PT Grading standards relaxed for senior ranking NCOs (Is rank a factor?)

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 10:40:50 -0400

So from what i have been hearing lately is about a double-standard when it comes to grading the APFT. (Both use same grader) For Ex. One Soldier is an E-2, falling into the 17-21 age group. Clearly exceeds the required number of push ups, sit ups and the 2 mile run. Finished with a 43 push up score. Now we have an E9, form isnt horrible but still bad enough to have a req not count every now and then. Final push up score was 83. Keep in mind that they were using the same grader, an E6. Now how can those scores vary so much? Does Rank play a factor in the overal score of a PT test?

Response by PO1 Jason Taylor made May 19 at 2015 10:42 AM

PO1 Jason Taylor — Tue, 19 May 2015 10:42:12 -0400

Ya I have never agreed with double standards!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 10:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 10:46:39 -0400

All I can say is rank should not play a factor cause there is only one standard and that is the Army Standard!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 10:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 10:49:03 -0400

Do you have irrefutible proof that the person grading the APFT used a double standard? You can do a 100 push ups but if only 43 of them are correct form then you only get counted for 43, sorry but thats how the cookie crumbles.

Now if that was the case where the E2 pushed hard for 2 minutes and only came up with 43 then the grader should have been telling that Soldier what they were doing wrong, example being not going low enough, not breaking the plane..etc

Otherwise if your calling that E6's integrity into question then you better have some hard core proof and if you do...take it up the chain.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 11:39 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 11:39:59 -0400

I have never agreed with leaders not taking the APFT before their Soldiers. It was common practice when I was a young PL for the 1SG to take all the PSGs out to the PT course the day prior to the unit APFT to grade them. I don't know if any impropriety ever occurred but I voiced my concerns each and every time that it happened. Leaders should not expect any privileges for being a leader.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 12:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 12:30:26 -0400

After 10, he should've been stopped if his reps were that bad. Furthermore, a grader answers to an APFT NCOIC and OIC. Between them and the CoC, I'd suggest asking the APFT Chain if the APFT could be diagnostic and requesting another record APFT and requesting a Leader you trust to be present. The Soldier should also check DTMS and his/her ERB to see whether the APFT was uploaded. Tact and demonstration of your reps will be needed.

Also, I've seen a Marine Sgt fail Push-ups during Airborne simply because there weren't enough slots, supposedly. I've seen seniors attain perfect scores with half reps. Maybe the SSG didn't have enough, err, in him to tell the SNCO to correct his form.

Rant Complete.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 2:07 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 14:07:59 -0400

More details are needed.
Do you mean score or number of reps?
43 push ups is 61 points for a 17-21 y/o, 63 for someone 22-26, 69 for 27-41, 86 for 52-56, and 92 for 62+ years old. 43 push ups are over 100% for females at 17-21.
Age changes the value in points for Soldiers in each event, as does gender, rank does not.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 19 at 2015 2:13 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 19 May 2015 14:13:35 -0400

I was 30 and did 70 push ups, and an 18 year old did 68 push ups and received more points for the event. I was pissed.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 20 at 2015 4:59 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 20 May 2015 04:59:20 -0400

Its not that the standards are relaxed for senior NCOs. Its that some graders don't have any backbone or integrity.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2016 6:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 18:30:31 -0400

I can only reply that my lowest scores have always come from the tests administered by NCOES Cadre who have a very strict adherence to the standard.

I think that the pressure to approach 100% APFT passing in a unit translates as implicit pressure to let minor deficiencies in form slide. How many times have we seen that soldier struggle to get that last rep in at 1:59:30 with shouts of "come on..push it out" and "don't you dare quit!" Somehow they make it enough to lock their arms before time expires. They did not maintain the "generally straight line..." by any means, but this last effort (or efforts) is, more often then not, counted in unit-administered APFTs.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Apr 20 at 2016 7:09 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:09:30 -0400

If PT scores are really important in determining if a person can do their job there should only be one standard no matter who is taking the test. Age or sex should not matter.