Satire: Should Lieutenants be allowed to attend Ranger School?

2015-02-28T08:20:34-05:00

With all the buzz about females attending Ranger School and all the anger about standards this and standards that, should we let LTs attend?

I mean they usually recycle every phase costing taxpayers thousands of dollars. Nine times out of ten they are the chow thieves that steal their "buddies" MREs. They buy Ranger license plates and stickers for their vehicles so everyone knows they're a "Ranger". They are in Ranger School for so long that when they get to their first duty assignment we have to teach them how to properly wear their uniforms and not "ranger roll" their headgear. The training schedules they turn in to their commanders consist of "survival training" and they ask if they can use unit funds to purchase live rabbits and chickens. They are always "tab checking" everyone making Soldiers think that they have a sleeve pocket unsecure. When it is time to issue an OPORD to their platoon they are unable to unless, they have their Ranger Handbook. They make their entire platoon buy a Ranger Handbook (even married PV2 with three kids). They get the entire platoon lost during the FTX.

I think the Army should seriously consider not allowing attendance to Ranger School for officers until the grade of O-3. Although it would cause Ranger Joe's to lose a large customer base it would save the Army a lot of money and the rest of us a lot of time.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Feb 28 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-02-28T08:21:40-05:00

Oh boy! :-)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-02-28T08:30:45-05:00

I'm just here to read the comments.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 8:45 AM

2015-02-28T08:45:54-05:00

Epically awesome question!! About sprayed coffee all over my iPad! LMAO

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 9:36 AM

2015-02-28T09:36:58-05:00

(CAUTION, serious reply below) :-)

I am an Armor/Cavalryman, but as a new 2LT wanted to attend Ranger School. During my time at the Armor Officer Basic Course at Ft. Knox, myself and a few other brave souls trained and prepared to go. During our final unofficial "pre-Ranger assessment" some of us were told we could attend, others (like me) weren't ready. (I don't remember anyone going anyway.)
I arrived at my first duty assignment and had the opportunity to serve as a Mechanized Infantry PL for 6 months before taking over as a Tank PL. After 7 months, there was a need for Mech PLs, so I volunteered and got to be a PL for another Mech Infantry Platoon for another 6 months. So, I had 13 months as a combat arms leader when I went back to the Infantry where I met a fellow LT who had been commissioned 6 months before me, but was just arriving at the unit due to going through all the schools at Benning (he was IN) including multiple recycles at Ranger School (and he had not completed).
Was I better than him? I don't know, but I did have much more experience leading Soldiers in combat arms formations including the old-style NTC Rotations.
(This officer went back to Ranger School as a senior LT/CPT and completed the course, and I remain friends with him to this day, but it has always made me wonder about the time he 'lost' in school/training while I was leading Soldiers.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 9:49 AM

2015-02-28T09:49:10-05:00

Okay. First things first. The Bad Luck Brian theme was used incorrectly. That's just the geek in me.

Second, I believe any leader that wants to go and proves himself to go, should be allowed to go. Isn't Ranger School 'thee' ultimate leadership school? Either way, if any individual proves they can meet, at the very least, the physical standard, then why do we get caught up on branch or rank?

It seems silly to me. Lead, lead, or go home.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-02-28T12:21:28-05:00

I know you said "Satire" CSM Private RallyPoint Member, but your post is spot on and LTC Private RallyPoint Member pretty much proved the point with his own personal situation.

I wonder how many go through, get recycled multiple times and still not complete the course successfully? As CSM Oldsen stated, the young LT believes that RANGER School is the pinnacle of all that is Military.

Now, I am not going to state a specific rank before attendance but I would say at least a year on the line to prove that you deserve to go. Being an Officer should not allow you to automatically attend. Are enlisted going straight out of training? If so I am sure it is very few.

I can tell you from an AIRBORNE perspective that the "TAB" does not make you any less fearful of that door while in flight! It does not make them a confident Jump Master either. I think they should up the jump numbers before attendance to the Jump Master Course as well.

I worked with 20TH Special Forces and candidates who wanted to go through were trained for several months before they were allowed to go through selection. Then when they returned from selection we continued to train them before they returned for the "Q Course." Our Unit/BN had over a 98% success rate.

The bottom line is that anyone wanting to attend a course like RANGER School should get some Leadership time under their belt before being afforded the opportunity to go. Maybe even have a training program like I discussed. Who knows how much this could save in terms of time and money.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 1:48 PM

2015-02-28T13:48:43-05:00

This is all I have to say.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-02-28T13:49:51-05:00

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-02-28T13:53:56-05:00

Sanford weighs in

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 5:14 AM

2015-03-01T05:14:16-05:00

Response by SPC Richard White made Mar 2 at 2015 4:10 AM

2015-03-02T04:10:46-05:00

I would say yes, I went to N.M.M.I. and yes back in my day they sent cadets to Ranger School and those who went became Lts

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 9:23 AM

2015-03-15T09:23:54-04:00

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:56 AM

2015-03-26T06:56:56-04:00

Heck, I even knew a chaplain with a ranger tab. The tab doesn't matter much to me, the scroll does.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 15 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-04-15T09:05:45-04:00

If I was CSA (and appears that will not happen), I would require every 2LT to complete Ranger School after BOLC/OBC. Jest all you want, but it would make them all better in the short term, and hence long term.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 24 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-04-24T14:47:29-04:00

So they think they are "2LT Generals of the Army" lol

Response by MSG Judith Schiavone Ramirez (Bemis) made Jun 18 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-06-18T09:52:03-04:00

I remember the shouts of joy when they changed the allocations for slots to no more COSCOM commandos and combat arms only.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Aug 21 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-08-21T16:54:24-04:00

You mean Butter Bars, but keep in mind that some Butter Bars were prior service, so be careful because we have your bad habits, skills, and a wicked sense of humor. I knew an E-6 that made that mistake and the snake I picked up and threw at him made him see the light.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 1 at 2024 6:40 AM

2024-01-01T06:40:24-05:00

Now I assume that the good CSM is pulling someone's chain, but I believe you will find if you look at the history of Ranger School, the school was developed to train Infantry Officers. They were the largest group of graduates until the 75th was formed, but I believe that even today, the 75th and Infantry Officer Basic are the two largest groups.