(Question from 2014) What regulation is the dumbest?

2014-09-01T16:24:24-04:00

THIS QUESTION IS NOW NEARING 6 YEARS OLD!!!! Sanity prevailed and SMA Dailey killed that stupid rule.

I got corrected for working out with earphones in while in PTs yesterday. It was during NON PT hours. I looked it up in the new 670-1 and couldn't find it mentioned. It was a 1SG that told me to take them out. Rather than fighting a battle I complied and carried on. Can anyone tell me one where this reg is and two why it is even there?
Also what do YOU think is the dumbest regulation?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 1 at 2014 4:42 PM

2014-09-01T16:42:18-04:00

That is a new one on me. I've been out for 4 years so don't go by what I have to comment though. Was there any explanation behind that? I always went by the posted gym rules myself. You did the right thing by complying and deescalating the situation. Choose your battles.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2014 4:57 PM

2014-09-01T16:57:23-04:00

I think this might be tagged as duplicate post. But until that time, the dumbest that I've seen so far was the Marine lounge prohibiting ANY TYPE of PT gear, regardless whether soiled or not. I mean, come on now! Clean PT gear shouldn't matter, right?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2014 5:01 PM

2014-09-01T17:01:54-04:00

It doesn't hurt to check with base regulations. Some bases authorize them but only in one ear. If you could find that in writing and even carry it along with you, that would be helpful for next time.

I'm sure the 1SG meant no harm when he directed you to do so, but sometimes they too need to know the base regs. And showing it to him in writing WITH DUE RESPECT next time he stops you will help both of you in the long run (no pun intended)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 6:15 PM

2017-06-25T18:15:28-04:00

SMA Dailey went to great lengths to get earphones approved while in PTs, and indoors. Assuming you were inside, you were in the right, but it's not the hill worthy dying on.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 6:52 PM

2017-06-25T18:52:16-04:00

To my understanding you are only authorized to wear headphones when working out indoors. I don't know that this has been formally codified in AR 670-1 yet, although there may be an ALARACT out there. The obvious answer as to why you can't wear them outdoors is the loss of situational awareness. I understand people do it all the time in the civilian world but that's the justification that was given.

As far as stupid regulations, mine involves the camp I'm currently on. I'm deployed to East Africa on a Navy post. They have NCOs from outside of our chain of command conducting room inspections on senior NCOs and officers. I understand the "health and welfare" aspect of it, but they're taking it to the point of writing you up for not making your bed. If you're written up 3 times you're forced to move back into the tents. I haven't had a bed inspection since BCT in 2006. Furthermore, we're in a "combat" zone. Why is this even a priority?

I'll take not wearing headphones outdoors over that chickenshit any day of the week.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 6:56 PM

2017-06-25T18:56:25-04:00

AR 385-10 chapter 6 section 5 (army safety regulation). No headphones on dod facilities while outside around any street/sidewalk

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 6:57 PM

2017-06-25T18:57:55-04:00

The newest 670-1 (as of 24JUN17) states that headphones are allowed in gyms while in uniform. What it doesn't state is that military leadership has some level of discretion over almost everything you do.

A good way to approach this is take you pride and put it in a jar. Then walk to your leadership, platoon, then company, and show them the regulation that indicates where this is authorised.

You're a 35F and like many Intel folks you see the rules and say "that's cool I'm going to do it". Don't lose your motivation. Plenty of people will try to kill your passion. Just show them the regs and plead your case. If that doesn't work, come join our ranks...we don't play dumb games

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 25 at 2017 7:52 PM

2017-06-25T19:52:43-04:00

There is an Army Directive that authorized it, but the Installation Commander may veto it. The link to the directive is in the article. https://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2016/05/09/army-oks-earbuds-pt-uniforms-gym-effective-immediately/84164168/

84164168

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 9:49 PM

2017-06-25T21:49:01-04:00

It's at least in an ALRACT. As always **sigh** the "Leaders can add" adage comes into play.

This isn't a regulation issue, just a stupid situation. So I am one of two companies which occupy the state-of-the-art UAS hanger located on West Fort Hood. One company wants the space between the front of the hanger and the fence, leading out to the parking lot to be a no hat, no salute area. The other company does not and wants to continue headgear and military courtesy in that area. They can't come to agreement so you have some people walking around with headgear and saluting, and others that aren't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 6:27 AM

2017-06-26T06:27:52-04:00

https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/434471.pdf

434471.pdf

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Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Jun 26 at 2017 7:41 PM

2017-06-26T19:41:14-04:00

As a retired 1SG I can only assume the PTs to be a 'uniform'. Therefore, wearing headphones in PTs, whether during PT hours or not, would be the same as wearing them in any other uniform.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Aug 13 at 2017 11:51 AM

2017-08-13T11:51:42-04:00

If one is going jogging, that person is concentrated on their workout(eyes somewhat shut), jogging along and doesn't see or hearbthat vehicle pull out of a drive. So you did good, that person was looking out for your safety, not really to put a crimp in your style. It was to keep you from getting dented up and that be one more able body Not available to assist in performing the mission of our nation's defense..

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Aug 13 at 2017 12:03 PM

2017-08-13T12:03:27-04:00

I'm AF and we got regs/guidelines some may think stupid or archaic.. (maybe when it came out there was sense to it, just may not seem so, presently. You can make a submission and ask for a review. Maybe they'll take it under consideration, redefine it ..) I don't know the Dept of the Army's guideline on that so you'd have to research it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 7:59 PM

2018-05-13T19:59:22-04:00

Wherever your stationed will typically have a DA Pam or “Blue Book” that has additions to 6701-1 that are implemented for various reasons (ie safety); however, unless it’s changed I know at Bragg you can workout in the gym with headphones but not run on the routes with them during PT hours/ in IPFUs for safety reasons.

Response by SPC Charlie Robinson made Jun 3 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-06-03T11:51:05-04:00

It took me a bit to figure this out, but you're in the military, be military or get out at your first legal opportunity. Once you're in the military act like it. You can't be a civilian and be military at the same time. At least you shouldn't be able to.

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Jun 3 at 2018 12:38 PM

2018-06-03T12:38:58-04:00

I don't think there is a reg for it. There are a number of rules that exist by social convention and there's a number of rules that are ignored.

Dumbest reg in existance? Everything pertaining to D&C and dress uniforms. They do nothing for nobody except waste time and money.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jun 3 at 2018 12:47 PM

2018-06-03T12:47:50-04:00

I'm guessing the thought behind this is they don't want you getting run over by a truck because you can't hear him beeping the horn.

Response by SGM Frank Marsh made Jun 3 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-06-03T13:42:57-04:00

at Fort Sill once at the hospital...anybody that has ever been there realizes that certain parts of the year it rains incessantly and tornadoes....all the folks running across the parking lot in uniform....one person walking slowly with an umbrella in BDUs, hmmmm. when I got to the entrance he was being addressed for use of the umbrella, not part of the uniform thing...LOL...and he was an E7 reservist called up for active...I always thought that was a dumb rule for sure.

Response by SSgt Samuel Harris made Jun 3 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-06-03T20:39:10-04:00

Tell the 1st Sgt to produce the updated regulation, if he can't....tell him to f**koff.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made Jun 4 at 2018 12:41 AM

2018-06-04T00:41:52-04:00

That is not a dumb regulation. The Dumby is you. 1st as the 1SG has probably stated to you many times, you can not take away from the AR but you can add to it. If you are in uniform and PT hear is a uniform you must wear that uniform properly and to specs. What happens if some order is given and you can not hear it. The Army is the Army you are there to comply and follow orders not make up you own uniform regulations.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2018 8:18 PM

2018-07-13T20:18:32-04:00

I don't know the regulation, but at ft. Sam you arnt allowed to have earphones in unless you are in civies and indoors, and you can only have one in at a time

Response by TSgt Tony Segovia made Jul 14 at 2018 4:39 PM

2018-07-14T16:39:05-04:00

It was a local OI...while deployed to base X during Gulf War I...USAF collocated with US Army, RAF FAF & USN...["although this is a hostile fire zone...to maintain a modicum of barring and behavior , customs and courtesies...USAF officers are to be saluted...all others do NOT want to be saluted] When I asked why we were saluting our targets the briefer said "to maintain a modicum of barring and behavior , customs and courtesies"

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2018 5:02 PM

2018-07-14T17:02:58-04:00

The earbud situation, to my knowledge, isn’t a reg but a Division command policy from the CG. I’ve couldn’t find it on regs either only in Division Standard books.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Jul 14 at 2018 5:15 PM

2018-07-14T17:15:23-04:00

Any regualtion that is unit specific to army regulations. In other words where a commander has added his regulations to army regulation. For exampe, I was on a recruitering TDY in Germany which a general ordered that all troops in civilian clothes had to wear dog tags. I witnessed over 50 troops in civilian clother getting AR15s at the Division Commander Headquarters. Karma got the asshat a year later when he was forced to retire for having an affair with a member of his staff.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2018 4:08 AM

2018-07-15T04:08:40-04:00

In uniform earphones are unprofessional

Response by Cpl Brandon Rocco made Jul 17 at 2018 10:58 PM

2018-07-17T22:58:10-04:00

I always found the not wearing a belt to be up there. My belt broke while I was out and was thrown out of the mcx trying to buy another. This absolute pick of a first sgt followed up with my coc. I told my career planner that re upping was totally out of the question

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2018 1:07 AM

2018-07-18T01:07:53-04:00

As far as I’m tracking, it’s only allowed indoors and it has to be the earbuds, not over the head headphones (according to my current unit)

Response by LCpl Dennis Stolte made Jul 18 at 2018 4:49 PM

2018-07-18T16:49:04-04:00

Wearing headphones out doors could cause you to get hiy by a car or anything else its the only answer ive gotten from 2nd lt

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 6:31 AM

2018-07-19T06:31:25-04:00

You can wear earbuds while conducting PT inside a gym. You cannot wear headphones, or any over the ear devices.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 6:34 AM

2018-07-19T06:34:42-04:00

You cannot wear headphones, or any type of over the ear devises. Earbuds are the only authorized device that can be worn with APFUs.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2018 12:51 AM

2018-07-21T00:51:30-04:00

When I was at airborn we were told in side the gym and on the outdoor track only can you wear earphones I even got corrected for walking around in civilians with them on

Response by CPL Larry Pearson Jr. made Jul 22 at 2018 4:26 PM

2018-07-22T16:26:20-04:00

TIP - screen shot every new AR all things like that just so you have proof !!!!

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jul 23 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-07-23T12:13:55-04:00

the one above about shaving is joke.

Response by A1C Elwood Skipper made Jul 23 at 2018 11:27 PM

2018-07-23T23:27:12-04:00

From what I remember it might be a local thing or from a safety viewpoint... I know certain older men/women just think you shouldn’t do it (culture thing) and they will try to make you conform. I would politely ask next time and act dumb but they probably won’t be able to show you the regulation because it does not exist...

Response by PO3 Phil Thedford made Jul 24 at 2018 2:47 PM

2018-07-24T14:47:48-04:00

I discharged in January 1979. We didn’t have a problem with earphones. We’d never heard of em.
Most regulations are the result of somebody doin something stupid. Be aware of your surroundings. Don’t be the reason for the safety meeting. You’re in the military, act like it. Put the electronics down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 3:41 PM

2018-07-24T15:41:21-04:00

AR 385-10 Chapter 6-5, Look it up. It's not a uniform violation. It's a safety violation.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Jul 26 at 2018 2:46 PM

2018-07-26T14:46:11-04:00

If you are asking which regs are "dumb" in a public forum I think you need to rethink your career choice

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 11:51 PM

2018-07-30T23:51:46-04:00

AR 385-10, The Army Safety Program. Chapter 5-6. Headphones.

Response by PO2 Tony Martin made Aug 10 at 2018 6:00 AM

2018-08-10T06:00:04-04:00

Anyone moving outside and wearing headphones unless they are cutting grass in their own yard or moving their arm to reach for a beer in the cooler on their porch, is an idiot. If you are indoors and not in a working situation such as working out, then I don't see the problem. We were never harassed on the USS Carl Vinson for wearing headphones while in the gym. Probably because we were deployed a lot. But in my job running forwards Supply for special ops groups, if we were flying out onto land, you better take those damn things out of your ears.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2018 2:04 PM

2018-08-12T14:04:37-04:00

What Top says, go’s.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Jan 1 at 2019 5:51 PM

2019-01-01T17:51:59-05:00

This is my answer to your question and its not regarding headphones.

The dumbest regulation is one you just caught violating.

Response by SFC Dennis Cash made Jan 2 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-01-02T14:29:05-05:00

Depending on your command and the post regulations, they may not be allowed while you are working out. IMO, I. think music is fine, however in a public place the headphones are a better choice. I would make sure I were not in my APFT gear while doing so.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jan 9 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-01-09T14:29:08-05:00

You have regs, you have common sense and then you have a First Sergeant. The issue here is your personal safety; which impacts your military job to deploy. To make an odd point here, how would you feel if a pilot, tank gunner or a truck driver was wearing ear buds while doing their job..... yes, you were Doing PT, and I commend you.

I see this daily at at a DoD school. When I witnessed a Major pass a Light Colonel, and neither rendered Military Honors, a salute... they were both on phones and had ear buds, it was a sad day. The base CO, who was a 2Lt when we were both I knew from 7th ID, sent out his CSM. Who kindly asked them to see the Full Bird.

I lnow technology has passed most of us old timers, and I have asked a young soldier how much he weighed. He walked in front of my 6,000 pound SUV, while talking on his phone. You ever see a deer in a spotlight? He wanted to file the equivalent to a “grievance”.... this ain’t no Union.

Listen to any 1SG, or anyone who is looking out for your safety. Nothing is as unsafe as a phone on or off duty in a busy military facility, which is why a “phone basket” is at the front of most every class here. Personally, When on a Patrol, I used to pretend I could hear the Doors music group, but my job and safety was never second. Mostly, because a 1SG would have shined his boot on my rear end.

Please enjoy your technological toys, but never go against a Senior NCO, unless he or she intoxicated and wrong, you still respect him or her, then discuss it later.

Whether or not this is in a book of regs, you can bet there is a reg that goes against it.... safety.

You obviously are serious with your PT, and that is great. But think of your primary function as a soldier first. Please don’t go to a Barracks Lawyer, be safe and be a soldier. And never go against a Senior NCO, especially Top Kick. I learned this the hard way when a Navy Senior Chief knocked me out (and I was a scrapper) then a Gunnery Sergeant carried me over shoulder. The E-8 actually came to see me the next day to see if I was ok. The Senior NCO’s have been around.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 1:25 PM

2019-12-24T13:25:05-05:00

Dumbest so far is the commercial gloves have to be leather or leather blend slicked out black...yet they sell black, coyote brown, and multicam gloves at clothing and sales...........

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Dec 24 at 2019 4:02 PM

2019-12-24T16:02:18-05:00

Here you’ll find your answer: Army Directive 2016-20

https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/434471.pdf

434471.pdf

Response by Amn Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2020 1:59 AM

2020-04-21T01:59:15-04:00

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Response by Capt Daniel Farmer made Apr 27 at 2020 10:10 AM

2020-04-27T10:10:18-04:00

I don’t know the Reg but it has been since the civil war.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2020 12:12 AM

2020-05-06T00:12:06-04:00

Seems to be post dependent.

Response by 1SG David Miller made May 6 at 2020 11:55 AM

2020-05-06T11:55:49-04:00

It may not have been put into regulation yet but may be in local guidelines. My last two duty assignments covered wear of ear phones in local guidelines

Response by SGT Mike Barnhart made May 6 at 2020 12:51 PM

2020-05-06T12:51:17-04:00

I'm guessing the 1SG is looking at from a discipline vantage point, if his soldiers see you doing it, they'll do it and it's just a lot simpler to nip it in the bud, I once seen a CSM go nuts on a Captain for coming back off of block leave with a beard when he signed in, 82nd of course

Response by CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin made May 6 at 2020 5:55 PM

2020-05-06T17:55:58-04:00

Shoe Shine while in the desert, before i was issued sand colored boots.

Response by LTC Ronald Jones made May 7 at 2020 3:05 AM

2020-05-07T03:05:10-04:00

AR 600-First Sergeant :-)

Response by PO2 Earl Snellings made May 7 at 2020 10:25 AM

2020-05-07T10:25:13-04:00

It impairs your readiness and slows reaction time.

Response by CPT Fred Ehlers made May 7 at 2020 10:33 AM

2020-05-07T10:33:05-04:00

Uh. Chief. Uh. A 1SG told you that? Uh. Well, a I'd check post SOPs. The only thing I can think of is local SOP stating that due to safety concerns, ear buds shouldn't be worn. Other than that... Uh, Chief. Really?! A 1SG?! Chief?! Look down at your collar.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 7 at 2020 11:59 AM

2020-05-07T11:59:30-04:00

The only thing I’d think it was strictly about safety more so than just harassment. I always felt and we were treated like 6 year olds and they managed us to the lowest common denominator. Earphones in you can’t hear traffic or perhaps a car horn etc, back in my day those things didn’t exist. But strictly safety, if your on base your subject to enforcement, and you did the right thing and comply instead of getting into a pissing contest with a Sr NCO

Response by SGM Robert Gentner made May 7 at 2020 2:40 PM

2020-05-07T14:40:21-04:00

Smart to remove them. When "asked/told" to take them out. That is an order! Dumb or not compliance is the best course of action.

Response by SPC Jose Medrano made May 7 at 2020 4:41 PM

2020-05-07T16:41:40-04:00

This is why I so respect the Air Force. They ALL work and they all treat each others like adults. . .

Response by CW2 Ralph Plourde made May 7 at 2020 7:46 PM

2020-05-07T19:46:05-04:00

Secretary of the Army put out a memo in 2016, saying, unless commanders prohibit, soldiers may wear headphones in uniform indoors

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2020 9:56 PM

2020-05-07T21:56:52-04:00

This post is VERY OLD NOW!!!! Thankfully SMA Dailey fixed a LOT of army stupidity.

Response by SP5 Christopher[ Knobloch made May 8 at 2020 1:46 AM

2020-05-08T01:46:48-04:00

Don't wear PT uniform when you workout during non duty hours.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made May 8 at 2020 10:57 AM

2020-05-08T10:57:12-04:00

I think there may be some confusion about "Regulation" and "Policy".
I glad you had the wisdom to comply with the 1SG's order, "Regulation" requires you to obey.
If the 1SG was giving an order "Against Policy" - that his lookout, not yours.
I do guarantee if it had come down to a Court Marshal you would have lost.
Policies are meant 'to guide'. Orders are meant 'to direct'.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 8 at 2020 12:09 PM

2020-05-08T12:09:56-04:00

Sodomy

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2020 1:42 PM

2020-05-08T13:42:40-04:00

Making your bed immediately after waking up....so the moisture and bacteria can just stew all day rather than let it air out, release moisture, etc... Sheet and blanket can be folded back neatly to look good while still allowing air!!
No logos on socks.... there's more socks with logos out there than without - it's called capitalism/free market.
PT belts in combat zones........just at all.
You couldn't wear your combat shirt on the FOB, ONLY outside the wire so you had to keep a regular ACU top in the truck in case you needed to get out on the FOB....SMH
Putting so much security on UNCLASS computers that they barely even function anymore....
and of course - everything USAREC does.....

Response by LTC Jerold Kaplan made May 29 at 2020 12:00 AM

2020-05-29T00:00:14-04:00

It's not a regulation, but IMHO one of the dumbest things done by the Army occurred when I finished my statutory obligation and was encouraged to re-up. I am an orthopedic surgeon who was interested in burn care., and planned to do this as my life's work. The Burn Center at BAMC, or the Institute for Surgical Research (ISR) was staffed by doctors with the MOS 61J "general surgeon". Since I was board certified in orthopedics, I was classified 61M, but Col Basil Pruitt, the Commander and Director was able to pull strings and get me initially assigned to the ISR. In 1977, my obligation was fulfilled and I was asked by a recruiter to re-up. I said that my interest was burn care and that I would if i could take care of burn patients. I was told that there was no MOS "Burn Surgeon". I offered to sign a 20 year commitment if it could be developed, or a least be guaranteed that I could care for burn patients. I was told that could not be done and therefore I left the Army.

Over the next 20 years I received letters and phone calls asking me to re-enlist in either the reserves or active duty. Every time I made the same response, heard the recruiter drooling on the phone about a doctor who wanted to enlist, and then get a phone call about two weeks later asking if I wouldn't rather be and orthopedist. I stayed as a private burn doctor.

Nearly 15 years later, shortly after the first Iraq war, I was contacted by Cpt Mary Zieres, a recruiter who was determined to get me back in. She identified an IMA (Individual Mobilization Augmentee) position at the ISR where, if needed, I would be assigned to the ISR and the RA doctor could be assigned where he/she was qualified and needed. There was no rational reason to accept, but I knew that if activated, I would take a massive pay cut, and that I could never obtain enough "good time" to receive retirement benefits, but I could offer servicemen/women my skill and knowledge. After three years, I received a call from the commander at Madigan welcoming me as their new orthopedic surgeon, and inviting me to spend weekends or summer camp with them. I politely declined (I had no obligation to do so) and was then reassigned to a general pool at Ft Benjamin Harrison. A few weeks later I received two letters in the same week. The first informed me that I needed to take a quadrennial physical, or, if I had completed my statutory obligation, I could resign my commission. The second letter was from Major General Max Baratz, Commander of the Army Reserves, asking me to fill out a long questionnaire to help him better understand how to "attract and retain wonderful doctors" like me!

Needless to say, I am now a civilian, proud of my military service, but sorry for the fact that Military intelligence is an oxymoron.

Response by SFC Dennis Cash made Aug 9 at 2021 3:30 PM

2021-08-09T15:30:57-04:00

I believe that the smart thing to do is to comply with the 1SG and move on.it will save the anguish later.