Reenlistment; is it ever possible to back out after signing?

2014-08-22T00:21:19-04:00

I have a buddy who got a great job offer in Colorado but he has signed his reenlistment papers already but hasn't done his reenlistment ceremony yet. Can he back out still or is he out of luck?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 6:36 PM

2014-08-22T18:36:08-04:00

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member Typically, once the paperwork has been inked, the job is done - especially with enlisted personnel. However, if he/she is in an over-crowded rating/MOS he/she may be able to arrange for the enlistment to be voided since the oath has not been sworn. If the individual is in a rating/MOS that is critical the C.O. may not be inclined to let the individual out. Of course, the rules keepers will say nay - but there are rules and then there are rules.

The individual's relationship with the command will also have a great deal to do with how the command deals with the individual.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 22 at 2014 6:38 PM

2014-08-22T18:38:57-04:00

Being commissioned, my relationship with the Army is different, so not really sure what the rules are. But don't you typically not sign the paperwork until you are ready to re-take the Oath of Enlistment....?

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Aug 22 at 2014 7:17 PM

2014-08-22T19:17:49-04:00

I have never signed the papers until after the ceremnoy. However I am pretty sure that a ceremnoy is exactly that just a ceremony. Once you sign the paperwork I believe you have alreayd committed yourself.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 22 at 2014 8:07 PM

2014-08-22T20:07:23-04:00

The signature on the contract is just that, a signed contract. Just like any other contract that one may sign, it carries obligations (by both parties). Unfortunately there is no 'buyers remorse' clause on a DD Form 4 (Enlistment/Reenlistment contract).

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Aug 25 at 2014 1:31 AM

2014-08-25T01:31:26-04:00

What papers were signed?

There are often pre-qualification documents such as requests and command authorization (service and component specific). The actual enlistment/reenlistment document is the DD form 4.

I have always viewed the DD 4/2 as certification that the oath was administered. As the service representative, I don't present it for signatures until the ceremony is conducted.

I have seen contracts voided after the fact when the provisions of that contract violate policy (e.g. unauthorized incentive or term of service). In the case of the USAR, AR G-1 is the determining authority. I have never seen it as a result of a job offer.

Response by LtCol Dave Jonas made Aug 25 at 2014 11:18 AM

2014-08-25T11:18:06-04:00

He is almost certainly out of luck.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Aug 25 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-08-25T11:35:40-04:00

If the paperwork he signed was for the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) [which in my experiance is the only time I have known people to sign paperwork before the oath at MEPS] then, yes he can back out.

Anyone can request release from DEP and it is current DOD policy to allow that without issue, though he may get the runaround for awhile with the recruitment officer.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:38 PM

2014-09-05T22:38:14-04:00

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member - My daughter got out after 1-2 years due to a physical problem.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:48 PM

2014-09-05T22:48:52-04:00

Not uncommon to sign before the ceremony/oath. Sorry but more then likely out of luck.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-09-05T22:52:24-04:00

I have extended and re-enlisted twice so far, and just completed the Army's Mobile Retention Course.

In the Army, once the re-enlistment is approved in the RETAIN system (automated personnel system) it is a done deal. For it to get to this point, you have to be recommended by your Company Commander, you have to sign the DD Form 4, the Career Counselor has forms to fill out and sign, and then the Career Counselor has to input it all into the system. It won't go into the system until everything has been done properly. So once you sign, unless your Retention NCO hasn't put it in the system yet, it is done.

It's like getting married... Once you sign the marriage license, it's legal. The wedding ceremony is nice, but doesn't hold water legally.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Sep 6 at 2014 7:07 PM

2014-09-06T19:07:45-04:00

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member I hate to say it, but signing the paperwork is what makes it official. The papers are not supposed to be signed until after he does the ceremony though. He certainly could talk to his battalion legal, or LSSS. LSSS is on Camp Foster in Okinawa. He could also try calling the customer service number before wasting a whole day's trip down there.

Response by MAJ Bill Whitman made Sep 12 at 2014 10:33 AM

2014-09-12T10:33:38-04:00

The DD Form 4 is the only contractual document evidencing the enlistment. Each service will have particular annexes to memorialize the understandings between service member and command. The completion of section E of the DD Form 4 is the oath which is required to complete the enlistment/reenlistment. In general if the oath isn't taken there is no reenlistment but the ceremony is just that, a ceremony. So if the DD Form 4 is not completed by not taking the oath and signing there is nothing except a lot of inconvenience to the command to reprocess the service member out for completion of the term of enlistment by discharging or redoing the paperwork for an enlistment to the Reserves since there is a mandatory service obligation of 8 years. After reenlistment is completed he may be able to request discharge but there usually is a service obligation attached to complete such as a PCS or school. There are particular rules on that. He should consult with his Legal Assistance office.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Sep 14 at 2014 1:32 AM

2014-09-14T01:32:47-04:00

You are not ever committed. There is always a way out. It might not be honorable, but there is a way out. If he signed papers promising to defend our nation for X amount of year, and he is willing to ditch that for a higher paying job, he should not be in the military right now to begin with. He never cared about defending our nation, he just wants a job.

Though I left the Army after my initial enlistment, I never tried to weasel my way out of what I signed up for. I made a deal with the United Sates of America. As much as the job was not fun at times, I am a man, and I am only as good as my word. I have little to no respect for someone who tries to weasel their way out of commitments they agreed to.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 2:53 AM

2014-09-18T02:53:56-04:00

We are in a draw down military now, so there maybe options to be placed in the IRR. In theory if he had not recited the oath that could be grounds for it being null and void. That would be a legal issue for the Jag office to hash out. It may be wise to visit the personnel office as well to see what options are available.

I knew a few people who were able to get out after reenlisting because they were in overmanned career fields. That will be a factor they will most likely look at. Another point is if he took a re-up bonus they will take that back.

Response by PO1 Ken Johnson made Sep 19 at 2014 7:36 AM

2014-09-19T07:36:43-04:00

I think the key here is: What "PAPERWORK" did he sign?

I never saw someone sign the contract until the actual ceremony took place. Now is all he signed were the request to reenlist and it went up the chain of command, that is not a binding contract. I think we need to know exactly what he signed.

Response by SGT James S. made Oct 14 at 2014 9:32 AM

2014-10-14T09:32:07-04:00

I always found it funny that a contract needed to be signed for whatever length of commitment in an all volunteer military. Sort of invalidates the whole "volunteer" aspect of it in my humble opinion.

In nearly every other job out there, if a better opportunity presents itself, you are free to resign your position and move on, usually with a two week notice. The only time this is not the case is when your company has paid for certain training, certifications or degrees and requires a length of time commitment from you in return. You are still free to resign your position but usually you are responsible for reimbursing the company the monies they paid out on your behalf.

The same thing goes for those who take on employment, then find that they are completely unhappy with the professional choice they've made. They are free to resign their position with little or no consequence.

Our all volunteer military, on the other hand, doesn't allow for for this, at least for enlisted members. It's my understanding that an officer, once their initial commitment based on their commissioning source is fulfilled, is free to resign their commission at any time and move on if a better professional opportunity presents itself or they just want to leave service. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Enlisted are afforded no such latitude, with the exception of senior enlisted I believe. Many times, when an enlisted member want to leave service, for whatever reason, they are held to the contract they were required to sign for reenlistment. This sometimes results in a soldier becoming resentful, then doing what they feel they need to do to be removed from service, often ending in a dishonorable discharge. The command, as I've seen in the past, tends to drag out the discharge process for as long as possible while the senior enlisted make life as miserable as possible for that soldier in the mean time.

I've blabbed on enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that this soldier may now end up becoming disgruntled because he will be forced to honor a service commitment that he volunteered for and give up a professional opportunity because of a signature. I hope this doesn't happen and wish him the best of luck.

Response by MSG Sean Milhauser made Feb 21 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-02-21T16:40:49-05:00

The DD Form 4 Series is the legal and binding CONTRACT that is an agreement between the reenlistee and the U.S. Government that the reenlistee agrees to voluntarily commit more years of service to their respective branch and the United States of America. Whether a ceremony occurred before or after the signing of these documents is irrelevant.

Unlike an ENLISTMENT contract where there may be a "delayed entry option" before actually being sworn in to the active component, generally speaking there is no provisions to "change your mind", "back out of the contract", have "buyer's remorse", etc. When you sign the contract and it is valid, you are legally bound to uphold your obligation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 1:03 AM

2015-02-25T01:03:21-05:00

The ceremony should be done before the paperwork. When the Officer signs they are signing that the oath has been sworn before me. If the oath has not been done yet then why were they signing the document?

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Mar 1 at 2016 12:00 PM

2016-03-01T12:00:41-05:00

He'd need to check with legal. He probably could but would get an RE-4 discharge code.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Apr 21 at 2019 2:14 PM

2019-04-21T14:14:49-04:00

Sorry to break it to you mate - but the ceremony is just a formality - the minute you initial and sign the contract, and your commander signs his part - you have a contractual obligation.