Re-Up or become DOD Civilian?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:58:32 -0400

What's better: Reenlist for another 4 years, or get out and become a DOD civilian? Just thinking not too far into the future. wondering what I should do. By the way, I have a wife and toddler to consider in this decision. My only experience outside the Army is Wendy's, seeing that I joined straight out of high school.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 12:02 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:02:11 -0400

I would re-up. Having a family, the benefits of the military, what they are now at least, is way better than trying to find a new job and getting decent medical for the toddler and mother would be difficult. If you could get a contracting job with the military, that might make it better, but I would re-up.

Response by TSgt David Stephens made Jun 6 at 2014 1:03 PM

TSgt David Stephens — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:03:49 -0400

The key is to understand youir long term goals.... If you go to DOD Civilian you can go to school at night and better your job resume, I think the majority of soldiers come in from high school becuase they have no real plan in place. The military is going through many disheartening changeswhich prompted me to retire after 20 years and work for the the State of NC.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jun 6 at 2014 2:08 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:08:19 -0400

Attend ACAP classes and you'll get a better understanding of what's out there and how to get it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 2:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:38:22 -0400

I would be considering the medical coverage since you have a family. Given what you list as your work history, you may not find many jobs that will provide the medical that the army does.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 2:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:50:24 -0400

Please tell me if I am wrong here:
-You are an 11X (just saw that you are a 25C but your profile said rifleman which confused me)
-You have not completed a degree, certifications, etc
-You have a family to support

Think about how this translates to the civlian World. The jobs that you will qualify for will likely not pay as well as you would like. The benefits are likely to cost you much more than what it takes to cover you and your family now.

Let's say you land a job out there paying $14 an hour (which would probably be a bit of a reach in most locales). Your monthly take home for 40 hours a week (with a 20% tax rate attempting to factor income tax, SS, etc that will be withdrawn) would be approximtaley $1,792 a month. Take out the cost of your medical benefits which will probably be between $200-300/month with coverages that are lower than what you have now. You might be able to get a cheaper plan, but it will be coming from your pay to afford it. Take rent, groceries, diapers, etc. out and you can see how slim the net income becomes after expenses. DOD civilian jobs can be a challenge to land and many people have to start off taking the lower paying ones just to get their foot in the door. This could reduce this. I know many who have taken DOD civlian jobs paying around $10 and hour just to land something and get their foot in the door. The positions that pay the big bucks require education, experience, and/or certifications.

You are young and have tons of time to move forward in your life. I would strongly consider staying in the Army, getting a solid education, and then seeing where you sit in a few years. Education does not have to be college if that is not your interest. IT certifications, technical certifications, etc can be just as lucrative in the long run. You may also look at MOSs which would help you gain some skillsets that your MOS does not offer. 12P is always looking for solid Soldiers to apply. 35Q is becoming very hot if you are into comptuers and networks. The Army is huge and there are opportunities for you to expand your experience and skills through potential reclassification into another MOS IF...IF...that is what would interest you.

This is just my $.02. You have to make the decision which is best for you and your young family.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 6:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 18:58:00 -0400

The biggest thing to do is get an early start to see all your options. A lot of people will tell you ally of different things about what's the way to go. You need to do your research with companies and jobs you are interested in. Pay attention at Acap and use that program properly. Go to job interviews and the career fairs. Wear proper business attire. Don't get lazy with it and if you want to get out make it work

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 7:11 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:11:46 -0400

I worked at Wendy's for 4 years before I joined the Army...still good experience dealing with difficult people :-). I'm usually the first to encourage reenlistment for numerous reasons but DoD civilian can have perks. An option could be go DoD civilian, buy back your AD time and reenlist into the reserves. Kind of a double dip deal. I've considered it a few times but I just love what I do and I don't want to give it up. No matter what choice you make, look at all the pros and cons of each route...the grass isn't always greener on the otherside.

Response by SGT Daniel Lancaster made Jun 6 at 2014 7:31 PM

SGT Daniel Lancaster — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:31:20 -0400

Here is the advice of a current veteran who just recently obtained his first federal government job:

If you have a Master's Degree in signing welfare checks or selling over-hyped health insurance policies, then there is a powerful man with a pen and a phone who has a job for you. If you are anyone else, getting a job with the federal government is a difficult uphill battle which will take many years and involve many disappointments. Veterans commonly fall into the "anyone else" category.

Go onto USAJOBS.com and look for the type of job you might want to have. You will probably notice right away that the majority of these jobs require "specialized experience" that is difficult to obtain if you aren't already a federal employee. Some allow for a substitution of college education to meet the experience requirement, but that only helps if you have a college education. Having veteran's status gives you a bonus over other applicants, but if you don't meet the requirements for the job you will still be bumped off the list.

Now, what others haven't pointed out is that this simply isn't an easy time to find a federal job, perhaps least of all with the DOD. The war in Iraq is over. Afghanistan is winding down. Military budgets are being slashed to make more room for "entitlement" programs. People in positions of power have decided that it is easier to ignore criminal behavior than to implement effective law enforcement policies. For all of the above reasons, there aren't many jobs to go around, particularly for people like ourselves whose primary skill set is wearing a uniform and carrying a weapon.

Given the circumstances, you are probably better off staying on active duty.

However, as soon as you re-enlist, the very next thing you should do is ask where the education office on your post is located. Go down there, get yourself enrolled at a school which offers decent online classes, get signed up for Tuition Assistance (TA), and ask about the schedule for CLEP and DSST exams. In a few years down the road, when you have a college degree and some "political factors" have changed, the outlook for getting a job with the federal government might be a lot better.

Or, you can always apply for my old job fist fighting meth addicts in the Emergency Room for $12 an hour. A position just recently opened...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 8:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:05:32 -0400

Would you be contributing if you reenlisted? Would it benefit your battle buddy to the left and right of you? Will your heart be in it....or is this just a back up plan? Reenlisting is a priviledge and you should be honored to be afforded the opportunity to do so if your qualified. Too many Soldiers now a days believe the Army owes them or use it as a back up plan when they see the job market is not that great. If your heart and passion is not with the Army and your young enough and experienced enough to market yourself and contribute as a productive citizen then give it a shot. If i had a family to support, had passion for my duties in the Army, wanted to contribute to the Army and eventualy be a positive influence for fellow Soldiers and was afforded the opportunity to Reenlist and continue serving....thats 100% , if i have a family and not sure about anything else....thats rolling the dice. Either way the sooner you commit to a decision the better. Does your wife have a degree and/or a good job to take care of your family if the DoD job doesnt work out? These are just a few things i'd take into consideration that i didnt see too many others hit on.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 8:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:18:54 -0400

About DoD Civilians and Contractors - they are NOT the same thing at all. I have a Masters degree and I am a triple minority with Veteran's preference who currently works on an Army base and after 2 years of efforts, I have not been able to be picked up as a DoD civilian. I was completely unemployed for 8 months. Despite all the "hire vets" talk, do not expect the civilian world to welcome you will open arms. It will be the opposite. Add that to the hiring freeze which pre-dated the sequester and the draw down. I am a contractor and those jobs are drying up too. The office were I work handles the College Internship Program - we cannot even get those people jobs. We have cut the number of interns allowed to start the program for the two cycles I have been here.

Stay in or get out, but please don't do it imagining that there is a government or contracting job waiting for you. It will be a battle to get one, especially if you do not have any degrees, certifications, or other special qualifications to put you ahead of the thousands of other vets out of work right now.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Jun 7 at 2014 11:22 AM

SFC Christopher Perry — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:22:52 -0400

Ultimately you need to make this decision for yourself depending on your own personal goals. I will tell you the same thing I tell my Soldiers. Which is I stand behind any decision you make for your future. That is as long as you have a real plan in place. If you are getting out while crossing your fingers and hoping for the best, that is the wrong answer. If you have done your research and have a job or are enrolled in college, you have a plan. However, if you plan to stay in the uniform, you need to have a plan for your career there as well. Don't be one of the folks that reenlists because you have no other options. Have a plan for how you are going to move up and take my place some day.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 7 at 2014 11:31 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:31:49 -0400

As the DoD/DA Civilian jobs are feeling the pinch of the drawdown as well as the Army, I can tell you, from personal experience, that landing one of these "coveted" jobs is very hard to do right now, even with a plethora of experience. Also, without much of a civilian education on your part, jobs in the regular civilian market may well be few and far between. As you have a young family to think about, I would recommend that you think very long and hard about getting out of the service, unless you have reached the point where you no longer wish to serve.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 9:31 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 21:31:25 -0400

Thank you all for your in-depth and timely responses!

The overall consensus shows that staying in would be a smart thing to do, seeing that I have no real experience worth raising a family on in the civilian world.

Just as well, this job is pretty damn easy given that you show up on time, right place, and right uniform. Do that, and you'll be fine. And that, I shall do.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 9 at 2014 1:02 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 13:02:07 -0400

It's really not as simple as "Oh I think I'll go become a DOD civilian today". I work at the two star command level with TONS of DA civilians. What they all have in common is a Masters degree at minimum (the bulk of them have doctorates, at least half have multiple degrees), and decades of experience in their field.

The lower level civilains throughout the base? Same. Tons of education and experience.

If you want a DOD job working at a PX somewhere, that's not impossible, but the GOOD jobs? The qualifications are not low..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2014 5:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 17:11:42 -0400

Stay in! Unless, the military completely is overwhelming for your household, it's the best career in the world. Very few jobs, if any will ever offer what the Army or any branch for that matter can. But ultimately, if you don't have the passion for it, I guess getting out isn't a terrible option. Many factors to consider. The USAR may have some perks for you if you really wanted to get out and work towards your education. Good luck either way.

Response by SGT Shawn Case made Jun 11 at 2014 11:17 PM

SGT Shawn Case — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 23:17:58 -0400

Here is my advice, right now, stay in. You need a realistic plan.

Tomorrow, not later, go down to the education office and get a plan to get your Bachelors degree. You NEED your education. I am currently a DoD civilian, right now in my office, out of nine people everyone has a Bachelors degree, one of those has his JD (law degree) and five of us have our Masters degree. Education is key.

Next, find a MOS that relates to the civilian world, specifically something that interests you, if you need a security clearance for it, that's even better! This will help you to get the training and job experience that you need when you finally do leave the service. Experience is very important for a Govt job. That clearance is a bonus can make your job hunt much easier, especially if you go the contractor route.

Finally find a mentor. This is huge as well. They will be able to help guide your military career, education and civilian career with good advice. Plenty of people out there willing to help. Personally I try as much as possible to mentor people getting out with the transition, because its not easy. Quite frankly its scary.

Best thing you can do is use the military to get the training and skills you need, because you damn sure better believe the military is going to use you! Get yours and if someone has a problem with it, screw them, its your family and life, not theirs.