Senior NCOs, how do you feel about quality NCOs leaving the backbone to become a commissioned officer?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:13:30 -0400

Senior NCO's, how do you feel about quality NCO's leaving the backbone to become a commissioned officer? As this happen, it leaves other NCO's to possibly step up and fill those shoes, but at the same time, it brings that "backbone experience" to the Officer side. Officers, especially prior enlisted, feel free to give your thoughts?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2019 9:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:18:18 -0400

I don't see any issue with it. NCO, Commissioned Officer, and Warrant are all different paths with different challenges and rewards. Being good at one doesn't mean you'll be successful or happy in another. I know plenty of LTs who wished they could resign their commission for a simple life and plenty of Enlisted who think officers have an easy life.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Sep 16 at 2019 9:23 PM

1SG Frank Boynton — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:23:20 -0400

Why not. Back in my day an E8 with 18 years got paid about the same as a 2LT. How in the hell is that even close to being fair? If an NCO can further his career and get the money he should, why the hell not. The NCO Corp will always land on its feet. There are enough good NCOs just waiting for the opportunity.

Response by SFC Gene Estep made Sep 16 at 2019 9:29 PM

SFC Gene Estep — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:29:54 -0400

I personally think that all officers should be enlisted for at least two years before obtaining a commission, with the exception of West Point , The Citadel etc.. Any officer I ever had that was either enlisted first or West Pointer where the best officers I ever served under, VS your basic butter ball who's seen all of one fire fight and know no everything about a melee!
First and foremost LT when I hear rounds ripping by my Richard Noggin I'm eating dirt first and foremost!

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Sep 16 at 2019 9:40 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:40:55 -0400

To be a good commissioned officer you should have been a NCO first.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2019 9:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:41:15 -0400

I had mixed feelings about transitioning, but this was my career path, I just took a while longer to get there. Way I saw it, if I prepared my junior NCOs enough and got them to prepare quality candidates for advancement, there would be someone capable of handling the job when I left. I like to think that my enlisted time gives me depth to understanding those I'm responsible for; I've been "Joe." I would also hope that the direct leadership opportunities I've had could sharpen my interpersonal skill as an Officer, and allow me to better plan by exception. I think it comes down to personal career aspirations.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Sep 16 at 2019 9:42 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:42:25 -0400

I now high level generals. I taught them logistics.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Sep 16 at 2019 9:43 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:43:06 -0400

Do you think that anyone messes with a CW4?

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2019 9:50 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:50:50 -0400

I wouldn't be opposed to becoming a Commissioned Officer one day. Anything I learned can be useful for all the troops and I'll have a greater, more broad understanding of the missions to come. Experience that may be lacked without this experience. I could always pick out the Officers that were an NCO before, my troops could relate with them much quicker and easier too.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 16 at 2019 9:58 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:58:19 -0400

Sometimes it is harmful to both groups- you lose a good NCO, and sometimes the Mustang just can't stop trying to NCO things.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 12:13 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:13:40 -0400

At some point those NCO's would either move up to the SNCO ranks and no longer be in the "backbone," as you call it. The other alternative is that they remain stagnant in their careers, perhaps due to not checking the right boxes off for future SNCO roles. It looks like it could go either way. If one were to realize they would be stagnant in the NCO grades, perhaps the alternative for future growth is to go after a commission.

Now one needs to understand, if they think getting a commission is a path to an easier life, I can say that is sorely mistaken. As an officer you do get more responsibility but at a price. You are held to a different standard. In some respects it is a higher standard. Certain things that you can do as a junior NCO to stand out, will be things you are simply just expected to do as an officer. Its not's saying one is better than the other, its just that the expectations that come with the position do become greater. If you can't muster it as an officer you risk basically having a short career as one. I had a lot of young enlisted aircrew back in the day in my jet talk about how easy they thought the pilot's lives were. What they did not know was the stuff that was going on behind closed doors.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 17 at 2019 5:45 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 05:45:57 -0400

Everyone has a different path in life. Simply stated, some of the best Generals (Officers across the board) that I ever worked for were prior enlisted. Thank you for your service.

Response by MAJ William Smith made Sep 17 at 2019 6:13 AM

MAJ William Smith — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 06:13:55 -0400

I commissioned through OCS. Later, when counseling NCOs who were thinking about it, I posed them a question: “Is it easier to see yourself as a retiring SGM or LTC?” We all have different personalities. It’s easy to think about staying an NCO for the next stripe or going for a butter bar. I thought that they should think about their own personality and try to imagine much further down the road. I was VERY happy enlisted, but I just couldn’t see myself as an E-7, 8, or 9. I didn’t have the right personality to be one of the senior NCOs that I admired. Likewise, I met many officers who didn’t have that personality and would have been happier and more successful as NCOs.

Response by SFC Michael D. made Sep 17 at 2019 8:02 AM

SFC Michael D. — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 08:02:51 -0400

If he/she were a quality NCO then then should make a quality officer. The rank should not change the fundamentals of the person.

Response by SSG Alan Pelletier made Sep 17 at 2019 8:36 AM

SSG Alan Pelletier — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 08:36:20 -0400

It is about supporting the Total Army Force. Same with soldier's going to the SF Selection course etc.

Response by SPC David Roberts made Sep 17 at 2019 9:07 AM

SPC David Roberts — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:07:12 -0400

The two officers who stand brightest from my Army times were both prior enlisted and I think it made a huge difference in their ability to help a young junior enlisted still trying to get his head together.

However, I think there is a price to having a commission. Enlisted people do things as a team and enjoy the comradery of being in it all together. Officers, especially those in command paths, are typically isolated from the people they lead and tend to be in competition with their peers. And the higher up you get the more this is the case. For some personalities that's just fine. But from my experience of similar roles in civilian life, that situation can be tough and even rob you of some of your humanity.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 10:56 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:56:41 -0400

Good people constantly move on, whether to get a promotion, try a new assignment, transfer units, etc. We can't expect good people to stagnate in their current roles. And when those people move on, such as to acquire a commission in this case, it's imperative that the remaining leaders groom those who are left behind to get them to step up. This is talent management 101.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 11:40 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:40:51 -0400

If that quality/squared away NCO becomes an Officer and becomes a benefit and shining example to other Officers, then I fail to see a problem.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 17 at 2019 1:02 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 13:02:05 -0400

I've seen some very good examples of Senior NCOs that did just that and became outstanding Officers. Most of the ones I had the pleasure of serving ever ever forgot where they came from either but there also was no pulling wool over their eyes. they knew which end was up. One unit I was in ALL our Officers were prior enlisted from SSgt to MSgt, We were very well led. Two units our Commanders were MSgt rank as enlisted, one retied as a Lt Col, the other a full Colonel. Another former MSgt advanced to Base Wing level and retired as a Full Colonel also. Another a former SSgt as enlisted also retired as a Full Colonel. There are still others, that also made excellent Officers. Other good people also rose to fill the Senior NCO ranks which had been well led by these outstanding Officers. In each case their unit were also selected as being outstanding and good leadership certainly helped that. We did things to help not just because We had to but because We wanted to, and these leaders did inspire us.

I only saw one prior enlisted man that became a Commissioned Officer , I don't mention here and He is the exception and was forced to retire. I see that overall as 90% or better success rate.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 3:35 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:35:39 -0400

As a former SFC, I tried to take care of my Soldiers when I was in command. I also tried to stay in my lane but at times did step in when things werent getting done. It's a fine line at times. I made decisions based on what I thought was best but always took into account how it would affect my Soldiers. I dont know if Im a better officer for being a former SNCO but I do look at things very differently than my peers. I do hope that my decisions were the right decisions for the mission as well as the best possible for the Soldiers themselves.

Response by SFC Jamie McNeill made Sep 17 at 2019 4:16 PM

SFC Jamie McNeill — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:16:58 -0400

My Nephew just got commissioned last week at Fort Benning. I attended and I was more than proud. As a 22 year Army retiree; I think we all have to choose the path we think we are best suited for. If they were quality NCOs then perhaps that's what the Officer Corps needs more of to get them online with being a flock of quality officers. Period T.

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made Sep 17 at 2019 5:39 PM

SGM Thomas Adderley — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 17:39:41 -0400

1. When you say "how do you feel about quality NCO's leaving the backbone to become a commissioned officer? " What do you mean 'quality NCO's? Aren't all NCO's supposed to be of quality, if they are not you and others should be working to make them better or get them the h___ out of my Army. 2. Are second guessing a Senior NCO who may have a goal of being more than what he is?; why shouldn't he try to improve himself and bring some NCO experience to the Officer Ranks. 3. You seem to be bothered by the fact that another NCO will have to step up to the vacant position. Well La De Da isn't that what happens when someone leaves or becomes a casualty.?
My advice to you is quit worrying about the small s___ and worry about yourself, your unit and your men.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Sep 17 at 2019 7:59 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:59:43 -0400

I can see plenty of Junior NCO's going over to the dark side :) I think there is some merit to this for many but not all. I can't remember any MSG or above thinking about this, it may have happened but I have never seen or heard of it, besides I can not imagine a SRNCO seamlessly blending in with Officer life or the cultured behavior :). I have known or met a few JR NCO's that became officers and it was roughly a 50/50 split as to them adding or detracting from the officer corp. I have however seen a few officers that were rifed and became NCO's. The ones I met were a good fit even when they took some time to adjust to the different requirements and lifestyle. As with anything QUALITY is subjective, I for one would rather see the NCO Corp weed the ranks of back stabbing , phony POS who wear stripes and don't give a damn, pay lip service to the NCO creed. These same wastes of space don't give a rats ass about the troops, lie to the officers and still get advanced up through the ranks to perpetuate their toxic leadership and drive good Soldiers out.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2019 10:26 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:26:30 -0400

I was enlisted for almost 15 years and I was an NCO for around 2/3 of that time. I don’t know if I was a “quality NCO” or not. Looking back I would have done a lot of things differently from a leadership perspective. I made the jump to the Officer side 3 years ago to become a physical therapist. I felt as if I could better serve Soldiers in that role and I don’t think I would have left the enlisted side for any other job. In my current job I still get to work with and train Soldiers on a regular basis, albeit in a different capacity. Later this week I’ll actually start a position as an embedded PT with an Infantry unit. I was never an Infantryman but I believe my time as an EM gives me a unique perspective that will make me a better provider to my Soldiers. With that being said I still miss being an NCO on occasion.