"SDSU students facing possible expulsion for refusing to remove American, military flags from balcony"

RallyPoint Shared Content — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 09:53:45 -0400

From: 10 News

Two San Diego State University students are facing possible expulsion after hanging the American flag and other military flags on their balcony.

The students claim it is their freedom of expression, while the school argues the flags pose a safety issue.

Sophomore Cameron Box, an active duty Coast Guard member, and junior Connor Fenwick, an aspiring U.S. Army officer, said there is no better way to express their patriotism than hanging these flags.

"We're just being proud of what we're affiliated with," said Box.

The U.S. Coast Guard flag, a U.S. Army flag and an American flag hang on the balcony of their SDSU on-campus housing. The school is not OK with it.

"They're trying to say it's a fire hazard, but it just doesn't make much sense," Box said.

The SDSU living agreement reads: "No items, except patio furniture designed for outdoor use, may be placed on balconies and patios. Hangings, partitions, or curtains of any type may not be used on balconies or patios."

"If you look up the definition of furniture, it does say it's an ornament and ornaments are particularly designed to beautify something," Fenwick describes.

In a dictionary, furniture is commonly defined as "movable articles, as tables, chairs, desks or cabinets, required for use or ornament in a house, office, or the like."

"I don't know anyone who wouldn't say a flag is not designed for outdoor use," Fenwick said.

A letter from SDSU to the students states they have violated policy and may now face expulsion.

Box and Fenwick counter that it comes down to interpretation, and they plan to stand their ground.

"Why can't we have our First Amendment rights?" Fenwick asked.

While the students say they will stand their ground, they may not have much to stand on.

"I think the university is within its rights to prohibit hanging anything from a balcony," said David Loy, legal director for the ACLU in San Diego.

He points out that just because the students live in government housing, it doesn't make it a public forum.

"I certainly defend the students' right to express themselves and their patriotism, but they probably need to find another way to do it," Loy said.

The school said it wants the flags taken down immediately. It says the flag pose a safety concern because it can potentially block visibility.

SDSU officials say the students can appeal the decision. However, if they fight it and lose, they could be expelled.

Box and Fenwick said if it comes to that, they will take the flags down because they don't want to lose their scholarships.

http://www.10news.com/news/sdsu-students-facing-possible-expulsion-for-refusing-to-remove-american-military-flags-from-balcony-092815

SDSU students facing possible expulsion for refusing to remove American, military flags from...

SAN DIEGO, C.A. -- Two San Diego State University students are facing possible expulsion after hanging the American flag and other military flags on their balcony.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 9:56 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 09:56:05 -0400

Hangings, partitions, or curtains of any type may not be used on balconies or patios.

Don't like it, live somewhere else.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Oct 1 at 2015 10:19 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:19:23 -0400

To paraphrase Ayn Rand; government and the individual are a study in contrast. In a free society, the individual may do whatever he pleases provided he violates nobody else's rights, to which the law should conform. The government, on the other hand, may do only that which is permitted it by the law and has no power beyond this. The idea that a publicly funded university feels that it can tell a student to not fly an American flag should tell us everything we need to know about the university system today.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Oct 1 at 2015 10:26 AM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:26:17 -0400

I salute and applaud them for standing up for what they believe in and for showing their love, respect and support for this Great Country of ours. The hell with all those bastards who say they are offended. F-cking move out if you don't like it!

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 10:52 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:52:53 -0400

I highly doubt these students will be expelled. The backlash from that would be really cool to watch, as San Diego has such a large veteran population and is in all reality a "Navy" town.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Oct 1 at 2015 10:53 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:53:31 -0400

Very sad; but, not unexpected from the California educational establishment which probably is populated with many of the most anti-USA people in this nation.
Hopefully people, especially those in authority, will focus on matters of real importnace instead of violating 1st amendment rights of students and citizens.

Response by SGT David T. made Oct 1 at 2015 10:53 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:53:37 -0400

Had they used the argument that the flags could offend someone I would be opposed to this. However, the argument that the flags obstruct views is a valid point. Now if there are other flags that are allowed to remain and these were singled out then that is a different matter entirely. In our sue happy culture organizations have to go to extreme lengths to avoid litigation. Assuming that the circumstances are not more than what is being reported I don't think that the university exceeded its mandate on this.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Oct 1 at 2015 11:27 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0400

there is a difference between "that flag might offend someone, remove it now" and, "yo, dude, no flags on balconies, remove it now"

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 11:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 11:55:59 -0400

WHILE I agree with the students here, I would hate like heck to see them get expelled. I think the university is trying to cover it's own butt in this instance, but again, I stand with the students here.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 1 at 2015 12:26 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:26:46 -0400

I'd say if they owned the dorm and were responsible for all liabilities to tell the university to go to hell. However since they don't I would suggest to get an Army and US flag "towel" and hang them out there to "dry" bring them in at night and then repeat daily. Or hang the flags inside from their windows. These two should look me up - if the school wants to play fuck around games I got more fuck around games than Milton Bradley.

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Army-Cotton-Beach-Towel/dp/B00FQ3R4V4
http://www.amazon.com/KAUFMAN-American-Beach-Towel-101210/dp/B0047WN5OA

Amazon.com - U.S. Army Flag Cotton Beach Towel 30" X 60" -

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Oct 1 at 2015 12:31 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:31:12 -0400

I wonder what would have been said or done, if the 'flags' had been hung on a flag staff set in a base on the balcony? In the picture not only does it show flags, it also shows a banner hung on the balcony rail. I wonder if there would have been the same outcry if the Aztec banner had been singled out in this account, and how that would be handled?

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Oct 1 at 2015 1:35 PM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:35:19 -0400

I just graduated from SDSU and the on-campus Barron Vet Center with its on-site VA Rehabilitation Counselor Natacia Cordell always made my life easier. An on-campus monument commemorating SDSU students who have been KIA in various wars makes this a head-scratcher.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Oct 1 at 2015 6:04 PM

LTC John Shaw — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 18:04:09 -0400

RallyPoint Shared Content The next question is: How has SDSU enforced the no hanging flags from the balcony in the past. If they have not and they are selectively applying the rules the students have a point.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Oct 2 at 2015 1:54 AM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 01:54:29 -0400

Safety Reasons? BOLOGNA! Just another libtard school....showing their UN AMERICANess....and or not wanting to deal with POLITICAL CORRECTNESS...so they eliminate anything that can be an issue.
This is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..for Pete sake. No one should have a problem with the American Flag.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2015 9:33 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:33:07 -0400

Figures. Destroy our culture for another. Avoid real issues like poverty, admit illegals and lie saying that we want this. Liberals be damned. One day when you grow up (if you do) you will know the order of things. My holding
my dad's hands as he died and my being
59 just finalizes this opinion.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 20 at 2015 12:11 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 00:11:54 -0500

They signed an agreement that nothing goes on the balconies and they have to abide by it. It's not a 1st Amendment issue at stake.

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Nov 30 at 2015 8:47 PM

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:47:22 -0500

Easy solution. paint the flag on something. No fire hasard,does not block visibility, etc. check it out.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 30 at 2015 9:20 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:20:39 -0500

The school can dress it anyway they want to but I doubt its for safety. If it was for safety, every student needs to wear a helmet on school property.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 9:35 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 09:35:52 -0500

Personally I think that laws, rules and regulations goes well before anyone wanting to show their pride and freedom of expressing themselves. People back this only because it is american/military pride - but wouldn't back it if it was a gay pride flag or jolly roger.

Either the rules state that you can hang flags outside your window of the property you rent, or it says you cannot. If that's the rules, I could care less what the color of your flag is.

Response by PO1 Ted Woitazek made Jan 25 at 2020 7:56 PM

PO1 Ted Woitazek — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:56:30 -0500

Federal law states how to properly display the flag. Any judge with a brain would tell the school to STUFF IT!!