Senior Leader Adultery - Will he receive punishment?

2014-05-23T10:32:25-04:00

If he admits to it, and is seeking counseling for it - should he be punished?

I am of the belief that if you wanted help, really wanted help, you'd have sought out conseling before....any thoughts or speculation as to what the punishent will be?

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/adultery-led-to-virginia-navy-base-enlisted-leader-s-ouster-1.284104

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 10:37 AM

2014-05-23T10:37:49-04:00

I believe that he should be corrected on what he did. He should receive some sort of disciplinary actions as well. Adultery is not a trait of a leader, and he was supposed to be a leader. People in lower ranks are being discharged for adultery, and I think that is an option for him as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 10:58 AM

2014-05-23T10:58:42-04:00

CSM,

Lead from the front or get out. Embrace our standards and values or seek the nearest door. If a door cannot be found one will be provided for you.

I am so unbelievably tired of reading about our senior leaders breaking the rules and getting a slap on the wrist. Holding everyone accountable at all levels of our organization is paramount to the good order and discipline of the military.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 24 at 2014 9:57 AM

2014-05-24T09:57:46-04:00

Will he be punished? I don't think so; but he'll most likely retire within 6 months.

This wasn't just a one-time affair (still not good) and he used his government email (and Facebook) to communicate with her. Hope it was worth it!

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made May 24 at 2014 1:55 PM

2014-05-24T13:55:03-04:00

He should be punished according to his violations of UCMJ and regs. I don't know if he is trying to use 'seeking counseling' as a shield against max punishment, perhaps to save rank, etc. I don't know enough, but investigators should watch out for that. Letting this slide is a bad example for more junior service members.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made May 25 at 2014 11:36 AM

2014-05-25T11:36:21-04:00

SNCOs world-over know they live in a goldfish bowl and should comport themselves accordingly. If the shoe were on the other foot, MCPO Raynaud would be on the sideline cheerleading for the proverbial book to be thrown at max velocity, center mass. From what I read, I think the MCPO has plenty of time to seek counseling (if that's what he wanted in the first place). No. Chief's gotta go.

Response by Col Dave Mork made May 27 at 2014 8:17 AM

2014-05-27T08:17:34-04:00

There is something very twisted that seems to happen to some when promoted to the most senior ranks. With the rank comes certain privileges, but some twisted folks seem to believe in their own hype--that they ARE that good compared to everyone else, and that the rules no longer apply to them. The fraudulently claim expenses others would not, they take "leave" at the front and back of TDY's for personal reasons without claiming the leave, and they commit criminal acts and really believe that because they are who they are that it is not a crime for them. I say this type of activity is far more criminal than when some younger folks make an honest mistake and are punished--these folks consciously ignore the rules. I say only punishment acceptable is dishonorable discharge.

Response by Col Aj Briding made May 27 at 2014 12:54 PM

2014-05-27T12:54:11-04:00

As the top SNCO on the base, he certainly should be held to the highest standards. Assuming there's a strong case that he had some form of inappropriate relationship, then removal from his leadership position would be the first step; administrative actions to include a referral performance report and letter of reprimand would be a minimal punitive course; and if the elements of adultery could be proved (and that's a big "if"), then UCMJ actions could be taken. It sounds as if he admitted to adultery, so that latter requirement looks like it's in place. That means that a Captain's Mast would be a reasonable COA, hitting him with additional punishments that could include loss of rank, loss of pay, confinement, etc. From my experience, few if any adultery cases are taken to a court martial as stand-alone offenses, but are prosecuted as add-on offenses (such as with inappropriate relationships or failure to obey).
Col Mork mentions the Bathsheba Syndrome, and that indeed seems to rear up in some senior leaders when they get to the top, but I think most of us would agree that the great majority of our senior leaders have a strong enough value system to prevent that.
--AJ

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Sep 18 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-09-18T15:47:35-04:00

CSM Uhlig,

As a Senior NCO, Staff NCO, Petty Officer, Company Grade, Field Grade, or Warrant Officer we accept the responsibility of leadership and for the actions of our subordinates. How can we lead if we are well outside not only morale boundaries, but also violating the letter and spirit of the law (UCMJ) and destroying good order and discipline of the military in the process?

Trust is the most valuable commodity we have in the military. When a Senior leader violates that trust how can it be regained?

Consequently, even if counseling is requested (and it should be provided), if he has enough time he should also request retirement and his last fitness report, NCOER, or evaluation should reflect his lack of support for Navy values. I do not believe, even though the UCMJ allows for it, any incarceration, reduction, or other punitive action is warranted, but that is a personal opinion based on the limited facts of the case I am aware.

Thank you CSM Michael J. Uhlig for starting this discussion and highlighting such an import point of leadership.

SFC Joseph M. Finck USA (Ret)

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 12 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-03-12T20:34:32-04:00

This is not the first nor the last time a Master Chief, CO or XO will be nailed for adultery. They are always removed from their position of authority, which ends their career. They will often go to Mast, although generally if there is no other misconduct attached it usually amounts to a punitive letter of reprimand.

If their lover was subordinate (I had to deal with that on a ship when I was Senior Watch Officer (next in line after the XO)), there is more of a mess, and of course, when financial crimes, other ethics violations, etc, happen, it adds.

I don't know the specifics in the case of this Master Chief, but as we saw with Gen. Petraeus, adultery in of itself does not result in reduction in rank, fines, imprisonment, reduced discharge status, etc.

In the case above that I mentioned, the other party was a female LT (O3). She was re-instated to her position, and I was ordered by the CO to convene a warfare pin qual board for her, no less...

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 12 at 2015 10:07 PM

2015-03-12T22:07:45-04:00

CSM Michael J. Uhlig as I am sure you are well aware this is widespread issue in our ranks... Senior Leader misconduct... Sex, Power, and Money....

He should be relieved and invited to retire. He should/we should be treated the same way he/we would treat a subordinate.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-06-05T12:13:50-04:00

When I joined up, Monica Lewinski was a household name. Examples are set from the top. Yes, UCMJ did not apply to the blue dress incident but it still was a bad example set for all.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 6 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-07-06T15:42:33-04:00

Let me see base Senior NCO, want to bet this wasn't the first time in his career, just the first time he was caught? Doing it on a government computer? DUH that is just plain dumb, or by cheating standards, my wife want find out. Question remains will he get burned for it? He should but seeing how a jury of his peers will try him, most likely not, as most of them are probably guilty too.

Response by SSgt Mose Carter made Sep 1 at 2019 4:39 PM

2019-09-01T16:39:20-04:00

If sexual harassment can be a career killer for senior officers, surely adultery is also.

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Aug 14 at 2020 11:00 PM

2020-08-14T23:00:41-04:00

The only reason he is going for help as he says is beause he knew he was caught. Trying to make himself look likecit was not his fault. As i said before, if you are an E7 or above, the normal rules do not apply. I was at fort Leonard wood. Training post. I seen so many get into trouble doing the same thing a SFC or officer did. E6 and below got hammered. Loss of rank, loss of pay, restriction. Even loss of MOS. E7 and above they tried to hide it. E6 and E8 both married unknowingly was with the same female. E6 lost everything. rank, pay, money, and carreer. E8 (1SG) nothing was said or done.he was selected for SGM 3 MONTHS later. Thankfully he was in a non injury DWI accident out on town. They could not hide it. It eas his 3d DUI. 2 on post hidden. He retired as a 1SG. Is it fair? no is it right? no. But they get away with it every day. Until it is fair across the board, things will get worse.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Sep 12 at 2020 9:45 PM

2020-09-12T21:45:13-04:00

Article 15s and courtsmartials should be the same for all ranks committing the same crime! Unfortunately we have 4 systems of justice. Usually with serious crimes like child abuse, rape, sexual assault officers O1 to O5 and enlisted E1to E8 will go to jail, get a Dishonorable Discharge and forfeit their retirement and Officers O6 and Enlisted E9 will do no jail time, get an Honorable Discharge but be forced to retire and leave the service with their retirement intact. In a few cases, Colonels and Generals May be forced to retire at a lesser rank than their current rank for misconduct or poor performance in their current rank. Different strokes for different folks! After 12 yrs as a Special Agent, I retrained because I was so sick of how unfair and unjust the system was! Nothing like working 72 hrs straight based on the assurances a Colonel or General will go to jail for Child Abuse or Assault to see them quickly kicked off the base, retired with their benefits because the service wouldn’t want to be embarrassed or sued!