Recent study finds that more guns does not lead to less crime. What are your thoughts on the issue?

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:07:46 -0400

A high-profile shooting, like the June 17 crime that left dead nine members of a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, is typically followed by calls for greater gun control, along with counter arguments that the best way to stop gun crimes is with more guns.

"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.

A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.

"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis

Guns Don't Deter Crime, Study Finds

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 3:19 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 03:19:18 -0400

i believe there is still some data in this link that is a little miss leading. I pulled this from the article.
this study method proves that more guns are linked to more gun crime and overall homicide, but not that access to guns directly causes this criminal uptick, said study researcher David Hemenway, the director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.

now I give the example if a robber comes into my house armed with a knife or a weapon other then a firearm and I shoot and kill him in self defense then that would count as a gun homicide would it not? so that fact that I used my weapon in self defense would then be added to the statistic saying that owning a gun leads to more gun crime and gun homicide.

Response by SPC Thomas Baldwin made Jul 12 at 2015 5:01 AM

SPC Thomas Baldwin — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:01:48 -0400

More guns no but more LEGAL gun owners does have a impact because it gives the criminal a moment of pause. Mush in the same way MAD prevented world War III during the cold war. No one is being forced to have a gun so why are they trying to force us to give them up.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 12 at 2015 5:47 AM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 05:47:41 -0400

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad Let the balance of the studies begin! Can we focus on the criminal use of weapons and remove the stats that occur when lawful use by police and home owners for defense?
I am confident the left will roll out 'objective' study after study. Very soon they will vilify anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment rights as a gun violence 'denier' and tell you the science is settled. All the while pushing bias study after study into the MSM and media matters.

Why not put emphasis on development of non-lethals that can be used by citizens and police to protect themselves. Why not focus on criminal use of weapons?

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jul 12 at 2015 6:14 AM

PO3 David Fries — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 06:14:48 -0400

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Put a single gun in the hands of someone well trained in the use of a firearm, and respectful of the weapon, and you have defense. Put a bunch of weapons in the hands of someone that is not well trained and negligent, and that is an accident waiting to happen.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 6:24 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 06:24:14 -0400

I find it interesting that just now they completed this study when about 20 years ago they did this exact same study and found that gun control laws do not affect gun related crimes good or bad.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Jul 12 at 2015 6:27 AM

Cpl Chris Rice — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 06:27:07 -0400

I think that it’s a worthwhile consideration to think about how the arms buildup mentality may affect this situation. If the populace in general has an increase in legal firearm owners, and the tools necessary to commit a crime require you to be able to match firepower as a thief, you most likely are going to go ahead and acquire firearm yourself. It’s just like if the only access in your home for thief is through your second-floor window they do not give up robbing you and find Jesus, they go get a ladder. Or as I brought up in another example they may go ahead and just shoot first, one of the tendencies with non-law-abiding firearm owners is they are not usually the instigator which gives them the drop, and they have had the opportunity to consider the situation before it occurs, which may allow them to be more willing to pull the trigger than the gun owner.

It is good that they are doing these studies because it is important to note that a single study does not prove anything, ever, in any circumstance. But as a body of evidence begins to present causation is easier to determine, and one day we might see meta-analysis on this that does provide us answers on the best way to protect ourselves.

As for Gov. Huckabee I would say our views on Christianity must differ, and this does not appear to be from my understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ. But as with any crime if we went ahead and had a uniformed police officer escort every single person everywhere they go there would be no crime, if the country was completely populated with off-duty police officers again we would have no crime, and again if there was that mythical good guy with the gun who after the initial shock of the perpetrator starting to shoot was able to draw his weapon and take action without drawing fire from the individual who started the event then we would not have had the tragedy. It may just be that the event happened inside of a church, but I have trouble with advocating for people going to church armed, simply from my own personal belief that the fact that I would carry a weapon with have to do with my inability to place all of my trust in God, and it is definitely an interpretation have to decide on my own about religion is that I don’t necessarily think that God finds my life more valuable than the shooter’s life. I have faith that if I die I will have eternal life, what if I’m robbing that shooter of his opportunity to have redemption.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 12 at 2015 8:50 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 08:50:24 -0400

Simple numbers say that the more weapon around increase the probability of those weapons getting into the hands of those that should not have them.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 9:39 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 09:39:31 -0400

I think studies on correlation between gun ownership and violence miss the point entirely, whether they find positive or negative correlation. A gun is a method of violence, not the violence itself.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 9:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 09:53:05 -0400

Unfortunately all firearms discussions tend to devolve into "guns, good or bad, hhhmmm?" and ignore everything that surrounds the issue, such as why are people turning to crime, how are the treated after they are caught, what restrictions are on them after jail time; also legal gun ownership rights, responsibilities, and obligations, such as training, secure storage, and so on.

Gun violence doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are all sorts of things going on around it in society that leads to the moment of violence, or deals with the impact afterwards, and conditions that set the stage (or not) for the next round of violence. Anything that focuses solely on the guns and nothing else is going to be just another pointless go-round.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 10:13 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:13:09 -0400

Not really an answer to your question, Gunny, but it really pains this old retired LEO to see that beautiful S&W Model 29-2 lying atop that pile of weapons, intentionally damaged as it is.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 12 at 2015 11:56 AM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:56:01 -0400

I just wish they wouldn't lump all firearm related deaths in the "gun violence" category. Suicide (in general terms) and self-defense shootings (by default) are not crimes. Why list them as such? As far as I know, the FBI and the CDC still list police related shootings (justified homicides) as gun violence crimes. To me, that skews any data points IMO.

And the adage about statistics still rings true. "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics."

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2015 12:37 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:37:13 -0400

Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, with 45.7 guns per 100 residents (ranking below only the United States, Serbia, and Yemen in this measurement).

A list of countries by firearm-related death rate shows Switzerland as having 6.4 firearm deaths per 100,000 population per year, a figure considerably lower than in the United States (10.27) but higher than a number of other countries. As for gun-related crime in general, a 2001 BBC article reported that in Switzerland "the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept."
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp#YH16A5AgGVOkXTIm.99

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

"Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jul 12 at 2015 2:14 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 14:14:43 -0400

I buy (on average) about two guns a year....I've had zero problems with crime or criminals approaching me or my family....I have no problem with more guns.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 13 at 2015 9:47 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:47:23 -0400

More guns in the wrong hands sounds like a better statement, which why I support some gun control measures.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 6:33 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 06:33:50 -0400

There's a whole lot of problems with this study. For one it's comparing firearms homicide to justifiable homicide. It is not comparing homicide to defensive gun uses. If we look at some studies regarding defensive firearms uses we can see why. The old stand by is 2,500,000 DGUs per annum (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995) and a more recent number is 235,700 DGUs per annum (Firearm Violence, 1993-2011, Bureau of Justice Statistics, May 2013). Or we can go to some of the most recent research, Obama's so called gun study by the CDC "Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence ( 2013 )". Now I could summarize a couple of key points, especially including their defensive firearms use estimates, but Guns and Ammo did that for me three years ago, so I'm just going to link. Read the report, it's quite interesting.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/

CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns & Ammo

CDC gun research is a blow to Obama’s unconstitutional agenda. It largely supports the Second Amendment, and contradicts common anti-gun arguments.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2015 6:08 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 18:08:42 -0400

Guns arent the problem but simply a tool. People are the problem...

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2015 6:27 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 18:27:48 -0400

I have never seen a gun with a self-actuating trigger.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 5 at 2015 9:37 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:37:31 -0400

Denmark's got some of the toughest gun laws there are - guess what, there is still crime. Their knife laws you wouldn't believe - I've got a Gerber folding pocket knife with an two inch locking blade - illegal. If I get caught with it, automatic 7 days in jail, don't pass go. Yet, there is still a nice crime rate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 12:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:02:46 -0400

Now what about non fire arm aggravated assaults, robbery's, and rapes. yes if there are more guns, guns will be used in more crimes. What I do not see is what more guns do to total crime.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 12:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:21:02 -0400

It's not the guns at all, rather the intent of the person. If they are determined to hurt or kill someone, they will find the means to do so, gun or no gun.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Sep 30 at 2015 10:28 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:28:59 -0400

It makes sense to me. There are two things that deter crime; high police presence and the potential for effective resistance on the part of would-be victims of crime. In places with high levels of gun control, the latter form of deterrence is dramatically lessened. Thus, it's not in spite of strict gun control that areas with those types of laws have such high gun crime but as a direct result thereof.

Response by SPC Gary Hubbard made Oct 6 at 2015 6:03 PM

SPC Gary Hubbard — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 18:03:58 -0400

These Cowards that commit these crimes alway's go to Gun free Zones. So your Study is not correct! Why not do a study on the States and Cities that have tougher Gun laws against the open carry States and Cities.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Oct 6 at 2015 10:24 PM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:24:26 -0400

Harvard professors aren't biased at all.

/sarcasm

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:03 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 22:03:17 -0400

More guns do not lead to less crime, but that does not translate into less guns lead to less crime. There is a positive correlation between availability of guns and lower violent crime, if only because the criminal chooses a time when he is less likely to be confronted.

But I think the better point is that there is no close relationship between guns and crime, which of course suggests that gun control laws have little to no effect on crime. (And that's what we see, unless we see the reverse when more laws means more crime as in Chicago and Washington D.C.)

That means we are looking in the wrong direction, and we are looking there because so many politicians have a political investment in the outcome that may have nothing at all to do with making the nation safer, but has a lot to do with their personal philosophy.

Maybe we should be looking at mental illness. Maybe we should look for the causes of despair and hopelessness in our society. Maybe we should expect everyone to do something for the good of the country. An old saying is that you don't have the right to steer the ship if you haven't pulled on an oar - maybe we could learn from this.

Maybe we could remember that every weekend in Chicago more homicides are committed than any of the mass shootings in our history. Maybe there are more important problems to deal with and solve.

Maybe we just need to tell the fanatics to take a hike and see if people can discuss the issues and arrive at a non-political and non-partisan solution.

But I won't be holding my breath waiting for any sign of actual thought from the American public. As a group, we have the attention span of a four-year old.

Response by TSgt David L. made Oct 12 at 2015 3:06 AM

TSgt David L. — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:06:09 -0400

They need to look at the state of Florida...

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Oct 20 at 2015 9:51 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:51:14 -0400

All I would say is: 1. Who did the study and/or who funded it; 2. Was the study well done (sample size, account for bias,etc); 3. Was the study peer reviewed; 4. Are the results repeatable; 5. Is this just 1 study or are there other well-ordered studies with similar results?

These are the questions the media and the public should ask--and understand--when any study comes out REGARDLESS of what the subject is or conclusions claimed. It's about the quality of the conclusions drawn from the data used to make well informed decisions.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 10:49 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:49:17 -0400

I'm actually pro-second amendment, but I do feel that Americans have a radical, bordering obsessive, stance on gun legality by comparison with the rest of the world. I did feel safer through my 5 years in Germany, and I believe that the stats would back that feeling up. Please, don't tell me to go live there. I'm a patriot. I love and proudly serve my country. I own and support gun ownership, but let's get real folks. It is not a coincidence that of 1st world countries, America has the highest per capita firearm-related death rate and also a higher per capita number of guns than ANY country in the world, including the war zones we all talk about, at more than 1 per person. That's per capita! Amazing considering the size of our population.

Our situation is not the same as Germany, because their country was swept for guns both by the Nazi party and by the Allies after the war. By comparison, we can't hope to actually get all of the guns off of the streets. So, in a way we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. There's no clear solution to the problem, but we should certainly do what we can to limit gun ownership to responsible citizens.

I'll tell you this though, when the zombpocalypse comes, there's no more prepared society in the world!

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Oct 26 at 2015 11:33 AM

SSgt Paul Esquibel — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:33:51 -0400

After reading the posted quotes and article it relates too then viewing the FBI murder rates per state, one has to ask the question. How do you determine the variable factors within each state that contributes to homicide of a firearm. Example: Texas and California have the highest rate of gun murders in the U.S. per the FBI statistics of 2013, however Texas has 26.98 million citizens and California with 38.8 million. Per the FBI statistics Texas had 1,133 murders and California 1,745. Percentage wise (rounded population to nearest whole number) of murder within each state to it's population is Texas at: .004% and California at: .004%. So what additional factors might increase a states gun violence with numbers not even 1% of the population? California is one of the most strict gun control states and Texas is not. So how do researcher account for their thesis. Research per the Washington Times: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/14/murder-rates-drop-as-concealed-carry-permits-soar-/?page=all says murder rates are dropping with more concealed permits. While all researchers agree suicide has the most direct link to guns homicide does not. So then it comes down to specifics, a household does have a higher rate of suicide due to the availability of a firearm but that does not mean they will commit homicide. However states with concealed permit owners have the lowest violent crime statistics because criminals do not know who is carrying and who isn't. Additionally those states or cities that have the strictest gun control laws also have the highest violent crime rates. In my opinion, you have a right to own a weapon regardless of what state you live in, however just as we all were trained on the disciplines of gun safety civilians should also be taught and not just for conceal carry but for ownership in general, as we always say knowledge is power so we as society have a duty to increase the knowledge of firearm safety to ensure the safety of all.

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report

The number of concealed carry handgun permits has skyrocketed since President Obama was first elected, while murder rates have fallen, according to a new report set to be released Wednesday.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jan 5 at 2016 2:12 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 14:12:04 -0500

And here we go with more studies that 100 of them will say there is an increase in gun violence and another 100 that will say there is a decrease in gun violence with probably another 100 saying no change in gun violence.
I do not have the numbers but I am willing to bet that the number of crimes committed by law abiding citizens cannot even compare to the number of crimes committed by criminals using guns on a daily basis.
Getting rid of the illegal guns and thus locking up the criminals using them will greatly reduce the number of gun crimes and I sure don't need an overpriced study by a professor of pediatrics who happens to be an epidemiologist tell me something else.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Mar 3 at 2016 5:24 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:24:46 -0500

Since 2007, the number of concealed handgun permits has soared from 4.6 million to over 12.8 million, and murder rates have fallen from 5.6 killings per 100,000 people to just 4.2, about a 25 percent drop, according to the report from the Crime Prevention Research Center.

Also, the latest stats/studies show that BANNING guns doesn't lower crime.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Apr 28 at 2017 8:34 PM

TSgt James Carson — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 20:34:08 -0400

Remember, Liberals never learn. That's why in our history, it was Liberals who failed us, then got good people killed.

Response by PO2 Larry OBrien made Nov 26 at 2022 4:23 AM

PO2 Larry OBrien — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 04:23:05 -0500

We are taking guns from the law abiding citizens. The people that commit these horrific acts find ways to get gun(s) from the black market. the illegal guns run rampant as law abiding guns diminish.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Nov 26 at 2022 4:57 AM

LTC Trent Klug — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 04:57:53 -0500

We have a segment of society glorifying gang activity and the culture of violence and death. We have a segment of society seeing serving time in prison as a rite of passage. We have a segment of society seeing narcotics trafficking as a valid way of making money. Yet we concentrate on the number of guns bought legally, instead of those sold on the black market.

Response by SPC Kent Laughlin made Nov 27 at 2022 8:28 AM

SPC Kent Laughlin — Sun, 27 Nov 2022 08:28:01 -0500

any argument that throws "cold water" on the argument the a well armed populace is a safe populace is offered by those that want to control that formerly well armed populace ... I direct your attention of Germany, Russia, China and a host of small countries around the world that saw disarmament by their government result in the loss of life BY THAT GOVERNMENT. In situations of a more modern government we have only to look at the UK and the Australians who were lied to in the same manner and gave up their right to own weapons only to see violent crime stay the same or increase with the use of weapons still a significant portion of those incidents.. Also the media in the USA and other clowns around the globe make up all sorts of scenarios to suggest that "unarmed society" is a "polite society".. loads of manure for the children that are frightened by the thought someone having a weapon near them.. A real evaluation of requires the research of all police agencies annual reports of violent crime outcomes. Many times violence does not happen do to the "good guy" simply showing that a weapon is in play..

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Nov 28 at 2022 2:32 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 14:32:28 -0500

Hello hot button issue. :) Sure if we got rid of 99.999% of guns in the country we would almost certainly have less gun crime. Are we going to do that? No, probably not. Instead we will do something to get rid of some types of guns, but many, many others will be just as available as now and nothing will be solved. There may be some minor increase in background checks, but likely still full of holes. The right will point to it and say "see, gun control doesn't work", the left will say, "well we didn't get rid of enough of them." The violence will continue.

Personally I think we have to acknowledge we want to live in a society with guns and have to think about solutions that minimize the "unwanted side effects" of that desire. I also think we need to be more targeted in what we want to achieve. In my mind the problem is in mass shootings, not as much general gun crime.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2022 2:08 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 14:08:45 -0500

" higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies"

This is an interesting statement, worthy of more scrutiny. First, how do they count "ownership"? Is it based on registration records, or have they sampled a set asking the question, "Do you own a gun?" Is the ownership legal? After all, I assume gang members aren't providing an accurate count of the number of guns they "own."

"More guns does not lead to less crimes." Certainly possible. I tend to believe that there is little correlation between the number of guns and the amount of crime. A more probable correlation might be the number of guns legally owned as compared to the number of guns illegally owned. His view seems to be that total number of guns is the problem. I venture to guess that the percentage of total guns illegally owned is higher in Chicago, for example, than it is in Houston, and that does show a positive correlation to crime.

As to robberies, If you don't own a firearm, it can't be robbed from you, so counting firearm robberies artificially inflates the number of gun crimes, effectively making the owner of a gun complicit in the crime rate. If you likewise consider drunk driving accidents to be higher in places where car ownership is higher, you can see the fallacy in this consideration.

Did Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, draw his curve first and then apply appropriate data? And just what does a Pediatrician know about guns or laws? I'm not saying he deliberately skewed his data, nor am I saying he can't be an expert. I'm asking if he has an axe to grind that people should know about before accepting his conclusions uncritically.

Response by BG Mike Bridges made Jan 11 at 2023 11:39 AM

BG Mike Bridges — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 11:39:44 -0500

I am prepared to stop bad people using any means. Guns are quickest.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Christiansen made Jan 13 at 2023 2:46 PM

PO2 Jeffrey Christiansen — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 14:46:13 -0500

I would not put any value in any study made in today's world, they pick and choose areas or people that agree with whatever they want to support.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Jan 16 at 2023 5:14 PM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:14:19 -0500

Well, usually more guns in law abiding citizens hands do help to reduce crimes. And even if it didn't, it certainly does not make it worse. Therefore, leave it alone.

Response by SSG Ricky Johnson made Jan 18 at 2023 11:01 AM

SSG Ricky Johnson — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 11:01:55 -0500

Until politicians call it what it is, a mental health crisis, there will be more shootings. It is not a sane person that walks into a school and kills children. A gun is an inanimate object, it takes a person to pull the trigger. I believe that the number of people that die in car accidents exceed the number of so called “gun” fatalities, yet they are not calling for manufacturers to stop making cars! Mentally ill persons drive vehicles into parade participants, down bicycle paths killing people, drive drunk a take out a family. Politicians will never put the blame where it belongs because inanimate objects can’t fight back.

Response by MSG Darren Gaddy made Jan 18 at 2023 9:58 PM

MSG Darren Gaddy — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 21:58:11 -0500

So responsible gun owners are just lumped in to a statistical conundrum with serial killers and school shooters who in a lot of cases have shown signs of mental illness on more than one occasion. So THEY count how many guns are sold not taking into consideration anything else and because responsible gun owners are not out policing criminals and performing vigilante justice, studies like this arise. This is ridiculous!

Response by SSG Brian Pearce made Jan 18 at 2023 11:58 PM

SSG Brian Pearce — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 23:58:59 -0500

Just like with anything if you are willing to spend the money you can get expert after expert opinion to support or disprove anything. The left wants strict gun control and they have donors and supporters with DEEP pockets. They have basically snubbed their noses at every law enforcement report or statistic disproving their arguments. Having worn a badge in several states and having been a Cop as many years as I was in the Army, trust me when I tell you that everything that is wrong with crime and gun control can be traced directly to politicians.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2023 12:38 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 00:38:56 -0500

Criminals don't follow, or care about gun control laws. All that does is make law abiding citizens less safe.

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Jan 19 at 2023 5:57 AM

CPL T.A. Nelson — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 05:57:46 -0500

I support the right of trained individuals without massive mental issues or violent history's owning guns. I know what the actual 2nd amendment says and it does require regulations for the ownership of guns or for them to be kept in an armory.
More guns does not mean less crime but if the litigation was done correctly and laws were enforced it would reduce crime. Gun violence is not going to be reduced until everyone agrees on what it actually means...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2023 9:32 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 09:32:13 -0500

More guns, less guns. When was the last time anybody did a violence study. People kill each other, guns, knives, rocks, hands. Guns are a tool .

Response by Sgt Ervin Jones made Jan 19 at 2023 11:50 AM

Sgt Ervin Jones — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:50:21 -0500

The problem with is with illegal shootings and gun related crimes are that criminals obtain guns illegally. Properly trained individuals can be a deterrent to gun crimes. So called studies can be manipulated to back what ever issue someone is either for or against.
The only gun control law that needs to be established is one that makes an example of a person that is selling or buying guns illegally to the fullest extent of the law. And the
In Houston just recently a turd was holding up people in a restaurant using a plastic gun (it was reported that it could of been a b b pistol). When the turd turned his back, a patron stood up and shot the criminal. The patron was a legal gun owner. The criminal turd did not survive.
In Texas it is legal to use deadly force to prevent a violent crime against yourself or a third person to include aggravated robbery.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2023 11:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:58:04 -0500

First and foremost, you can make research say whatever you want. That's the art of statistics.

Secondly, lets say for example that you are some crud, planning on an evening of robbery & rape. However some of your running buddies have recently had their as$e$ shot off because the formerly intimidated citizens have started resisting criminals like you. You also read in the newspaper the other day that 60% or more citizens were now carrying.

Now that is a real crime stopper.

Response by SPC Steven Cook made Jan 19 at 2023 12:10 PM

SPC Steven Cook — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 12:10:44 -0500

Stats say 50 percent of gun violence is involved with stolen guns. Your gun laying in house, your vehicle seat. And most are by handgun not automatic weapons. There should be no infringement on gun rights unless you commit a gun crime including theft of a gun. People should take a class, actually be trained with weapons and purchase.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Jan 19 at 2023 11:45 PM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 23:45:13 -0500

Bullshit! Anyone who believes that is an idiot.

Response by SGT Peter Hayes made Jan 20 at 2023 10:47 AM

SGT Peter Hayes — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:47:21 -0500

once again, the problem is not with the firearm it's with the people that. use them to commit the crime. and the acts of violence. if a person has it in his mind to commit a crime or a violent act, they find. a way to get there. hands on a firearm or use some other. Type of device to achieve. his goal
no guns ok use a sword. or how about a vehicle? or even explosive? how about knifes even common tools like hammers. clubs and many other items. no the problem is not with the firearm it's with the people that use them for nefarious. Purposes

Response by RADM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2023 4:23 PM

RADM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:23:33 -0500

Harvard; that says it all. It’s biased

Response by PO1 Robert Gasser made Jan 20 at 2023 5:34 PM

PO1 Robert Gasser — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:34:20 -0500

Responsible gun owners don’t have issues with this subject. Most of us are in that category. So STOCK UP!

Response by LCpl Jose Lugo made Jan 20 at 2023 7:15 PM

LCpl Jose Lugo — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 19:15:32 -0500

I believe in a honest law abiding citizen owning a gun for self defense and hunting as written in our US Constitution which was written for every American the right to bare arms. I do not believe in anyone or party changing our US Constitution.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Jan 21 at 2023 1:22 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:22:25 -0500

Who paid for the study???

Response by LTC David Stark made Jan 21 at 2023 3:24 PM

LTC David Stark — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 15:24:54 -0500

Pretty typical "study" conducted by the Medical community, which has a definite bias against firearms, and therefore consistently "cherry-picks" their data and subject groups to get the answers the AMA wants to see.

Response by LTC Jr Hutto made Jan 21 at 2023 8:07 PM

LTC Jr Hutto — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 20:07:23 -0500

1. MSN is a leftist "news" organization and generally as trustworthy as 60 Minutes, which has ZERO credibility.
2. Professor of pediatrics and epidemiologist is hardly the best "studies" compared to those done by serious, professional, criminologists, who use FBI uniform crime statistics instead of pre-conceived feelings to formulate decisions.
3. Harvard Medical School? What a joke! The anti-gun answer is a pre-determined outcome given it came from this extreme leftist anti-gun 'university'.
4. Gunny, either you are just trying to stir up a bunch of nonsense just for fun, or you are just full of leftist gun-grabbing socialist bull spit. Either way, you're batting way out of your league here.
5. The real answer to your question is that squeamish leftists, who refuse to punish people who misuse firearms in their criminal activities is what the problem in America today. It has nothing to do with the number of legally owned firearms by law abiding Americans who use their firearms for legitimate purposes, never has and never will.

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Jan 22 at 2023 12:59 PM

SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 12:59:53 -0500

Guns have never committed a crime

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Jan 22 at 2023 5:29 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 17:29:37 -0500

The focus should be on the criminal aspect, more ghost guns are being found among those committing the crimes. So basically the "Cat is out of the Bag." I mean so long as one can 3D print a weapon at home with Thermal-Plastic then there will be no stopping criminals getting guns. The only thing that could be done in these cases is imposing longer jail time.
Example if one commits a robbery with a ghost gun and someone is killed, they should face the highest murder charges which in most cases they do however, it should be with no plea deals for lesser charge. They printed that weapon with intent to commit.
Then there is the "Straw Buyers" that are dealing guns to criminals that need to be dealt with. If they are caught dealing a known brand with serial number then throw the book at them however, if they are caught dealing in ghost guns then we need to be able to bury them under the jail.
What needs to happen is the end of "Plea Deals" for criminal with caught weapons.

We already have age limits on things like buy alcohol because of the teenage deaths involved for many reasons. We also raised the age limit for buying handguns, it would stand to reason to raise the age limit for teenagers or under 21, only on the purchasing of assault style weapons they should still be able to buy bolt action rifles and shotguns.
Most, not all school shootings are committed by those under the age of 21. I know this will not totally stop school shootings however it will reduce the number of such shootings.

Now the real argument is magazine capacity. Is there a real reason for thirty round mags in the civilian market? I understand the Rights to "Bare Arms" and that it should not be infringe upon.
I suggest and I only suggest is to limit mag capacity to 10 rounds, this will not stop mass shooters however it would slow them down just long enough for someone of "Legal Carry" to react. Most people who haven't ever been fired upon hesitate, with that brief moment of silence, their minds will engage and then react.
10 round magazines will also fall in line with NRA competition matches. the match use military style weapons, from M1 Grands to AR15s. There are 5 sessions in a match and each session fires 10 rounds. If the M1 Grand help win WWII using only 8 round clips, then 10 round mags can stop government suppression.

Remember this is suggestions for an open forum and not meant for name calling or down grading one another. We are all military regardless of which branch, I suggest that we all continue to show respect to our brothers and sisters.

Response by Capt Michael Wilford made Jan 22 at 2023 8:35 PM

Capt Michael Wilford — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 20:35:59 -0500

The problem with studies is they can be manipulated to produce any desired result. Since when is an epidemiologist an expert on violent crime, firearms, and the ratios at which firearms are used to commit and prevent crime? This would be akin to a crime statistician weighing in on epidemiology.

Response by SSG Philip Evans made Jan 22 at 2023 8:45 PM

SSG Philip Evans — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 20:45:42 -0500

One study out of many hundreds that say otherwise? It's not "the more guns you have",
It's putting guns into more citizens' hands that are willing to do what is necessary when evil happens! and believing in traditional "AMERICAN" values such as the U.S. Constitution! Sin Cain picked up the 1st rock and killed his brother, humanity was doomed live with murder! That is a human failing! We all need to try better! But... Taking away personal self-defense is not the answer! The answer is enforcing existing laws, punishing criminals to the fullest extent of the law, and if they kill again... Execute Them! In Public! Set An Example that others will fear! Firearms are tools just like many other tools. They have a purpose and a proper place to be used in society. People that have no respect or place no value in other people or human life ARE THE PROBLEM!
PUNISH AND ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM... NOT THE TOOL!

Response by PO3 Edward Riddle made Jan 22 at 2023 10:50 PM

PO3 Edward Riddle — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 22:50:36 -0500

Criminals for the most part are cowards. I don't believe any "studies" that say more guns means more crime. If a criminal is not sure whether or not the other guy or gal is armed or not, they will think twice about committing most crimes.

Response by SSG James Knopp made Jan 23 at 2023 1:37 AM

SSG James Knopp — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 01:37:28 -0500

Everyone has a right to bear arms, whether it’s one or ten. Just because you have multitudes of firearms does not mean you have malicious intent. One of the best laws to pass is the “concealed carry permit”. If, and I don’t say this lightly, a law abiding citizen is properly trained and follows the law to the “T”, then it’s their constitutional right to CC. I’m not a fan though of open carry where one is in full display walking around like John Wayne looking for a gunfight. But, to each his own. Criminals would think twice about committing crimes against humanity because of not knowing if they would be on the receiving end of a FMJ. Not to mention those poor souls in these schools where properly trained teachers could of stopped the carnage or the club shootings that could or would of possibly been averted by taking out the perpetrator by a patron or door security.
Anti gun ownership people need to wake up and realize that if it wasn’t for pro gun advocates, this country would start becoming like the “Wild West”. You only hear negativity until someone close is a victim of crime. But I can’t say this enough, if you want to carry then put in the training.
“Train Like You Fight, Fight Like You Train”!
That being said, I believe their should be consequences for the Pharmaceutical companies and the doctors who peddle their pills whenever a senseless crime with a weapon becomes the focus on the nightly news. Investigate them and not the gun manufacturers. Anti gun ownerships only focus is taking our guns away,

Response by SSgt William Blanshan made Jan 23 at 2023 7:03 AM

SSgt William Blanshan — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 07:03:11 -0500

uses one incident that took place in a gun free zone. And from msn, to boot. they're a bunch of fascist fuckwads. My family didn't spill generatinos of blood so retards like them could lie to us and have us believe it.
ACTUAL studies prove conclusively that criminals won't dare a crime where they think they'll get shot. If you touch my guns, son, I'll wear your finger bones as a necklace.

Response by SSG Michael Langley made Jan 23 at 2023 10:56 PM

SSG Michael Langley — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 22:56:34 -0500

I would be interested in reading the study before condemning it. As long as we have a hodgepodge of state and local laws, the concept of one entity, be it city, county or state, ownership statistics fails to consider mobility. Oft cited Chicago gun violence fails to note the origin of the weapons. I sat on a Federal Grand Jury in California and invariably weapons used in cases we handled were either stolen or purchased out of state.

Response by SrA Art Siatkowsky made Jan 23 at 2023 11:41 PM

SrA Art Siatkowsky — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:41:10 -0500

Total bs study. Of course its a lefty study. More legal gun owners equals much less crime....or as this bs study suggest...more illegal guns like we see in Chicago equals more crime. Devil is in the details of the study. This is leftist propaganda.

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Jan 24 at 2023 1:29 AM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 01:29:57 -0500

I own a good number of guns and I carry every time I leave the house and sometimes at home. Near as I can tell both help prevent me from being a victim of a crime. Now there is one major factor here that leads me to my opinion and is I don't have my head shoved so far up my fourth point of contact to lead me to libtard thinking. Every state that has concealed carry or constitutional carry has seen a drop in crime. A study that says otherwise is nothing more than an agenda to perpetuate a lie to accomplish a bigger agenda. People that value their rights don't fall for the B.S..

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Jan 24 at 2023 1:43 AM

MSgt John Taylor — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 01:43:07 -0500

The gun is merely a tool. Grant you, it's capable of inflicting more destruction than say a knife, but so does a pickup truck through a crowd of people. As long as we focus on the tools and not the individual, nothing will get corrected.

Response by SGT Alan Simmons made Jan 24 at 2023 6:10 AM

SGT Alan Simmons — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 06:10:28 -0500

Articles like this miss the points. More gun control laws only disarm the law-abiding citizen. They do not disarm the criminal. They only add more charges to someone already determined to break the law. And once that person has determined they are going to kill someone, they will find a way - and yes, a gun is the easiest way. But there are other ways to kill - and with greater effect that are also illegal. And those laws don't stop people from using those techniques.

(This site needs an edit function)

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jan 24 at 2023 2:42 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:42:38 -0500

Perhaps not but more guns give you a fighting chance against a home invasion by an armed intruder or a gang of malicious kids on a public transportation. It's a self-protection issue and about your right to protect yourself and your family and friends in an era of increasing lax police caused by weak mayors and governors, open borders, and rising crime.

Response by Sgt Dale Boston made Jan 24 at 2023 7:59 PM

Sgt Dale Boston — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 19:59:37 -0500

Please hear me as a former successful combat marine, the answer to the southern border, the problem is not a wall, the answer is the same as Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and Kuwait, Germany Japan south Korea bring the military professionals and police here and train them or we send troops there and help them take back their countries and communities back from the gangs, now there is no reason to leave their beloved country to come here. That is the answer, a lot cheaper than what we are doing now. Answer to mass shootings all over America, one answer, look at YouTube of the Philippines. The Philippines is a 3rd world developing country with better all-around security than the United States. (our pride is killing us.)Attacks on Military recruiting center, schools, churches, hospitals, and our workplaces, politicians being shot playing baseball, kidnapping plan for Michigan governor and politicians need to stop, the answer is very clear. (professional security everywhere) these are the times we are in. finally like we have law enforcement on our roadways to protect the public, we now need an army of information technologists to patrol the world wide web.

Response by Capt Rob Carty made Jan 25 at 2023 10:37 AM

Capt Rob Carty — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:37:26 -0500

A "recent study"! You can rig a "study" to say whatever you want. I can't say whether this "study" is legitimate, but I can say that there's a giant pile of "studies" that have turned out to be completely wrong. Stop giving credence to the agendas of other people and listen to your own common sense.

Response by MSG Harvey Kane made Jan 26 at 2023 5:40 PM

MSG Harvey Kane — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 17:40:20 -0500

For some strange reason there is a belief that someone wants to take away your gun(s)! No one wants to take away your toy! But, reasonable control of weapons in our society is needed. The Brady bill was rather effective, but then again it was passed when St. Ronnie was shot and ended with the mass killing of kids!
Have you noticed that you have to pay a hefty car insurance bill but not a hefty gun insurance bill?

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Feb 8 at 2023 7:59 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 07:59:47 -0500

- If you have no business to carry a gun, then don't. There is a time and place for everything.
- Power is like a sweet nectar it is hard to resist the temptation to wield it.
- If you own a gun, then you are responsible to the consequence of possessing one.
- Even a skill trained soldiers can cause a friendly fire if a law enforcement shoots you, blame yourself.
- The ROE is clear if you point a gun at someone, be committed to go through with it; otherwise, leave it sheathed.
- ...

These are my thought on this topic. Any question? Comment? Take a number.

Response by PO2 Frances Tauzer made Feb 19 at 2023 11:22 PM

PO2 Frances Tauzer — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 23:22:43 -0500

FYI I ran into a dead end following the msn.com link to read the article for myself; best I could do is a link for a summary at the National Library of Medicine (on pubmed.gov) after searching for the researcher's name plus 'gun study'. Might require a subscription or access to a university library to read more details. There were links for related articles, and articles that cited the original, on the web page; for anyone who wants to read for themselves so they can make up their own mind on the subject.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26091930/

Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime in the U.S.: An Ecologic Study - PubMed

The findings do not support the hypothesis that higher population firearm ownership rates reduce firearm-associated criminal perpetration. On the contrary, evidence shows that states with higher levels of firearm ownership have an increased risk for violent crimes perpetrated with a firearm. Public …

Response by SSgt Jon Hall made Feb 20 at 2023 12:33 PM

SSgt Jon Hall — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 12:33:51 -0500

The idea of more guns is right in theory but the recent incident at Uvalde, Texas demonstrates that armed people, even law enforcement, that aren't willing to use them in defense of themselves or others not only increase their danger but also help skew the data on firearm accidents and crime prevention. I usually poll new permit students if they are willing to actually use the firearm in defense of themselves or others or do they intend to just display an empty gun in an attempt to just shew the assailant away. My blood and Goar approach as well as describing the possible legal complications has been pretty effective in weeding out the "I bought a gun and now I'm safe" crowd. One training aid that I picked up in a training film once, proved very effective. New applicants are taken to the range before class begins where a large can of tomatoes were placed on a table with a cardboard screen on three sides. The can is then shot splattering its contents on the cardboard. Class sized is usually reduced at that point. Accident or intentional the results are the same.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 20 at 2023 1:58 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 13:58:57 -0500

Then explain how states with more concealed carry permits, have less crime. Explain how cities like Chicago, NYC and many in California with strict gun control laws, have more crime.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Feb 20 at 2023 5:59 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 17:59:05 -0500

To answer your specific question: my first thought when seeing this study mentioned in a headline is that I can instantly tell the politics of the writer by whether they say the the study showed more guns does not lead to [less crime] or [more crime] -- I have seen articles using both versions of that headline, each of which are deliberately slanting the headline in the knowledge that most people will never even read the article and almost no one will read the study.

It is easier for headline writers to manipulate the story by talking about what the study did NOT show, because neither side wants to make a big deal about what the study did show.

What the study did show is that there is absolutely no relationship between the amount of guns and the amount of crime -- an outcome that doesn't suit the activists on either side since each likes to claim otherwise.

Response by Maj Joan Marine made Feb 20 at 2023 6:08 PM

Maj Joan Marine — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 18:08:38 -0500

He's from Harvard what did you expect? I hear this BS from the "woke" left constantly. The SCOTUS has ruled that it's the Police are not there to protect the citizens of the US. I will defend myself and my own with a firearm. However, I have researched this topic numerous times and have found that when the populace is "required" to be armed (in small places in the US) crime drops rapidly! This shows that criminals are not stupid and only wish to hurt those who won't, "hurt them back". Schools and Churches are prime targets...ask yourself why...
I wish for all people in the USA to be armed if eligible (subtract those who are drug dependent and/or those with criminal background/psychosis) under current law. Those that want to murder or commit suicide will find a way to do harm to themselves or others.
The laws already on the books should be enforced (ya think!). Any law that doesn't prevent a criminal from obtaining a firearm is worthless to a lawfully armed Citizen.

Response by SGT Jimmy Moon made Mar 23 at 2023 6:26 AM

SGT Jimmy Moon — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 06:26:29 -0400

If I'm carrying, I've got a chance to stop the scumbags from doing harm to me or mine. Liberals will find a study and try to make it sound legit. They probably conducted it in prison.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2023 4:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:26:08 -0400

They didn't find anything because they did not want to

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2023 5:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 17:09:21 -0400

My first question is of course, which new study?
There is no evidence to support the hypothesis that a citizenry in possession of lawfully owned firearms necessarily increases the frequency of gun related violence. Anything emanating from the hollowed halls of East Coast Progressiveness needs to be viewed with mush more than a single grain of salt.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0119.htm

SCHOOL SECURITY IN ISRAEL

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made May 9 at 2023 9:37 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Tue, 09 May 2023 09:37:05 -0400

First of all, Second Amendment guarantee us the right to bare arm, but baring arm does not mean gun alone. Prior to musket, an armed individual is sword, axe, spear, knife, club, etc. In olden day Japan, there was a policy that only a service to a lord samurai can carry katana, but that did not solve their problems. There were more types of weapons created replacing the katana. There were even more types of weapons created in China.
In Uvalde, Texas, school shooting, there were bunch of law enforcement and lots of ‘good guy with guns’ and that still could not prevent children being shot in cold blood while they were on the other side of the door.
If a bystander has a gun during active shooting, that person could be mistaken for the shooter by the law enforcement and killed.
Don’t get me wrong, I love guns, but for me to have all kind of guns readily available for the masses is not a good thing. Great power comes great responsibility. Any one can bare arm, but not everyone should easily have a gun or rifle like AR-15. An individual should have to earn the right to own a rifle. Easier if it is a handgun.
So far AR-15 style rifle were used in mass-shooting, and a handgun in dispute. Can’t we all just go back to Kungfu or karate, or best a fist fight like the olden days in the Bronx?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2023 12:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 12:26:37 -0400

Recent studies have shown that guns are a tool for committing crimes. People have been killing each other for a long time. Even written in the Bible. Guns are the weapon of this century. They will become obsolete when a more destructive way of killing becomes available. Then we will have the same argument but with a different tool.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jun 30 at 2023 9:03 AM

1SG James Kelly — Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:03:30 -0400

Molon Labe

Response by SSgt William Blanshan made Jul 9 at 2023 7:17 AM

SSgt William Blanshan — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:17:32 -0400

Check where the "study" came from. I'm betting it wasn't from the federal government. All of their studies who different. The study discussed her was probably from some dumbass leftist commie think tank.

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Jul 10 at 2023 9:40 AM

CPL T.A. Nelson — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 09:40:47 -0400

Just because you are a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, it doesn't mean you are a denier of gun violence. Just because you want common sense gun laws, doesn't make you an anti-gun person. Every law should reflect the need, but too many people are screaming about their guns being taken. Anyone who is a responsible gun owner, knows that there are those who shouldn't have guns and that should be how to determine what guns are taken. Years of training and research went into the development/use of our weapons of war - even then we keep them secured. There should be a way to make sure that no one who is known to be volatile is able to aquire the gun legally, then all of the illegal guns would be easier to locate. I don't own a gun currently because I know that I would use it, but we're I to purchase one; it would be legal and it would be a hunting rifle or pistol. I know collectors that have M-16A1's and other former military issue weapons; none of them have ever allowed their weapons to even be touched by anyone unqualified...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2023 2:55 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 14:55:23 -0400

There are multiple problems with using statistics to draw a conclusion. When it comes to firearms (or conservative policies), the left tends to embrace the errors to reach a conclusion they agree with.
First and foremost, the left always emphasizes "firearm deaths/injuries". They ignore anything that isn't related to firearms.
1) In almost every country that firearms have been banned, crime/death/injuries did not go down. A different weapon or tool was substituted. In England and China, a knife is the preferred weapon. In Australia, the common method for killers is strangulation or beatings. Poisons have been used in Japan, explosives have been used in the mid-east.
2) The single event in the USA with the most firearms related injuries/deaths was eclipsed by the number of injuries/deaths the same year in France by the use of vehicles.
3) Almost 2/3rds of all firearms related deaths are from suicide. Most of the non-suicide related shootings/murders are crime related such as gangs, robberies.

Response by SPC Kent Laughlin made Jul 21 at 2023 1:47 PM

SPC Kent Laughlin — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:47:10 -0400

a fake study, just like the "fact checkers "over the past three years have been commiie rats saying just what the leftist puppet controllers want the children to hear .. that way the women and children are suitably frightened and when interviewed they same the same thing as the "new study" paid for by the commies ..

Response by SPC Kent Laughlin made Jul 21 at 2023 2:11 PM

SPC Kent Laughlin — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:11:34 -0400

The only people that are interested in removing weapons from the possession of law abiding, non criminal, non murdering US citizens are the politicians that are puppets of the communists that are controlling the US Oral office today. When corruption rules so does censorship and the effort to remove the tools of maintaining a free society. Anything anti gun that is published in the USA comes from the communists and those criminals in this country that want to control without dealing with push back that can negate their efforts. When you have time you might wish to see if there are serious efforts in our grade schools to frighten children into thinking that unarmed citizens are happy freedom loving carefree souls. Oh and the lies, try on the load of manure that came out of China after Tiamniman Squares.. easy to mask the murder of citizens when the suppression is complete. Remember that mao failed to make the adults into easy converts to communism that is when he struck on the idea of indoctrinating the children.

All that is required is patience to allow the indoctrination to fully envelope 3 or four successive years of graduates... Why in the USA the infection of communism has been ongoing since the 1950s. Stalin promised destruction from the inside... looks like we are going to deal with commies that look a lot different that they did in 1970, but, on the up side, we do not have to fly 13,000 miles one way to remove the threat, just drive downtown, they are everywhere ..

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Jul 23 at 2023 12:52 AM

SPC Robert Bobo — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 00:52:03 -0400

When ethics , integrity and facts take a back seat to a political agenda, MSM can't be trusted to deliver truth. Do your own research and don't become one of the willfully blind and intentionally ignorant oblivious to reality

Response by SrA Alan Purcell made Jul 27 at 2023 2:38 PM

SrA Alan Purcell — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:38:03 -0400

I take these "reports / studies" with a very small grain of salt. Anyone can and will manipulate to get their desired results then report only what they want to direct opinion. What I will put faith in is actual live reports from victims or credible witnesses. Take the defensive shooting in White Settlement church in 2022 where armed individuals stopped a shooting in progress and prevented a man with evil intent form inflicting more death and injury. Sadly 2 people died but so did the murderer. Good men with guns did work.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 14 at 2023 2:32 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 02:32:39 -0400

I've owned and used firearms from My pre teen years to the current time and have NEVER had any problem or unlawful act or even and accidental discharge from a firearm ever ! I also carried a firearm for over 40 years in both Military and civilian Law Enforcement duties. No Member of My family has ever had an issue either and my family has been here in Massachusetts from 1637 to the present. I do have one family member with mental health issues, He doesn't and can't have a firearm and He shouldn't and I don't have a problem with that. We do have laws that need enforcement including gun laws as they relate to criminals or people with actual mental health issues which is a pretty small percentage of a massive population. Having a failure by the courts and prosecutors to uphold those existing laws against people have mental health issues and criminal Histories is where the problem lays. Over and over again I have seen this government failure to enforce current laws and protect the rest of us !

I may point out also three of My relatives, marched with the Minutemen on April 19th 1775 to battle the regular British Troops at Old North Bridge, Concord, Massachusetts when they were attempting to seize guns, power and ammunition from the colonist, the government attempt did NOT succeed as citizens with guns stood up to them and prevented that. NEVER throughout History has allowing that sort of conduct from the Government ever had good results and was always about complete government control of ALL members of the population.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Sep 14 at 2023 8:08 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 08:08:58 -0400

Many years ago, a GA. county judge, issued an order, that all residents should own a weapon. This resulted in O crime. Criminals are not stupid.
Everyone living in Switzerland has a weapon, which results in the lowest crime rate in Europe.
You can't trust all studies..

Response by SPC Edward Abney made Sep 14 at 2023 10:32 PM

SPC Edward Abney — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 22:32:10 -0400

In the current political climate, and with the rapid deterioration of Society, my family is well armed, and know how to use lethal force. We hope it doesn't come to it, but, if it does, we are ready.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Sep 14 at 2023 10:59 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 22:59:07 -0400

From 1999, and over the subsequent 15 years, the correlation between gun manufacture and the gun homicide rate had a correlation of 75% (Pierson's "R" of .746). There were 15 data points. The P-number is less than 0.2% (that's two-tenths of one percent).

Oh, and the correlation is negative.

Data sources: Gun Manufacture - 2015 Report - Firearms Commerce in the United States Annual Statistical Update 2015

Homicide rates: CDC

Response by SMSgt Billy Gilliam made Sep 15 at 2023 2:33 PM

SMSgt Billy Gilliam — Fri, 15 Sep 2023 14:33:59 -0400

Question? Back in the 1800s when towns and cities made people leave their guns out side the city limit or they could not enter. no one screamed "This is against our 2nd amendment rights? L once was a NRA member, but stopped when they become gun manufactures mouthpiece. Even when owning 7 guns of various types, I was and am for strict gun control. Gun safety is a must before owning a gun. I have a scar on my neck from a bullet fired by a kid in plain sight of me.. My best friend was shot.in the belly by a kid 3 feet from him. These were kids taken by their fathers to learn how to hunt. Three and 4 year old killing other kids. Would NRA try to sell the public that your baby needs a gun to protect them from bad babies if it brought in more dollars?

Response by SMSgt Billy Gilliam made Sep 16 at 2023 3:37 PM

SMSgt Billy Gilliam — Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:37:01 -0400

People lie. proven facts don't. People make up facts or distort facts to support what hey want to believe.If you are looking for the truth or facts this is he wrong place. Because all you will get here is options. the old saying onions are like assholes everyone has one.

Response by PO1 Dale Smiley made Oct 20 at 2023 1:32 AM

PO1 Dale Smiley — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 01:32:42 -0400

I do not believe this new study! I think the liberal democrats want to disarm the law abiding Americans.

Response by SFC John Gilmore made Oct 24 at 2023 4:50 PM

SFC John Gilmore — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 16:50:54 -0400

I think that what is most often missed or glossed over in the entire debate concerning guns is (what I think) a very simple premise: The violence we see is not so much a "gun problem", as it is a "heart problem". If as a society we remove personal responsibility, if we remove the sanctity of life, if it's always someone else's fault and our moral compass just spins...then I think that removing guns would just mean we'd resort to using knives and blunt instruments to kill each other. Messier, but the result is the same. Anyway, just my opinion.

Response by PO3 James Polichak made Nov 5 at 2023 8:49 PM

PO3 James Polichak — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 20:49:39 -0500

No guns means no shootings, ergo, fewer guns means fewer shootings.
Unfortunately we live in a society with more guns than people.
Personally, the only time I even touched a real gun was in the Navy.
Cap pistols don't count, right.

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Nov 16 at 2023 9:36 AM

SFC Terry Bryant — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:36:01 -0500

I for one have NEVER said that MORE GUNS equals less crime. What I have always believed is that MORE GUNS in the hands of Law abiding citizens who use those guns for good equals less crime. That is the trap though. Saying the phrase, "more guns is less crime" is vague and inaccurate. Because more guns in the hands of criminals and thugs in no way decreases crime. Yet that is exactly what the anti-gun crowd see as gun control. Let's remove ALL guns but there is no way to remove the guns from criminals. Why? Because they do to live by the laws the rest of us live by. They have no respect for human life and decency so why in hell would they EVER live by the laws created by man in order to have a civilized society.

Response by Sgt Brett Holdeman made Nov 16 at 2023 9:44 AM

Sgt Brett Holdeman — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:44:41 -0500

It just makes sense that as more of any product is produced that more of other measures will follow suit. But as that is the case with the subject product, it also is sensible for the good citizens, in light of the increased desperation of many, to be armed in anticipation of more desperate acts. Fortunately the pro-abortion retaliation expected after Roe was overturned didn't occur, but what of the Israel-Hamas war's effect? As for me and my church, we will anticipate and be ready if evil comes knocking.

Response by TSgt Richard Ketterling made Nov 16 at 2023 8:51 PM

TSgt Richard Ketterling — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 20:51:09 -0500

Every sane person knows this is NOT true and just another BS study by left wing, progressive, America hating Harvard. The biggest hate filled, antisemite school in the US for sure.

Good guys with guns are always a good thing when bad guys have guns.

Response by SGT C Reed made Nov 16 at 2023 10:54 PM

SGT C Reed — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 22:54:57 -0500

Duh. This is a known fact. Something the NRA and others of their type spend a lot of $$$ trying to convince the small-minded otherwise.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Nov 17 at 2023 5:54 AM

SFC Wade Adams — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 05:54:32 -0500

When I retired from the Army, I also left the need for a weapon ( aka gun). For 23 years, the M-16 was part of my identity. I dawned the uniform and my M-16 was left behind also. With that being said, I have no need to own a gun. To me, owning one gives some false sense of bravado, a false masculinity. A gun doesn’t prevent crime, so why own one?

Response by TSgt William Cramer made Nov 17 at 2023 5:55 AM

TSgt William Cramer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 05:55:57 -0500

I am 61 yrs. old and fully support the second amendment. However, as a sportsman of many years, I say that assault style weapons (AR-15's, etc.) should only be used by the military and special police squads. That goes for semi-auto pistols as well. I have never needed more than 2 rounds to take game and as far as home protection, a pump shotgun suffices well. We should maintain a well trained militia, but those weapons of homeland security should be maintained at an armory in the event of the rare threat of an invasion. That is a program that should seriously be looked at to start. Many people of today owning assault weapons do not hunt game. They simply own them for the fun of it and no real skill level in shooting. They just spray lead. If a person (such as myself) is serious about shooting, then they are skilled at it and do not require a multi-round magazine to get the job done. There are too many in society that have warped minds from hours of playing their violent video games. Yes, the entertainment business is largely responsible, but that is another subject.

Response by LCpl Ferdinand Gonzalez made Nov 17 at 2023 7:37 AM

LCpl Ferdinand Gonzalez — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 07:37:35 -0500

Ask the people in Australia

Response by SPC James Davison made Nov 17 at 2023 8:03 AM

SPC James Davison — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 08:03:42 -0500

This study shows 2 things:
1) There is insufficient data to show conclusive results since too few citizens in America are allowed to carry a concealed weapon in public legally without a permit.
2) There is a dearth of those who can carry a weapon who actually do carry a weapon in public.

Response by PO3 Vernon Carpenter made Nov 17 at 2023 10:59 AM

PO3 Vernon Carpenter — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:59:11 -0500

It is not the number of guns, it is the individual that commits the crime, if not with a gun they just use another weapon, maybe a knife, maybe a vehicle, maybe a bomb, maybe fire.

Response by SP6 Richard Kellar made Nov 17 at 2023 2:44 PM

SP6 Richard Kellar — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 14:44:27 -0500

Ah yes, the new world that defies any and all logic. Folks that support this hyperbole are likely to supprot hamas also.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Nov 17 at 2023 4:55 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:55:55 -0500

...

Response by PO1 Mark Floyd made Nov 17 at 2023 7:26 PM

PO1 Mark Floyd — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 19:26:33 -0500

So? Does this change the 2nd Amendment or the clause "shall not be infringed."? Regardless I would like to see how they determined this. As is often quoted. “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

Response by MSG Jeremy Jiron made Nov 19 at 2023 10:13 AM

MSG Jeremy Jiron — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 10:13:37 -0500

Harvard, all these other colleges. Hamas supporters so of course we can’t trust them and we can’t trust this study.

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Nov 19 at 2023 3:34 PM

TSgt Robert Wayne — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 15:34:35 -0500

More guns do not mean less crime. But it can lessen the amount of casualties. If a shooter enters intending to shoot as many people as he can but is stopped right away by a person carrying then they won't be able to call it a mass shooting. Many are saved. Protect yourself, your family and others around you. Many of the mass shootings could have ended much sooner.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2023 6:18 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 18:18:52 -0500

The study was done by MSN end of discussion.

Response by CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness made Nov 19 at 2023 7:18 PM

CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 19:18:46 -0500

Some churches request those with CC licenses to self identify and bring their weapons to church services for protection of the congregation.

Response by SGT Carl Mervyn made Nov 19 at 2023 9:30 PM

SGT Carl Mervyn — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:30:13 -0500

So many questions about this “study “. Does this mean only honest citizens who have buying the guns? Is it felons, underaged youth, or is it the people who come into our great nation illegally who makes up the higher end of gun ownership. Is it people who collect guns and use them to show off. How many of those guns are owned by people who just hunt so they can feed their families. A “study “ like this must give all the information not just a random statement. The biggest question I have who is going to protect my family and most of all who is going to protect this great nation if we are invaded?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2023 11:10 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 23:10:55 -0500

That's about as logical as this headline:
Recent study finds that more spoons does not lead to less obesity.

But let's now talk about the actual reasons we are obese - instead let's pass more spoon controls!

Response by CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness made Nov 20 at 2023 1:28 AM

CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 01:28:42 -0500

A gun never committed a crime.

Response by PO2 Randy Cook made Nov 21 at 2023 4:18 PM

PO2 Randy Cook — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 16:18:31 -0500

I think that is a “BS” statement. Criminals are less likely to commit a crime if there are a couple of law abiding gun toting citizens around. There are also less likely to commit crimes when they know a premises is guarded. This is just common sense!

Response by CPO Scott Langhoff made Nov 22 at 2023 10:40 AM

CPO Scott Langhoff — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 10:40:25 -0500

Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.

I’ve collected guns for nearly 50 years, and they’ve NEVER killed anyone…

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.” - Mao Tse-Tung

Ain’t Democratic Communism Great?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2023 12:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 00:34:40 -0500

Oh my God. There is a S&W Nickel 586 with a 2.5 inch barrel. a number of S&W's N Frames and what looks like a Colt Python that looks like they have been destroyed. I swear these idiots doing gun buybacks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2023 12:40 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 00:40:03 -0500

I call BS but what do I know. I'm just a gun toting liberal Grandma. And yes I'm a caliber queen. I think the 41 mag is the perfect ammo for self defense and whatever use you may have for it.

Response by SPC Kent Laughlin made Nov 27 at 2023 2:15 PM

SPC Kent Laughlin — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 14:15:06 -0500

michael is a communist wannabe that researched leftist hysterics writers and made an idiot comment on a known truth... good history of a city armed is from Georgia there michael or is it micheal

Response by SPC Kent Laughlin made Nov 27 at 2023 2:17 PM

SPC Kent Laughlin — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 14:17:09 -0500

bogus study paid for and conducted by morons to facilitate moron goals ..

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Nov 28 at 2023 9:13 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 09:13:25 -0500

Any Time Our Government Says: "You Don't Need Guns"....
You NEED Guns...

Response by PO2 Randy Cook made Nov 28 at 2023 10:24 PM

PO2 Randy Cook — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 22:24:56 -0500

How about providing help to the mentally ill and keeping Criminals locked and tighten the gun checks to include local police and mental health checks. I think that would do a hell of a lot more than trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens! Hung Ho 2nd Amendment!

Response by CW3 Roy Veal made Dec 11 at 2023 12:18 PM

CW3 Roy Veal — Mon, 11 Dec 2023 12:18:23 -0500

You can make a study say whatever you want it to say. Guns are not the problem. The second amendment is about liberty. If you don't have the ability to protect yourself then you have no liberty. The second amendment was put forth by a government that had just got through fighting their own military for their freedom. The idea of the second amendment is that that military cannot put out a bigger army than the body of the people. Therefore if the citizery is armed then there will be no overthrow of the citizenery. The second amendment is not about hunting it's about protecting yourself in your community. Now gun crimes is a different story. We're supposed to loose hour right to keep in bare arms because of what insane people do with a gun. I don't see anybody wanting to get rid of cars because of drunk drivers.

Response by CW3 Roy Veal made Dec 11 at 2023 12:22 PM

CW3 Roy Veal — Mon, 11 Dec 2023 12:22:34 -0500

Find out who financed the study is the first step. When a buyer pays for a study, you know what that buyer wants. And if you want to get paid for the study, your results are what the buyer wants.

Compare gun deaths to the amount of deaths by bloodgeting and stabbing. More knives more clubs more crime

Response by PO2 Mike Keyes made Dec 12 at 2023 3:08 PM

PO2 Mike Keyes — Tue, 12 Dec 2023 15:08:19 -0500

Regardless of what ANY study finds or doesn't find, what Huckabee said was true. Given the fact that the shooter had a gun and the intent to use it, at least one more gun being on the scene would have been better, not worse.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2023 9:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 09:51:12 -0500

Two unrelated issues randomly put together. MHO

Response by SMSgt Billy Gilliam made Dec 14 at 2023 9:34 AM

SMSgt Billy Gilliam — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:34:29 -0500

After the Civil war there were guns every where. However most people in the Cities did not carry guns. To protect unarmed citizens, Towns started passing laws that you could not come into town armed. There were no mass killings until the NRA stropped promoting safety and training and became gun manufacturer mouth piece. Raised up in Oklahoma and Texas there was no mass shooting until you started hearing something similar to babies should have a gun to protect themselves from bad babies. Up until the 70,s no one worried about their second amendments rights. I belonged to the NRA until they became a propaganda machine. I have owned up to 7 guns at one most were given to me for safe keeping. Born and raised during the Great Depression a gun helped feed us. You don't need a military type weapon to hunt for food. let me inform you that the people who wrote the second amendment were the best educated of their time. But most of us are to dumb to understand what they wrote. Therefore we have let others tell us what they wrote and we dumb asses have made them rich and our friends and relatives killed. Being part of a crowd is a greater risk of being killed than mine during 26 years of service.

Response by SMSgt Billy Gilliam made Dec 14 at 2023 11:30 AM

SMSgt Billy Gilliam — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:30:49 -0500

We all are different. We get our briefs from or parents or those we associate with. Once we accepts those beliefs right or wrong. We get angry and maybe insulting if anyone dares to question those beliefs. Beliefs may be based on facts or no facts. But facts do not lie, But we will lie to ourselves and use made up facts to support our beliefs. In other words we love bullshit if it fits our beliefs. When I was in the military we never insulted another member because of their beliefs as I see rampart in all most all discussion on rally point.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Dec 14 at 2023 1:43 PM

SGT Gary Stemen — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 13:43:05 -0500

Kennesaw, Georgia seems to prove the case in total... that city has mandatory gun ownership for each home.... published data follows:
Crime statistics
In 2001, violent crime rates were about 60% below national and state rates. Property crime rates were from 46–56% below national and state rates. From 1999 to 2011, Kennesaw crime statistics reported that both property and violent crimes had decreased, though from 2003 to 2008 the trend in both violent and property crime rates slightly increased.[22] The increase in crime rate overall is attributed to the population growth rate of 37.41%. The population growth rate is much higher than the state average rate of 18.34% and is much higher than the national average rate of 9.71%.[23]

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made Dec 19 at 2023 1:52 PM

SGT Jim Wiseman — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 13:52:14 -0500

While I tried to follow the link so I don't look like an idiot, it says the page is no longer available. Did the study rely heavily on FBI stats? Most studies arguing for the lowering of crime rates cite the FBI stats on crime.
Often, stats on "defensive use" includes showing that a potential victim is armed. Just showing that a firearm is in the waistband, concealed, can change the minds of people unprepared to possibly get shot. Sometimes, a weapon must be drawn, but isn't fired. That still counts as a defensive use of a firearm. Anti-2A individuals and/or studies usually leave those stats out.
The headline of the post suggests, like with posts you can find on Reddit or Quora, that merely saying "there's studies out there... Google them." You did provide a link, willing to back up the argument. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, I can't access the article to see for myself. I'm always willing listen to the other side of the argument. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I pass on some piece of knowledge to someone on the other side, even if I only change the point-of-view (hopefully for the better) a little.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Dec 27 at 2023 9:57 AM

SGT Tim Tobin — Wed, 27 Dec 2023 09:57:04 -0500

This subject has become very partisan. MSN is s very left wing organization. If you sought out similar "studies' by the NRA I'm sure there would be different results.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jan 7 at 2024 9:57 AM

GySgt William Hardy — Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:57:57 -0500

Gunny, my thoughts are based on what I have learned over the years, especially in college studying for my Social Science degree . . . The problem is not guns, it is the mental health of the our society and miss direction of many people in trying to find an answer. Guns do not kill. People kill. The ability for people to buy guns may be too easy. The problem is where do we draw the line as not to step on the rights of the majority to buy guns. When looking as the problem, it is too easy for lawmakers to address gun control. That is the wrong direction. We need people control. We need two things to happen. Make the punishment fit the crime. Murder should have a mandatory death sentence. We have a system that is too liberal and allows people in excess of 10 years to appeal. Take for example a school shooting where there is absolutely no doubt that a person committed the crime. No appeal. Go straight to the nearest prison that executes and get put to death. We have numerous killings each year where there is no doubt. No life in prison, just the death penalty. Leave "involuntary" and accidental death as it is. People who use a weapon in the commission of a crime automatically get the death penalty if anyone is hurt or killed. The other thing is where a known unstable person is given guns by someone else. In a school shooting not too long ago, the mother had purchased the guns for her son. Those people should get either the same punishment or very harsh punishments for their part in the deaths of others.

Guns by themselves have nothing to do with crime. The crime is caused by people. Address the problem with people not the guns.

By the way, half of all murders are committed by repeat offenders. Put the murder to death and half of the murders disappear.

Other crimes such as rape and pedeophilia are serial crimes. They are outrageous crimes against other people. Studies have shown that when these people are caught, they have committed their crime over and over. Rarely is a rapist or pedeophile caught the first time. When they are released, they will commit their crime again. Several studies showed that even if they are castrated (by any means), they will still commit the crime. It is a hate crime and all they really want to do is to hurt someone. These people need to face a death penalty to stop the cycle. Forget if it will deter crime, focus on stopping the cycle of that single criminal.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Jan 11 at 2024 5:23 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:23:52 -0500

What study?

Response by SSG Elbert Thomas made Jan 21 at 2024 3:29 PM

SSG Elbert Thomas — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 15:29:49 -0500

delete please

Response by James Miller made Jan 25 at 2024 12:24 AM

James Miller — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:24:02 -0500

I don't believe it, statistics say otherwise.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2024 2:18 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Mar 2024 14:18:22 -0400

The problem isn't guns. It's the justice system & politicans. You have an entire party that doesn't want to prosecute criminals just to get votes. Shoplifting, assaults on LEOs, drugs, etc. Media outlets pushing their own agendas vs just reporting what goes on, taking sides. Yes there have always been opinions, but if your are a reporter or new broadcaster you should be telling the news as it's seen & let the ppl decide. That's how our republic is suppose to work.

No matter whether you liked trump or not. He did something that no president candidate ever did. He told the truth that we all know, said yes he used it or done. But guess what so did they & they have had the power to change but never did but complain about it. He called out the pandering for votes by politicans. And again no matter whether you like him or not. No politican in American history has been persecuted as Trump has been by political rivals. I mean a fake intelligence docket was created by a foreign national paid for by a rival political party & used by that party to waste billions of dollars on trying to get him out cause they don't like him.
The problems is society doesn't take charge anymore. The access to guns overall hasn't changed in decades. But crime has. What changed? Politics involved in the home, social justice, government interference. Criminals don't care about hiring arrested anymore. It's a badge of honor now. They welcome it in some cases. I love my firearms. I add to them when I can. I train as often as possible. That's what should be bring pushed. Training self defense. Harsher punishments. Less privileges in jail.