Professional haircut of Men and Women

2014-03-17T20:11:15-04:00

***** This issue was thoroughly discussed, and resolved. Current and future comments are becoming repetitive, irrelevant and serving no purpose but to bring it back up again. Thanks to SFC T and MSG Q for your input as well as others who provided valuable insight. See ya in the next discussion. ;+)

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 8:26 PM

2014-03-17T20:26:34-04:00

Quote the regulation where it states that females have to maintain a "feminine appearance" (whatever that means) and you might have a topic with contention.  I have a female MP PSG in my company whose appearance is similar to the above, and more power to her.  She's a great NCO and her personal choice of Army approved appearance is none of my concern.<br>

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Mar 17 at 2014 8:37 PM

2014-03-17T20:37:07-04:00

SSG Broadbent,<br><br>Why are you referring to female Soldiers as 'chicks'?  Is THAT what 'right sounds like'?<br><br>And who made YOU the morality police of a female 'looking feminine'?  What does that even mean?<br>

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 9:00 PM

2014-03-17T21:00:00-04:00

This is why I don't get bogged down in pointless AR 670-1 debates. Why on earth would would a woman shaving her head like a man be eccentric, excessive, or extreme?

Some career advice for you, take it or leave it, but you've got develop that filter wherein if an activity isn't immoral or unethical to sometimes just to let it go. I have all manner of pet peeves that I just look past on a given day because they aren't either of the two above situations.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 9:17 PM

2014-03-17T21:17:04-04:00

Back in 2009 my soldiers started complaining about one of the females soldiers in the squad that wouldn't shave her legs and armpits. I had males and females tell me to correct her. I told them I couldn't, because there's no regulation addressing that particular issue.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 10:08 PM

2014-03-17T22:08:22-04:00

SSG Broadbent,<div><br></div><div>I find it interesting that some don't consider this to be an extreme hairstyle.  When I was in BCT in 2011, a DS told us that females aren't allowed to have hairstyles resembling that of males because they're too extreme.  </div><div><br></div><div>Aside from the extreme aspect, I feel that not being able to tell a male from a female could cause problems in several ways.  </div>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 17 at 2014 10:22 PM

2014-03-17T22:22:20-04:00

AR 670-1

"Likewise, trendy styles that result in shaved portions of the scalp (other than the neckline) or designs cut into the hair are prohibited."

There you go in black and white. In reference to females, any portion of the scalp above the neckline being shaved is "trendy" and prohibited.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 11:34 PM

2014-03-17T23:34:09-04:00

We had a 1SG in AIT chew a soldier's ass for just that. Except the back had gotten just scruffy enough to look out of regs. Turns out it was a female, and when she finally choked a few words out the 1SG about lost his mind and had to walk away. Comical, for sure.

Truthfully, as long as it doesn't interfere with the uniform, and presents a neat and orderly military appearance, I don't think it matters if she shaved her head entirely.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2014 8:42 AM

2014-03-18T08:42:25-04:00

SSG Bubba, I got into a few embarrassing moments over these hair styles. I started chewing out a male for attempting to enter a female latrine with a group of females. Well, you know how the story went... Her reply took me by surprise: "it is ok, I understand (with a smile and non sarcastic). Since my office was near the latrine, every time she passed by and I did a double look she would say: "it is me again!"

One other time this Male soldier was wearing his ASU, but there was something odd about the uniform. The uniform fitted well but everything else looked aligned and odd at the same time. I finally realized that his pockets were slanted and was wearing a neck tab! I took a step forward with rage in my face and getting ready to dig into this Sergeant. Why in the world are you wearing a female uniform? I asked myself. As I got closer, my narrow mind finally kicked into gear. I did a rear march as fast as I could and left the group with a puzzled look in their face.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-03-18T13:31:55-04:00

I hate to say it, but it seems that you have a sexist bias when you say "What the hell ever happened to females having to maintain a feminine appearance?" I too have run into those situations where I saluted an Officer and said "Good morning, Sir" only to find out it was a female Officer. Mistakes like that happen, but we shouldn't force all women to meet whatever your idea of a feminine appearance may be. If a woman wants a high and tight, the let her have a high and tight. If she wants to have long hair and wear makeup, then she should. As long as the Soldier presents themselves in a neat, professional manner, then you have no place to say that they aren't feminine enough.

How would it make you feel if I told you to try to look more masculine?

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 18 at 2014 4:21 PM

2014-03-18T16:21:17-04:00

This is from the Army study Guide.

Female Hair Standards

Female soldiers will ensure their hair is neatly groomed, that the length and bulk of the hair are not excessive, and that the hair does not present a ragged, unkempt, or extreme appearance. Likewise, trendy styles that result in shaved portions of the scalp (other than the neckline) or designs cut into the hair are prohibited. Females may wear braids and cornrows as long as the braided style is conservative, the braids and cornrows lie snugly on the head, and any holding devices comply with the standards. Dreadlocks (unkempt, twisted, matted individual parts of hair) are prohibited in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Hair will not fall over the eyebrows or extend below the bottom edge of the collar at any time during normal activity or when standing in formation. Long hair that falls naturally below the bottom edge of the collar, to include braids, will be neatly and inconspicuously fastened or pinned, so no free-hanging hair is visible. This includes styles worn with the improved physical fitness uniform (IPFU).

Styles that are lopsided or distinctly unbalanced are prohibited. Ponytails, pigtails, or braids that are not secured to the head (allowing hair to hang freely), widely spaced individual hanging locks, and other extreme styles that protrude from the head are prohibited. Extensions, weaves, wigs, and hairpieces are authorized only if these additions have the same general appearance as the individual's natural hair. Additionally, any wigs, extensions, hairpieces, or weaves must comply with grooming policies.

Females will ensure that hairstyles do not interfere with proper wear of military headgear, protective masks, or equipment at any time. When headgear is worn, the hair will not extend below the bottom edge of the front of the headgear or below the bottom edge of the collar.

Hair-holding devices may be used only for securing the hair. Soldiers will not place hair-holding devices in the hair for decorative purposes. All hair-holding devices must be plain and of a color as close to the soldier's hair as is possible or clear. Authorized devices include, but are not limited to, small, plain scrunchies (elastic hair bands covered with material), barrettes, combs, pins, clips, rubber bands, and hair bands. Devices that are conspicuous, excessive or decorative are prohibited. Some examples of prohibited devices include, but are not limited to, large, lacy scrunchies; beads, bows, or claw clips; clips, pins, or barrettes with butterflies, flowers, sparkles, gems, or scalloped edges; and bows made from hairpieces.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2014 4:28 PM

2014-03-18T16:28:28-04:00

AR 670-1 page 3, paragraph 1-8

The requirement for hair grooming standards is necessary to maintain uniformity within a military population. Many hairstyles are acceptable, as long as they are neat and conservative. It is not possible to address every acceptable hairstyle, or what constitutes eccentric or conservative grooming. Therefore, it is the responsibility of leaders at all levels to exercise good judgment in the enforcement of Army policy.

then it goes on to say

Leaders will judge the appropriateness of a particular hairstyle by the appearance of headgear when worn.

Just about everything in every regulation within the Army gives LEADERS the right to use sound judgment.... but please research the entire regulation before you just post the QUOTE that fits your arguement on any subject.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Mar 18 at 2014 4:37 PM

2014-03-18T16:37:30-04:00

I have encountered many females like this in the Army actually, and my views on feminism aside, the soldiers who carry themselves in this fashion usually are good soldiers, but you get some who do this for attention.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Mar 18 at 2014 4:42 PM

2014-03-18T16:42:06-04:00

On an off topic note, once you leave the military, you see these kinds of issues as kind of humorous.....

Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Koran, Jews have the Torah, and Soldiers have AR 670-1.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 4:38 PM

2014-03-19T16:38:07-04:00

I know this might sound crazy, but I don't actually have a problem with female Soldiers who have high and tight's regardless of regulation. It is my opinion that in the great and inevitable push toward gender neutrality in the Army that we should actually switch to a male only standard for everything including hair styles. Why is it that my hair cannot be as long as a female Soldier? Am I at more risk for anything by having my hair just as long? No? Since we can never take away, but always add to, I say all women in the Army should have fades. It's a standard that already exists, and it's higher than the one currently in place.

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made Mar 19 at 2014 5:59 PM

2014-03-19T17:59:18-04:00

This is straight out of AR 670-1, SSG B I always tell my Soldiers to ready the regs and self educate.

Female haircuts will conform to the following standards.

(a)

Females will ensure their hair is neatly groomed, that the length and bulk of the hair are not excessive, and that

the hair does not present a ragged, unkempt, or extreme appearance. Likewise, trendy styles that result in shaved

portions of the scalp (other than the neckline) or designs cut into the hair are prohibited. Females may wear braids and

cornrows as long as the braided style is conservative, the braids and cornrows lie snugly on the head, and any hairholding

devices comply with the standards in 1–8a(3)(d) below. Dreadlocks (unkempt, twisted, matted individual parts

of hair) are prohibited in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Hair will not fall over the eyebrows or extend below

the bottom edge of the collar at any time during normal activity or when standing in formation. Long hair that falls

naturally below the bottom edge of the collar, to include braids, will be neatly and inconspicuously fastened or pinned,

4 AR 670–1 • 3 February 2005

so no free-hanging hair is visible. This includes styles worn with the physical fitness uniform/improved physical fitness

uniform (PFU/IPFU).

(b)

Styles that are lopsided or distinctly unbalanced are prohibited. Ponytails, pigtails, or braids that are not secured

to the head (allowing hair to hang freely), widely spaced individual hanging locks, and other extreme styles that

protrude from the head are prohibited. Extensions, weaves, wigs, and hairpieces are authorized; however, these

additions must have the same general appearance as the individual’s natural hair. Additionally, any wigs, extensions,

hairpieces, or weaves must comply with the grooming policies set forth in this paragraph.

(c)

Females will ensure that hairstyles do not interfere with proper wear of military headgear and protective masks

or equipment at any time (see 1–8a(1)(a), above). When headgear is worn, the hair will not extend below the bottom

edge of the front of the headgear, nor will it extend below the bottom edge of the collar.

(d)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 7:01 PM

2014-03-19T19:01:03-04:00

Ok, something to add to this what does everyone think?
Since a Soldier is a Soldier correct male or female, and we are gearing towards
women in combat MOS's and the same standards on whatever the NEW APFT will look
like. What if a male Soldier wanted to grow his hair out IAW 670-1 to female
hairstyle standards (why not, it works for female’s right)? Male Soldiers
maintaining their hair in the same ways as a female Soldier keeps up theirs?
Females will be in combat MOS's with long hair, so does that mean males should
be offered the same opportunity?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 7:11 PM

2014-03-19T19:11:22-04:00

Anyone who thinks a female with a close-cropped haircut isn't feminine has never heard of Persis Khambatta.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 10:50 PM

2014-03-20T22:50:46-04:00

According to the Uniform Policy Leaders Training, the new AR 670-1 spells it out very clearly: For females, "Hair may be no shorter than ¼ inch from scalp."

So, SSG Broadbent, it sounds as though leaders will soon be able to enforce this (formerly unwritten) standard without being labeled as sexist.