REAL Advice for Trigger Pulling Door Kickers

SFC Jim Mergott — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:26:27 -0400

My advice to help the civilian workplace transition for enlisted combat arms:

1.Understand that many civilians with no military experience will be more sensitive about social issues than yourself.
2.You must be able to show co-workers(especially subordinates), some level of empathy and civility.
3.If you are questioned or choose to talk about deployments, be very selective who you share your combat experiences with. You don’t want to be labeled the “crazy veteran.”
4.STAY HUMBLE. ( most important)

Looking back to my active duty years as a lower enlisted infantryman, I recall leaders telling me and my peers to just “embrace the suck” or you are weak. Such might be the case if it’s a life or death combat situation. However, if you are in an office environment and most blue collar type environments in the civilian world, this will most likely not be the case. Here is a realistic example. It’s a cold, wet, and just nasty day outside at your civilian job. There is work that must be performed outside in this type of weather. A subordinate complains about the weather and implies in front of others that you are making a mistake having them perform the work given the current weather conditions. The individual also complains about how they will be cold and possibly wet. You must be able to show these workers a level of empathy and civility that quite honestly in an infantry unit would be frowned upon and even considered weak leadership. In the civilian world, if you tell these individuals to suck it up, more than likely there will be a complaint. You will end up being reprimanded by your boss with a human resource representative there to document it. Not good for you. Maybe in the civilian workplace your supervisor wants to micromanage your activities, or even worse, you are in an environment of toxic leadership. It is better to keep doing your job to the best of your ability and realize that they likely have never lead individuals in combat like you have, at a stress level that most of them cannot comprehend. STAY HUMBLE. In the long run, this will be advantageous to the way you are perceived by the people who matter (leaders and managers who are not toxic).

Remember the guys that washed out of basic training because they weren’t able to deal with the stress? In the civilian workplace, you may be working with that type of individual. They will not understand the satisfaction of catching an HVT(high value target); or that time you and your platoon defended and fought off an enemy attack on your JSS(joint service station) in Iraq. So, maybe just keep the stories to yourself; or when you find out you work with a legitimate fellow combat veteran, talk to only them about it.

My fellow veterans, I had an advantage transitioning to the civilian world after my initial four years of active duty by joining the National Guard. I suggest you do it as well. It will enable you to form connections with other veterans who are a step ahead and have already made a successful transition to the civilian world. It will also keep you connected to the military. This is, in my opinion, a huge positive psychological advantage in your efforts to transition. I give you all this advice not only with the utmost respect, but from real world experience as well. Good luck.

Response by SGT David T. made Nov 2 at 2017 1:32 PM

SGT David T. — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:32:41 -0400

I agree with everything you said. With a few small tweaks, it could apply to any military job. I had to learn these lessons the hard way after becoming a civilian lol

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2017 1:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:43:48 -0400

In my experience, regardless of whether you go into any sort of remote detail about deployments or say "yeah, I've deployed to here or there", you're labeled the "crazy veteran" just because you put on a uniform.

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Nov 2 at 2017 3:11 PM

MSG Lonnie Averkamp — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 15:11:51 -0400

My civilian job after two Active Army Tours was in Law Enforcement. I thought that I would find the same camaraderie that I had found back in the Infantry, but I was wrong. While cops have a bond and respect for strength, they don't know what it is like to try to sleep in a poncho with rain drizzling on your face, or to know that a hot meal & dry socks can be a luxury. If they work an 18-hour day, they get overtime pay for 10 hours of it.

The Guard and Reserve are great support organizations, and I am a retired Reservist. However, you risk going back into the "meat grinder" if the balloon goes up. The VFW and American Legion are wonderful support organizations. You know that the guy that your talking to has given up 2 or more years of his life to be prepared to defend this nation.

Even if you are qualified for the VFW, don't necessarily discard the Legion. Here in the rural country, the VFW only has about 12 members, while the Legion has about 50. So even though I can join each/either, I devote my time to the Legion Post, just because they have the personnel and assets to be more effective.

Our local Home Depot Store (and I believe that most others around the Country) will give me a 10% discount when I show my American Legion Membership Card. I don't use it every time that I purchase nuts & bolts, but I got a new smoker-grill, last month, and the savings on that single purchase paid for 2/3 of my annual membership dues.

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 2 at 2017 9:46 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:46:50 -0400

Nope couldn't follow your rules... So that's how I got into farming.

Response by CPT Beverly VanTull made Nov 2 at 2017 11:41 PM

CPT Beverly VanTull — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 23:41:20 -0400

Great perspective!! Even though I wasn't Infantry, I deployed twice as medical support. I didn't think it would be so rough in transition. But only if I knew!! Four years out and I am still learning the fine art of dealing within civilian life & civilian mindsets daily :) My Disabled American Vet (DAV) comrades help me all the time with adjusting, comraderie, venting, telling war stories, or pure chilling.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Nov 3 at 2017 12:47 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 00:47:47 -0400

A brother of mine, a Marine Major, told me about a civilian job interview he did once.

During the interview, the prospective employer said "I imagine there are some significant differences between military and civilian leadership techniques."

My brother said "Yep. Absolute power has its advantages."

(He ended with the job, by the way.)

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Nov 3 at 2017 6:22 PM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 18:22:15 -0400

I learned while in college that my stories got old really fast even though I thought the fellow students could learn from them. I eventually figured out to just let them learn the hard way after dismissing the lessons from any stories I told. The faculty had more appreciation for what I had to say because they recognized that I brought a level of professionalism and on-the-job experience that few, if any other students in the classroom had other than myself. At my civilian job there was a healthy number of veterans employed there and much of the leadership shared the same principles and values that the military uses so I don't doubt that socially I had it easy. The only real con to it was that it was a dead-end job.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Nov 5 at 2017 9:17 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 09:17:09 -0500

Joining the civilian workforce, private or public, does take some "adapt and overcome" capabilities. Yes, there are times you need to keep your mouth shut. There are many more times that the skills and values your learned in the military will carry you ahead and higher in civilian employment. Just one example, showing up on time. Yep, many civilian employees don't put much store in meeting start and end times, but their bosses often do. Waiting for some "slug" from accounting to show up for a budget meeting often really irritates the leader running the meeting. The fact that you showed up at least 5 minutes early and were fully prepared to contribute to the effort will be noticed and appreciated. There's many more examples I could call out, but it's all about dedication and effort.

Response by SPC Paul C. made Nov 8 at 2017 3:47 PM

SPC Paul C. — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 15:47:12 -0500

Great advice. Some of the information I wish I had known when I got out of the Army. But I did join the National Guard afterwards, and yes it helped in my transition into the civilian world.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Dec 28 at 2017 6:58 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 06:58:18 -0500

Excellent advice share.

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Dec 31 at 2017 8:46 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 20:46:58 -0500

When I transitioned out, or just got out...cause my unit just did not give a damn about its subordinates, I came home overseas....no support! had to find all the services by my self! here 8 years later doing much better I work for myself and do just great! I took time and effort so I have nothing to complain about! Life is good!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2017 8:55 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 20:55:58 -0500

You have to remember: Most of these people have zero concept of military service, and what they do know is from the movies and TV (incorrect). Yet, they will know more than you because they saw the "big picture" back home, and that you are probably one step away from being a homeless nut, because you went to Afghaniraqipakinam, caught a PSTD and going to make everybody crazy.

Still...a great support system can be found in the Reserve Component, the VFW/American Legion/ DAV/AmVets or any other veteran's service organizations. Some churches have robust former Servicemember membership. Those friendships mean a lot.

As for the uninitiated and the uninformed at work? Sometimes it is better to just leave it alone.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2018 1:45 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 13:45:01 -0500

This helped thank you

Response by SPC Mike Lake made Feb 8 at 2018 10:25 PM

SPC Mike Lake — Thu, 08 Feb 2018 22:25:07 -0500

Meekness is not weakness !!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2018 3:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 15:11:38 -0500

I hear you man, when I finally decide to hang up my boots for good it will be a tough transition. I'll be in 12 years this May and look to stay in as long as I can, even after hitting my 20 AFS.

I love the uniform and being able to be the leader that cares for his Soldiers and their families. The thought of being at a civilian job, if I'm being honest, terrifies the hell out of me and has legitimately given me anxiety. What does that mean for me once I get to that point? I don't know. I sincerely don't know, but that's because I have no ability to see the future. What I CAN do, though, is take heed from posts like this one and try to prepare myself mentally for any possibility.

One thing that I feel should be said, though, is that everyone is different. Not many people have the same experiences with the military as I, and what they take from it will be different from what I do. All we can do is listen to each other's stories and make our own assumptions and decisions.

Good luck to all, and rake care.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Mar 7 at 2018 4:30 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 16:30:15 -0500

The military life is not for everyone and I have always respected that. However, I never realized how much I miss the military life until I was out on retirement. The best years as a civilian was when I was a contractor in Iraq supporting the Soldiers I admired.