation, so it should not happen here.</div><div><br></div><div>A second argument is based on risk; you risk repercussions for political speech in public (and social media is public...and permanent), and the cost for avoiding that risk is low.</div><div><br></div><div>http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf<br></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf"></a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">l²Öm\Þ
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Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 11:39 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 23:39:46 -0500

While I understand the concerns and various pitfalls, it is my understanding that discussing politics is okay. There are numerous do's and don'ts associated with it, though. Officers, are more restricted in what they can actually say and who they can critique. Us enlisted folk have a few more freedoms, as long as we respect all of those within our chain of command, to include the Commander in Chief.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the guidelines is to not campaign while in uniform. Making a speech and discussing are two different things. Discussing politics can be a good thing. Having held a chair in a my county party in the past, politics has been a huge part of my life, since I was much younger. I especially love discussions with those I do not agree with, as I see things differently and believe we all leave the conversation with a greater insight. There is so much going on these days, I can hardly keep up.

With that being said, I am sadly in a bit of agreement for restricting discussion of politics in a forum such as this. While politics plays a huge part in our lives, many are firm in their beliefs and will defend them no matter what. I can see it becoming heated and ugly, even if it started with the best of intentions. It only takes one to lose their cool to set off a firestorm. I have also given up trying to discuss politics in a manner that is not face to face, as things often come across differently in writing than when face to face.

As long as it is done civilly, I have no problems reading what others have to say, though I can't say that I'd participate. There are way too many discretions that must be taken, thus restricting what can be said freely. If everyone can't participate on the same level, I see it as unfair. It will be a bit lopsided when no one can express dislike for the current President, thus almost eliminating one sides argument.

Bottom line, discussion is good in a controlled environment, where you know the participants and are kept within a certain similar audience. We are too diverse for that on here.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 12:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 00:22:47 -0500

I would recommend staying away from it. That tends to be a very touchy subject and since we are not supposed to talk about it in this type of setting you would be laying with fire.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 12:54 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 00:54:59 -0500

Absolutely there should be political discussion. The caveat is that it should always be respectful of the members of our CoC, which includes POTUS regardless of our sundry opinions of him. If you're representing the military, you should have the same professional deference for the CinC that you would have for your CO.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 1:08 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 01:08:30 -0500

<p>Sir,</p><p> </p><p>I agree. My question would be, how can we increase our common understanding of world events without crossing the line into a political discussion. I think that its important that SMs stay "up to speed" on whats happening in the world (Crimea, Syria, North Korea, Iran etc). In my oppinion, an informed force is a more capable one.  So how can we stay informed and promote discussion of these events without crossing the line?</p>

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Mar 5 at 2014 5:21 AM

CPT Richard Riley — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 05:21:20 -0500

I would hope that common sense prevails in this case. While no one can take away the right to have a personal opinion, we all must bear in mind that the word 'personal' is juxtaposed with opinion. You're entitled to that opinion. In a forum such as this or any forum that is connected (however loosely) back to DOD, standards and ethics apply to each service member. Sometimes I have to remember that just because I can does not mean that I should. Expressing a political opinion may not always accomplish what you intended but could create a worse situation for you in the long run. I would leave the 'politics' at the door & keep RallyPoint's purpose intact. RallyPoint's purpose states that it was created to help make military life better & connects its members to give them the best tools possible to succeed both while in the military, and beyond.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Mar 5 at 2014 9:31 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 09:31:24 -0500

As long as you are not pushing your influence on to your subordients I believe political talk is very important online and at the work place. Everything in the military should be done with tact. Although we cannot go and outright show our disppointments with law makers, we still need to develop well rounded and learned personnel throughout the ranks. How do you have voting booths and voting registration but expect no one to speak about politics? How do you make healthy career choices about re-enlisting, and other imporatant life decisions without asking how political motions affect you? At the end of it all we all have to take this uniform off at some point, and that means we should have an understanding of how politics work. It would be foolish to not develop our understanding of how politics affect us, and not push our subordients to do the same.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Mar 7 at 2014 10:25 AM

1SG Eric Rice — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:25:17 -0500

Political discussions in my opinion are appropriate. We are a professional military and should be able to have meaningful professional discussions on many topics to include politics. A professional discussion does not mean that bashing of ones political beliefs are appropriate and should be frowned upon. We should however respect each others opinions and improve our communication skills along the way by having controversial conversations without fear of condemnation. That being said you should not go to political rallies and/or a public place to take a stance for your political beliefs in uniform as that can be misleading as representing the military. With peers it should not be an issue in my humble opinion. <br>

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Mar 7 at 2014 4:05 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:05:25 -0500

I will point out that this is not a public forum. 

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 24 at 2014 9:11 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:11:47 -0400

I agree that if you are still serving and wearing the uniform of your respective service then you should refrain from political discourse. You also have a great many of us on here though that are retired or veterans who are able to vent, discuss, talk about political subjects a little more freely. I suppose the most intelligent thing would be to not have any political discussions so that those currently serving don't get themselves in a bind by commenting in one way or another.

Response by SGT William B. made Mar 24 at 2014 9:27 AM

SGT William B. — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:27:19 -0400

Sir,<br><br>I think this thread is pretty appropriate to address the elephant in the room, that being while Rallypoint is meant to be a site for professional development, networking, and for servicemembers transitioning to civilian life, the discussion boards are flooded with topics like "Here are the new 670-1 regs, aren't they dumb? hurr hurr" drivel that in the big scheme of things, really don't matter.<br><br>To me, the politics are superfluous here.  I'll save my views for the water cooler chats.  What I want out of this site is to learn from other servicemembers how to start my own business and take advantage of the resources provides to soldiers that are transitioning.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 24 at 2014 3:31 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 15:31:01 -0400

I believe that the free exchange of ideas is what makes this country great. Why shouldn't we as either service members, retirees, or veterans share our thoughts on politics? I saw a sign in a VA clinic that stated the members of the staff are not allowed to discuss politics while on duty, this same thinking can also be applied to people on active duty, save political conversations for the off duty hours. Yes, I know that you are always on call and as such are on duty pretty much 24/7/7365. But still there are times when it may be permissible to have this type of conversation.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Apr 18 at 2014 5:19 AM

Sgt Daniel V. — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 05:19:57 -0400

I do believe it is absolutely essential that service members have a venue in which to discuss politics because they can vote. We are the perfect audience. This is the perfect place to discuss issues with military SM and Vets to help push around ideas and issues that affect us all. Issues that will have an impact on members separating or retiring and especially currently serving. I am a voter and how will I know what to vote for when it comes to active duty members? Well here is the venue. This is not facebook and we are not children or uneducated. I would use and abuse this opportunity pick each others brains. Where else can you go to get this mix of views and ideas where its just us. 

Response by SSG Jim Handy made Apr 30 at 2014 12:05 PM

SSG Jim Handy — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 12:05:17 -0400

I would have a problem with any leader who would punish a soldier just for expressing a political view or opinion. Now, making a threat, name calling, or derogatory remarks would be a different story. You can express a disagreement with someone else's political views without badmouthing them.

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Apr 30 at 2014 12:29 PM

SFC Stephen Hester — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 12:29:13 -0400

Service members have a right to be involved in the political process and should be encouraged to discuss political matters in this or other social media. It's important to keep the discussion on the appropriate level, though. Regardless or one's personal opinions of the President or other elected officials the discussion should be professional and within the bounds of the UCMJ for those who are subject to it.

Disagreement is not disrespect as long as it's kept in the proper context.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made May 2 at 2014 1:38 AM

SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh — Fri, 02 May 2014 01:38:38 -0400

"Under paragraph 4.1.1 SMs on active duty may register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates, but not as a Service representative;"

Sir, I believe that no one here is trying to bill themselves as a service representative so as long as the political discussion stays away from subversion or personal slander then it should be acceptable.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made May 4 at 2014 2:42 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Sun, 04 May 2014 14:42:21 -0400

SSG McCulley does have a point. This is not a public forum. It requires proven credentials to get into the RP system.

That said, most of the comments I have seen are well thought out, respectful, constructive, and helpful. we seem to police our own when an inappropriate comment is made.

Atta' Persons for All! See how PC I've become.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2014 9:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:02:41 -0400

Everyone on RP is military or retired military, so what does it matter? It's not like we're in the public eye here. I think it's kind of nice being able to share and/or debate views with other service members. Maybe some of the people who are more ignorant or uneducated as far as politics goes will learn something and become informed.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Sep 27 at 2014 4:59 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 04:59:04 -0400

I have strong feelings about politics. I don't have a problem stating them. I have noticed one thing that I think is very funny though. My debate opponents typicaly namecall, blame or insult rather than discussing facts. Its been quite a while since I've had a good discussion with a Liberal.

I do have friends with complete opposite views (even a wife with one for that matter) so we avoid political conversation for that reason.

Having political discussions is the best way to learn what drives the other side. Also a good way to disprove the crap from mainstream media.

Response by Cpl Jordan Towers made Sep 27 at 2014 5:56 PM

Cpl Jordan Towers — Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:56:01 -0400

Political discussion is not banned in the service. Just remember to use common sense folks...

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Nov 9 at 2014 10:14 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:14:02 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member - Sir, I think any time you discuss anything touching on people's lives, politics will raise its ugly head. That said, there's nothing wrong with political debates as long as the discussion remains respectful on both parties' parts. As a general rule, I withdraw from the conversation when that line gets crossed.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Dec 4 at 2014 7:46 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Thu, 04 Dec 2014 19:46:00 -0500

I don't believe its appropriate to have political conversations here. Many of us are subject to UCMJ and some have their careers to think about. You can get into an area where you may be accused of "contempt toward officials". In social media, that's always a documented trail of your position on the issues. (You can't unring a bell once its been rung) it's not the headaches

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Mar 26 at 2015 1:48 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:48:15 -0400

It's useful, but I've also found it can turn quite toxic. One veteran group I'm in has banned it entirely because it was destroying cohesion and once one ideological group gains primacy, they start to hound everyone out.

For Service Members, I think it's extremely important that they remain cognizant of the fact that they are accountable. Want to tussle with a senior officer/NCO? Fine, but don't forget your place. If you could get hammered for saying it to their face, don't say it here. Also, know when it's best just to let someone have the last word and walk away. Oh yeah, and it's probably a good idea to contain criticism of government officials to policy disagreements, not attacks on their character.

For everyone, I think it's important to remember that we're all veterans. We all served in some capacity whether in war or peace and we all love our country. I may disagree with you strongly, but we really need to eschew the tactics the talking heads and politicians use of focusing hatred and dire accusations at those we disagree with.

I don't know you. I may think you're dead wrong. You're probably not evil and you probably love our country as much as I do. At the core, we probably want exactly the same things, we just disagree on how to get there. We just have different sets of blinders.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 2:09 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:09:18 -0400

Even as a retiree, I still try to stay away from political discussions. Perhaps not totally but I try to avoid anything that would embarrass me or the Army that I still consider myself a proud member of. Not saying I never had a gaffe, but I always ask myself "would I be ok if my post appeared on the front page of the NY Times?"

Response by MSgt John McGowan made May 2 at 2016 6:55 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Mon, 02 May 2016 18:55:09 -0400

MAJ. SIR my concern is that the military votes are counted. I understand a lot did't make it in time. I know it's a different subject but talk all you want but it does no good if it doesn't count. I would be careful what I posted on RP.