Religious expression or atrocity?

CH (COL) Geoff Bailey — Fri, 15 May 2015 19:51:05 -0400

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/05/15/group-wants-two-star-court-martialed-for-speech/27317903/

Are speeches like this really a problem? Or, is the MRFF just looking for reasons to attack? Would you be offended at a volunteer event if a senior official gave his or her testimony?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 7:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:10 -0400

They can be a problem if they are to a captive audience, in this case however I believe MRFF is overreacting. As long as it's a religious event where attendance is voluntary, he should be free to expound on his religious beliefs as much as he wants.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 7:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 19:57:52 -0400

Wow. It's like people are looking for things to be offended about. If anyone wants to pray for me to receive guidance/direction/motivation from a higher power, I'll take it. I'll take all the help I can get. Whether I believe in said deity or not.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 15 at 2015 7:55 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 15 May 2015 19:55:52 -0400

He really shouldn't have been there in uniform. Other than that, it was a religious event, so the god stuff is to be expected. He should be reprimanded for inappropriate use of the uniform, but that's about it...

Response by SGT Kevin Brown made May 15 at 2015 8:11 PM

SGT Kevin Brown — Fri, 15 May 2015 20:11:43 -0400

The MRFF is wrong here. Regardless of his rank or affiliation no service member should ever be denied the right to freely express their beliefs. At the same time, those without said beliefs should be excused from any and all religious related activities. The 1st Amendment still applies and no laws, not even in the military, can infringe on religous freedom. That was what our country was founded on.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 15 at 2015 8:32 PM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Fri, 15 May 2015 20:32:09 -0400

religion is the single most dividing and derisive thing going in the world today...more people have been killed though out history, in the name of god, then for any other reason. once people understand that our "GOD" is no more powerful or alive then say...Zeus or Horace...the world will be a much better place

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 8:41 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 20:41:36 -0400

I have seen this time and time again with the MRFF. It seems as though they are going out of their way to competely remove any individuals ability to openly celebrate or practice their own religion. I myself am not a Christian, but I have no problem with anyone recognizing their God as a driving influence in the life or career, more power to them. When anyone attempts to limit the ability to express or practice your religion, they are essentially attempting to remove one of your basic rights. For those that tout freedom, why are they always so quick to limit the freedoms of others?

Response by SCPO John Croix made May 15 at 2015 9:27 PM

SCPO John Croix — Fri, 15 May 2015 21:27:57 -0400

This speech is not a problem. There has been an attack on Christians in the military and in the world for some time now. I don't understand it. If you don't believe there is a God, why do you care what I believe.

Take his speech and for every time he says God insert Allah, and for every time he says Jesus insert Mohamed - now do you think there would be the same out cry.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 15 at 2015 9:53 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Fri, 15 May 2015 21:53:07 -0400

I am surprised that Maj. Gen. Craig Olson was in uniform at the National Day of Prayer Task Force event. If it was the National Prayer Breakfast in D.C. it would make sense for him to be in uniform. The open hostility to people in the military who are conservative believers has been going on openly for some time. If Maj. Gen. Craig Olson was chief of chaplains Mr. Weinstein might have given him some slack; but, probably not.
Maj. Gen. Craig Olson must have known what he was letting himself in for. He decided to publicly credit his and my Lord and Savior for his skill and talents with what he seems to have accomplished on his own while in uniform of a 2-star general.
I hope this is a sign that the USAF will allow public declarations of faith. It wasn't that long ago that the USAF Academy was coming out against proselytizing.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 3:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 15:31:17 -0400

I hear Officers often talking about their personal beliefs, that they thank god, etc. I'm not religious, what he is well within his rights. Its not like hes shooting bibles from a bazooka and telling everyone they're going to hell.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made May 16 at 2015 8:13 PM

SFC Walt Littleton — Sat, 16 May 2015 20:13:52 -0400

Preach On Sir Brother!!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 8:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 20:16:29 -0400

The only thing that concerns me here how he repeatedly says he has no ability on his own. It worries me when people have the inability to recognize their own abilities and strengths.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 10:38 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 22:38:17 -0400

Just another attempt to slowly degrade the morals of Americans.

Does it matter if he wants to thank God or this Mom and Dad.....no

Belief in God has helped many people progress forward in life. He is neither recommending or not recommending you do as he has done....he is simply sharing what worked for him and putting thanks where he feels it belongs.

People need to understand that it's ok to believe in God and draw strength from that belief.

We all don't have to be atheist .

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 12:01 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 May 2015 00:01:54 -0400

His name is awesome too (Olson) and I see that they spelled it with an "e" and an "o". That's the atrocity here. the EEEEEEEE.

Okay, I am fine, back to our regularly scheduled programming. :)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 12:03 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 May 2015 00:03:43 -0400

Also, I think atrocity is the wrong word here. When I think atrocity, i think holocaust, rowanda, Sierra Leone...not someone talking about God. Maybe inappropriate is a better word for the topic

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 17 at 2015 12:19 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Sun, 17 May 2015 00:19:48 -0400

MRFF is IMO a band of disgruntled SM's with a can of JP-4, cut barrels, out houses, and stirring poles.

Response by SPC David S. made May 17 at 2015 2:29 AM

SPC David S. — Sun, 17 May 2015 02:29:31 -0400

Really, they're getting butt hurt because he spoke highly of his religion at a prayer event? They're just looking for reason to gripe, in my honest opinion.

Response by PO2 Josh Rymer made May 17 at 2015 10:18 PM

PO2 Josh Rymer — Sun, 17 May 2015 22:18:57 -0400

When I was in I would have not payed much attention to it, but since I have gotten out I have turned my life back over to God. And I belief is if the muslims in the military and the Jewish people in the military can grow their beards and wear a yamaka and a turbin, then I think that anyone can speak their beliefs, as long as your not forcing it in people. I do belive in asking because you never know if God is working on their heart, and that might be all they need is just to know some one loves them. But if we "DEFEND" the rights of the people, then why can we have rights? Just because we are in uniform? So just some cloth can take your rights away? And a badge can grant you extra rights? If it I a unalienable right then everyone has a right, and if some one is offended then leave. I knew somebody who would watch a show on TV and sit and complain the whole time, if you don't like it change the channel! Same thing if life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 10:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 May 2015 22:30:33 -0400

If Craig Olson was invited to speak, by all means, he should feel free to say what he likes. But if "Maj. Gen. Craig Olson" is what it said on the invitation, in my opinion, this is not acceptable.

I don't know that I think speeches "like this" are a problem, but I do think speeches espousing a particular religious (or political) position, while in uniform or while acting in an official capacity, or while acting in an unofficial capacity specifically as a representative of government or military, are on the edge of being a problem. And speeches crediting or blaming god, God, gods, or Gods for the success or failure of military missions, especially at the expense (or implied expense) of training or skill, are definitely a problem.

Think about the ramification of statements like "I have no ability to do that, no training to do that. God did that.", and decide if THAT is how you want the leadership of the most powerful military in the world deciding things for themselves and others and generally running things.

And, from the article, I cannot tell enough to make a call on MRFF, but in principle I think they are correct.

DISCLAIMER: All information I have on this event is from the article and opinions stated above are based on information contained in the article.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 6:24 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 18:24:37 -0400

This is a duplicate thread. Didn't this discussion already happen?

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jun 17 at 2015 5:25 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:25:24 -0400

CH (MAJ) Geoff Bailey, Yes Court Martial, each side will argue their case before the Supreme Authority, now how do you summon Him to serve in such trial? Wonder how long is that wait?

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 19 at 2015 3:13 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 03:13:22 -0400

I'm not a religious person but I think blasting him for this is just a bunch of other not religious people being butt hurt. If he in his own life feels God was there for him, then so be it, not for me or anyone else to say and if he wants to thank God, so what, it happens on awards shows all the time. That's the thing for me about being an atheist, other atheists annoy me with just how easy they get annoyed.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 29 at 2015 4:47 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 16:47:18 -0400

Mikey disappoints me more and more each day. There was a time when we talked a good bit, even interviewed him for our blog. I really believe he started out for all the right reasons. He used to put it that if you were a member of a minority faith, or even a Christian insufficiently bathed in the blood of the lamb, that there were people, as well as some denominations with an agenda, to leverage military position against targeted groups.
But when I read that the MRFF has gone after this general, or when he pissed me off a few years ago when he went after a friend running Fort Benning's Jewish religious programming, I realize just how far away he's gotten from his intended purpose. The MRFF has an abysmal legal track record with very, very, very few court wins. They stay relevant for fundraising by attacking and shaming and bullying via news outlets. G-d, I wish they'd get wise to the MRFF's modus operandi. I don't believe he's even an enemy of Christianity as some say. I think Mikey enjoys the validation he gets from media circles, but after a while, the if you're not with us, you're against us crap gets really tired.

And we're lucky on Rally Point to be insulated from the legion of people who will pollute comment sections and social media, or even the bully pulpit of sympathetic media, like Huffington Post, backing Mikey to the point of absurdity.

I hope this general succeeds in sticking out the limited attention span accorded to these issues, and doesn't mind being used as a fundraiser bullet point for the MRFF. I'd hate to be so used, but it is what it is.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 4:49 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:49:13 -0500

First of all, I want to point out that I am NOT a Christian by any definition of the term. However, that being said, I see absolutely no problem with his speech. I actually followed up and listened to the speech in it's entirety. And it was perfectly acceptable. He was not pushing his religion on others, nor impeding their free exercise of religion. He was simply giving credit to the deity that he believes gave him the ability to accomplish astounding feats. And even as someone who vehemently opposes the Christian Church (I have no qualms with the teachings, only the practices of the majority), I see absolutely no problem with his speech.