Regardless of military branch, which pay grade is most challenging to deal with?

2014-08-23T19:39:07-04:00

Mature audiences only. No hurt feelings. No repercussions.

In aviation, I thought it was a conspiracy to drive me insane! In combat, I loved them all. Air Cav!!!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 23 at 2014 7:40 PM

2014-08-23T19:40:10-04:00

Click image to see the full picture.....

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 7:43 PM

2014-08-23T19:43:33-04:00

SFC Mark Merino. This may be artifact of my specific generation, but I would say middle- aged senior male married military officers who felt we were in country for their personal entertainment . . . dinner, drinks, dancing too many nights. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 10:18 PM

2014-08-23T22:18:37-04:00

What ever grade I'm not is the simple answer!

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Aug 23 at 2014 10:19 PM

2014-08-23T22:19:48-04:00

I always had the hardest time out of E6's and then when I was an E6 it turned out to be the worst grade of my career. It was a stressful grade.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 1:53 AM

2014-08-24T01:53:59-04:00

As a Military Police Soldier, I can say without a doubt that FM/W (Family Member / Wife) wins this hands down! As all of my MP brothers and sisters will attest, 95% feel they are owed something, 40% feel they deserve the rights and privileges afford to their husband's rank, and 30% disregard the rights, responsibilities and privileges of others.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 10:53 AM

2014-08-24T10:53:46-04:00

O1 was the toughest for me. I had been out for five years, shifted from the waterfront to a training command, and the Navy had wussified around me.

Suffice to say, I was such a bull in the china shop that people thought I was an LDO.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Aug 25 at 2014 2:55 PM

2014-08-25T14:55:03-04:00

For me it was the E-5 Sergeant. It was the most challenging position to deal with in others, and the most challenging to be.

It seemed that they were often over inflated, power hungry individuals who felt they had finally "Made it" and could suffer on to others as they had suffered themselves.

It was difficult AS an E-5 for me to try to maintain the discipline and authority an E-5 should have, within that culture. Especially when that is what was expected of me from above.

E-5's are not blunt instruments, and there is far more to teach a Soldier than PT and intimidation.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2014 7:35 AM

2014-09-28T07:35:41-04:00

O-6's chasing a star.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Sep 28 at 2014 9:54 AM

2014-09-28T09:54:02-04:00

SGT/E-5, The Dear Abby of the NCO Corp, Private Complain, Specialists Sham, SSG, and SFC expect Miracles and SGT is stuck in the middle, LOL

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Nov 24 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-11-24T13:13:21-05:00

I'm voting for Senior Enlisted.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-11-24T15:22:04-05:00

Why the dig at warrant officers?? Haha. Jk. I think the picture is spot on....no pun intended. I will say though, in my experiences, there is a definite line between the aviators and us "walking warrants". This is neither good nor bad, but it is evident.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Nov 24 at 2014 3:26 PM

2014-11-24T15:26:38-05:00

new E-3's and E-6's that are more worried about an anchor then their troops

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Nov 24 at 2014 4:43 PM

2014-11-24T16:43:12-05:00

Nice sign there Sarge! Bad run in with a warrant officer or something? LMBO, too funny actually and are you sure they used the word "hole"?

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Nov 24 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-11-24T16:53:56-05:00

Butter bars They know more and do it better than everybody else.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 5:14 PM

2014-11-24T17:14:10-05:00

O4s are feeder fish. I cant wait to be one

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 11:55 PM

2014-12-27T23:55:17-05:00

LTC and COL (O-5/O-6). Pain in the ass because they think they know it all, they're never wrong, and you are always wrong, even if you're a tactically minded SFC with 20+ years in to their 14 or so (at LTC). COLs can be slightly better to deal with than LTCs. And sometimes a MAJ can be a real PITA too, but not usually as bad as a LTC. The easiest to deal with (although it wasn't asked), are MSGs (not 1SGs) and CPTs in most cases if they were brought up right by their SNCOs.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 11:10 AM

2014-12-28T11:10:18-05:00

By reading the responses, I'd have to say this question could be segmented. Most officers are complaining about senior enlisted and the enlisted complaining about everyone above them. The branches are different also and I could say that even in the Marine Corps it would vary depending on Division/Wing and in the Wing, fixed wing vs. rotor wing.

The worst for me were the boot "contract" E4s who outranked me when I was close to separation or after reenlistment. Everyone I came in with was a contract E4, I just wish my recruiter had mentioned that path. Most of the Majors I knew in the Rotor Wing community were out of control; they all wanted senior leadership positions.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Dec 28 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-12-28T12:20:20-05:00

I would imagine in the rotor head corps you would have an issue with warrant officers, but I would have to say that I have many friends that are warrants, and we got along great. It is always good to have a few CWO4's and CWO3's on your side. I am close friends with a few of them still.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Dec 28 at 2014 12:25 PM

2014-12-28T12:25:54-05:00

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Dec 28 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-12-28T12:39:47-05:00

For me the hardest rank to deal with was 0-1, or better known as the "Butter Bar." We had a general that told all of our 0-1's if they were going to argue a point with any senior NCO, they had better be right, or those young officers would be on the carpet answering as to why they would challenge someone about their job that had more time in a latrine than they had in the army. I had a case with a young butter bar that Was pretty funny.
I was an LNO working in Corps HQ on a new targeting system. I was over seeing several Bragade HQ's during the exercise. One of the Bde LNO's was a butter bar, and I would see him in our shop all the time. I had to go to his units HQ to troubleshoot some equipment problems they were having, and was working closely with one of their captains. This butter bar comes in screaming at all the Senior NCO's in the TOC like he ran the place. As he was leaving the TOC to head back to my TOC, I looked over to the captain and said, "do you know why I like butter bars?", he answered "no." I said, "because they taste just like chicken." That LT turned bright red and started walking my way when the captain asked him if he had a problem. He said "No sir" and stormed out. He then went to my commanding general and explained what I had done. The general told him that I was a pretty damn good cook so he would take my word for it. Best general ever. Lol

Response by 1SG Pete Marcell made Dec 28 at 2014 1:46 PM

2014-12-28T13:46:04-05:00

For me it was going from a Tank Platoon Sergeant to a Brigade Combat Team HHC 1SG. Hearding section E8's who has all been 1SG's already. Begging them for Joes to do work, and trying to maintain accountability. For the first six months all I heard from them was, "Hey First Sergeant, you need to _____________. When I moved to line company 1SG it was very simple, keep the Company Commander and the Battalion CSM happy.

The best rank I has was Platoon Sergeant. I had my four tanks, fourteen dudes, and a fresh butter bar to train. It was very fun and very rewarding.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 2:27 PM

2014-12-28T14:27:19-05:00

Sticking with the picture in the question - back when I was a very young MECH INF SCOUT up at FT Riley doing some maneuvers with other units, we had a aviation MAJ land a Cobra for us INF type to look at (read drool over) after the maneuvers were over. After about 30 minutes up drives a CW2 and commences to chew this MAJ up one side and down another for landing the Cobra where he did, something about being an unauthorized landing area, and tells him to get it back to the unit.

I was not that long out of boot and not really sure where or how Warrants fit in the mix, but I was pretty sure they couldn't cuss Majors out, but this one just had, and the Major took it. Not long after the CW2 left, the Major told our Commander so long and took off.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 28 at 2014 4:33 PM

2014-12-28T16:33:15-05:00

In the Guard, I would have to say that the most difficult is the SSgt (E-5). And only because to make TSgt (E-6) it almost requires an act of God, along with retirements or demotions, alignment of stars and a few other more colorful things to happen. This is because of the way that the rank structure is set up, and the fact that turnover is low (that is a good thing), because the troops stick around. It is not uncommon to retire as a SSgt.

When I was in the Marines, it was the Terminal Lance, hands down.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 28 at 2014 4:46 PM

2014-12-28T16:46:35-05:00

SFC Mark Merino, here's an unembellished true story for you. It was MAR83, and we were headed to the FRG for a "the Russians are coming!" exercise. We boarded a military charter stretch DC-8 (long narrow bodied fuselage) by unit. My unit boarded last, and therefore we went to the very back of the a/c. Back then, you could still smoke on airplanes and the back of the a/c was the smoking area, of course. I was the HHC CO and I was sitting with the Bn CO. He was a smoker, and when we reached altitude, the CO and about thirty others lit up and kept 'em going. I was a nonsmoker and after awhile, I could hardly see across the aisle for the smoke. I could no longer stand it, and went forward to hopefully find another seat.

I found one seat, in between two First Air Cav aviators (both WO1). These two were obviously quite young, and I was a 2nd year captain, with four years enlisted service to boot. They were spread out, with legs hanging over armrests, etc. I said, "I'm sitting in the smoking area, I'm a nonsmoker, and it's killing me. Do you mind if I sit between you?" They both just looked back at me with blank stares like I had three heads, didn't say a word and didn't make a move. I then changed my approach and said, "OK, here's the way it's going to be. Both of you move your legs and arms. I'm sitting right there." They immediately made way and I sat between them. Needless to say, none of us became buddies on that flight, but I thought they could have handled the situation much differently.

Ironically, there were two CW4s in HHC with me. They were both superstars. One in particular, was twenty years older, and became my good friend and mentor. In fact, I received much better counsel from him than I did the CO, XO or the S3. Although now deceased, I can still hear him saying, "Steve, you sure you want to do that?" I'd respond, "I don't know Tom, I'll think about it." I found that taking his advice was the right thing to do almost 100% of the time.
Considering the photo at the beginning of your discussion and the fact that you're Cav, I thought you might like the story!
Another 1LT Sandy Annala!

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Dec 28 at 2014 6:34 PM

2014-12-28T18:34:13-05:00

Majors....... yes I was one of them. They have no authority, have puffed up attitudes, do only what the CO/CG tells them to, are not encouraged to have any ideas/initiative, and generally are miserable until they make LTC. Of course I was never like that (not) ....... I couldn't even stand myself.

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Dec 29 at 2014 3:34 AM

2014-12-29T03:34:01-05:00

I would say anyone who is ROAD... Retired on active duty, those basically counting down the days till they are out and not giving 100% all the way through...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 9:31 AM

2014-12-29T09:31:49-05:00

depends on the person your dealing with, not the rank........having said that, definitely MAJs.lol

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 29 at 2014 9:46 AM

2014-12-29T09:46:32-05:00

Peers at all levels.
At PLDC it was fellow specialist
At BNOC it was fellow Staff Sergeants
At ANOC it was fellow Sargent First class
At the Division Staff level it was fellow Sergeants Major ......and Majors ......lol.. Must be something about the "Major"

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Dec 29 at 2014 10:13 AM

2014-12-29T10:13:18-05:00

Marine Sergeants who happen to be selected for promotion. Suddenly "Staff Sergeant Select" becomes a rank. I think the paygrade associated with it is E-5&1/2.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 10:31 AM

2014-12-29T10:31:38-05:00

On the officer side of the house it is pretty easily 1Lts because they now just enough to be dangerous and wield a little bit of power to execute the danger.

On the enlisted side it is E-6/TSgts and for much the same reason. They are for the most part our technical experts in most career fields so they know enough to be dangerous if going off on their own, and they wield a certain amount of power over a select group of subordinates.

Response by CMC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 10:36 AM

2014-12-29T10:36:53-05:00

In my experience, OCS O3's who never made it passed E5 in the enlisted world and haven't matured enough to handle themselves, (ie, 30 and below) every one of them have had some kind of "screw the enlisted" complex that has ruined unit morale!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 10:48 AM

2014-12-29T10:48:49-05:00

Navy Chiefs... according to those that I have met and worked along side of, "Chief" > SFC even though they are the same rank.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 11:25 AM

2014-12-29T11:25:12-05:00

I would honestly say that I believe that CPL is the hardest rank;
-belong to NCO Corps, and have the duties of an NCO but paid as a SPC
-Everyone expects you know know your job to perfection but they don't think your good enough because your "only a CPL"
-E-4's don't respect you as much because you are the same pay grade
-And last but not least some E-5's believe your not good enought.
That is just my experience through the years. Never have been one but was around a couple

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Dec 29 at 2014 6:19 PM

2014-12-29T18:19:13-05:00

Terminal SFC E-7s. Prick enough to make the rank, not smart enough to make E8 or 9. Get mad if anyone lower knows anything they don't. In the Army, these guys excelled at screwing with people below them, demoralizing them, and trying to get stuff on them. Ex Chemical Corps E-5.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 6:32 PM

2014-12-29T18:32:09-05:00

Personally, it was E-7. In the Joint world, there were many I had to deal with and a good portion of them were difficult to deal with. I don't know if it was because of being the lowest rank of SNCO (or Chiefs for the Navy/ Coasties) and them wanting to feel relevant or what.

I think a large portion of them were micro-managers and couldn't leave being a technician behind.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 8:47 AM

2014-12-30T08:47:14-05:00

The biggest problems I always had were SNCOs. There were plenty of great ones...but there are always a few that think that if they are correcting you for anything, customs and courtesies go right out the window.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-01-07T20:09:25-05:00

Those damn E5 Buck Sergeants.....LOL

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 9 at 2015 8:36 AM

2015-01-09T08:36:09-05:00

E-8 1st Sgt's, they always think they're above the UCMJ. I've met some great ones, but of all the ranks I had issues with as an NCO 1st Sgt's were the worst.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 14 at 2015 11:07 PM

2015-01-14T23:07:14-05:00

Senior NCO s.... MSG and SGM... And for some reason... MAJs.

As 1SG Pete Marcell and I have been an HHC 1SG for a brigade... It was like pulling freaking teeth to get support from my brothers in Arms.

Then the MAJs. They thought they had a say so on everything in DISCOM and would try to run rough shod cover my CO. I had to execute an end around with the DISCOM XO to put the MAJs in check and give my CO some breathing room.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Jan 14 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-01-14T23:32:03-05:00

E-8 MSG assigned to battalion HQ.

I could go with just about any rank, but I'll start with that one.

Here is my reasoning: the "inspector NCO" rank. You know, the guy who has a physical profile limiting his ability to do the "real" job, or the BOLO who managed to make the rank, but no CO would accept him as 1SG. He feels the need to prove himself every time he conducts his inspection, and does so by writing pages of problems that need to be corrected. Too bad 2/3 of the problems are nonexistent or invalid.

One of my first encounters with one of these was one month into a new duty assignment AND a new position (dispatcher). He writes three pages on a legal pad of problems, and every time I questioned one he responded, "Look it up."

Fast forward a couple of months, and the PL gives me the list and instructs me to correct the problems. When asked for further guidance, she told me to use the regs.

The "problems" on 2 of the 3 pages were bogus.

The next time the "inspector NCO" came for an inspection I was far better prepared. He would cite some "problem" and I'd respond that he was incorrect. When he asked what I meant, I replied, "Look it up."

I'll credit him with one thing: he reinforced the need for me to KNOW the regulations and not rely on others to tell me what they said.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Jan 15 at 2015 2:31 AM

2015-01-15T02:31:20-05:00

Academy O-1's and 2's fresh from NNPT Prototype. Ring-knockers were THE. WORST. EVER.

Too many of them still believed that enlisted couldn't be trusted AND that being USNA made them privileged. Usually the CPOs calibrated them, but for a month or two they were as irritating as an ingrown hair inside your nose...

Sorry for the visual, but it was necessary to fully illustrate the depth of my disdain...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 11:35 AM

2015-01-15T11:35:13-05:00

In my experience I would have to say easily the O1 rank. Being prior enlisted I knew better and actually listened to my NCOs to become educated, not only did I cross ranks I crossed branches. Going from Marine Corps enlisted infantry to Army transportation officer is a huge hurdle and I knew next to nothing about the Army. Thankfully I used my enlisted knowledge to know to shut up when needed and learn from my awesome NCOs. It has helped me become the officer i am now and couldn't have done it without them. In my BOLC course there were plenty of O1s who thought they knew it all, I enjoyed watching the events unfold. They were much more approachable to some critique and mentoring once they fell flat on their faces.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Jan 15 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-01-15T11:44:45-05:00

CSMs... hands down.

Response by SSG John M. made Jan 15 at 2015 10:53 PM

2015-01-15T22:53:29-05:00

Next one up

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jan 16 at 2015 2:18 AM

2015-01-16T02:18:47-05:00

The one of someone you knew of the same rank and was friends with who just got promoted and is now to good for you.

That rank.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 8:02 AM

2015-01-16T08:02:42-05:00

I'd have to say O-1 - O-3. But not in all cases. I've found that young officers tend to make poor leadership decisions based on their new found "power" and try to answer technical questions that they do not have the knowledge on.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 9:58 PM

2015-01-19T21:58:28-05:00

Pilots....hands down, regardless of branch of service, they are an unique lot of characters! All I can say is Crew Rest!!!

Response by PO1 Lori McIntyre made Jan 20 at 2015 1:37 AM

2015-01-20T01:37:07-05:00

PO First Class being invited to dance (Making Board), not getting ask to dance (making Chief Select).

Response by 1SG David Niles made Jan 23 at 2015 7:41 PM

2015-01-23T19:41:24-05:00

SPC.E-4, because they know enough to be dangerous, but it is hard to convince them that they still have crap to learn. Oh, sorry, Stuff to learn. They are like teenages, you need to give them something to be in charge of, while they still think they know everything. :-)

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 23 at 2015 11:00 PM

2015-01-23T23:00:12-05:00

I love that picture!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 11:45 AM

2015-01-24T11:45:58-05:00

Enlisted, SGM without time as 1SG. Mad at the world necause they can't get CSM.
Warrant Officers, CW2 and all pilots. Have rank, authority, and are becoming Officers instead of the NCO they used to be.
Officer, Major. Used to be in command of a company, now they are stuck in S_. The have no real authority unless the old man is out. Then they try to change the world for the day.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jan 24 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-01-24T17:17:31-05:00

SFC Mark Merino, in my opinion it was E-7 in the Army, a lot of Seniors feel like their above the regulation and don't have to follow the regulation or listen to their subordinates concerns. It was always a hassle to communicate amongst the E-7 peer group. I spent 7 years and 8 months time in grade. It was a challenge for me in my opinion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-01-24T20:50:37-05:00

The buck sergeant. E-5. They are still with the troops doing everything like a private but playing the leadership role when needed. NCO's...back bone of the army.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-01-24T22:17:25-05:00

I would say Corporal which is the only rank in history that never changed.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Jan 24 at 2015 10:24 PM

2015-01-24T22:24:59-05:00

I have to say the CSM. Either the best or worst person to work with. Everyone is too scared to tell them how they really feel, expecting the magic E-9 ESPN to give them all the answers due to their extensive experience. Don't get me wrong, CSMs are almost always outstanding individuals who have earned their positions by being great at what they do. They are not, however, infallible. If you should dare speak your mind, you can quickly figure out if they find a fresh thought valuable to the organization, or if they really just want a person that shakes their head yes all the time and agrees with whatever comes out of their face without question. I've worked for both...

That said, I just can't be a yes man. Don't ask if you don't want to hear what I think. All I can promise is that if I give you an answer, it will be based upon some solid regulation or valid study. Otherwise, I'll shut up & shake my head yes until I have something better.

Response by MSgt Chris Adams made Jan 24 at 2015 11:09 PM

2015-01-24T23:09:56-05:00

Captains who pulled O-1s away from NCOs showing him what he was responsible for, because he asked. That captain always rubbed me the wrong way lol

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 25 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-01-25T12:31:54-05:00

Sorry LCpl's......I had to.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-01-25T14:45:13-05:00

I'm not sure, but I do know - FOR SURE - that it's not warrant officers, SFC Mark Merino!

Response by CW2 James Lambert made Jan 25 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-01-25T15:00:47-05:00

CW2 AH1G pilot, love the 1st CAV. Germany Oh58 Uh1s The Warrant Officer 18 to 19 years with the wisdom of a 50 year old. Best rank in any service gotta love the WOs

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 8 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-07-08T13:15:31-04:00

Sergeant Major's not CSM's just Sergeant Major aka Spec-9's, run into a few who I have tried to figure out what they are really doing.