Reenlist vs getting out?

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:19:57 -0400

I've been contemplating whether I want to reenlist or get out. Obviously I very much would enjoy getting out due to being treated like an adult and having simple liberties again. Yet, I'm terrified of getting out because I don't know what I would do. I refuse to settle for some "pass the time" job like McD or something. I don't have a college degree and while I know what I want to do it requires a college degree. So I'm not sure really what to do. Has anybody else come across this issue as well? Im sure many of y'all have at many times contemplated getting out. What was your thought process and what did you consider? If I were to stay in then I would definitely be trying to go officer in either the Navy or Air Force but idk how well things go with the enlisted to officer programs. Any thoughts and advice on that matter? Please any advice would be helpful and very welcome.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 24 at 2015 9:24 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:24:19 -0400

It'a all in what you want ot do. If you enjoy what you are doing stay in. If you have a job lined up or going to school get out.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 9:33 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:33:25 -0400

Lord knows how many times I've thought about getting out with it being only my first term, but I've personally decided to give it one more just because I do want to go to school first, and I've had countless Chiefs and First Classes telling me to stay in for your twenty, it's worth it. My promotion helped with my motivation as well, and I've honestly considered commissioning. Still thinking about that one. You don't really get to know the Navy or Marine Corps in your first term, so I don't know if you're on your first or what have ya, but if you are I'd absolutely suggest you give it one more shot.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 9:35 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:35:07 -0400

Don't stay in the Corps because you're scared of getting out. Stay in because you enjoy what you do and to take care of your Marines. Also don't judge the Corps based on your first duty station.

Response by MSgt Steve Miller made Aug 24 at 2015 9:41 AM

MSgt Steve Miller — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:41:44 -0400

Suck it up and stay!!! You have already stated you do not have a degree. You should know that there are tons of guys and gals with Bachelors’ and Masters working for far less money than they are worth. Further, to be honest (unless you have a highly transferable skill set) something like McDonalds is on the horizon for you. I don’t mean to sound negative; I’m just being honest. Start and finish a degree program before you get out! Simper Fi!

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 24 at 2015 9:49 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:49:17 -0400

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member - I will share this with you. When I made the decision to get out, I didn't have a degree either. As a communications expert I knew I would at least have a chance in landing something and through hard work and listening to others, I crafted my resume to work with me and over the past few years have grown within the corporate IT environment.

While I'm not familiar with your background other than that you served in the Corps, I'm sure you are able to write a good working resume. Have you considered getting out and going to school? You have your GI Bill and can work towards your degree in Physical Therapy. The one thing a lot of people do is do what you are doing. Thinking you can step out of the uniform and right into your dream job. While it sometimes happens, you have a greater chance of getting out and finding a way to work towards your dream job.

If you are wanting someone to help review your resume and stuff, let me know, while I'm not an expert I have enough knowledge to give you good advice so you don't end up at McDonalds.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 9:55 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:55:37 -0400

What does your initial gut instinct say?

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Aug 24 at 2015 9:58 AM

MSgt Rob Weston — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:58:05 -0400

To stay or get out is choice only you can make. Weigh your options both positive and negative. Additionally if you choose to separate ensure you have a plan to execute well in advance. The last thing anyone wants to do is get out then say "now what". Lastly, talk with your transition assistance folks, they may help clear some of the waters for you

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Aug 24 at 2015 10:28 AM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:28:45 -0400

When I was 18 graduating high school I didn't know what I wanted to do. When I was at the crossroads you are at regarding reenlisting, I still didn't know what I wanted to do. After getting out and I landed a career job at 23, I still didn't know what I wanted to do. When I retired at 55, I finally realized while I still didn't know what I "wanted" to do, I did it very well. The fear, while well grounded and experienced by many, many who have traveled these roads before you, is not something that you should let rule your decisions. What to do is an individual decision. What works for this person or that may or may not work for you. What does your heart tell you? Whatever decision you make, commit to that decision 110% such as you did in becoming a Marine Cpl.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Aug 24 at 2015 10:52 AM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:52:28 -0400

When I reenlisted, I didn't have a set path for my future, but I wasn't afraid of staying in. I chose to reenlist to give myself time to figure out what I wanted to do when I got out. This gave me enough time to use Tuition Assistance and complete my Bachelor's Degree and start working on education towards the career I'm interested in. Now I have my GI Bill available for medical school, and was led to a career path by the atrocities I've experienced in military healthcare. Find your calling, and then make a plan.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 24 at 2015 10:52 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:52:59 -0400

You might want to consider getting your degree while you are in and checking out what kind of tuition assistance is available. You will need a degree to become an officer in the Air Force, I don't know about the other services.

It is not a good assumption that babysitting adults is only a Marine experience - there are levels in the civilian world that will make your military experience seem like a cake walk, and you will not have the medical or living expenses provided anywhere as inexpensively as you have now.

If you have a dream of becoming a PT you can start your education now and then move into the career field once you have your degree - in either the military or civilian career field.

Don't assume that getting out will solve your problems - it generally only makes your problems bite harder with no support and nobody giving a damn whether you succeed or not. The civilian world is a jungle that eats the slow or the weak for breakfast.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 24 at 2015 10:55 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:55:52 -0400

Don't make fear based life choices. If you still want to be a Marine because you like it stay in. If you don't, get out and go to school. Make sure to study the post 9-11. Get paid to train for your next career!

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Aug 24 at 2015 11:04 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:04:09 -0400

It is hard to find civilian employment that matches military benefits, if you don't have anything plan I would strongly suggest that at least stay in the military until something promising is waiting for you on the outside. I don't know if you are married with children, if so think about your family security we all have to sacrifice something to make sure our families is secured. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well, keep doing your homework before you make your final decision.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 11:10 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:10:44 -0400

The military is a good place to work and get a degree. What does it take? Hard work and dedication. Also patience. I saw too many get out to finish college and never do so.

For now I would say build yourself a plan to accomplish your degree and when that is done look at the situation again.

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Aug 24 at 2015 11:15 AM

Sgt Jay Jones — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:15:10 -0400

I joined the Marine in 1969. In 1971, after a tour in Vietnam I was a Sergeant. The Vietnam war was drawing down and the Marine Corps was transitioning to a peace time Corps. End result I was passed over for promotion to Staff Sergeant. I was fortunate that I fell into a career field that was rewarding and satisfying, but that doesn't happen to every.
Even now I question whether or not I should have gotten out. I don't think I would have a weight problem for 30 years of I would have stayed in. Who knows I might have even received a commission if I would have stayed in. I was offered a transfer to the U.S. Coast Guard with a commission, but I could not phantom not being a Marine!

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 24 at 2015 11:28 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:28:57 -0400

Getting out from overseas is probably not a great idea. It's really hard to get settled and start school or work when you're away like that. I'd at least extend to rotate back to CONUS first.

You can use your GI Bill benefits to go to college. In addition, there are VA Work Study programs available so you can do some VA related work, and get paid and get some college general credit at the same time. This helps you out as well. Or, conversely, if your work schedule allows it, pursue some of the courses for the degree you want while you're still in...

Talk to your career counselor about commissioning programs. The Marine Corps has a pretty good one...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 11:35 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:35:41 -0400

I would like to clarify that part of me staying in is that I'd like to move branches and go enlisted to officer. I simply don't have the knowledge on who to talk to about switching branches and who to talk to in regards to going from enlisted in one branch to officer on another through an enlisted-commissioned officer program

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 12:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:40:08 -0400

I read a couple of other posts and it is the same recommendations that we give our Soldiers. If this is in fact your first duty station do not judge your time there as BEING the Corps (Army, Navy, Air Force). On to the next thought, how long have you been in? Are you getting out just because of....what?
Personally here is what I tell my Soldiers when they are thinking about this decision (besides the first point), look at what the military offers you. You have no degree, HOWEVER there are two COAs for that. Use your GI Bill and get that, because honestly you need it so that you are not going to end up working in a "past the time" job. Your other COA would be that if you re-enlist, you NEED to use the education benefits while you are in (Tuition Assistance) and GET that degree. I also agree with what SGT Morgan said, don't stay just because you are afraid of the outside. Make sure that you are getting from the service what you give. USE the benefits that are available to ENSURE that you are ready for that transition. USE your time wisely though if you re-up. All that time you have off after work you need to INVEST in school and getting prepared. There is no excuse for leaving without some kind of education (AA or Bachelors). You just have to invest that time and energy.
I wish you the best of luck in your decision, look at all possible sides because all too often people rush out and then they want back in. Right now, is not the time to try to get back in if you are P.S.
Just my .02 on it.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 1:32 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:32:40 -0400

While in Vietnam, I heard that Apollo 11 had landed on the Moon. At the time, I thought that working on the Space Program would be a good career. I very much like being a Marine, but my last two years were spent at 29 Palms. There were serious problems with drugs at the time, and I though the Marine Corps was not doing enough to solve the problems. After I left, the Marine Corps did fix the drug problems. After working civilian jobs, I found out that the Marine Corps was not as messed up as I had believed. I had a firm goal in mind when I separated from the Marine Corps. I would obtain a degree and then work for the Space Program. I found a high paying chemical plant operator job while I obtained my degree. Five and a half years later, I had my degree, and started working on the Space Shuttle program. I stayed with that program for 33 years, until one month after the last Space Shuttle flight. Before you leave the Marine Corps, have a solid plan in place. If you need a degree for your desired job, what job will supplement your G.I. Bill while you obtain that degree? Decide what you want to do, and then research that career field as to duties, required skills, education, etc. Plan, Plan, and more Planning, will produce better results. Best wishes on making a well informed decision.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 24 at 2015 1:51 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:51:58 -0400

The economy sucks. I have a masters and keep losing out to people with a PhD for jobs that require a bachelors. Then again, I live in Tucson and you have to be bilingual to get a job flipping burgers. I initially joined for 4 years as a grunt and was overseas for my first tour as well. That can be rough for a lot of people. I've also seen a lot of unhappy former Marines making the transition into the Army, the ones that make it bring a lot to the table. OCS is going to require 90 semester credit hours, but since you are young there are programs like Green to Gold, or you could just go to ROTC. I'd caution you about staying in if you are unhappy/just nervous about getting out since that might make you resent your decision, BUT you really have to at least have a solid plan/back-up plan/alternate plan/supplementary plan/and money in your savings. There is also reclassifying into some other job. I went thru the gambit of combat arms and ended up in aviation. My aircraft meant that I would always be in the air cav and that was a perfect fit for me given all my other jobs. If you like helicopters, I'd recommend the Army and become a 15R (Apache repairer) since they have just doubled up on their mission. They took over the cavalry mission (don't get me started on that nightmare) and that means a lot of room for progression and upward mobility. The youngest Sergeants Major in aviation are essentially all Apache crew dawgs. Time for some serious praying for guidance. Regards, Uncle Mark.

Response by PFC Al Sethre made Aug 24 at 2015 3:11 PM

PFC Al Sethre — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:11:50 -0400

You can always get out and get into a college that offers Army/AF ROTC. Experience the college life while serving, and earn your bars right after you graduate.

Response by PO1 Cameron Rhyne made Aug 24 at 2015 6:48 PM

PO1 Cameron Rhyne — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:48:13 -0400

It's up to you to decide what it is you want to do with your life. If you don't like being in the military, hate coming to work in the morning, resent missed birthdays and time with your family, this might be a sign you need to move on and do something else. However, you also need to take steps to decide what you want to do and prepare for some amount of unemployment. Start building savings now if you decide you want to get out. Have enough money to survive for 3 months at the very least with no income and take advantage of EVERYTHING the military offers you during transition. They will move you where you want to go one last time and there's nothing wrong with putting your name out there for employment months before you get out.

I left after nine years because I'd done what I wanted to do and I didn't really see any point in staying in any longer. I also wanted to come home to my wife every night, not be gone for 9 months of the year.

Veterans can get hired, it just depends what you want to do, where you want to work, what skills you have and how you market yourself.

Just remember, unlike a civilian job, you only have a few windows to get out on your own terms and if you're going to get out, you need to decide one way or another, commit to that decision and do what you need to make it work.

But it's your life and nobody else can make that decision for you.

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Aug 24 at 2015 8:53 PM

CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:53:56 -0400

I got out after six years enlisted. I did not have a degree, job, or any kind of a plan. This was in 1984 and the economy was pretty much like it is now. Due to the lack of employment opportunities, I took whatever work I could. While working as a janitor, I realized the only way I was going to make it was to get an education. I began going to school at a community college. It took me a long time, but it paid off! You have to decide what you want to do, then you have to be willing to pay the price of your decision. Good luck whatever you decide!

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Aug 24 at 2015 10:06 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:06:42 -0400

I was not the best, but a pretty good Marine and someone that the Prior Service Recruitment wanted to keep. But they kinda blew it. First they try to dangle the rank of Sergeant in front of you, as if I didn't already have that cutting score and they were offering something I hadn't already earned. Then it just seemed that the various types of re-up bonuses that were being offered to folks coming upon the same situation just a few weeks before me were getting fatter offers with less excitement in their SRBs than mine.

That said, I do not believe in the FEAR of getting out. In fact I have often accused some for only staying in because of that fear. Being a contributor in society means not being part of the Nanny State, which includes not only the Welfare Recipients who do not work, but also those who the Government hands jobs to only out of "they want them to NEED the government", and they often do...been to a DMV lately? Bureaucracy is not an accident...some folks aren't even expected to be very efficient. If you do not internally believe you can do much better, then I question the real value of you wearing the Uniform. (well...anybody, not you specifically). I am not exactly thrilled about the idea that some only serve for personal gain, college cash, VA Healthcare, etc...who couldn't care less about Our Flag, Our Nation, Our Freedom, and/or all of the other things that fall under "The Cause".

Scary to me that a Marine Corporal struggles with that one. No disrespect intended here, but either Man the eph Up, or Go the eph Home.

Response by Sgt Milt Truong made Aug 24 at 2015 11:38 PM

Sgt Milt Truong — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 23:38:36 -0400

I'd stay in if you don't have a set career planned out in the civilian world. Even people with degrees now a days over here is having a hard time finding jobs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 12:07 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 00:07:51 -0400

You don't always appreciate what you have until you lose it. Coming from a guy that relatively recently left the active duty side of the Army there's a lot of things I look back on and miss. The camaraderie and always knowing that someone is looking out for you. Having a sense of purpose, and surrounded by peers filled with that same drive and determination as you. Simple things like free medical, dental, food, rent, utilities, etc. A stable paycheck. The military provides so much, and for so many they don't realize what's holding them up until it disappears and they come crashing down. All I can say is that if you want out then more power to you, just be damned sure you have a fool proof plan ready to execute the moment you hit your ETS. If you don't then you're in for a rough time.

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Aug 25 at 2015 7:44 AM

MSgt Darren VanDerwilt — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 07:44:27 -0400

I tell every military person actively serving to stick it out. Here's why: I'm retired Air Force, didn't have a bad time for the most part. Sometimes it could suck; family separation, foreign shitholes, etc. But the experience I gained is mountains above what civilians receive. The benefits; G.I Bill, medical, and retirement, usually exceed what most civilian jobs can offer. Every prior service individual I work with is far more grounded, more reliable, and has a greater work ethic. There's other options also. You could see what the other services have to offer.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 9:36 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 09:36:49 -0400

If you have a degree, certifications or a top secret SCI security clearance... then I would say yes...get out now. Otherwise the military provides a steady paycheck as well as decent benefits. You can always do another hitch and work on your resume so when you do get out you are prepared.

Response by PO2 Randy Harris made Aug 25 at 2015 12:05 PM

PO2 Randy Harris — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:05:01 -0400

i counted down the days to getting out and have enjoyed most of my life since but have struggled and not a days go by that i don't wish i had stayed in for the retirement

Response by SrA Steven Cleek made Aug 25 at 2015 12:41 PM

SrA Steven Cleek — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:41:17 -0400

The decision to stay or to punch out is very personal. It can be dictated by many factors. However, fear should not me one of them. The simple liberties that you speak of come at a high price. Reentigrating to civilian life can be a difficult thing to over come. Things in a civilian job are not structured like you are used to and a college education doesn't mean that you will get a great job or even one in your field of study. If you are comfortable where your at in your life stay there for now start working on your education before you leave. College in an environment such as yours is hard but now is much easier with the introduction of accredited online programs. I waited to get my college education till I left the military and used my GI Bill while working 50 hours a week it is not easy. But if you wanted easy you would not have chosen a miliary lifestyle. Leaving was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. Looking back I wouldn't have it any other way but those were for personal reasons. I do not enjoy my work it is not even in my field of study but it pays the bills and affords some down time. It's not easy out here but the a the breaks. I would offer one peace of advice, set yourself up for success before you leave. Do not walk blindly into the night.

Response by Sgt Bryon Tulee made Aug 25 at 2015 12:43 PM

Sgt Bryon Tulee — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:43:25 -0400

I had a similar issue after my enlistment. I've regretted it ever since. Feeling 'Short' was great. I felt I had accomplished a major milestone and was ready to move on in life. But I didn't have an exit plan in 1998. Needless to say when I got home... After a couple months my good intentions were gone.
Ended up living check to check only to pay rent, eat and hangout.
My advice. Reassess your long term goals. Select a MOS that fits your new career path and re-enlist. Find an online degree program and get your education in the barracks during your next 4 years.
Pay yourself first! That way if and when you do decide to get out. You'll have 8 yrs experience and a college degree.

Good Luck

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 25 at 2015 1:00 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:00:33 -0400

Tough choice and in the end you have to make that choice that will best suit your future.
Staying in the Marines or going to another branch is something that you have to do what is best for your career also, choosing a career enhancing school or request to change your MOS, depends on your initial ASVAB scores if I remember correctly, look for some duty station that will also enhance your career.
Getting out and going back to college using your Post 9/11 GI bill is going to be a good step for your future. Looking at a field that has career growth and decent pay, remember in the civilian sector pay is based on locality so you can see big differences between say Butte, MT and San Francisco, CA.
In the end you have to decide what is best for your future based on advice you get from family, friends, unit members and since your asking here Rally Point members.
Regardless of your choice I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

Response by MSG Jan Glock made Aug 25 at 2015 1:13 PM

MSG Jan Glock — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:13:10 -0400

DOL Study Finds Substantially Higher Earnings for those Who Participate in Registered Apprenticeship –Up to $240,037 over Lifetime
Posted by Alexander Jordan - On August 07, 2012 (EST)
Individuals who complete a Registered Apprenticeship program will earn substantially higher wages over their lifetime according to a study released today by the U.S. Department of Labor. The study, An Effectiveness Assessment and Cost-Benefit Analysis of Registered Apprenticeship in 10 States, found that over a career of 36 years, participants who completed the Registered Apprenticeship program had average earnings gains of nearly a quarter million dollars ($240,037, increasing to $301,533 with employer benefits added) compared to nonparticipants. After accounting for costs such as taxes, the net benefits for those who complete a Registered Apprenticeship program are $233,828. Even when individuals who participated in but did not complete Registered Apprenticeship are added to the analysis, the estimated average earnings gains for all participants is still an impressive $98,718 ($123,906 with employer benefits) over their careers. Taking into account various costs the estimated net benefits for all RA participants are $96,911.

Registered Apprenticeship is a career-training program that offers structured on-the-job training combined with related technical instruction tailored to industry needs. The program, created in 1937, seeks to produce well-trained workers whose skills are in high demand. In 2011, almost 400,000 people across the nation were enrolled in the program. Registered Apprenticeship is administered by the Employment and Training Administration’s Office of Apprenticeship within the U.S. Department of Labor, in conjunction with State Apprenticeship Agencies. Apprenticeship programs range from one to six years and are offered in approximately 1,000 occupations, including the traditional skilled trades such as electrician, plumber, and carpenter, as well as occupations including wind turbine technician, health informatician and geothermal & well-drilling operator. For apprentices, RA provides on-the-job training, related technical instruction, incremental wage increases as skills are attained, and, upon completion, nationally recognized certification in the chosen career area. RA programs are delivered by sponsors—employers, employer associations, and labor management organizations. Sponsors cover the costs of training, wages paid to apprentices, costs of managing the program, and costs associated with time spent by senior employees to mentor and train apprentices.

This study, led by principle investigator Debbie Reed of Mathematica Policy Research, Inc., assesses the effectiveness of Registered Apprenticeship and performs a cost-benefit analysis of the program. The report measures the net effects of apprenticeship for participants as well as the social costs and benefits of Registered Apprenticeship across a variety of state settings. It also examines the barriers that women face in Registered Apprenticeship and the best practices for promoting their success. In addition, the report explores whether federal and state administered RA programs have patterns of differences in the programs themselves and their outcomes.

The study focused on 10 states selected to vary in program features and labor market characteristics, including program size, region, the degree of union representation in the state, administrative type (federal or state), and the degree to which RA is concentrated in a few occupations. The states are Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Texas.

Key Research Findings
• RA participants had substantially higher earnings than did nonparticipants. Over their career of 36 years, participants who completed the RA program had average earnings of nearly a quarter million dollars ($240,037, increasing to $301,533 with employer benefits added). After accounting for costs, the net benefits for RA completers are $233,828. Even when non-completers are added to the analysis, the estimated average earning gains for all participants is still an impressive $98,718 ($123,906 with employer benefits) over their careers. Taking into account various costs such as taxes, apprentices pay on earnings gains, the estimated net benefits for RA participants are $96,911.
• The social benefits of the RA program appear to be much larger than the social costs. Over the career of an apprentice, the estimated social benefits of RA exceed the social costs by more than $49,000.
• The report finds that female apprentices expressed positive views of RA but recommends some changes to promote women’s success. The data demonstrates that women participate in RA at lower rates than men and are concentrated in social service occupations (mainly child care and health care). In the 2010 cohort, women made up only 9 percent of new apprentices. Women are much less likely than men to enroll in the traditional skilled trades and, when they do, they are less likely than men to complete RA. The women interviewed see their participation in RA as a pathway to career advancement and higher pay. Those interviewed suggested strategies to enhance the success of women in RA: undertaking targeted outreach campaigns, building women’s basic skills, helping women develop accurate expectations about particular occupations, adequate child care, assisting employers to enforce policies to combat harassment at male-dominated worksites, and peer groups for support and encouragement.
• RA programs are largely similar in states federally administered by the OA states and SAA states. Modest differences were found between OA and SAA states in terms of the demographics, occupational distribution, completion rates, and earnings gains of apprentices. The most notable difference was that SAA states are more easily able to create partnerships with the workforce system and educational institutions because they are part of the same state government.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 1:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:13:41 -0400

I all to often hear civilians with no military service tell me how much they wished they would have taken my route. In 9 years i will retire at the age of 41, and they are jealous of that.

I wouldn't stay in the Corps if i were you and I was career minded. I would move over to the AF and become a PJ or CCT, or I would join the Army and go Ranger or SF. There are too few opportunities in the Corps. All of the Spec OPS money is pushed to either the Amry or Navy.

Response by MSG Jan Glock made Aug 25 at 2015 1:15 PM

MSG Jan Glock — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:15:23 -0400

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Response by SGT Allison Churchill made Aug 25 at 2015 1:15 PM

SGT Allison Churchill — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:15:44 -0400

The G.I. Bill in all of its forms was specifically created to give service members like you a good education when they left the service. Not having a bachelor's right now is a pretty crazy reason to put off doing what you want to do when the government will give you money to get one, and most schools will chip in some money, too.

If you're considering taking the leap to officer, then I will say that a lot of people hold officers with enlisted experience in high regard.

It sounds like you need to have a long talk with your retention NCO and do a lot of research. Is there a specific school you want to attend, or even just a city you'd like to move to? It wouldn't hurt to see what programs are available in that area--then even if you do return to the military as an officer, you'll have some connections and can stay updated on what's going on.

Good luck!

Response by PO1 Joseph Gardner made Aug 25 at 2015 1:25 PM

PO1 Joseph Gardner — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:25:58 -0400

Have You ever considered a job with the government as a crab.There are many Dept.you can apply for.Interior (national park ranger),Postal service (letter carrier) Defense.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 1:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:28:42 -0400

Get out. Start planning now. If the military is just your "wasting time" job, you're taking up space that someone hungrier than you could be earning. If you think there is some magical freedom that comes from getting out, or that you'll suddenly be treated like an adult...remember that more than half the work force at entry level jobs are held by people who can't be bothered to show up to work consistently, and that you can always be jerked around by a boss because you need him to pay you. Most states have laws that let your employer fire you at any point, no questions asked.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 1:36 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:36:20 -0400

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member Everything is about preparation and what is best for you as an individual, assuming you don't have a family. If you are comfortable with getting out and knowing where you want to go, you will get there with the right preparation. I don't know how much longer you have to decide but if you are separating, start preparing as early as possible.

I just separated from AD due to HYT and with only four months notice, it was a more difficult transition in finding a job. Even if it is just a pass the time job while you are in college, you would likely need one just to have the little bit of extra cash.

Also, take advantage of your benefits. The money you can receive, the medical, the general help is all afforded to you and it would behoove you to receive as much as you can to get the new chapter in your life started. I wish you the best of luck on whatever you decide.

Response by Sgt Tom Vaughn made Aug 25 at 2015 1:47 PM

Sgt Tom Vaughn — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:47:27 -0400

That's a tuff one , my son and his 3 closest friends are all lifers. , my son gets. Out with 20 years a Marine in 1 1/2 years
He's fed up with the changes he has seen ,
One is stationed in Okie , he just teen listed again , I'm thinking for a higher rank at retirement
If you leave then decide to go back , you can , but more then likely drop 1 or 2 grades
Not a lot of good paying jobs outside , unless you have a 4tear degree or maybe willing to work 50 to 60 hours driving truck for s Union freight company , but there are expenses for that job, like getting a CDL , medical certification , TSA background checks
It's a tough decision for sure .
And add to that who knows if the military pension will even be funded by the time you leave service
I sometimes think I would like to be in my 20's again ! Then I step back and say
" oh hell no". Not with the complete lack of faith in the country's leaders and the current changes in this world .
I feel for all the young people who never got to know or learn about this country not have the knowledge of the past generations and the understanding as to what this country was in 1940's throughly the 1980's.
Good luck son,
I pray all will work out for the best
There are a bunch of good women and men on this site who can help , maybe even help with a job
Try looking into my former employer
ABF freight lines , they try to train and employ veterans as much as they can

Response by SSgt Steven Denison made Aug 25 at 2015 2:18 PM

SSgt Steven Denison — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:18:42 -0400

Weigh you options carefully. First think about what skills you have learned in the military and take them with you. Take advantage of the free training that you received while in the military. I was a Personnel Specialist while active duty and I learned computer skills, administrative skills and how to conduct training. I got out of the military and have been able to take what I learned into a career. I have been training computer software for several years now and I have been able to climb the ladder of success. I recently was laid off for the first time in my career and within 39 days I was back to work at a different company. I have been able to gain employment with a HIGH 5 figure salary with great medical, dental benefits, bonuses, vacation time and of course a 401K option as well. I say go for it and do not sell yourself short. You probably have many skills that will take you into the civilian sector with relative ease. You have a whole world waiting on you.

Response by SFC Mahlon Paul Manson made Aug 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

SFC Mahlon Paul Manson — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:32:57 -0400

Cpl, Try the trades, usually at the first of the year they except apprentices and being a vet counts

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Aug 25 at 2015 2:41 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:41:13 -0400

Stay in...or at least stay reserves/national guard

Response by A1C William Puckett made Aug 25 at 2015 2:51 PM

A1C William Puckett — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:51:31 -0400

if you reenlist it's a sure thing paycheck. Honestly gone are the days of veterans preference. Nobody cares. This is a travesty honestly. you can go to school online and get your degree. the military will pay for 75% of your tuition.

Response by TSgt Ryan Lee made Aug 25 at 2015 3:15 PM

TSgt Ryan Lee — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:15:25 -0400

There has been many people in your shoes. The questions you need to ask yourself, is this going to be a career for you if you re-enlist? Your first duty station and being young in the ranks is always frustrating. When you become an NCO, I saw things get a lot better as far as treatments. If you do not know what you want to do if you get out, stay in, it is a guaranteed paycheck as long as you do your best. Go to school while tuition is paid for. If you separate, you have your GI Bill that will pay you to go to school but it isn't much money. But you better have a plan or you will not make it. Your healthcare will be really high, hundreds of dollars per month compared to TRICARE. If you do not have any money saved and are going to separate, that can spell disaster quickly. The best thing to do is to speak to a career consultant and weigh your options. The best thing I always told my troops, embrace the suck for awhile, it is all worth it in the end.

Response by SSgt Robert Clark made Aug 25 at 2015 3:16 PM

SSgt Robert Clark — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:16:31 -0400

Ultimately, the decision is yours and must be made after much soul searching. That being said I can share my experience. I served almost 11 years and for whatever reason lost sight of the only place I have ever felt like I belonged. In 1992 I took the buy out thinking I would be starting a new life as a civilian, raising a family and all would be good. I have been miserable almost the entire time I left the military and desperately wish I could go back in. 22 years 7 months 24 days ago I made the biggest mistake of my life....don't do the same.
I have read people complaining about how the military has become to civilianized, to politically correct and to much crap you have to deal with instead of doing the job. If you are leaving because the military is to civilianized, what on earth do you think the civilian world will be like. I know I'm not there living it now, but I do know no matter how bad one thinks the military life is the civilian life is far worse. It's not as dangerous I know. But there is no team work, there is no lifting each other so the collective whole is a stronger unit. There are few, if any, leaders but crap loads of managers. The only thing that matters is looking good so share holders are happy or the boss is happy so bigger bonuses are given. Coworkers are nothing but whiny sniveling little cry babies who need their noses wiped.
As far as being a physical therapist, you will need a PhD for that. Not sure about the Navy, but I do know the AF has a career filed called physical therapist assistant. It's not the same, I know, but it's a foot in the door. I also know the AF offers outstanding education benefits while on active duty. All I can advise is talk to a Navy and Air Force recruiter and explain what you are wanting to do. They will be able to give you the answers you need. Look up this url, it explains the AF road for physical therapy - http://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/physical-medicine-specialist/

Response by PO1 James McCollum made Aug 25 at 2015 3:43 PM

PO1 James McCollum — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:43:19 -0400

CPL, from your post can I make an assumption that you are not married and do not have any children. It sounds like you are finishing your first enlistment and you do not say what your specialty is in the Corps. All that being said, if you do not have a job that is marketable in the civilian world I would suggest staying in and going to college to make yourself more marketable. When I enlisted I made sure that I had a job that if I decided to get out I could find a good job. I was an Advanced Radiologic Technologist in the Navy. Let me suggest do some research. Talk with Human Resources people and talk with the VA about job training opportunities before you get out. Best Wishes as you go forward. I stayed twenty and never regret a moment. I would do it all over again.

Response by Lt Col Richard Colarco made Aug 25 at 2015 3:59 PM

Lt Col Richard Colarco — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:59:32 -0400

" I don't have a college degree and while I know what I want to do it requires a college degree."

Hmmmm. Then go out and get the degree. There are lots of programs available, including on-line. It's hard, but lots of people have done it.

Response by SFC Jon Vandeyacht made Aug 25 at 2015 4:40 PM

SFC Jon Vandeyacht — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:40:37 -0400

1. Dont get iut. Dont leave untill they are tearing out the carpet of service from under you while your holding on and kicking and screaming....you will NEVER have it as good as you really do now. Trust men no matter how much suck you deal with...that job you have, that way of life, your buddies, your friends, your 'other' family, your entire way of life..will be gone. Stay till they force you out.
2. DO NOT leave until you have your degree, any degree, and some skills that are in demand AND a sure fire plan. This plan MUST include what you are going to do with only 1000 -1500 per month. There is NO BAH, BAS, jump pay, language propay or any of that untaxible suppliment AND then you are federally mandated to have health insurance too else pay fine with your taxes. Stay till 20 and then tricare..standard or if your lucky ... prime will always be availabe and meets the requirement.
3. When you put together your resume, you MUST put them together per job. NO BLANKET reaumes anymore...ever. all your military crap on a resume will hurt you. Civs DONT care. All of these jobs for military that lowes, home depot, petsmart ect advertise .. are retail (sucks ass work) and doesnt pay but 10 per hour at most on average as starting pay. 10x40hours=400grossweekx4wweks=1600month gross-20%taxes and social security=320 taken from month gross = 1280 per month net. Now pay for rent, utilities, car, gas, food, clothing, and you have negative funds remaining and still need to provide health insurance. Now you need 1.5 jobs plus spouse will need to work full time and you have a kid? That sucks, now add on babysitter or daycare. If not, you probably wont anytime soon. Planning on school after service? Great, post 911 will net you about 1000 per month while attending. Now you have classes, comuting, and homework but yet still need health insurance and more $$$ so spouse still needs to work. Have kids? Chances are against you ever doing more than 1 semester. MOST vets with children can never start school, too much stress for homework when your worried about how to pay bills and still need time for family. Im sorry, that is the most common thing that happens.
As for resume, only put what is needed to show why you are best person for the job. All the military stuff, decorations, comedations, piddly classes dont get you much, some classes are considered a liability. Never mention combat life saver...ever!
Limit military references to no more than 3 or 4 lines. I worked for... my mil experience and class on..... makes me the best because i have 9 years experience doing exactly what you require for this position of 'waiting around and drinking coffee'...
Being a vet is not all that great and there are 100 vets for each posted 'awesome' job and 99 vets for each, 'great' job and 92 for each, 'good' job and 900 for anyjob that gives preference to vets. Many vet friendly employers appreciate the attention to detail vets have, expect it from vets much more so than twiddly bob, who, didnt serve and is getting paid the same.
3. There are some vets that get great jobs, government jobs, at any level...county and up, are the best bet for all of us. It is the closest to what we know and hard to get fired as long as you dont offend anyone, say anything stupid, racist, sexist, political or percieved by anyone as being so. Gov jobs are far fewer and you must go through the process unles your getting va dissability. .. this takes time for a comp claim to be approved. No less than 6 months for planning purposes. Then, if, you get 30% or better, you might qualify for direct appointment as long as said disability isnt percieved as getting in the way. Legally they cant .. not, hire you for the disability BUT, they will find a 'better' qualified candidate, one who isnt broken. Vet preference helps but disabled vet preference doesnt help for most 90% or better applicant veterans. Sad but true. Those awesome jobs out there are very rare and ynless you have a conditional offer for employment signed and in your hands, you have no awesome job waiting for you.
4. Realize. . You love what you do, you love the corps, semper fi and all that other junk...... picture yourself never serving again and i bet you will have a very hard time doing so. You really do love what your doing.
5. Lastly, people like me, veteran service officers, are needed to help vets with the VA. It is a beast to get what your owed. Nothing happens quickly except recieving medical bills. We will help you but VA doenst care about your family members and will never look after their best interests.

I might come across as negative and it isnt all doom and gloom. Many vets love post military life. You MUST be ready, if anything..mentally, before you seperate. If there is any doubt, stay in for another term and then reevaluate as to IF you are ready. Please please please dont get out if your in doubt or just tired of stupidity or "always in the field training". I would hate to be helping another depressed vet get counselling because you ..thiught.. the grass is greener off post......
You have my utmost respect. If you have any VA related questions, this old dog army guy will help you. But dont make a dumb decision. Make a prepared and ready decision.
Other Veterans....please dont blast me if your post-military experience has been awesome. There are more of us wishing to still be in, because civilian life sucks when compared to the best time in our lives and i am not afraid to express the dark realities....just read 80÷ of the ..in need of help, or WTF postings on RP.

Response by PO1 Bronson Kennedy made Aug 25 at 2015 6:27 PM

PO1 Bronson Kennedy — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:27:03 -0400

Stay! Make a career out of it if you can. 20 years will go by in a flash and if you lined yourself up right, networked along the way, and invested in yourself you can do very very well after the military. Listen, I retired as an E6 and that's nothing to brag about but I did network EXTREMELY well and invested in myself. Right after retiring I started my second career as a GS12 government employee in San Diego to go along with a retirement check, 70% disability rating, a great stock portfolio, and a spouse with a six figure salary; not to mention the dirt cheap insurance and free college tuition for my kids. I can't tell you how many senior enlisted service members and officers nearing retirement that are terrified of the making the transition to civilian life because they were consumed by the military, and that paycheck, and didn't look a little further down the road. Stay in and invest in you!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 6:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:38:42 -0400

Stay in. Where else can you do 20 years ND not worry about your paycheck? And get a pension?

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 25 at 2015 7:28 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:28:28 -0400

If the Marine Corps is not up to your challenge...do something radical. There are other services anda hell of alot of jobs not offered in the Corps. You could join one of them, add to your time requirement for retirement protecting your benefits, AND find out there is another way to travel the worldserving your country.

Not having a degree you know is needed, or a plan in place prior to separation is ok...if you were very smart financially and have save $50K tucked away in the bank to cover you while you work out a plan. If you don't have goodbacking financially, it might be time to sit down quietly somewhere and reevaluate your plan of attack. It's good to have one, but two is better. Remember, no pkan ever survives first contact. BAMCIS!

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 25 at 2015 7:31 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:31:03 -0400

What does your gut say? Follow your instincts.

Response by SGT Regan Bensyl made Aug 25 at 2015 8:15 PM

SGT Regan Bensyl — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:15:53 -0400

Dont let these jerks on here mess with your head. I got out with very little planning after a rough deployment, with only weeks back in country. The world is as rough as the military wants you to think. I collected unemployment while getting my degree and collected gi bill. There's tons of grants to apply for. I made more than deployment pay while going to school. Seemed like a pay cut when I took a gs-6 job. But, I have survived and thrived. I have faith that anyone can do it if I can. If you need more support, get on the dysfunctional veterans page on facebook. There's more than enough support out there, just have to seek it out. And don't let the bad press about the VA scare you off either... They're not that bad, from my experience. I'll let you come to mine, if you like. They good people.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Aug 25 at 2015 8:22 PM

CSM Christopher St. Cyr — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:22:15 -0400

Don't stay because you are afraid to get out. There are plenty of options in the real world, but the military sucks unless YOU decide it is what you want to do. I've retired from my first career. I am working on another and planning a third after that, but I'm not sure any of them are what I want to do. I would not trade any of my work experience in the military or civilian sectors for anything in the world.

Response by SSG Douglas Turner made Aug 25 at 2015 9:12 PM

SSG Douglas Turner — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 21:12:48 -0400

First, if you can stay in and continue your career, Do it! The Corps is someething you either Love or hate, if you Love it STAY, otherwise, move on.
You can take CLEP tests for knowledge you already have for college credits, (https://clep.collegeboard.org/test-preparation?ef_id=VdkhlgAAAUepRejC%3A [login to see] 5309%3As&s_kwcid=AL%214330%213% [login to see] 924%21b%21%21s%21%21clep%20classes%3Fs_kwcid%3DAL%214330%213% [login to see] 924%21b%21%21s%21%21clep%20classes) is the web site that explains it.
Also there are plenty of colleges and universities that provide evening classes, and online course work to apply to a Major and Minor disipline. The transition from enlisted to officer is a good move for a few reasons,
1. The pay is higher if you keep moving up.
2. Carrying your experience of an enlisted soldier helps you better understand the needs of those below you, providing you don't forget where you came from!
3. Having the oportunity to lead in that capacity is an awesome experience, though I prefered the First Sgt. job.
4. you can glean guidance from those officers that lead you, work with and for you.
Remember, Once a Marine, always a Marine, SEMPER FI

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 25 at 2015 10:47 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 22:47:19 -0400

Just a thought...personally I would try to get into college immediately after leaving the service, only, but only if you know exactly what you want to study for, otherwise you'll be wasting your GI Bill. I left the service five years ago, fumbled around for a year, then finally started college and went straight on thru. I finished my Bachelors in 3 1/2 years and currently attending Graduate School; started Grad School the following semester. As a military man, you have the drive to complete your college degree without quitting midway, unlike other college students. You'll see it as "completing a mission," that's what will keep you going. Good luck!

Response by PO3 Daniel Bain made Aug 25 at 2015 11:48 PM

PO3 Daniel Bain — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:48:44 -0400

You can always re-enlist, during the last few years of the Vietnam war, I was able to end my active duty and finish my enlistment in the reserves. Then when the oil embargo hit at the end of 1973, I had a good paying job but was less than a year on the job making parts for fuel inefficient cars. I was first Army then Navy and in the Vietnam war in both branches. Back then they called us OSVETS, which stands for Other Service VETeran. I am still looking for a hat that says ARMVY VET. Have yet to find it. In the Army I was a combat engineer/bridge specialist. So my Navy job was an improvement.

Many of us that are on this side of 60 probably wished that we had stayed in for the retirement.

Response by SP5 Michael Cates made Aug 26 at 2015 1:46 AM

SP5 Michael Cates — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 01:46:56 -0400

Really an individual choice But Staying in might allow you to do a lot with your life! Like education etc. Suggestion why not try getting an Education while you are inside that might make you feel like you have accomplished something! Plus you will be helping your country in a way you will not really know for some time! Whichever way you go ALWAYS REMEMBER I AND MILLIONS OF OTHER AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS BE PROUD OF YOUR MILITARY SERVICE AND RESPECT YOU ON CHOOSING TO BE PART OF OUR ARMED SERVICES!

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Aug 26 at 2015 2:35 AM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 02:35:35 -0400

I hope you'll really listen to what I have to say because I wish I was again a 22 year old corporal with the choice to stay in or get out. In 1984, my MOS was being phased out of the Marine Corps in favor of a computer that the Marine Corps believed could do the job better. The battalion retention SNCO offered me retraining in my choice of any MOS if I would reenlist. I didn't. I was in a non-combat MOS in a relatively peacetime Marine Corps -- Beirut and Grenada being the only conflicts during that time frame -- so it was not very enjoyable being a Marine and I was sure being a civilian would be so much more enjoyable. Over the years, I wish I had taken the Marine Corps up on their offer and received retraining in intelligence, as it was just a few years later that the conflicts started flaring up all over the world, and I think my life may have been more interesting had I done so. My father retired from the Air Force after 23 years enlisted in the missile wing. My oldest brother, who entered the Marines after I did as a 2LT, retired after 28 years as a full bird Colonel commanding the combat engineer school at Camp Lejeune; he oversaw the building of the largest staging base in Marine Corps history in Kuwait for our invasion of Iraq. My other older brother, who enlisted in the Air Force after I enlisted in the Marines, retired after 30 years as either a E8 or 9 in a intelligence MOS. Since I only served four years in the Marines and then another four years in the National Guard, I feel like a lot less of a veteran than my father and brothers when I'm around them. I really wish I had stayed in. Don't get me started on how I turned down officer training after a couple weeks in Marine Corps Boot Camp and twice more while on a AGR tour with the National Guard. I was just young and dumb.

Response by Sgt Ben Zavala made Aug 26 at 2015 2:45 AM

Sgt Ben Zavala — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 02:45:48 -0400

Corporal , thanks for your service and sacrifice. I was once in your shoes , and contenplated on what to do. I took a chance and got out went to school, then got a good job. You'll be expiriencing the same feeling s when you retire as you are now. I work in CA department of corrections CDCR, the pay is great flexible days of , and you can earn a lot of money on overtime , and you don't need a degree. Look into it , theres many job options.
Do some research and have a plan before you get out. Good Luck

Semper Fi

Response by CW2 Michael Berthiaume made Aug 26 at 2015 5:28 AM

CW2 Michael Berthiaume — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 05:28:36 -0400

Whats your MOS or Job in the Military ? Been to Transition Assistance ? Take a scan across USA JOBS and see what kind of Jobs are out there, that you like. you get Veterans Hiring Preference with the Federal Govt.

Response by PO2 Gerry Tandberg made Aug 26 at 2015 5:33 AM

PO2 Gerry Tandberg — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 05:33:53 -0400

In todays economy you need marketable skills. There is not much out there for a Rifleman. I’d stay in and see of you can reclassify into something you might be interested in. I was fortunate enough to find myself in Navy Aviation back in the day. It served me well despite just being in for one tour. I quickly learned HS didn't prepare me very well for a career. Navy A school forced me to study and I was a very good Aviation Electrician. When I got out I pursued a degree in mechanical engineering, but had a difficult time with studies, working, and staying focused. The defense industry really wanted someone with more experience and the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) wanted me to go to their schools and start as an apprentice…if I could find a sponsor, which I couldn’t. I managed to bone up on my math skills and was hired as a draftsman for an engineering company. I worked my way up from Engineering Aid to Senior Design Coordinator, but it took ten years. Drafting is a lost art and todays equivalent would be CADD, or Computer Aided Drafting and Design. I got into it when it was just getting started…lucky me. Capitalize on your skills. I’m good at mechanics and loved working with guns, so I'm also I’m an amateur Gunsmith. Looking back now I would have loved to be on an Army, Navy, Marine Corp, or Air Force shooting team as a gunsmith. I work with Wounded Warriors and see a lot of guys (gals too) classified 100% disabled through the VA due to PTSD. Each Vet has a story, but not being able to transition into a civilian job is a common issue. They’ve got skills and interests but not pursuing getting better educated. Disability pay isn’t going to put much bread on the table. It’s tough out there and every employer wants to know if you have a degree for the simplest jobs. Take advantage of every military opportunity to get technical training and get some experience under your belt. Capitalize on what your good at. Civilian employers are looking for responsible, bright, and motivated workers who want to prove to them they’ve got what it takes. Don’t be shy about telling them you’ve got a skill and tell them; give me a chance and I can prove it. Make a plan and work the plan. Also, don’t be discouraged when someone says NO.

SFC Mark Merino’s advice is good. You need a solid plan/back-up plan/alternate plan/supplementary plan/and money in your savings. He’s also right about praying for guidance. The Lord works in mysterious ways for those who trust Him.

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Aug 26 at 2015 6:52 AM

MSG Ronnie Snider — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 06:52:36 -0400

Good Morning,

I once had that decision to make. I waited 15 days before ETSed and decide to re-enlist. It was the best decision I ever made. I ended up staying for 24 ½ years. You cannot put anything better on a resume of life than USA, Retired (or USN, USMC or USAF). I does not get any better. The medical care and the monthly checks are always there. What more could you ask for. It was not always an easy life. Deployments also took their toll. However, in the end I would not have ever changed a single thing. I would do it all over again in a second. Everyone may not agree just ask them, where did it go wrong for them and don’t repeat it if it fits. Good luck AIRBORNE!!

Response by PO2 Mike Shorey made Aug 26 at 2015 7:44 AM

PO2 Mike Shorey — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 07:44:32 -0400

It seems like you might want to re-up and start working on your degree while you're in. Do you have a career counselor at the command? Try talking to that person. Either way you go, good luck. When I got out I weighed the option of being away from my family for a year while staying in a place that made people drink and going immediately underway. That's the short version.

Back to the school issue. Don't be afraid to get out and go to school. The post 9-11 gi bill is great. Tuition and a living allowance.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Aug 26 at 2015 8:21 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:21:47 -0400

So, the good news is that you have goals. Look at where you are in life and what you need to do to get to those goals. Is starting at the bottom of a new job/career the best way to get there? Realize that whichever path you choose, there will be ass hats performing their asshattery - embrace that suck - because you have a goal worth attaining. WRT being treated as an adult, you've already had some success in the USMC and as you transition to the NCO Corps, you will become the "adult". Remember the leadership lessons you've learned (good and bad) and do your best to not repeat the negatives. I think most of everyone has arrived at the crossroads you have arrived to. I was a four and out guy, but being recalled from IRR and STOP LOSS helped me along...lol The fact that you are asking these questions means you've got a good head on your shoulders - set that goal and make the plan to get that goal. Good luck and enjoy the journey.

Response by Maj Paul Jungel made Aug 26 at 2015 8:38 AM

Maj Paul Jungel — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:38:21 -0400

Here is what I've heard over and over, time and time again..."I wish I had stayed in and now I'd be able to retire with a pension. It is becoming harder and harder to stay in, so if you qualify, don't be the one who regrets throwing that opportunity away later on in life. The military is a great career with benefits others only dream of. I went in a private and got out after becoming a Major. It can be done and you will always brag about being a Marine. I retired in 1988 and have been drawing a pension/retirement for 28 years now. That sort of makes up for the low pay for all those 'other' years. Take advantage of every tuition assistance college program the services offer and apply for their Degree Completion Program once you have enough credits under your belt. At least this was how I worked it out. Hope this helps.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 8:51 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:51:55 -0400

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member I was there at about 8-9 years. I was fed up with everything, but I had a few great mentors and friends that really broke it down for me. This was their advice to me:

1) Never let one individual overshadow your entire career. Those individuals will come and go but your career is yours.
2) Pick your battles. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose...regardless of whether we have policy on our side. Unless it puts the lives of our people or the mission in jeopardy, sometimes peace is better than being right.
3) You cannot always choose your situation but you can always choose your attitude.
4) This life is not for everyone and that is okay. We all have a certain amount of time in us to do this job; for some it may be longer and others it may be shorter. But when we are really honest with ourselves, that is when you will know.

I have come to believe that everyone has a certain number in them. This job is tough; now I understand that sometimes we just get to a point of no return and, though hard, we make that decision based on circumstances in our lives. I know a few people that got out who were on the fast track to Chief but after multiple deployments they just wanted to be home with their families. They traded the uniform for more time, because they knew that once it was gone...well it was gone. Many may still be in but "checked out" a while ago and are just going through the motions until retirement. We have all seen them.

Response by CPO James Clarke made Aug 26 at 2015 8:54 AM

CPO James Clarke — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:54:31 -0400

Devil Dog,
You need to really evaluate your current position before you decide. Getting out is easy. But these days getting back in can be difficult regardless of what recruiters tell you. If your married with kids the decision is even harder. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Can you change your MOS? You should atleast stay the course long enough to get an associates degree or Bachelors. That a huge plus getting out or going enlisted to Officer. If I had it to do again I would have started school as an E3 and had a masters before I retired. I got out with 10yrs and was in the civilian sector for 6 yrs and re-enlisted in the Military. I ended up doing 26.5 yrs. You have a check for life. Medical benefits and your family is covered too. Don't be in a hurry to get out. The civilian job market is not as great as it would seem unless you have tools learned in the Military that are applicable in the civilian world. You can call me anytime if you need someone to give a different perspective. Semper Fi..
CMC (SCW/FMF/EXW) Jim Clarke
7 [login to see]
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Boots on ground- Gulf war, Iraq, AFG

Response by SSG Lonny Self made Aug 26 at 2015 9:01 AM

SSG Lonny Self — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:01:15 -0400

first off how long have you been in second is what do you have for MOS and what type of schooling , this can all play part " in what too do my first response is do not be afraid you have skills that most do not there work ethics that have been ingrained so that is on your side and you have a mission to accomplish you will do so , next is timing timing is everything when it comes to reenlisting and what are your long term goals next do not fear change change is going to happen , first your mos has to be a good one that would be a job when you get out , if not then you have to look at it's staying power as I call it will you get to a position of power if you do the work please do not pick power apart just a word can you get to that lofty goal of retirement or better yet a position of favor that would give you the skills to move from service in to a civilian position doing the same thing for the military or a contractor , and then there is where can you go in the world in that mos some are confined to parts of us and some not some stay in over sea's hell some go back and forth , and then there is the big question you a soldier or a sales men do you want to work or do you want to play specialty schools to advance , and above all do not be afraid to move on to the work force there are lots of options , so for instance boat operator in the army that's right navy in the army good MOS all the way to w4 teach jobs in the military generally go to w4 not all but most again with the timing if you are an E5 in the army and in your second year as an nco warrant school is hard as it comes but pay off double or there is the officer candidate school if you have collage and want to run a desk or better the military your in there are lots of ways to mustang it in the navy too

Response by CPO James Clarke made Aug 26 at 2015 9:02 AM

CPO James Clarke — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:02:23 -0400

Devil Dog,
I have said this on many occasions and any Senior NCO or Staff NCO will tell you the same thing. Never decide your career path from your first duty station or enlistment. There is a lot you have not seen or had the opportunity to learn from. the first 5 years are normally the tough ones. Stay the course and evaluate after you reach your rotation or transfer window. You may be able to re-enlist for a specific school or orders that interest you.

Response by SCPO Don Baker made Aug 26 at 2015 9:16 AM

SCPO Don Baker — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:16:58 -0400

Cpl, I did 5 years and felt like you do. I enjoyed the Navy, but wanted to find out what was out there. I got out, joined the reserves (to keep my options open), went to college and got a crappy job. I was out for 3 years and figured out that the civilian world was not for me. Was able to go back in the Navy and did an additional 20 years. I believe getting out for a short period of time was the right thing for me. Good luck.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 10:40 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:40:47 -0400

If you are thinking about getting out to pursue a commission, contact a local ROTC recruiter and see what scholarship options are available to you. I know on the Air Force side, getting a commission through AFROTC is much easier than getting an OTS appointment.

Response by PO2 Adam Erickson made Aug 26 at 2015 10:58 AM

PO2 Adam Erickson — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:58:15 -0400

I never regretted getting out, and I loved the Navy. I got home met my wife and have a awesome family. That was in 1988. No risk no gain. Take with you what you have accomplished and be proud. Your job does not define you, only you do! :)

Response by MSG Carl Clark made Aug 26 at 2015 12:43 PM

MSG Carl Clark — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:43:23 -0400

An E-5 w/5 years of active duty service living off post with duty station in zip code 12401 makes approx $4500 mo. I know, a few years ago I grabbed a copy of his LES to show my daughter who is now in. That same individual if out would be lucky if he made 1/3 of that if a civilian; benefits? Forget-about it!

It's economic slavery for
Most out here in the real world. That said if you get out you will for a while have the Post 9/11 Gi-Bill to ease some of the pain. Lots to talk about. Consider finding an AGR position.

Response by Sgt Ken Crouse made Aug 26 at 2015 1:18 PM

Sgt Ken Crouse — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:18:39 -0400

With the mentioning of possibly becoming an officer in another branch, you may wish consider talking with one of those services' recruiters to better understand the path / reality vs. your dream-sheet and then consider ROTC for that service (focusing on an institution with the professional area of interest). A recruiter should be able to provide you with an overview of the best ROTC programs for your area of interest. Having your educational benefits should be a big positive for that path.
I got out at 22 yrs old (in 1977) and a Sergeant at the time after 4 yrs of active duty and nearly 3 yrs, 4 months of that time overseas (one year deployment with 4th Marines plus Embassy Duty). I was just tired and wanted out. However, the realities of a civilian life aren't always as sweet as they may appear - no one speaks your language, works as hard or carries themselves with the same self-respect professionalism as a Marine. On the flip side, one of my friends from the final year on active duty stayed in and did college in about 5-years @ night while working an admin job at MCRD and is now a reserve Colonel retiring later this year. Having a nice paycheck to start off each month when you're 55-60 opens a lot of other options.
Time will pass quickly, but the options available to you at this stage in your life / career will not always be there. Be diligent and patient in your decision making and best wishes.
S/F Ken

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 1:35 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:35:29 -0400

If I could go back in time I would have stayed in. Circumstances at the time led me to believe getting out was a good idea. Wish I had thought on it a bit longer before going through with SEPS.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Aug 26 at 2015 1:40 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:40:42 -0400

Getting out and staying in are both mixed bags. Don't think that getting out entitles you to be treated as an adult. You have to earn that in the workforce too. Biggest thing about getting out and I think most of us had to deal with this is the separation anxiety. You do not realize until you are out that military life was full speed ahead and getting things done whereas civilian life at least in your first year is a dead stop. It is boring and lonely, especially if you are single. Nobody understands what you did and some may even resent you for stepping up and serving when they would not.

I had an 2LT who did five years enlistment in the Marines and then got his commission through Texas A&M as an Army officer. He was a very good leader. He held us to high standards.

Big thing is to go to school shortly after you separate. College helps to keep your mind busy and it also provides a break from your parents and a way out of the community you grew up in and are returning to after separation. Use your education benefits, and your student benefits from the VA and get a part-time workstudy position while going to school full time. Use that period in school to learn how to prioritize your life by focusing on your classes and GET THAT DIPLOMA!!! Also, go to a school that teaches job search skills. Those are vital to establishing a career because once you graduate, you are truly on your own again. Unless you can reenter the military and take OCS.

Response by SGT Shawn Volkmann made Aug 26 at 2015 1:44 PM

SGT Shawn Volkmann — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:44:03 -0400

I had this problem after I got out. You have to weigh your options. Without knowing what your MOS is its hard to give advice. You can count on the fact that it is very,very hard to get civilian companies to recognize military certifications. Then whatever you do make sure to not lose one scrap of paper showing what you did. A dd214 just isn't enough anymore. You can also look at the private security sector, which boils down to making a lot more money for the job you do now, you just don't have the support of the government anymore. Dana Corp is one of these companies. Honestly it's best to stay in until you can draw a pension, the civilian job markets pay scale with no college really sucks.

Response by SGT Sam-steve Koons made Aug 26 at 2015 4:50 PM

SGT Sam-steve Koons — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:50:06 -0400

hey so... I just got out of the Army after 9 years active duty service. I deployed to Afghanistan twice and was a credit chief for the Apache helicopter. I was like you, I wanted freedom and the enjoyment of being a civilian. Although everyone's life is different, there remains one thing that is the same, you need to do what you believe is best for you and your family wetter it be a spouse and kids or close relatives. No one can say anything negative about that. As for myself I have been out for 6 months now and looking to get back in. Being a civilian is not everything it is cracked up to be. I hope this helps, and good luck on whatever you choose to do.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 6:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 18:04:01 -0400

CPL Dakota,
The choice to stay or get out is yours. You know what is best for you and your family. I will tell you what I told my Soldiers. Have a plan! It's that easy. If you stay in, look at what you need to do in order to progress. Don't stay in to receive a pay check. If you decide to get out, you should already have a plan. Whether that is going to college, specialty skills school or out in the work force. All this should have been done 6-12 months prior to getting out. If you haven't done this, you need to reevaluate your life and figure it out. Talk to your first line, career counselor and Ed center personnel for guidance.

Response by 1SG Nelson Alequin made Aug 26 at 2015 6:27 PM

1SG Nelson Alequin — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 18:27:14 -0400

Cpl Dakota, As a retired 1SG, i contemplated the very same th

Response by 1SG Nelson Alequin made Aug 26 at 2015 6:36 PM

1SG Nelson Alequin — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 18:36:26 -0400

Stay in,get your education up to speed and then get out. Nowadays, the average person working in retaurants already have some sort of degree. The commercial world has become a dog eat dog environment and to be successful you have to be both educated and have some sort of certification on your resume. Competition has become stiffer as the worker vs work ratio is getting wider apart. When you have time, there is a slide show on the internet named "2014, Now you know", check it out and see what I mean. Make yourself qualified just like the promotion system in the military. Good luck.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 26 at 2015 8:07 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:07:01 -0400

You need to follow your heart.

Response by PO3 Dennis Sutton made Aug 26 at 2015 10:15 PM

PO3 Dennis Sutton — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:15:53 -0400

What woul you like to do .

Response by LT Jon Anderson made Aug 27 at 2015 5:21 AM

LT Jon Anderson — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 05:21:23 -0400

I retired after 28 years and am having a tough go of it.
It is very true about who you know in getting your foot in the door. Especially if you stay near allot of other military.
A degree won't make any guaranties.

Response by SMSgt David Lawrence made Aug 27 at 2015 5:25 AM

SMSgt David Lawrence — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 05:25:47 -0400

Stay in a branch of the military and go Officer for the same reason cited many times in other posts, because you want it! I was a wing career adviser for 2 years and helped many Airmen cross train, apply for officer training programs like ROTC, Green to Gold, and OTS. but only do it because that is what you truly want.
On another note, look at medical insurance before getting out. Most will cost you $300+ per month for a single person and will carry a $3000 annual deductible before they pay anything. I have 2 adult children that are struggling under the new health care laws to make their way in this area.

Response by PO3 James Brooks made Aug 27 at 2015 9:23 AM

PO3 James Brooks — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:23:10 -0400

If u want a good job when u get out study a trade while ur still In

Response by SGT Greg Pochowski made Aug 27 at 2015 1:03 PM

SGT Greg Pochowski — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:03:53 -0400

As far as getting treated as an "Adult", I can only speak from personal experience ... civilian world, they talk to you with kids gloves. The transition from Airborne to civilian was horrible. I got out because I deployed so often, I never had time for my wife, or even having a child. But knowing what I know now, the Military spoke plainly, and simply. Civilian world... like a child. But that's only my point of view

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Aug 28 at 2015 6:07 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:07:13 -0400

Haven't looked at your profile so I have no Idea how long you have been in and what you have done during your time on active duty. What I can say is you should look at a few variables: Are you an above average soldier or just barely staying above water? How long have you been at your current rank?What do you need to accomplish to obtain the next rank. Do you find the thrill has left you in what you do (if you're thinking about getting out then it would seem that you're not satisfied with where you are ). Maybe a change of pace would do you good, but keep in mind asking the masses this kind of question will only get you answers of what they would do and they are not you. If you ask someone who didnt have that much fun, they will say forget the Military its a waste of time, get back on the block. Where as someone who was/is termed a " lifer" will say stay in and go as far as you can. It ultimately lands on your shoulders. College can be done while on active duty and to further your career it will be a must, even to go Officer its a pre requisite. What ever you decide I wish you luck and keep in mind that the military has one of the best medical care and education today.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 9:35 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 21:35:29 -0400

i would look at the new retirement changes going into effect in 2017, apparently you can opt in to them if you want. but they will help in your civilian career

Response by PO3 Michael James made Aug 28 at 2015 11:08 PM

PO3 Michael James — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 23:08:40 -0400

Cpl Sherman, Honestly, the way I felt.. I could NOT wait to go home.. after 3 months.. REALITY set in.. Oh how much I missed it.. I do NOT know when or how I became so attached to the military, but the military NOW seemed familiar and felt like home.. excuse, please, but I felt like a fish out of water.. Of Course.. friends are now married, some had families, most had STABLE jobs.. I found myself 4 years behind everyone I knew.. 68; US Citizens treated us like garbage.. 72; US Citizens still treated us like garbage, Workplace not much better.. As diseases started to surface, the Government and the VA treated us like Garbage.. Guess I am garbage.. now be totally honest with yourself.. You know what you have.. and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence..

Response by Maj Gary Gault made Aug 29 at 2015 12:13 AM

Maj Gary Gault — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:13:29 -0400

Hey Marine Cpl, Wow, I wish that I could join up today again! Really enjoyed my service time of 33 years Reserve; 20 US Army Reserve and Guards, with six years active duty; and 13 in the Maryland ANG where I served as historian and went on many many flying missions with C-130's. Don't settle for the old GS Civilian unless you can go on missions to break up the monotony of every day going to work. Go Reserve or National Guard if you get out, yet having the military put you through college for a commission is the best way to go. Search out your opportunities before you make the mistake of getting out before you have a plan and a backup plan and then a contingency plan after that! Semper Fi, God Bless Our Troops!!! Cheers, Maj Guido Ret, USAFR

Response by Maj Gary Gault made Aug 29 at 2015 12:18 AM

Maj Gary Gault — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:18:28 -0400

Marine Cpl, Make sure that you enjoy the service before making plans to stay in service. Check out your opportunities before separating from service; see what OCS or ROTC or service academy can do for you. Have a plan for moving up in service, then have a backup plan and another contingency plan to make sure your bases are covered. My service time was active duty and reserve 33 years! Loved it, especially deployments. Cheers and Good Luck, Maj Guido USAFR ret

Response by SSG David Dickson made Aug 29 at 2015 8:02 AM

SSG David Dickson — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:02:21 -0400

Corporal, are you single? Get out, go to college on the post-911, additionally, apply for PELL Grants, maybe a student loan, and live your dream. If after completing your degree you miss the Service, you can come back in as an officer.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 11:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:53:35 -0400

Things aren't always better on the officer side. Still many of the same rules, restrictions, and unpredictability. If you can put up with that because you love what you do, that's great. If you want to look for something else, there are more opportunities now than ever.

Many people seem stuck on thinking that you need an expensive, formal education to be successful in the civilian economy. This is not always the case. If you want an institutionalized job with hierarchy and bureaucracy not all that different from the military, then go into law, medicine, or some rigidly structured corporations. That's what people mean when they say "you put up with the same stuff anywhere you go"--but I think they're just looking in the wrong places.

Here are some resources that can put you on track to finding your interests and learning valuable skills without having to dish out the same money as you would attending a brick-and-mortar college:

https://www.khanacademy.org/

https://www.coursera.org/

http://dailytekk.com/2012/01/29/6-easy-ways-to-learn-coding-and-computer-science-for-free/?reading=continue

http://www.audible.com/pd/Bios-Memoirs/You-Only-Have-to-Be-Right-Once-Audiobook/B00OI0695S#publisher-summary

Coursera and Khan Academy will help you learn whatever you're interested in. Particularly, there's an incredible demand for tech skills such as coding and app development. The field is changing so rapidly that colleges and formal institutions have a hard time keeping up, so online resources or getting some practical experience is probably the most valuable way to learn.

You Only Have to Be Right Once: The Unprecedented Rise of the Instant Tech Billionaires

Check out this great listen on Audible.com. The ultimate insider's look at the newest titans of tech, from the editorial team at Forbes. Silicon Valley's new billionaires are an unconventional breed, turning ideas into money at a rate never before seen in human history. Their ascension proves a t...

Response by PO2 Ron Burling made Aug 29 at 2015 1:11 PM

PO2 Ron Burling — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:11:47 -0400

Well, Sgt Private RallyPoint Member I got out in 1978, with 12 years service. My last duty station was MCAS(H) Futenma. Take a look at my profile for details, but it is a decision I often regret.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 1:29 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:29:35 -0400

It all is based on your current situation. I've come to that very same crossroads recently and decided it was best for myself to stay in due to the fact I don't have a degree, and without one I wouldn't be able to support the current lifestyle I live thanks to the military. The navy has some really good officer programs not sure about the air force but all the same you just need to talk to the right people so they can give you the right information and base your decision on what you feel is right for you. Lastly don't let anyone ever pressure you interact something that you don't want to do.

Response by SGT Glenn E Moody made Aug 29 at 2015 8:42 PM

SGT Glenn E Moody — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:42:13 -0400

hi CPL i am glad when i first got out but after a few years all i wanted to do is reenlist. i had a great job but misted the buddy's i met and served with and most of all is shooting and blowing up stuff but like you i don't have any high School or College degrees at all but i did ok in civilian jobs

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 5:06 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 05:06:54 -0400

You look young enough to do ROTC, go be a school nazi for a while and get paid to go to school, then be an officer. Too easy. Unemployment is 200% that's 2X the rate of civilians for military and former military. You might want to consider that 20 year retirement before the armed forces screw everyone over that starts fresh with the 401K nonsense. The proverbial problem is that you don't have a truly clear pull towards one idea or another. That could cause you to get into the civilian world and become more complacent than the military allows for. The standards of your thoughts and activities now are in direct relationship to the peer group you surround yourself with. Civilians are hard to deal with. In general they do not move with a purpose and are very whimsical. Not only is there the figuring out what you want to do, but dealing with the lowered standards of everyone surrounding you and trying to remain unaffected. As for being treated like an adult, the world doesn't care and it will try to one up and blue falcon you at every turn. I'd urge you to go to the reserves and ease your way out because you'll miss the brotherhood way more than you think (hence the reason my cousin fmr marine is now an 11B in the national guard). Good luck and godspeed.

Response by SSgt Dustin Coy made Aug 31 at 2015 9:58 PM

SSgt Dustin Coy — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:58:47 -0400

Honestly I think it depends on you, and how much you're willing to work for it, and a bit of luck.

I don't know that this will help, but, I knew early on that I wasn't going to do the career thing if I could avoid it. And from the very first time I raised my hand to recite the oath, I knew I was trading a set number of years in my life in service for an education and a career path. I committed to give everything the military had coming to it as my end of the deal, and I would make sure that I got everything out of it I could along the way. Originally I was only planning on doing one tour, getting the education benefits, and a trade, and then rotating back to civilian life to go to school. Then, just before I was due for my first re-enlistment, I found out that my wife was having twins. It was at that point that I realized that I hadn't done anything really to prepare myself for a career on the outside, and simply getting out and going to school, or "hoping" for work, wasn't going to pay the bills. So I sucked it up and re-enlisted. That said, I also promised myself that I wouldn't be in that position ever again. The next time my date rolled around, I'd be damn sure that I had done everything I could to prepare myself, and I would know exactly what was, or wasn't available on the outside. If there was nothing available, I could always re-up again, but if that happened, I could do it without any remorse, or frustration that I let it slip through my fingers again.

After, I re-enlisted, I stopped ALL partying, prepared for the birth of the twins, and then started taking the classes I needed to finish my degree. It sucked for a while, but I followed through on my promise to myself and prepared for life on the outside. I researched and worked on the skills I'd need on the outside, as well keeping an eye on areas I was interested in. At about a year and a half before my next re-up date, I felt I was ready to dip my toe in the water, and started the process of actively searching and applying for open jobs that I was interested in. Ironically, it all happened much faster than I expected, or ever dreamed of really.

I got called for an interview, about 16 months before my scheduled DOS, and at the time, my thoughts were "Yeah, I'll go do the interview, but really at this point it's more about getting civilian world style interview experience in a position I'm interested in." So, I took the interview, did my absolute best, answered their questions, gave a presentation that was part of the interview process, and through it all, I was pretty sure that even though I was very interested in the position, I was going to lose out, just due to the timing of it all. I will say that through the entire process, I was very forthright about the fact that I still had a commitment to the military for another 16 months. I did let them know there was a possibility that I could get an "Early Out" but it was just that...a possibility...to my surprise, they said "no problem" and offered me the job. I was kind of shocked by all of that to be honest. In any event, I immediately started the paperwork for the early out request, got approved, and about 5 months later started terminal leave and went to work as a civilian in the exact job I wanted about a year earlier than I was really supposed to, or really hoping to. To this day, it still blows me away that they held the job for me as long as they did.

At the time about half the people I worked with in the military, told me I was making a huge mistake and I'd regret getting out for the rest of my life, I can honestly say, no, I haven't. I'm still working there today, and have enjoyed a fabulous civilian career along the way. Upon starting there, I immediately more than doubled my annual income, was actually treated like an adult and a professional, given a flexible schedule, allowed to telecommute, and over the years, have traveled the world in style (Business/First Class and Five Star Hotels) and paid AWESOME per-diem on top of it. That said, I've earned every nickel I've made, and have done my absolute best to exceed every expectation anybody has ever had of me. I neither regret my time in the service, nor my decision to leave when I did, and am very thankful for how it has all worked out. I have been extremely fortunate through it all, and that's not really the norm. In fact, to be fair, I really cant see that happening today. My transition took place during the internet boom, and I only had a bit over 6 years in the service at that point. Had I waited, I would've reached high year tenure, as an E-7 last December, and been forced to retire, (unless I'd made E-8/E-9) and be trying to find a job in this economy. Getting out when I did, and going about it the way I did, was the best career related decision I ever made as far as I'm concerned.

I guess my overall advice would be, if you're going to go for it, don't just go after it half-assed (not that you would, I'm just sayin'...) Now for the specifics, first, decide what you feel is your "point of no return" date. In other words, the point where it makes more sense financially etc, to you to just gut it out for a career, even if that means that you might have to actually work for McD's, Walmart etc, for a while to pay the bills after you retire, while searching for your next career gig. Next, decide what you want to do on the outside, and do a bit of research as to how much work it is to get you to the point that you're marketable in that area. Now, if you actually decide you're making the move, make a workable plan. Like a: "I'm up against the wall and I don't have a choice, so I'm going to do everything I can, as early as I can, to set myself up for success." kind of plan. Then give yourself the time to actually follow through on it and work the plan.

If you approach it in that fashion, at the end of it, you'll have no regrets. Either you'll find what it is you're looking for, or find out that there's nothing out there available that your interested in doing. As such, you'll have no reason to have any remorse in re-enlisting, because at that point, you did all you could, and you're as informed as you can be. The key if it doesn't work out and you have to re-enlist, is to take what you've learned from your first attempt, apply it to your plan for the next time around, and then work through it all over again. Once you find it, make the move, don't wait, unless you're past your point of no return. Spend your entire career in the military preparing yourself for your next career. Too many people I've known, said I've got plenty of time, before worrying about any of that, and didn't put the work into prepping along the way. They waited until they were on their last enlistment, and a rapidly approaching their retirement date before they started the process...that type of transition plan is pretty tough from what I've seen. Especially in this economy. Prepare for success, then succeed.

Best of luck to you!

Response by Sgt Brad Hinton made Sep 2 at 2015 1:37 PM

Sgt Brad Hinton — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 13:37:53 -0400

My feelings were similar to yours when it was time for me to decide. I was tired of deployments and alot of the bs. I have found out however, that there is alot of bs in the civilian workforce as well. I miss the comradery that I had found in the military. And while I enjoy what I do for a living , I don't get the same satisfaction that I did from being in the military. I felt that it was difficult at best maintaining a relationship while I was in. Being gone all the time seemed to take its toll on them. Ultimately you are going to have to sit down and decide what is more important to you. Try writing a list of pros and cons that go along with each choice. Whatever you choose, good luck to you, and thank you for your service.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Sep 3 at 2015 10:45 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:45:29 -0400

I originally enlisted for three years; ended up staying for 25 years and retiring as a LtCol. During those years I earned a college degree and experienced more variety in living than any of my friends I left behind in my home town. As others have said, your first enlistment is a payback. The second is where you start reaping the benefits. More responsibility earlier than you will ever find in the civilian world. Opportunities you can not imagine, but all must be earned by your performance and initiative.
Don't know if it is still available, but Southern Illinois used to offer medical administrators degree you could earn on base (LeJeune and Pendleton) with a good chunk of the expense paid by the Corps. Prospective employers generally appreciate the increased responsibility military personnel have normally experienced. Add some good military schools you can get as an enlistment incentive, and college courses generally available on or around the base and you've set yourself up for success.
I'm betting you're in your early 20s so you have time. Set yourself up before heading out into the civil jungle.

Response by SSG Charles McDermott made Sep 4 at 2015 11:27 AM

SSG Charles McDermott — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:27:52 -0400

Stay in

Response by PO1 Bronson Kennedy made Sep 4 at 2015 12:33 PM

PO1 Bronson Kennedy — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:33:29 -0400

I'll say it again. Stay in. How many people have responded by saying they wished they had stayed in??? You will not find the benefits in the private sector that the military offers on active duty and into retirement. Period! Learn to deal with knuckle bosses. They are everywhere. Enlisted ranks, officer ranks, private sector.

Degrees??? Everyone has them now including people working entry level positions. Put in your time, invest in yourself, get a degree, stay grounded and DO NOT LET the military consume your way of thinking, NETWORK, and bring something else to the plate when your start a career outside of the military.

I'm a retired E6 with a retirement and disability check, a six figure government check, a wife that makes six figures and we live in San Diego county. We didn't have any hand outs along the way and live in a big house with a pool, a great school district, have a few nice cars, and great portfolio all compliments of the US Government. You see -- the Navy allowed me to invest in myself and have the financial flexibility that you will not find in the private sector. I mean, tell me where else you can live rent/mortgage free, 100% free tuition available, moving expenses paid for, per diem paid daily, free medical coverage AND earn a salary? NO WHERE....

It's a tough out there. Make sure you are FULLY prepared for it.
I was.

Response by A1C George Lyda made Sep 9 at 2015 1:28 PM

A1C George Lyda — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:28:58 -0400

I had to get out Honorable Discharge for Hardship reasons. Both my parents were disabled, not getting enough money to survive. I gathered proof from their Doctor of their conditions. My younger brother was to young to work. I had been sending 1/2 of my checks home, but I was only an Airman, then A1C, this being in 1982 so I was of little help. After gathering all the pertinent information I informed my Supervisor to double-checked as much of the information as possible, then wrote me a Good Recommendation, had me go to the First Sgt who had a lot of questions to ask, then all this information when to the Commander of Supply who approved, I then had to go to HQ's Personnel with all the information and recommendations. My Father-in-law provided proof that I 100% had a civilian job waiting on me where he worked and I would be making three times what I was in the military, they out-processed me in a day. Per Diem to get from HAFB Homestead to South Carolina was barely enough to the penny to get myself and the wife home. I wish EVERYDAY that I could have finished my time in the service, but with a MOS change. It haunts me to this day, but family is extremely important. Hope this helps some.

Response by SSgt Jackie Sevdy made Sep 10 at 2015 11:17 AM

SSgt Jackie Sevdy — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:17:26 -0400

This is a decision only you can make, and I'm in a similar position. Here's why I think you should stay in.

1. You said you don't have a plan. Dont separate without one of those.

2. You're not willing to get a bottom rung job, so you are not ready to do ANYTHING. Those jobs are not beneath you or anyone else.

3. You want basic liberties back, but your word choices show some immaturity. Don't judge personal freedoms on being stationed at Okinawa. Stay in and you will gain the rank and freedoms you want... along with responsibility. If you aren't prepared for that, maybe you should get out. Just know you won't be handed anything just because you served a few years. Your goals will take much hard work and persistence.

Personally, I felt after my reenlistment, some of that frustration at being treated as "just a lowly airman" dissipated.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Oct 4 at 2015 2:41 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 02:41:56 -0400

If you can, I recommend staying in and getting your degree. While you will still be working in your MOS, you won't have to worry about rent, clothing, food or health care. Plus I think, not sure that you will get some type of tuition assistance also.
If you just don't want to stay in, make sure that you check out your benefits for the most current status of the Montgomery GI bill, and whoever you go to work for supports the apprenticeship programs. Before I retired from Virginia Department of Corrections, I was signing off on the apprenticeship paperwork for newly hired corrections officers and I believe it was like a grand a month.
My best advice, do your 20, and get your degree while you're doing it. You'll still be young enough to start a second career and have a retirement check coming in plus the new check. Invest in a 401k as much as you can afford to, and by the time you decide to retire for good, you will be able to live comfortably. Two retirement checks and the 401k.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2018 5:13 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 17:13:05 -0400

I get where you're coming from big time. I was army infantry for a few years, hated my unit command and got out. At first it was bliss. Freedom, work not fucking with me while I was home, PT on my own schedule, loved it. Then reality set in. I aspired to become a cop which takes up to a year or more to get hired on as, and had to work a couple temporary jobs while that was in the works. I was making a fraction of what I was on active duty, and had to work nights on top of that. Not to mention shitty civilian healthcare programs. I immediately looked at going back in, and eventually lead to be going back to active duty. Now, I'm not sure if I'll do the full 20, I made several mistakes like making a cross country move after ETS, moving from a cheap place to a very expensive place, and because I could fly across the country for LEO testing I didnt have a good job lined up after I got out.

That was my fuck up. You don't gave to have the same result but just do a realistic pro and con about cost of living, pay, benefits etc. It's amazing how quick you rack up a year or more at a "temporary" job, then turn around and miss the quality of life you once had. Oh, and the bullshit- contradicting policies, incompetent leadership, etc...it's everywhere. Not just in the military.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 9:01 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:01:50 -0500

I am literally in the same exact boat. Im 23 I have been in for almost the 6 years and now that my enlistment is coming up I'm low key stressing weighing out all of my options. I have my associates degree finished but its the CCAF which doesn't exactly do a whole lot on the outside. The way I see it though is when my enlistment comes up AND I just found out I'm promoting to Staff Sergeant this month. I didn't think I was going to be such a hard decision to make but now that the time is coming up quick I definitely understand where you are coming from. Im thinking I should have at least a Bachelors degree to get out with so I might either go guard and be a full time student or stay in to keep all my benefits and continue schooling through TA. My biggest piece of advice I can leave you with though is have a good mentor that's either been in the military a long time or retired from it. I feel like they have so much wisdom to build off of and If you consider a good mentors advice you really can't go wrong.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jul 22 at 2019 10:26 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:26:10 -0400

Stay in the Corps as long as you can. Most civilian jobs are boring, have low pay and NO job security. Most college grads these days don't make as much as an E-5 in the military.

I've seen both sides of the fence. If you can put up with the BS of the military and they are willing to keep you - stay in. You are going to be 40 years old someday. Better to reach that age with a steady monthly retirement check than without. Also, get working on at least an associates degree. It will help you get promoted in the Corps and it will prepare you for civilian life down the road.