Senior leaders: Why send a soldier to the board before you think they're ready?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:51:28 -0400

I've experienced this personally, where as a SPC with 2.5 years TIS, I was pressured to go to the promotion board, I was given soldiers to mentor, and I was tasked with things normally completed by an NCO. But when I made SGT at 3 years TIS, I was looked down upon by the same leaders that pressured me to go to the board (not because of a lack of performance, but because of a lack of TIS). So my question, if you're not confident that the soldier could adequately serve as an NCO AT THAT MOMENT, why send them to the board? And additionally, what do most of you think is the "magic time" to become an NCO is?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:54 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:54:50 -0400

Because some leaders only look at metrics. got to have the numbers look good. As for the "magic time," certainly after a couple of years in and only when the SHOW/ACT and FEEL that they are ready for the stripes.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 6:06 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:06:57 -0400

I just accepted a promotion after 3 years TIS but only a year and a half in my unit. My squad leader that it was a good idea I take the next step because I had highest promotion points in the state (yes I'm National Guard). And I was giving classes on my Job to soldiers who have been in longer than myself.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Aug 16 at 2016 7:22 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:22:37 -0400

Magic time should be the willingness to work at it, and the mental acumen.

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Aug 16 at 2016 7:24 PM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:24:46 -0400

Because sometimes an NCO can sense your potential before you do, but the respect given to NCOs as leaders is earned. There's no obligation to treat you like a grown-up when you slap on a rank. I was promoted to SGT at 2.5 years when I was 20 yo. Looking back, I would have treated me like a kid too.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 7:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:29:08 -0400

What you're talking about is a much more pervasive problem than you'd think. Premature promotion of unready or unwilling soldiers to leadership roles happens all over the Army, all the time. It's partly due to a cultural shift a while back, when we were expanding rapidly and needed somebody, anybody, to fill the newly-made positions that began opening up. This caused leaders to look at any subordinate with the potential for promotion, regardless of experience. Then those leaders became the senior, and promoted based on the same criteria--potential, with experience being a 'bonus'.

There's no "magic time", although some would say it's after at least a year or two time in position. Some people are naturally influential and capable leaders right from the get-go, and can very quickly grasp the ins and outs of a position. Others may need more time to get comfortable with a role. The bottom line is, that person should be A) extremely comfortable doing their own job, to the point where they could teach someone else to do it as effectively as themselves; and B) capable of executing the duties of the office above them without difficulty. They may not know the minutiae of their promoted position, but they should at least have done it several times, enough to be comfortable.

Example: SSG promotable to SFC should be intimately familiar with every aspect of squad leadership. They should be the consummate expert at relaying information to subordinate team leaders while extracting relevant information from the platoon sergeant. They should be able to jump in to any squad and operate smoothly without major incidents. In other words, they should be an expert at their current job. They should also have taken over the platoon several times, and been familiarized and trained as a platoon sergeant. It's not expected that they know every facet of the platoon sergeant's job as well as they know that of a squad leader. But they should be able to transition into that role with only a few minor hiccups.

That's the "ideal", at least. Unfortunately, we're still in that mindset from the Surge, and the only way to fight a massive cultural shift is with another massive cultural shift.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 10:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:03:02 -0400

Honestly that magic time doesn't exist. I got out of the Corps in 01 as a Corporal and didn't come into the Army Reserves till 07. I was out for six years but just three by my IR time. After about a year in the Army my 1SG was telling me to put in for promotion. I told him I wasn't ready, that I still need to learn more about the Army and read up on regulations to better myself. Even though I met TIS/TIG to try and get promoted I waited till 2010 before I put my packet in and went before the board. My unit had boards before your packet went to the BN. That's when I finally felt like I was ready to take on the responsibilities of an NCO in the Army, even though I had been an NCO in the Corps. Only you will know when you are really ready to be promoted to take on a new responsibility. On the other hand if your NCOs pushed you to the board, then they must of SEEN THE POTENTIAL. Some get mad or upset when someone promotes fast because there is that possibility they may get passed up if you are fast tracking because of your hard work and dedication. Some people are THREATEN when a YOUNG SERGEANT/SOLDIER IS HUNGRY...

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Aug 16 at 2016 10:53 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:53:21 -0400

I believe that a Soldier should have a chance to work in a temporary leadership role before going also should have a leadership course prior to going in Front of a Promotion Board. I was a Acting Sergeant after completing Primary leadership Course.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 17 at 2016 10:02 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:02:34 -0400

Well the biggest reason is to fail. I know a lot of people who fail their first board. They get nervous, they overthink it, they're not mentally prepared for it etc. But it gives them the experience they need to be more confident in the future.

Now in regards to your very specific situation, you have to realize if they think you are advancing in rank too quick, you go from being the developing NCO to the competitive leader that could replace them.

No one likes the idea of being replaced. Some also can't help their jealous feelings if you're picking up faster than they picked up when they were in your shoes. Makes you look better for retention while they could be kicked to the curb.

Response by SGT Michael Boston made Aug 17 at 2016 12:19 PM

SGT Michael Boston — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:19:12 -0400

Speaking for infantry at the minimum 3 years. The Sgt are the backbone of any infantry squad, platoon and company. Evetything down the pike the success and failures starts and rest with them. The leaders above, both SNCO and officers depend on their knowledge and competence. At any point that Sgt should be able to step in the role of platoon Sgt/platoon leader. The young privates, next to the DS are the first real leaders that will build the future leaders. I was once told by my Sgt in the 1/75 that the mark of a leader is not how loud or threats to get the job done but the willingness to follow the orders get the job when his back is turned. Those skills and ability can only be developed with time. To push a man to soon is only setting himself up for failure or worse having to now prove himself to those that did the pushing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 1:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:01:01 -0400

There is no "magic time", and every individual/Soldier/Leader brings different strengths to the table. As for pressuring you, or looking down on you, just chalk that up to their own personal issues -that truly have nothing to do with you. We don't promote because we think someone is already operating at that next level, we promote off of their potential, and our faith in their ability to step up to the next level of Leadership. My advice is -as with anything in life or the military- keep on trucking, and doing right by your Seniors, Peers, and Subordinates. The rest will fall in line. Let the judgments and cynicism fall by the wayside ...because ultimately the only people you truly need to worry about are your Soldiers, and the only opinions that should matter, are the Leaders that actually influence your career [i.e. Rater, Senior Rater, Unit Leadership -looking more at 2 levels up].

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 4:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 04:38:14 -0400

One of my NCO's said that it can help them understand the board and learn more about the situation and themselves even if they fail the board.

Response by PVT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 8:08 PM

PVT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 20:08:09 -0400

Not reading the rest of the responses, the right answer is below:
Promotion recommendation (board) is based on Potential.
Doesn't matter if a Soldier is in the Secondary Zone, Primary Zone, or 6+ years TIS.
Everyone has different potential and realizes it at different times.

The number one discriminator when I see a Soldier before a promotion board is the sponsor's introduction, opinion, and enthusiasm for their Soldier.
A good 1st Line will have their Soldier recommended before they even step through the door.

For your specific situation, you may or may not have been ready. Regardless, you are now an NCO and have to live up to a higher standard. If someone has problems with your TIS, which they might equate to your lack of experience, they should take you in and show you the right way instead of ostracizing you for things you cannot change.

Advice that will make you a better leader:
A Non-Commissioned Officer well based in doctrine is usually considered an asset at all echelons of leadership. Familiarize yourself with relevant Army Doctrine and learn something new daily. I suggest you start with ADP 6-22, ATP 6-22.1, and AR/PAM 623-3.
A smarter and adaptable NCO is what the Army needs.

Response by SGT Bert Shamblin made May 20 at 2017 1:50 PM

SGT Bert Shamblin — Sat, 20 May 2017 13:50:53 -0400

If you know and do your job well and are mature and squared away then your ready....no time limit. If your ready, your ready. They were probably envious of your fast promotion unless you are incompetent but, you are the only one that knows that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 5:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:40:04 -0400

SGT Elkins,

Let me tell you something I worked with you. I know this is an old post. I knew you as a pvt. I remember when I had a formation in the motor pool and you questioned me in front of the entire motor pool. Not sure if you remember however, was it wrong but let me tell you something when you did that I knew that you was already ready to slap on 2 more chevrons just because a leader does not always yes man everyone. You got smoked for it but never the less you was a solid soldier. You’ll do just fine brother keep on trucking forward.