Saw an ROTC cadet drinking at a bar in Downtown LA. Do the same 670-1 rules apply?

2017-04-28T15:30:39-04:00

The answer may be obvious to some, but as a reservist, I do not think about Army regs 24/7 like I did when I was active. I was in downtown LA last night when I stumbled upon what appeared to be stolen valor, but really was an ROTC cadet celebrating his soon-to-be commission in ACUs. He said that since the sun was down he was allowed to drink and not wear a PC.. does this sound remotely correct?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 3:33 PM

2017-04-28T15:33:33-04:00

That is entirely INCORRECT. He was more wrong than a 3 dollar bill.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 28 at 2017 3:42 PM

2017-04-28T15:42:39-04:00

I don't know if it has changed but up till 2010 you were not allowed to be in off post establishments whose primary function was the sale of alcohol while in ACUs/ BDU's. Those were local policy letters that I remember being common to FT Benning, Sill, Hood, Lewis, Jackson and Leonard Wood.
The PC or (Beret at that time) was/ is always worn with the ACUs when not under cover (talking roof, not secret squirrel) that is in 670-1 and hasn't changed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 3:43 PM

2017-04-28T15:43:04-04:00

One of the officers in my last reserve unit was an ROTC instructor and he would have lost it over that.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 28 at 2017 4:25 PM

2017-04-28T16:25:21-04:00

Damn, days like this I wish I hadn't retired. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Cadets fell into that whole rank structure, somewhere below Warrants???

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Apr 28 at 2017 4:59 PM

2017-04-28T16:59:41-04:00

Unless something has drastically changed since I retired, that cadet was most definitely WRONG! Even us Fly Boys, Zipper Suited Sun Gods, Chair Force, or whatever other endearing terms you might have for us had policies prohibiting the wear of ANY uniform in an establishment that primarily served alcohol. Time of day was of no relevance.

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Apr 28 at 2017 5:00 PM

2017-04-28T17:00:37-04:00

I always thought a good rule of thumb was to change to civilian attire if not going home or to work. having a beer means changing out of uniform

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 5:15 PM

2017-04-28T17:15:38-04:00

No not even remotely correct. I think he has ACUs confused with a dress uniform. Hours of darkness has no bearing on the wearing of the ACU cap in a garrison environment. Cadets are expected to uphold the same standards as every other service member-especially in uniform as it represents us all. If he was about to commission there is especially no excuse since that means he was a contracted MS IV and should definitely know better. You can eat at an establishment that serves alcohol in while in ACUs, but not if the primary purpose of the establishment is to serve alcohol.

I would take his name down and respectfully notify his cadre in the ROTC program.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 6:36 PM

2017-04-28T18:36:07-04:00

Finally, a question I can answer! Cadets are under CCR 670-1 (basically AR 670-1, but modified for our purposes). I can tell you definitively that this cadet was all kinds of wrong. First off... he should not have been in that uniform. Cadets are only authorized to wear our uniforms while:
(1) Assembling for the purpose of military instruction.
(2) Engaging in the military instruction of a cadet corps or similar organization.
(3) Traveling to and from the institution in which enrolled.
(4) Visiting a military station for participation in military drills or exercises.
(5) Attending other functions as authorized by the Battalion Commander for such wear.

Second, we don't get to roll our sleeves. Our commanding general (of Cadet Command) said no to that reaaallll fast.

Third, the PC is to be worn when not under cover at all times.

If he was about to commission, he's a senior cadet... he should know better.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 8:34 PM

2017-04-28T20:34:30-04:00

No. To my understanding the whole after 1800 applies to military functions like a ball or similar activities. Regardless if the sun was down or not, he was at a bar in uniform. Not ok.

Response by Cadet SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 9:51 PM

2017-04-28T21:51:53-04:00

100% NOT correct. All cadets, non-contracted and contracted, must follow all regulations. Uniform codes and codes of conduct. With this, he's breaking both. This kind of situation could (probably should) put him up for disenrollment and take his commission away.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 11:25 PM

2017-04-28T23:25:51-04:00

I would call BS. Where's his flag? It also looks like he has a combat patch. He could be SMP so he would definitely know better. Should have respectfully questioned him.

And yes, Guard/Reserves has to follow all AR's when in uniform or on duty status.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 29 at 2017 2:13 AM

2017-04-29T02:13:30-04:00

Nope, he is 100% in the wrong here. BTW, last time I was in the National Guard was 1984 and back then the rule was wear of the uniform only driving to and from Guard drill, if you have to run ONE errand on the way, that's possibly OK. BDU's come off once home. So being in uniform anywhere outside the Armory unless it is an errand on the way home was against the regs. Pretty sure that has not changed. Definitely drinking alchol while in uniform out in the civi world is against the regs. So I guess the question is he a SMP Cadet or just ROTC.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 29 at 2017 7:05 AM

2017-04-29T07:05:22-04:00

Two things
The first thing affected with alcohol use is Judgment, so not much good was going to be heard from that cadet, nor for him in offering help.
Second thing....ask a Cadet if "it" what ever it is they claim does not apply to them is really not applicable, how about you, I and your PMS have a chat about it? If the senior military instructor were here ( thats the senior NCO in each schools cadet command program) would they say "it" dos not apply?
How about that senior OPS Sergeant (often an infantry E7) at your schools program...what would he or she say?

Assuming alcohol is not involved, by point 1 or 2 at most you have the cadets attention...If it gets to point 3, they are either dense, drunk, or about to kicked from the program anyway and just dont care.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 9:36 AM

2017-04-29T09:36:18-04:00

So he's a cadet way out of regs, and he addresses a Specialist like that?

Pay attention. He's the new leadership.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 6:13 PM

2017-04-29T18:13:52-04:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member the no PC rule is for when you are in dress uniform and in formal attire (bow-tie). Not even sure where that is in regulations but that is what I was told years ago. Never ever in ACUs (who still has those anyway?). This is 100% wrong.

Also, as a Reservist you still are under Army Regulations, particularly in how you wear your uniform.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 11:06 PM

2017-04-29T23:06:54-04:00

I did not go to ROTC period I went to basic training in 1994 as a National Guard E4 at Fort McClellan Alabama period I knew back then as a Drilling reservist that you could not have your cover off outside and that you could not go to a bar and drink though I did see some unscrupulous National Guardsmen do that on their lunch hour during drill. That was then but 23 years later as others here up said the rules have not changed with the exception of the patrol cap again unless you were part of a special operations unit that's still wore the Beret like civil Affairs Airborne units.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 1:15 AM

2017-04-30T01:15:17-04:00

Thank you all for the clarification. I really appreciate it. I am fully aware of the Army regs including 670-1, but I was just wondering if cadets fall under the same guidelines. I just have never seen something like this before and was taken aback by it. I did make the correction and informed the future officer that his decision to celebrate in uniform was not ok, but he argued by stating he was in the right because it was nighttime. He further articulated how he was not doing anything wrong since he was not in the actual army yet. Had this been a traditionally ranked SM, I indubitably would have known this was not right; however, him being a cadet made me second guess myself. Since I know that some cadets are contractually signed/not signed, I was not sure what regs they fall under. Once again, thank you all for the clarification.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 3:05 AM

2017-04-30T03:05:31-04:00

Straight up, that's the wrong answer & unbecoming if an Officer. If this cadet is trying to get to that Officer level, they need to do the right thing 24/7.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 1:15 PM

2017-05-03T13:15:17-04:00

It depends. As an Army Officer (that earned my commission through Army ROTC), I know this much. If the cadet in question is already contracted (usually his/her Junior year of college) or has a scholarship through Army ROTC, they are subject to punishment accordingly. I've seen cadets kicked out of the Army ROTC program that fit this category. They are then (depending on what rule(s) was broken) entered into the US Army as a junior enlisted soldier (as punishment and to offset any cost and or money that cadet received while in the program). Someone should've corrected that cadet on the spot, as he (cadet) should've already known better regarding what he can do in and out of uniform.

Response by Cadet SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 12:44 AM

2017-05-04T00:44:15-04:00

He was definitely wrong. Cadets wear their covers at all times unless instructed not to during training, or indoors/under cover. They also should not be wearing ACUs outside of training, especially not out drinking (with the sleeves rolled. Seriously?)
I'm just angry that A. He didn't know better, or B. He did, and just didn't care. He's about to be an Officer; he better get himself squared away quickly.

Response by PFC Leander Yazzie made May 6 at 2017 3:42 AM

2017-05-06T03:42:37-04:00

Negative! That ROTC cadet was acting like he back on the block, in fucking sorryass JROTC!
Fucking Damn shame man.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made May 6 at 2017 5:38 PM

2017-05-06T17:38:09-04:00

What??? This is a cadet, he doesn't know up from down yet. I'd hammer the little shit then call his rotc advisor and let them hammer him too.

Response by Cadet 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2017 6:14 PM

2017-07-20T18:14:19-04:00

If I am not in a ROTC classroom/ going to said class or other military training event I do not wear my uniform.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Aug 28 at 2019 1:39 PM

2019-08-28T13:39:57-04:00

A soldier drunk in uniform.