SCENARIO: Accountability Situation

2014-05-29T08:23:54-04:00

SO you are the 1SG and receive a phone call from one of your PSGs early in the morning before first formation. He tells you the roads are a little bad due to inclement weather and he is on his way but will be running late. You have to have your PERSTAT submitted to BN before he will actually arrive (or his estimate), so that they can submit on up the chain.

What do you do?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 8:28 AM

2014-05-29T08:28:18-04:00

The PSG is accounted for on PERSTAT. Not AWOL, or sick call, or leave, etc....then the PSG receives a verbal counseling, unless this has been a trend with this individual.....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 9:38 AM

2014-05-29T09:38:49-04:00

You send up an accurate report. Nothing against the PSG but he/she should know to plan for situation like increment weather. However, if the road status was black and considered unsafe then that might be an excuse. In the end, you could always report to higher and explain the situation if they question the report you sent up.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 5:35 PM

2014-05-29T17:35:04-04:00

X number present, 1 accounted for. I wouldn't claim he was present because if something happens , well that would just be bad! But at least I can say I've spoken to him if anyone wants to dig deep.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made May 29 at 2014 5:45 PM

2014-05-29T17:45:25-04:00

PERSTAT= personnel status report. His status is he is running late. He's just not present, he is not missing. Just like someone who is at sick call instead of formation. Seems simple to me.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made May 29 at 2014 5:46 PM

2014-05-29T17:46:10-04:00

To start with, I would tell him to arrive alive and not drive beyond his capabilities based on the hazard.

I would not mark him failure to report/repair (FTR) I would account for him (on the status report) as present. I would do the same for any member of the unit.

Specific to this scenario, the PSG is one of the most important positions within the company. If his integrity were in question, he wouldn't be one of my PSGs! Once he made it to the unit, I would discuss the way ahead of how he would correct his performance and reiterate the importance of him being present and in front of his formation....I trust this would not become a habit.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made May 29 at 2014 7:59 PM

2014-05-29T19:59:17-04:00

SFC Gilley

I would send up the report that all of my Soldiers are accounted for, too easy.

I wouldn't even verbally counsel the PSG because, assuming he is generally squared away, it wouldn't be necessary. He's a PSG. He already knows what he needs to do. Just my two cents.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 8:23 PM

2014-05-29T20:23:58-04:00

I think everyone can agree that PERSTAT verbiage needs to replace Present with accounted for, or at least add accounted for as an option.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 10:53 PM

2014-05-29T22:53:58-04:00

How can you accurately have 100% accountability, if it is before your accountability formation? If you have to have your PERSTATS in before your first formation, how are you able to maintain 100% before you have eyes on? Does your BN/BDE mandate that you call every single Soldier prior to formation to see if they are alive and what their status is, then it is called to the 1SG to tell them where everyone is at? I would say tell the BN that he is out of ranks, and do necessary paperwork on the PSG.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2014 10:51 AM

2014-05-30T10:51:05-04:00

To me it depends on what time my perstat had to be submitted by. I know in my last unit the orderly room had to have it submitted by 0930. So I would find out what time he will be in and probably call/text him every 20 minutes or so to get his location and time of arrival.
If he makes it in before my perstat is due I would mark him present.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2014 10:46 AM

2014-06-14T10:46:44-04:00

This is one of those times where I would work with my BN S1 Section to let them know the situation. More often than not, they are tracking the weather just like you are and may have similar situations. They may permit the PERSTAT to be a little late to get an accurate depiction of your status for the duty day or they provide you with additional guidance which would be useful.

Safety is number one. Paperwork is secondary. We can always find an appropriate paperwork solution but we can not remove an injury, property damage, or death. I would rather everyone be late than risk someone or something happening.

Response by 1SG Chris Brown made Jun 14 at 2014 11:12 AM

2014-06-14T11:12:58-04:00

SFC Gilley,

It seems like we could "what if" this to death I'm sure. Flipping through a lot of responses on this question seems we have done some of that already. But it almost seems your logic means that any Soldier who is not at my PT formation is reported as something other than present for duty. That means that I can't have a Soldier skip formation and report direct to a different location at a different time. Here in the National Capital Region (NCR), people are all over the place as are the installations. Let's say one of my NCOs is taking a Soldier to an appointment (we'll say TDS since I had that last week) at Fort Myer at 0800 so I tell them not to come to a morning formation at Andrews AFB. I won't physically see the NCO or Soldier that morning but their PSG accounts for them being at their appointment after checking in with them that morning over the phone. Are you telling me they are something other than present for duty just because I haven't physically laid eyes on them?

I know this is a different overall scenario than you present for the discussion, but it goes to the heart of what you're saying is required to call someone present for duty. Even in your scenario, I would assume the PSG would likely arrive prior to submission of the PERSTAT. If he was running a little late because of weather and couldn't get there by 0630 PT formation, why would I assume he was still not going to be around by 0900 when we submit the report? If the weather were that bad, none of us would have come to work in the first place. And when inclement weather does strike an area and the post (or the entire NCR) gets shut down, what is the personnel status for your entire unit? The 1SG obviously can't get eyes-on present for duty status on anyone but as you point out we can't just call everyone accounted for.

I'm sure we could go round and round, back and forth, with different situations, but for this situation I would call the person present for duty. I don't believe my career is on the line for doing so. Once the NCO calls me, he is accounted for and I know he is alive and safe; unless he completely no-shows on me, I'd consider him PDY. If after that, something happens to him, I feel confident explaining to the 15-6 investigating officer why I made the call.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 7:24 AM

2014-11-25T07:24:33-05:00

You report him as "accounted for" and update accordingly if the situation changes.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 10:23 AM

2014-11-29T10:23:31-05:00

Present for duty would be my report and here is why.

You have a soldier who is reporting his situation, you are away of his status and you are basically accepting responsibility that he will arrive in the near future. There appears at this time to be no malicious intent to deceive.

At the same time, he is not at the prescribed pace of duty at the prescribed time which poses a couple of thoughts:

Should you as the 1SG make note of this in writing? Yes
Should you as the 1SG explain in that counseling the situation why you chose to report him as Present 9perhaps based on his flawless record of accountability)? yes

Why should you do this? Well, because even the best PSG can begin to take advantage of a one time occurrence and turn it into a multiple occurrence.

By putting it in writing, you are creating a history..and trust me history is important.

Also, now imagine if that same PSG wanted to write a soldier up for AWOL...but that soldier called in just like the PSG. You as the 1SG can speak with the PSG and remind him of the PSG's situation and ensure that the PSG did his due diligence before that recommendation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 10:27 AM

2014-11-29T10:27:07-05:00

This one is easy, 1SG Private RallyPoint Member.
The Soldier is accounted for, and is in a known location en route to his duty station. My PERSTAT would reflect that.

Normally, the safety of the individual is paramount. I will add an asterisk: if this is a trend and everyone else in the unit has figured out how to get to the unit by planning extra time due to the weather, a counseling is in his future. He is a senior NCO, and barring dangerous conditions and a commanders call for authorized late arrival, I would expect him to be able to plan ahead and avoid tardiness due to inclement weather.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Sep 24 at 2015 8:32 AM

2015-09-24T08:32:58-04:00

I would mark the PSG as absent and contact the CSM and S-1 and advise them of the PSG actual status. I would contact the CSM and S-1 by email and verbally. This way a legal and ethical report is submitted and the PSG status is legally defendable. I would hope that the command climate ethically and morally enables soldiers to do the right things without fear. Have the legal team clarify your question and provide scenarios. This way everyone understands the legal answer.
Look at absenteeism a different way. In the cold war we had two hours to report for some alerts. Vehicles moved out the back gate at the end of that 2-hours. You were on that vehicle with weapon or not. Did not matter if you were on the way or not.