Scenario: You have a friend who's always lying about his/her deployment to look like a badass?

2015-01-03T15:49:09-05:00

Alright so heres the scenario: you have a friend who you've known for the past few years that you deployed with and you spend a lot of this time with this person since you both left the military. Everytime you both go somewhere, he/she brags to store employees, waitresses, anyone who will listen, about how they killed people, got blown up, etc when in reality, their deployment was QUITE the opposite and have no badges, medals as proof to show for it!? And then also blames PTSD for everything? Would you call your friend out and risk losing the friendship? Or would you let them continue to fabricate their story to let them feel like a badass and ignore it? I feel like this is offensive because you have soldiers who experienced things like this and now they have to live with things like PTSD for the rest of their lives. You have those who are truly affected by things like this, and then those that fake it and in this case, the friend who is faking it to feel like a badass overseas.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-01-04T11:53:13-05:00

SPC Stephanie Oanes, we had a soldier that ETS'd from the Army who ended up living with one of his friends who happened to get out of the army shortly after he did. This soldier did the same things that you speak of, however the endstate of this relationship was that the soldier ended shooting his friend and killing him. This friend needs some help or some kind of outlet for these discussions whether or not it is PTSD driven or not.

I think this friend is looking for help, he just doesn't know how to ask for it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/gary-smith-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-2006-shooting-of-fellow-army-ranger/2012/09/19/d2a1885a-01be-11e2-b260-32f4a8db9b7e_story.html

Gary Smith guilty of involuntary manslaughter in 2006 shooting of fellow Army Ranger

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 4 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-01-04T12:05:52-05:00

If it was me, I would just call them out on it. From my view, if I don't, I agreeing with it.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 4 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-01-04T12:59:30-05:00

A few thoughts:
- BLUF: I would correct the friend in private the first time. If it happens again I would correct the friend in public. If the friendship is lost then so be it.
- Generally those who brag about deployments such as the original question either never deployed or saw nothing on their deployment. Those who did see/do things as the above generally do not brag about it in my experience.
- Reason why the above is important is that the fakers take away from those who actually did the things and using PTSD falsely takes away from those who actually have it.
- Lying about deployments can only be fixed one incident at a time unless/until Congress passes some sort of Stolen Valor law. Due to 1st Amendment issues I do not see this happening anytime soon.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 4 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-01-04T13:02:15-05:00

His fables are fiction, and if he is telling it to people that know no better then he is stealing admiration from those that lived those hardships, the Soldiers that deserve the praise.

Best for you to convince him that he ought to accept his service as it was and to be proud that he did serve his country....no reason to be Pinocchio!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-01-04T13:46:14-05:00

They suffer from a very low self-esteem and have never thought for one moment how it affects others and his own credibility.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-01-04T13:49:17-05:00

ME!.... lol. everyone that has been in a little poop down range over exagerates an experience. if he doesnt say that he killed bin laden, what's the point. who really cares. i love hearing stories about a battle, a fight, a mission... but nothing, absolutely nothing, beats the story they tell me about their safe flight home. so if your friend is exagerating a bit to get a little attention, or to get people to laugh, or to make people realize that your unit actually did something they should be proud of, i say let them preach. laugh about it. again, only if it doesnt hurt anyone.

id love to tell you about the time i had Bin Laden in my sights. but i was called by the White House and told to stand down so the Navy Seals can get all the credit. and my roommate woke me up. lol.

finally, one day you will be old and gray. your grandkids and neighborhood kids will ask you about your service. you will exagerate a little just to keep their interest. what you dont realize you are doing is motivating the youth to do something special... something all of us have done on this site. defend our country. good luck with how you approach the situation. i hope you dont lose a friend over something so small.

Response by SGT Graham "Tom" Town made Jan 4 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-01-04T14:18:22-05:00

Hard question to answer. This could be due to what used to be called survivor guilt; or it could be compensation for percieved inadaquacy of the individual while others are lauded as heros. The person is not doing this so that they feel good; they know the truth. They are doing it to increase their worth in the eyes of others. This individual is hurting inside, and outing them publicly would increase that hurt. If they mean something to you, tread very carefully. In any case this person has a real problem and needs professional help.

One last thought. This person is not causing harm to anyone but themselves (as is the case with almost all posers); but they are causing serious harm to their own mental stability. These folks need our help not our scorn as they were damaged by their service. It is different than a lost arm or leg, but it is in some ways just as debilitating. Be kind they are still our Brothers & Sisters and need our support. It does not increase our worth or image to publically insult or demean them.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 4 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-01-04T15:19:55-05:00

I dont think they would be much of a friend, if they lie to themselves 1st and foremost then how strong of a friendship will that be?? How much honesty can you even expect to enjoy with this person?? Are they lying to you about other issues as well???? I think you would be better off holding your morals and beliefs instead of polishing anothers pipe dreams of what could have been.By being present when they are gloating, you are supporting them and therefore just as bad by not saying anything.

Response by SGT Brian Watkins made Jan 4 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-01-04T16:30:21-05:00

No shit, there I was single handedly wrangling a few camels for me and my team to make time from Baghdad to Korean Village before night fall... I had crypto that was a new NSA standard embedded in my molars, it was a Magenta Op. Haji was rolling deep through the terrain, and all we had for weapons were the shabby CRKT knives we found in a munitions factory we just punched into rubble with our bare knuckles. CENTCOM asked us to stop to merc Muqtada Al Sadr on the way, so we obliged quickly and continued on our way. I knew then that after this journey was complete, nothing would ever be the same again. [Hans Zimmer playing in the background]

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 4 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-01-04T17:50:39-05:00

I love the stories that are so full of crap that you can't stand the smell. "No sh!@! There I was.....being awarded the Legion of Honor as a Colonel 1st Class for ripping off Saddam's mustache in 2010 and bin Ladin's mustache in 2014"...........ummmm, what??!!

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jan 4 at 2015 6:31 PM

2015-01-04T18:31:57-05:00

SPC Stephanie Oanes It obviously is affecting your relationship already. Be honest, square her away, and let the chips fall. If the relationship means anything to her, it will end. If it does not, it will end anyway.

We all exaggerate things. It is our nature to make ourselves look cool. It is another matter, in my opinion to tell stories of combat, that are non-existent.

Good luck.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-01-04T18:30:35-05:00

I love these. I deal with these pretty harsh. First, I try to insinuate that they are embellishing and if that doesn't work they will be put in their place.
I have had my challenges in the past with this. I don’t joke about it. It adversely affects many people. You can tell when a soldier has it. I have a soldier in my platoon that has a severe case of PTSD. He is fine but it can flare up. He doesn’t let it cripple him or let it show. So to have a fake, and that is what he is, brag about this is disgusting to me.
When I first got back I had a friend of my wife talk to me about the military. He was deployed to Afghan in 03 as a helicopter refueling at some mega base. Needless to say he didn’t see anything happen. We were talking and he made a reference about how he deals with PTSD and that we know what we been through. I snapped and let him have it. We are still friends but he realized he was being hurtful. He thought he knew but he really didn’t.
That is not a friend. A fake is a fake. If they lie about their service to gain attention how can you trust a person? Would you feel comfortable that they wouldn’t make statements about you just for attention? A person like that is also hurting the credibility of soldiers. People see their BS and think PTSD is not real or is something that they can just over. They think that because they never seen a real case of it due to all the fakes out there. I still don’t sleep well. But people like that just want the attention and the hero factor that comes along with it. If you don’t address it is the same as letting a drunk get a drink.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-01-04T19:43:39-05:00

SPC Stephanie Oanes Before you call your friend out, suggest you bring it up conversationally, not sarcastically or in an accusing manner "why do you do this everywhere we go?" The intent is to get him/her to open up. If the conversation does get going, ask the open end questions that drives the conversation. After (hopefully) you heard it all, then would be the appropriate time for you to let him/her know that it does bother you and that you don't recall the events happening the way (or at all) as they tell it.

Their embellishing and reasoning may be a sign that they do need some help in dealing with what what they really delt with during the deployments you both were on together. Different things affect different people in different ways. Some can handle a lot and some can't handle much at all.

I had a Branch Chief (DA Civilian) (LTC retired) who when he walked into a room and heard someone talking about a past experience, he immediately tried to take it over with a version of how he had done it, something just like it, only better either as an MP and/or Civil Affairs Officer and/or as the night shift Ops Officer at CFIC Hqs or when he was a civilian before entering the Army. I finally went online and purchased a "Bullshit" Button that we placed on the conference table sitting in the middle of our office (3 of us worked in the office). Whenever one or all of us had heard enough, one of us would get up, press the button and it would loudly say "Bullshit". He finally caught on and cut it back a good bit, though he never completely stopped.

In your case, if their deployment tales bother you to the point of it adversely affecting the friendship and cause you to consider to end it, then you should let them know. They will be the one to decide if their grandstanding and desire to "impress" everyone with their embellished tales is more important then the relationship. Hopefully that's not the case.

If I were in your shoes and it was a friend as you state, then I would defintely call them out on it regardless of how they took it. Good luck!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-01-04T20:08:34-05:00

SPC Stephanie Oanes, you deployed together. You shared a common bond, an extended absence from loved ones? You two were together during the good and bad, right?
You need to sit down and talk to her. Have you done it?
It takes a strong person to view their friendship objectively.
And takes approximately 1.2 seconds to say "Shut the fuck up."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-01-04T20:17:13-05:00

You should already know what the right answer is. though friendships come and go you will definitely have to reevaluate your friendship with the, if your friend respects you and your friendship then maybe just maybe they will listen. if they dont listen is the friendship worth it knowing they are blatantly lying?

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Jan 4 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-01-04T20:15:20-05:00

You pull them off to the side and tell them to stop the bullsh!t. If you say nothing, you are basically being culpable in this situation. You have to decide what is more important, your integrity or friendship with a person without integrity. Just my two cents.

Response by TSgt Jackie Jones made Jan 4 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-01-04T23:51:34-05:00

Couple thoughts:

1. Why are you such close friends with a liar?
2. If you are close, you should be able to talk to them about it.
3. If you're thinking of calling them out in public, you aren't that close.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 12:44 AM

2015-01-05T00:44:05-05:00

I'll try and be more brief than my usual here.

A (former) Soldier who tries to pretend to be something they aren't is a fool. It is too easy to get caught as the legend grows - there are way too many veterans out there who can smell a fraud a mile away.
SPC Stephanie Oanes If you continue to associate yourself with a fool and remain silent, you too are a fool. Your reputation will suffer along with the perpetrator.
You need to correct this person gently, in private. If they persist, you should distance yourself. If you can't do that, than try to get to the bottom of it. This is a sign of self-esteem issues and may be part of a larger problem than meets the eye.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Jan 5 at 2015 7:58 AM

2015-01-05T07:58:16-05:00

The incidents described in the OP are integrity and honour violations. That person would no longer be my friend.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-01-05T10:14:44-05:00

Almost as bad as stolen valor, actually worse. Be proud of your service, only 1% of Americans do what we do. Correct them and if they do it again cut sling load.

Who knows what else they lie about. Just my two cents.

Response by SSG Eric Kelley made Jan 5 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-01-05T15:13:59-05:00

I think COL Smallfield said it all.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jan 7 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-01-07T13:03:38-05:00

Dang, stuff I did in the military only needs small *cough cough* embellishments. "This is a no shitter ... " How all sea stories start out. :)

But if you have a "friend" lying to everyone then you might want to get far away from that person. If you decide to talk to the person, do it in private, not in public. Explain that you really don't like the tall tales and if they insist on telling them, you will not continue the relationship.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jan 7 at 2015 7:24 PM

2015-01-07T19:24:41-05:00

SPC Stephanie Oanes, I'd privately call them out for being a BS artist and a liar -- which would probably terminate the friendship unless they started getting honest or at least ceased and desisted the braggadocio.

If the one-on-one had no effect, the next time I happened to be within earshot of their boasting, I'd be inclined to counter with one or three humorous but ego-deprecating tales about them from any common deployment.

And if those two warning shots didn't deter them, then I'd tell the bald-a**ed truth whenever asked by a mutual acquaintance: "Yes, I was over there with him. No, I don't have any stories as exciting as his because it was really pretty tame where we were at -- I got stuck doing parking enforcement around the headquarters building and he was tasked with keeping the sergeant major's square yard of grass neatly trimmed."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-01-08T12:29:24-05:00

Friends should be honest with each other.. just asking the right way can make a hell of a difference

Response by CSM David Heidke made Jan 8 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-01-08T12:32:25-05:00

My friends do not do this. If they did, they would no longer be my friends.

The same goes for anyone in any career.

I don't like or spend my time with liars.