CSM Christopher Irwin 58719 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a young Soldier in the 101st, we had a weekend corrective training session dubbed &quot;School of the Soldier&quot;. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The premise of the &quot;school&quot; was Soldiers who behaved badly or would otherwise be eligible for punishment under UCMJ would be required to attend 0615-1700 on Saturday and Sunday. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The training was conducted at the Brigade level, supervised by one E-7, and conducted by two or three E-5/6s (depending on the number of Soldiers). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It was a DA-6 run mission that all NCOs (assuming they are not flagged or barred) rotate through.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It started with PT and ended with final formation; consisted of drill and ceremony, battle drills, uniform inspections, regulation study (particularly regarding the infractions that brought the Soldiers there), and whatever else the unit-specific mission entailed. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In lieu of UCMJ, which I believe is too often used today, I think it was a very effective corrective measure. One of the single biggest impacts we can have on a young Soldier when correcting their short comings is through the use of their personal time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When you comment, don&#39;t belabor the post with the typical &quot;JAG won&#39;t let us&quot; or &quot;Soldiers are too sensitive&quot; - that is far too easy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I hope to hear from junior and senior enlisted and officers (yes, you too Warrants).&lt;br&gt; 2014-02-17T01:11:24-05:00 CSM Christopher Irwin 58719

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a young Soldier in the 101st, we had a weekend corrective training session dubbed &quot;School of the Soldier&quot;. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The premise of the &quot;school&quot; was Soldiers who behaved badly or would otherwise be eligible for punishment under UCMJ would be required to attend 0615-1700 on Saturday and Sunday. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The training was conducted at the Brigade level, supervised by one E-7, and conducted by two or three E-5/6s (depending on the number of Soldiers). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It was a DA-6 run mission that all NCOs (assuming they are not flagged or barred) rotate through.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It started with PT and ended with final formation; consisted of drill and ceremony, battle drills, uniform inspections, regulation study (particularly regarding the infractions that brought the Soldiers there), and whatever else the unit-specific mission entailed. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In lieu of UCMJ, which I believe is too often used today, I think it was a very effective corrective measure. One of the single biggest impacts we can have on a young Soldier when correcting their short comings is through the use of their personal time.&amp;nbsp; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When you comment, don&#39;t belabor the post with the typical &quot;JAG won&#39;t let us&quot; or &quot;Soldiers are too sensitive&quot; - that is far too easy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I hope to hear from junior and senior enlisted and officers (yes, you too Warrants).&lt;br&gt;

2014-02-17T01:11:24-05:00 2014-02-17T01:11:24-05:00 SSgt Private RallyPoint Member 58722

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We are leaders and if a mistake and not a crime was committed remediation can be an alternative. 

2014-02-17T01:16:22-05:00 2014-02-17T01:16:22-05:00 SSG Shawn M. 58725

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Irwin I personally love this idea. We already take soldiers time with extra duty for Art. 15&#39;s. Instead of having them cut grass that doesn&#39;t need cut or sweep sidewalks and streets that don&#39;t need swept we should educate them. This will only help them in the long run.

2014-02-17T01:23:18-05:00 2014-02-17T01:23:18-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 58727

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM, in my opinion, this sounds like a great idea. I believe something like this would definitely be more beneficial to Soldiers rather than just straight UCMJ punishment. But I have to also play devil's advocate here, with my recent involvement in strength reduction. In my opinion, it would be more beneficial to the Army to start weeding out the undesirables early on. Leaders are always challenged with balancing their time (the old adage of spending 90% of our time on 10% of the people). I want to lead, train and mentor all Soldiers like any good NCO, but to take more of family time away to spend on "problem" Soldiers is not a task I'm eager to undertake. I understand leadership is not a 9-5 job, I am a leader 24/7/365. But I have seen numerous QMP/QSP packets on NCOs that were able to attain SSG or higher that probably never should have. If we can start removing that type of Soldier early on, that would ease the burden placed on leadership time constraints.</p><p> </p><p>Having said all that, I do believe there has be a way to incorporate this type of "training session" with minimal impact to the leaders that are pulled away to do it. Hopefully it can be balanced against the other weekend duties on the DA 6.</p><p> </p><p>This is definitely something I will spend some time exploring...off the top of my head, it would work best in the areas where Soldiers are in a restricted environment (Korea, Kuwait, etc..) You have sparked my mind CSM, and I'm going to continue to dwell on this...</p>

2014-02-17T01:29:18-05:00 2014-02-17T01:29:18-05:00 SFC Randy Purham 58745

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ah yes the SOS as we called it when I was a young hooah. It had its effectiveness, just for the intent exactly as it was designed for. But, CSM Irwin, we both know that Leaders today would abuse that system as a way to "impose" corrective training for the most menial infractions that would otherwise be dealt with though conversation or simple counseling. I would be for it if there was a solidified system in place to ensure that those attendees are justifiably there and not because their leadership are idiots. To play devil's advocate here as well, it would also be noted that it is the responsibility of the leadership to utilize every tool to their disposal to correct sub-par Soldiers, and failure to do so should require additional training on their part. With that, maybe there needs to be something like School of the Soldier for the Leaders as well.

2014-02-17T02:24:21-05:00 2014-02-17T02:24:21-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 58747

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Never heard of this CSM, but it sounds like it could help. Personally and professionally, I would not want to participate with my Soldiers, if there is a discipline or military bearing problem or issue that I cannot solve, I wouldn't want to put it on someone else. To me, its stating to your subordinates that I cannot effectively discipline you, so your gonna go to some that can for a couple of days.<div>Now issues like DWI/DUI and maybe some financial issues, I can kinda see this working.</div>

2014-02-17T02:35:19-05:00 2014-02-17T02:35:19-05:00 SGM Private RallyPoint Member 58749

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;So we developed a program called the DART Program.&amp;nbsp; It stands for Drug and Alcohol Response Team.&amp;nbsp; When we get &quot;volunteers&quot; either through UA or the local Police/MPs for a drug or alcohol issue, the Soldier is given the opportunity to volunteer for the DART program.&amp;nbsp; Whenever a Soldier has a drug or alcohol issue, all members of the DART program will report to the SDNCO desk within two hours in their full Class A uniform.&amp;nbsp; They will welcome the new &quot;volunteer&quot; to the program and stay with him/her until they are sober from whatever substance they are on.&amp;nbsp; At that point on the weekends, each member of the team will give a class on an assigned subject area.&amp;nbsp; The class must be a full power point presentation and it will be on something related to leadership, drugs, alcohol, or training.&amp;nbsp; The NCOIC is a PSG, who is briefed by myself on the last duty day of the week.&amp;nbsp; Myself and my 1SGs provide oversight to the NCOICs on a rotational basis.&amp;nbsp; And yes we vetted this program through legal.&amp;nbsp; It must be a voluntary basis, and the reward for volunteering is that&amp;nbsp;the Soldier will receive some lienency&amp;nbsp;for any UCMJ. &amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;That being said, if you do not vet your programs through legal you are setting yourself up for failure.&amp;nbsp; It is not about being scared, it is about being as smart as the young Soldiers.&amp;nbsp; When we were PVTs, we did not have the wealth of information that technology provides, like the PVTs today.&amp;nbsp; Nor were taught to ask why, we simply obeyed and complied.&amp;nbsp; Generally speaking it takes legal 24 hours to validate that program is&amp;nbsp;legal/illegal.&amp;nbsp; If you need to implement your program in less than 24 hours then you have already waited to long.&amp;nbsp; The reason I am so adament about using the tools available, (JAG, IG) is I have seen to many NCO&#39;s careers tossed because they went &quot;old school&quot; on a Soldier.&amp;nbsp; As a Senior NCO we have a legal and morale obligation to protect our NCOs and shame on us if we fail to do this because we are too proud to ask JAG an opinion.&amp;nbsp; If you disagree with the opinion you simply ask them to show you in the regulation where you cannot do it.&amp;nbsp; Often you will find that their opinion is based on personal feeling rather than regulation.&amp;nbsp; You can educate the JAG Officer on what right looks like and sway them to your side.&amp;nbsp; At the end of the day, no NCO&#39;s career is worth taking a risk, especially not when we have so many assets available, and when all else fails we have UCMJ.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;

2014-02-17T02:36:43-05:00 2014-02-17T02:36:43-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 58764

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;I agree that in lieu of UCMJ, programs that you speak of<br />would work. Back in 2005 our BN had what they called &quot;Fit to Fight&quot;, so<br />basically it was a program that was up to you to get off of (min 3 weeks). The<br />program was held on Saturdays at 0600. The 1st week APFT, if you passed with 60<br />in each event you moved on to week 2, if you failed then you stayed on week 1 until<br />you could meet the standard. Week 2 was a 4 mile run in 36 min, if you met that<br />standard you moved on to week 3, if not you went back to week 1. Week 3 a 12<br />mile road march in 3 hours if you failed to meet the standard back to week 1<br />and start over again from there. To get off the Fit to Fight program you had to<br />pass all 3 events consecutively to be removed.&lt;span style=&quot;mso-spacerun: yes;&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;<br />&lt;/span&gt;This seemed to work for us, for some reason Soldiers were more afraid of<br />the Fit to Fight program, than losing the pay or rank.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;

2014-02-17T03:22:49-05:00 2014-02-17T03:22:49-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 58772

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div><br></div><div>I have never heard of until I read these post. I would support it! </div><div><br></div><div>V/R<br><br><br /></div><div>1SG Haro</div>

2014-02-17T03:58:51-05:00 2014-02-17T03:58:51-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 58786

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div><br></div><div>      As a newly promoted NCO, I totally agree with this idea.  I have seen that when soldiers who are constantly getting counseled on paper soon begin to percieve the idea that they can never do anything right.  When this happens they get the "I don't care" attitude why should I do what's right because all I am going to get is a paper counseling.  The idea of instilling a sense of accountability for the mistake will enable the soldier to take pride that they have overcome their mistakes and acheived a stronger sense of responsibility and not just a constant influx of signing counselings.  Though counselings are necessary, they can be limited if some if these "old ways" were brought back and used appropriately.</div>

2014-02-17T05:23:42-05:00 2014-02-17T05:23:42-05:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 58816

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;div&gt;CSM,&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;Short answer: YES!&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;Where did it go? I never knew it went away.&lt;/div&gt;The only time I saw this was in Korea (Camp Hovey/Casey). Is it specific to there. There were the obvious bad Soldiers that it didn&#39;t really help, but for those that were hardly ever in trouble, it seemed to work. I thought it was a pretty good program and yielded positive results. Those that were already too far gone didn&#39;t benefit, but the others did.

2014-02-17T06:46:05-05:00 2014-02-17T06:46:05-05:00 CSM Christopher Irwin 59522

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Getting some incredible feedback from the field - keep them coming. Both favorable and unfavorable comments are welcome. When you post, expect candor and brutal honesty in responses - no thin skin here. True professionals aren&#39;t afraid to walk into a situation without the possibility of getting their feathers ruffled!&lt;br&gt;

2014-02-18T02:56:02-05:00 2014-02-18T02:56:02-05:00 SGT Phong Le 59555

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, we had a sos program quite similar at 4th meb fort leonard wood back in 2011, which ended the following year. Except back then when your soldier hit the blotter and was required to go; your first line, plt sgt, and 1sg had to go with you. It kept all of us on our toes.

2014-02-18T05:43:52-05:00 2014-02-18T05:43:52-05:00 SSG Jake Turner 59562

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div><br></div><div>The power that an NCO has is far more reaching than the leaders of today realize.  I like this idea and firmly believe that if there were still corrective training sessions being conducted that the amount of simple infractions would be reduced.  The Soldiers of today have no fear of reprisals because let's face it the only tool being used today is UCMJ action.  I have heard Soldiers themselves make the comment that if corrective training were still in place today that these things would not occur.  However, I think that this tool as well with any other corrective action should be tailored to fit the crime committed.</div>

2014-02-18T06:11:43-05:00 2014-02-18T06:11:43-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 59605

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, they had School of the Soldier when I was at Camp Casey, Korea in 05-06. It was set up pretty much like you explained, with the the occasional WTBD class carried out in full battle rattle. It was something that none of wanted to have to attend, but that looking back at it as NCO, was a great program. I understand the fact that the soldier is attending SOS will be included in a formal counseling, but what actions would you take if after attending SOS the soldier once again got into trouble? I realize that the answer is case specific, but I personally feel like SOS was an ample attempt to give a soldier a second chance, and would now consider recommending the soldier UCMJ action.<br>

2014-02-18T09:18:03-05:00 2014-02-18T09:18:03-05:00 SSG Matthew Thomas 59615

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>During my time at Bragg my 1SG instituted Violator Fridays. I was for anyone who got into trouble that week or was caught skipping out of something. He started the program because troopers would race to their car just before reveille or would purposely stay in the building just so they would not have to render a salute. It would start Friday after 1700. The violator would be accompanied by his first line supervisor. The violator would have a written assignment about the incident and why it was wrong. They would then justify why they did what they did to the 1SG and or SGM. Discipline within the organization increased dramatically. 

2014-02-18T09:41:18-05:00 2014-02-18T09:41:18-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 60224

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Irwin,<br />I think this is a great idea. I've seen soldiers get in trouble and have to reap consequences whether it's extra duty, rank pulled or even pay withheld. However the most effective corrective actions I've seen, and something I personally believe is better, is taking that troubled soldier and teaching them. This not only helps educate young soldiers as myself and my battles but it keeps them away from situations that can cause more damage. This type of corrective training promotes personal growth and understanding responsibility, which is key. I think leaders should help influence both.

2014-02-19T08:59:05-05:00 2014-02-19T08:59:05-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 60232

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Irwin, this is a good idea. &amp;nbsp;I would attend a program like this voluntarily because it gives a refresher on basic tasks that I don&#39;t get to practice very often. &amp;nbsp;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;We&#39;re normally discouraged from doing 7 straight days of PT, but if NCOs are leading the PT sessions, I would think that we soldiers can&#39;t be held &amp;nbsp;accountable for the over-training issues that will arise.&lt;/div&gt;

2014-02-19T09:11:35-05:00 2014-02-19T09:11:35-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 60310

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM Irwin,</p><p>From what I have heard so far, I think this sounds like an excellent idea.  I have never seen a program like this with any of the units I have served with, but I've only been in for a bit under 6 years now.  As a former company commander, I would have loved this tool in my kit bag while I was in command.  If it gets the support of the command group and the legal blessings of the JAG, I see no reason why this should not be implemented.  I think we as leaders can usually differentiate between those Soldiers who need a little education and tough-love versus the ones who really need an Article 15 or worse.  For something like minor to moderate first time offenses, I would definitely make use of this program.  I would love to see this program in action, as I am sure I could learn a thing or two from it also.</p>

2014-02-19T10:56:26-05:00 2014-02-19T10:56:26-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 60841

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div>           I was a bit taken back as I read this because I felt as though I had fallen into a time machine and gone back to when I first joined the Army some quarter century ago. This is an outstanding idea and program that take the responsible of policing our soldiers and puts it back into the NCO Corp where it belongs. Far too often as stated, the easy way out was to utilize NJP rather than the leaders actually training and mentoring otherwise good soldiers. In Korea this is more and more common as many soldiers are first termer's and just let go of momma's apron strings. </div><div>Your explanation was both professional and eloquent to those that live the barracks lawyer mentality. This is something I preach to up an coming leaders all the time that this is the United States Army not somebody's club and with that it demands a certain method of leadership. All too often people in the head shed are fearful of JAG and in turn fail to exercise their given powers. Ours is a profession of arms and requires different rules and methods than that of society, and the top dogs in that funny shaped building in DC need to stop letting society govern our methods. Bravo</div>

2014-02-20T06:40:07-05:00 2014-02-20T06:40:07-05:00 CPT Richard Riley 60848

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Irwin - I think it goes back to taking personal responsibility. No one disagrees that today is very different than it was 30 years ago in terms of how teenagers grow up and are influenced. When the military is your first step away from home, there are a tremendous number of things to learn about yourself &amp;amp; your person in a short amount of time. The structure and leadership that the military affords the young enlisted may be a new learning process for some because they were never exposed to those idea&#39;s. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sometimes leadership may be too quick to default to &quot;legal learning&quot; through formal rules and infraction consequences rather than taking the time to teach, educate, and mentor a soldier through a rough spot or poor decision making. &quot;School of the Soldier&quot; could very well be part of that answer.&lt;br&gt;

2014-02-20T06:54:18-05:00 2014-02-20T06:54:18-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 62186

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;I believe it to be a great thing. Inmy last unit, before I came to TRADOC, we had the School of the Soldier for the individuals who decided to mess up. That individual and their NCO support channel going up to the 1SG would come in to train the soldier. The uniform was Class As or Bs, depending on weather, and we would be there from 0600-1700. the soldier and his leadership would receive a class on everything pertaining to military and would press the issue as to why the soldier did what he did and how to ensure it wouldnt happen again. Majority of the time it was used for individuals who go in trouble for a drug or alcohol incident. Once we started the program we rarely had any problems agains due to the fact that the soldiers didnt want to lose their weekends. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

2014-02-22T07:00:16-05:00 2014-02-22T07:00:16-05:00 MSgt Private RallyPoint Member 62346

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;We used to have a similar program in the Air Force known as &quot;Corrective Custody&quot;.&amp;nbsp; It was used heavily when I entered and mostly to correct Junior Airman&#39;s behavior in lieu of reductions in rank and/or loss of pay.&amp;nbsp;It was very effective as a &#39;mini basic training&#39; as some referred to it.&amp;nbsp; You lived in a barracks, just like basic training with the same requirements for maintaining the &#39;bay, showers and lockers&#39;.&amp;nbsp; There were military studies daily, mandatory PT, you were required to march everywhere you went and even had to walk through the chow line at&amp;nbsp;parade rest and shuffle through just like basic training,&amp;nbsp;reminders of why you were there and a reinforcement of military values and discipline.&amp;nbsp; Every Airman I saw go through that program, came back to the unit reenergized and motived.&amp;nbsp; Most continued on with 20 year careers and were very successful Senior NCO&#39;s.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;It was one of the first things to go back in the 90&#39;s troop drawdown because units could no longer provide the NCO&#39;s needed to support and conduct it.&amp;nbsp; Ever since then I witnessed a decline in Junior Enlisted Airman&#39;s discipline and motivation.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;So Yes I think these programs are highly valuable and should be returned to Service!&amp;nbsp; Of course that&#39;s just my two cents, if you throw in another two dollars you can buy yourself a cup of coffee!&lt;/p&gt;

2014-02-22T12:57:21-05:00 2014-02-22T12:57:21-05:00 CSM Christopher Irwin 67630

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I still think there are more responses out there....I am working toward enacting this in Area II Korea. I have office calls with CSM Devens and CSM Troxell to garner their opinion; give me some more thoughts!<br><br>

2014-03-02T05:24:28-05:00 2014-03-02T05:24:28-05:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 67633

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think this would be an excellent idea, take the offending Soldier and offer them a choice, the weekend corrective training or UCMJ action.

2014-03-02T05:38:41-05:00 2014-03-02T05:38:41-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 69284

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;CSM,&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;Yes we should absolutely bring it back. I believe we have<br />focused far too much time and energy worrying about the hurt feelings and the embarrassment<br />of Soldiers who have gotten into trouble and deserve some form of punishment.<br />You are right; going straight to an article 15 is not always the answer<br />especially when a young Soldier has a minor screw-up that can be resolved at a<br />lower level. Many senior leaders around me are afraid that if they punish a<br />Soldier they will become the focus of an IG complaint, or investigation because<br />the Soldier complains about the way we treat them. If leaders are professional,<br />counsel, and care for their Soldiers the way they should, more often than not,<br />Soldiers will understand why they are receiving their punishment. Our Soldiers<br />are smart, we need to teach them, mentor them, and explain why we do the things<br />we do to develop competent leaders for the future. &lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;We recently tried to bring School of the Soldier back in my<br />last BN however; it didn’t last long because our CSM required every leader from<br />squad leader to First Sergeant to attend (including PL’s). It was only held on<br />Saturday but, of course would interfere with someone’s weekend plans and<br />quickly fell apart because we could not hold it unless every leader was there.<br />Your idea of rotating NCO’s through a DA6 and publishing it like any other duty<br />roster allows the NCO’s to plan for the duty.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;Leaders who are afraid to correct Soldiers and unwilling to<br />commit to leading during “non-duty” hours are failing their Soldiers and<br />perpetuating the problem. Soldiers need to have discipline and be held to a<br />standard, if we do not uphold the standard we cannot expect our Soldiers to do<br />the same OR be surprised when they fail to meet the standard.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;

2014-03-04T11:45:09-05:00 2014-03-04T11:45:09-05:00 MSgt Keith Hebert 181108

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I remember as a young marine we had a ccf in Jacksonville it was at the rifle range and it scared us most of us to stay straight. The NCOs in charge made sure to let us know who and why those marines were there

2014-07-18T15:19:57-04:00 2014-07-18T15:19:57-04:00 MAJ Javier Rivera 181377

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When GEN Cody was the 101st ABN (AASLT) CG (2000-2002) he implenented an instalation level Corrective Training Camp (CTC). For what I remember he never had a repeat offender!

2014-07-18T21:57:27-04:00 2014-07-18T21:57:27-04:00 SSG Trevor S. 189732

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>On a BDE level, if you have enough Soldiers with disciplinary issues to institute such a program, you have problems within the NCO Corps that need to be addressed before implementing this. In fact this may lead inferior NCO's to pawn off their duty to train and conduct corrective training to the school's cadre only taking responsibility when they have to pull the duty.<br />I'm glad you want to address overuse of UCMJ level actions. I would suggest a command level train the trainer and a COL level heart to heart with some BN and CO commanders.

2014-07-30T03:49:46-04:00 2014-07-30T03:49:46-04:00 SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA 447109

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>EXCELLENT idea, re-education is key to winning over the hearts and minds, our penal system shows that harsh punishment creates more of the same. This should obviously be reserved for minor infractions and where a soldier has not broken regulations or the law.

2015-01-31T15:12:15-05:00 2015-01-31T15:12:15-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 447166

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Everyday of the week and then some. Say that phrase to current troops? Their response "I already went through Basic".

2015-01-31T15:52:13-05:00 2015-01-31T15:52:13-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 2810314

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In Healthcare Specialist AIT they had that, where if you screwed up ( not shaving, not completing assigned schoolwork or. Ring late to formations etc) you would show up on Saturday Morning and do random tasks or write and RBI on the infraction that landed you there.

2017-08-07T19:39:38-04:00 2017-08-07T19:39:38-04:00 Vonice LarsenBailey 2814378

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Magnificent idea!

2017-08-08T23:53:14-04:00 2017-08-08T23:53:14-04:00 LtCol Mac McCarty 3199820

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Leadership is the answer. You’ve got it oozing out your pores, Sergeant Major. I wish in this day and age more officers and senior NCOs would follow your advice. As my First Sergeant reminded me when I assumed command of my first company: “A clean [offenses and punishments] page is a great motivator to stay out of trouble. Once it is marked, the ‘Aw, this will just be another one’ attitude kicks in. We need to try everything else possible to prevent that first entry.”

2017-12-25T18:06:25-05:00 2017-12-25T18:06:25-05:00 SSgt Boyd Herrst 3200045

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We had a motivation barracks... to help errant Airmen get their heads screwed on straight.. I served s nine week tour as a <br />“ motivation counselor”. Another counselor said I was being enough of a motivator ... I had a different way and it worked ... I believed in the praise in public and get in their face in private.. ... what Zi said to them was between us two “Airmen”... these guys would be on their way out if we thought they “could not pack the gear”... Motivation barracks was one more chance to get their heads screwed on straight..... like school of the <br />Soldier... our barracks was moved temporary to backside of base in a very restricted area.. There were some very.P.c. Political types <br /> visiting and they would surely say we were not being p.c.... we had a lot of motivational drills they would say were <br />Not p.c. some were team work type drills.. why they would sag they were demeaning was beyond me.. we wanted them to work as a team not individuals.. <br /> Some needed that.. in a particular <br />Drill.. we were only over there for a week.. and moved e&#39;thing Back.. I do believe I was happy to be back in the kitchen ... that was not really my style of motivating errant Airmen ... I did e’thing I ciould to keep them in the kitchen.. because if one goes..we have to pick up the slack... maybe it might be better if they went... I had found things that needed attention.. and ojt on the sanitation/ maintenance is an excellent motivator... and we didn’t lose a body that could be used to do that work..

2017-12-25T21:25:09-05:00 2017-12-25T21:25:09-05:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 3200204

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CCU used to fill this role... It&#39;s still addressed in the UCMJ, but I haven&#39;t heard of a base in years that still has one..

2017-12-25T23:57:35-05:00 2017-12-25T23:57:35-05:00 SSG Max Goodman 3208489

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was at Fort Campbell and truly feel that they should bring this back.

2017-12-29T09:25:11-05:00 2017-12-29T09:25:11-05:00 SGM Bill Frazer 3209497

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In the 82nd, we the PSG&#39;s, 1SG&#39;s/CSM&#39;s ran our own course of weekend training for our less than stellar troopers. Normally, we required part if not all of the NCO chain to supervise. We concentrated on working on things that correlated to their screw-up, or just selected fieldcraft.

2017-12-29T16:16:27-05:00 2017-12-29T16:16:27-05:00 SGT Chad Fisher 3209499

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I did school of soldier when I was stationed on FT Hood in 2008. My CMS was all about taking your time for some petty shit but it&#39;s an effective tool for young soldiers that need guidance. It&#39;s better than an article 15 and extra duty for sure but run them together and get results. Bring it back!

2017-12-29T16:17:41-05:00 2017-12-29T16:17:41-05:00 SSG Brian Carpenter 3546620

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM you are 100% right I saved quite a few potential soldiers instead of just drumming them out with UCMJ. That was on my own time but once I got Bde involved we finally got the SOS going and suddenly undisciplined troops changed and some went on to retire

2018-04-15T20:07:15-04:00 2018-04-15T20:07:15-04:00 MSG Raymond Kindis 3684188

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Had it in BNCOC

2018-06-04T14:09:14-04:00 2018-06-04T14:09:14-04:00 1SG Dale Cantrell 3808327

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes, Any chance of helping up or improving a young career Soldier, it should be done, if you looking for training for civilian job, go to college

2018-07-19T20:19:33-04:00 2018-07-19T20:19:33-04:00 SSG Glenn Williams 4292653

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Way back in the early 80s there was a unit called the Retraining Brigade. All it took to send a soldier who was not up to par there was a Disposition Form requesting a slot. When the soldier came back to the unit two weeks later he was a hardcore soldier! I know they were taught discipline, physical training, basic soldier skills, and other tasks. I knew two soldiers who lost their military bearing and who went there and they were model soldiers when they returned.

2019-01-16T20:37:49-05:00 2019-01-16T20:37:49-05:00 CW4 Craig Urban 4629932

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Bring it back. I had a soldier PFC grant who was assigned the job which I had directed the platoon Sgt a SFC to grease our 5 tons prior to going to the field. 2/57 ada hawk in katterbach Germany. When I came to look grant had spread the grease everywhere but the nipples. I grabbed the SFC showed him and said do it again. Grant did the same thing again. He was a 76v warehouse. I told the SFC get grant to the barracks get some clean clothes, no civilian attire and a cot. He will sleep in the warehouse with you as well until this is done right. Shower in the gym. Eat at the messhall. It got done correct but I think the SFC did it. We processed PFC grant out and got a general discharge

2019-05-12T21:06:43-04:00 2019-05-12T21:06:43-04:00 SGT Jd Cox 4633173

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There are a lot of things that have gone by the wayside since I was in the military some thirty years ago. School of the soldier, on the spot correction done by an NCO, wall-to-wall counseling. I think as military discipline and bearing decrease, then other things rear their ugly heads. Insubordinate troops, poor performance and malingering to name a few.

2019-05-13T22:33:52-04:00 2019-05-13T22:33:52-04:00 SSG Rick Miller 4649162

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>School of the Soldier was and remains an effective tool to retrain, refresh and instill discipline without crushing a troop with UCMJ action. I had two young PFCs who were habitually late for everything. Their previous NCOIC let them slide on it. I didn&#39;t. In order to teach them puncuality, I required them to stand Retreat every day, weekends included, for 30 days, in full Class A&#39;s. Of course, I was right there with them, in my Class A&#39;s. On workdays, I released them at 16:30 to make 17:00 retreat. They got the message, and learned the lesson. Neither was ever late again. No UCMJ, no negative counseling, nothing in their record to hang them up in the future, but problem solved. SoS works, and works well, when the corrective action matches the offense. Make the troops do stupid stuff, unrelated to the infraction, all you get is piss poor attitudes from them, and a massive failure of leadership.

2019-05-19T10:43:19-04:00 2019-05-19T10:43:19-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 5535277

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Damn, this is an old one, but what a great idea. The commander can easily authorize this in a policy memo, either at the company, battalion or brigade level. I think a DA-6 may not be the best approach, as not every NCO is actually capable of mentoring and leading soldiers that need extra assistance or motivation.

2020-02-08T11:24:23-05:00 2020-02-08T11:24:23-05:00 SSG Kenneth Ponder 5536367

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Remedial training is what you mean. It can be done anytime, day or night.

2020-02-08T17:09:15-05:00 2020-02-08T17:09:15-05:00 Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member 5695152

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="159747" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/159747-csm-christopher-irwin">CSM Christopher Irwin</a> as a (hopeful) future Army Officer, I would MUCH rather a system like this existed to avoid the unnecessary “legal trail” that can haunt a Soldier for making a poor choice in the past. Less paperwork, less “double jeopardy”, more education. I would hope any good leader would rather want to use this method than play the paperwork game with their troops.

2020-03-24T00:18:01-04:00 2020-03-24T00:18:01-04:00 Amn Joseph H. 6354587

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Never heard of such a school, thought they were talking about the school of the americas that trained Noriega of Panama and other south american military leadership supposedly in torture [it is rumored] enough to shut it down. As none of the other skills, tactics, material instructions taught are ever mentioned:) Met a few of the airborne wide guys while on duty in the late 1960&#39;s, correcting thire short commings would have required a buttstroke, but class room etiquette:):)

2020-09-28T23:02:36-04:00 2020-09-28T23:02:36-04:00 SFC Timothy Holden Sr 6458083

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was a young soldier and screwed up.I would rather lose my free time and deal with punishment, than lose my money any rank because to make is to have a decent pay.

2020-11-01T07:32:49-05:00 2020-11-01T07:32:49-05:00 SGT Randall Smith 7131024

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My 1stSgt in Germany would give us manual labor on Saturday as punishment then on Sunday we had homework to do. We would check in with the CQ and get our assignments and check out an AR to study. We had to do a report on what we had read. It might me the history of the salute, why the latrines&#39; were dug the depth and distance they were from tents. When I was the Bn training NCO he would get suggestions from me for study. May sound dumb but they all learned from the lessons. I know I did.

2021-07-24T19:41:18-04:00 2021-07-24T19:41:18-04:00 1SG Joe Messier 8399113

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Chris, I&#39;ll call you Cris as this article is 9 years old and I&#39;m assuming you are retired now. <br />The school of the Soldier has been around much longer than you and I. The first variant of the School of the Soldier I witnessed was back in the 1980s at Fort Hood,TX. The troubled Soldiers were sent to a centrally located facility on Fort Hood and went through hell for 2 weeks straight. &quot;Permission to speak&quot;, &quot;Permission to use the latrine&quot;, Marched to and from chow. Beds made daily, shoe&#39;s lined up, lockers inspected daily. PT twice a day, Soldiers Task taught repeatedly. The one interesting thing I remember, they taught leadership tasks and principles to these trouble makers as a way for them to understand what their leaders went through every time that Soldier fucked up.<br /> Just like everything else, the results were mixed and deserve to be analyzed. A lot of these clowns went back to their unit, messed up again and got their ticket home. There were those too who toed the line, finished their enlistment and went home. <br />The occasion to celebrate came when you saw that rare bird that the program actually changed. As R Lee Ermey put it &quot;Born again hard!&quot; Those were some great leaders down the road. Charismatic, empathetic, and looked out for their Soldiers because they walked the walk. Perfect? Nah, but who is? <br />It costs a lot of money to train and prepare a Service member to do their job. The School of the Soldier was, in a way us being good stewards of the taxpayers dollars and exhausting all means to retain the force. Kicking out people for things we can work or retrain out of the individual keeps the numbers up that we are so desperately lacking. I&#39;m not saying yes or no. I&#39;m saying it&#39;s worth having a look.

2023-07-31T12:14:24-04:00 2023-07-31T12:14:24-04:00 2014-02-17T01:11:24-05:00