Rank and seniority based off units a thing?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 00:53:42 -0500

I am married to an active duty man and my husband finds this ridiculous I just wanna know if it’s just us. I was told I have to stand at parade rest for another SPC but I’ve been in for almost 5 years and he’s been in for a year and a half and loves it that he’s higher cause he’s infantry and I’m new to the unit. But I’m not new to the guard.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 7 at 2023 1:36 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 01:36:05 -0500

That made absolutely no sense.
1. Who is in the position of authority? That trumps all else.
BUT
2. Who has Date of Rank? If you have the Date of Rank over him your chain of command is facing serious kick back from the IG if they 'appointed' the person over you simply because he's "Infantry".
3. Go to your commander first before the IG - Mainly because if they appointed a 'Man' Over a 'Woman', then its sexual discrimination.
4. How 'new' to the unit has nothing to do with it.
5. Be sure to include the name of who told you that "you had to..." when you make the complaint to the IG and possibly your state representative (since its National Guard, if had been actve duty it would have been your US Representative) if it goes that far.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 7 at 2023 8:27 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 08:27:45 -0500

Somebody is pulling your chain...time for a discussion with the first sergeant

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2023 9:42 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 09:42:59 -0500

Unless the other SPC is acting as an appointed leader (squal leader/PLT SGT) then there is no regulation requirement to stand at parade rest.
Sounds like your unit needs some serious EO training - need to equally integrate women into the unit. If the first seargent isn't helping you then you need to talk to the commander and/or EO.
Deploying with the unit is going to be rough if you don't get communication worked out now.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Dec 7 at 2023 9:50 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 09:50:30 -0500

I call 5 shades of BS on this mess.

You are being punked because you are new.

Length of time at a Unit doesn't equate to Seniority.

Rank and date of rank do. If you have more time in grade than this barracks lawyer you are Senior. They aren't Senior to you because of their MOS. That's bull crap.

Talk to your first line leadership and keep going up the chain to get this all addressed

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2023 10:28 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 10:28:14 -0500

Whomever it was that told you that you have to stand at Parade Rest for another Specialist....that person has been hitting a huge Crack pipe.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Dec 7 at 2023 11:50 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 11:50:23 -0500

Read through the other replies that were posted as of when I writing this, and they are pretty much spot on.

I don't know whether it is good or bad, but I didn't even realize the sexual discrimination thing until I started reading through their replies. I just saw ridiculousness and was getting ready to comment on that.

But having had that brought to my attention, they are 98% spot on.

This is far more likely than not to be a case of secual discrimination. This needs to go to Commander and/or EO, and sooner rather than later.

Now, that being said, being senior does NOT automatically grant leadership slots. There was a point in time when I was a SGT Squad Leader in a standard infantry squad, and I had no subordinate NCOs. I had 4 SPCs and 2 PFCs. And the 2 PFCs were my team leaders because the SPCs couldn't be bothered to give an actual fuck about ANYTHING. I did this, of course, after counseling and conferring with PSG and PL, and with their blessing. I am not saying this is applicable to your situation, but merely a demonstration that seniority does NOT Trump merit. At least not always.

There is also a very large bias within the military that combat arms - especially Infantry - does a better job of training leaders. And having served as a both Infantry and MI, across a broad range of units (IN, MI, Cav, EN, and TRADOC), I can say this is a well-earned bias. So the 1SG ASSUMING that Infantry SPC is a better leader and more fitting for the role is not unexpected. However, the 1SG ACTING on the assumption without verifying is wrong.

Now, about that 2%. If you are new to the unit, this other SPC may have done great and wonderful things prior to your arrival that earned him that spot. If he just finished Ranger school, for instance, that is one of the Army's premier leadership schools. I can see that earning him a nod over another SPC, even one more senior.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 7 at 2023 11:52 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 11:52:16 -0500

Is this guy assigned a position of authority like shop supervisor, team leader, etc? If he is, then he gets the respect due the position. Maybe I am a bit old school, but it this was outside of assigned position of authority, I would have told him/her to F-O and let's go see what the First Sergeant has to say.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2023 12:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:28:05 -0500

Who told you that you have to stand at parade rest for another SPC? Is your husband trying to "pull rank?" LOL tell him to pound sand because no you don't have to stand at parade rest for another SPC nor does a PVT to PFC stand at parade rest for a SPC. CPL and above sure. Also not sure what it matters that he's infantry...how are you guys in the same unit if you're Guard and he's active? Even if you are, I doubt you actually work together. Your profile says Information Technology Specialist so 25 series - 25B when I look it up. You guys aren't really going to work together if you are unless computers go down. You'd likely be in the S6 somewhere. Maybe in a company.

One of my younger brothers is in the Guard and I'm active duty. He's been in the Guard a year longer than I've been active - and we were SPCs at the same time at a point. But I came active as a SPC so I always outranked him really. At this point I'm a SFC, he's a SSG. He actually pinned my SGT stripes when I got promoted when we were both in Iraq. Did I ever make him stand at parade rest for me whenever I was around him during that deployment in uniform? Nope. I jokingly told him to drop after my promotion. He told me to f* off. I said hey now...but I wasn't going to ever make a big deal over it. But that's the only time we were ever consistently in uniform the same time. The only other time was I went to his WLC graduation because I was stationed close to home at the time. And I went straight from work and then had to go back so I was SFC he was stlil a SGT. But no big deal. I've never tried to "pull rank" on him nor wouldI I. If he was active duty when I have been, and we were in the same unit and worked together that's different but I still wouldn't unless he got real beligerent or something. But I doubt he would.

I think we need more context. But ultimately no a SPC shouldn't be standing at parade rest for another SPC unless I've missed something somewhere that changed in 19 years.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2023 2:45 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 14:45:39 -0500

I'm curious about your thoughts. What makes you think he could possibly be right? What would the justification be?

I think you're implying that there could be some obscure, unwritten rule somewhere that you just don't know about?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2023 4:36 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 16:36:45 -0500

Unless the SPC has been put in a leadership position I would tell the SPC to pound sand. Also seniority has nothing to do with who is best qualified for a leadership role. So yes a junior SPC can be chosen over a senior SPC to fill a role that is needed that no NCO’s are available to fill.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 8 at 2023 8:34 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:34:41 -0500

Not to be contrary to others but. I am sure it has less to do with MOS than it does placing a Soldier of high calibre in a temporary duty as an E5/SGT. There are specific processes associated with this and you are within your right to inquire as to his status over yours.

When in a temporary duty it is the responsibility of the next higher NCO to coach and mentor the SPC. Going to Parade Rest for a temporary duty is a bit out there (if this is when speaking outside of formation), but easily addressed. Anyway, not sure why the spouse is asking these questions unless I am misreading the chain.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Dec 8 at 2023 8:55 AM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:55:01 -0500

It would seem that if this SP4 was in a leader role, he would be a CPL for real or an acting jack. If just a sham shield, just be polite.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2023 4:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:33:42 -0500

This sounds like a break down in the annual SHARP/EO training required in the unit and further disconnect of the Command Team to keep tabs on platoons' and sections' conduct.