Seriously? Do we really think women are just now on the verge of entering combat roles?

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:46:37 -0400

I saw this post on Face Book, a post from a West Point Soldier I served with (I asked her if I could share this). It is timely, as for some reason many believe women are not already serving in direct combat; they are, and in fact have been for years. This quote is about 1LT Laura Walker, but remember as you wring your hands about women in combat roles... women are a part of our military, and have been answering the call for centuries. When I joined the Army in 1980, the Fort McClellan CG was a female 2 Star General, MG Mary Clarke. I believe all women want, is the opportunity to serve, and to try for whatever they want. Not special treatment, or reduced standards, but the opportunity.

"10 years ago today, 18 August 2005, 1LT Laura Walker was killed in action in Afghanistan. Since the sun came up this morning, I must've sat down 4 different times at my computer, fingers motionless on the keyboard struggling to find the words that I wanted to share today to honor my fallen friend and classmate. With a few hours left in the day, I finally decided to be honest and share that I don't know what to write. I only know that I miss Laura and today was hard. Her family is in my thoughts and prayers. I also know that I was blessed to call Laura a friend; she was a beautiful human being and one of the finest leaders I've known.
Ten years and you still continue to inspire me. Thank you for your friendship, for your service, and for your sacrifice. Well done. Be thou at peace."

http://www.cmrlink.org/content/home/35891/grim_toll_of_military_women_killed_in_war

GRIM TOLL OF MILITARY WOMEN KILLED IN WAR

Read it here

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:59 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:59:58 -0400

Excellent! Thanks for Sharing.

Women have been in harms way even before the war on Terrorism. They have proven themselve over and over. It is long overdue.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 19 at 2015 11:16 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:16:30 -0400

Sir, that was quite eloquent for someone that couldn't find the words.

RIP LT Laura Walker.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Scharff made Aug 19 at 2015 11:26 PM

PO2 Jonathan Scharff — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:26:33 -0400

Thank you for taking the time to share with us this fine leaders story. Please know that we share your grief and we will keep her in our thoughts and prayers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 11:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:40:12 -0400

Sir. Thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry for your loss. I wish I had words that would give you and her family comfort.

Response by PO1 Sojourner "Chancy" Phillips made Aug 19 at 2015 11:41 PM

PO1 Sojourner "Chancy" Phillips — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:41:09 -0400

Beautiful. Thank you.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 12:02 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:02:22 -0400

Thank you for sharing this.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 20 at 2015 12:05 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:05:59 -0400

We could very well be. Just don't lower standards

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 20 at 2015 4:43 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:43:43 -0400

COL Charles Williams it is absolutely true that women have been serving in combat for the history of our country. Even when in "non-combatant" roles if one is under attack, one is then a combat soldier...

Re Ft McClellan, I hope you're healthy - Ft Mc has a huge history of toxic chemicals ala Camp Lejeune, but the government has not officially acknowledged this yet, or paid many claims on it...

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 6:48 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:48:53 -0400

Godspeed, Ma'am. Rest easy.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 7:51 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:51:49 -0400

COL Charles Williams Thanks for sharing. You said it very well.

Response by Sgt Joseph Brent Montgomery made Aug 20 at 2015 8:10 AM

Sgt Joseph Brent Montgomery — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:10:56 -0400

Outstanding, great share Sir.

Response by Maj William Hefty made Aug 20 at 2015 8:35 AM

Maj William Hefty — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:35:57 -0400

Great post, and beautiful thoughts and eloquent words shared for an USMA classmate.
It is absolutely true that women can, do and have been serving in combat. The question to me isnt can women serve in combat, as we all know a "rear echelon" soldier doesnt truly exist. The fight is wherever the enemy meets you and that isnt always at the infantry leaders decision. However, the question facing the services isnt should women be in combat it is, should we open all MOS's to women. To that I say absolutely. I have served with and for some amazing leaders that happened to be women. If, however you ask me if we should lower the standards to ensure women make it through training my answer is unequivocally, NO. Lowering the standards is exactly what is being asked of the Army and Marine Corps at this time. The Marine Corps conducted a year long trial of women attending Infantry Officers Course, and not one made it through. I am a graduate of Infantry Officers Course, and it is a tough, challenging, thought provoking school. More than half of my male counterparts did not make it through my class alone. That standard is set that high in order to ensure we have physically and mentally qualified people leading our troops in an MOS that we KNOW will be in contact with the enemy. I am a firm believer that there are smarter, stronger, faster, better equipped leaders out there that are females and I encourage them to go through the qualification processes and schools and take on any MOS, but in doing so meet the standards that are set, the same standards that have helped this nation forge the greatest military the world has ever seen.
Men and women are physiologically different, no amount of regulation or policy changes will make that untrue. Accept and embrace those differences, that is what makes us such a powerful nation. Overlooking those differences and changing standards wont make us more effective or more efficient when we need to be most effective.

SF

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 9:16 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 09:16:50 -0400

May her memory never fade.

As to women in combat:

Doesn't matter what we think.
We are soldiers.
We will do what our bosses tell us to do.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 9:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 09:45:35 -0400

144 Women have passed away "Not fighting on the front line."

http://www.cmrlink.org/content/home/35891/grim_toll_of_military_women_killed_in_war

You are absolutely correct. Now this is just a political ploy. It sickens and saddens me. Thank you for sharing one of their stories. COL Charles Williams

Afghanistan:
1.Marine Sgt. Jeannette L. Williams,25, KC-130 crash in Pakistan mountains, Jan. 9, 2002.
2.AF Staff Sgt. Anissa Shero, 31, loadmaster, MC-130H, crash on takeoff of Special Operations mission, June 12, 2002.
3.AF 1st Lt. Tamara Archuleta, 23, co-pilot Pave Hawk helicopter, crashed while picking up two injured Afghan children, Mar. 23, 2003.
4.Sgt. Maj. Barbaralien Banks, 41, Chinook crash, Apr. 6, married, one son, 19, Apr. 6, 2005.
5.Spec. Chrystal Stout, 23, Chinook crash, Apr. 6, 2005.
6.1st Lt. Laura M. Walker, 24, IED attack on Humvee, Aug. 18, 2005.
7.Sgt. Wakkuna A. Jackson, 21, IED attack on convoy vehicle, Aug. 19, 2006.
8.Reserve Sgt. 1st Class Merideth L. Howard, 52, suicide car bomb attack on Humvee, Sept. 8, 2006.
9.Spc. Ciara Durkin, 30, gunshot wound, investigation in progress, Sept. 26, 2007.
10.Sgt. Simone Robinson, 21, IED attack in Kabul on Feb. 28, single mother of two year-old daughter, Mar. 1, 2009.
11.Navy Lt. Florence B. Choe, 35, killed by iAfghan soldier while running at Camp Shaheen, Mazar-e-Sharif, 3 year-old daughter, March 27, 2009.
12.Air Force Lt. Roslyn L. Schulte, 25, IED hit on vehicle near Kabul, May 20, 2009.
13.Air Force Senior Airman Ashton L.M. Goodman, 21, IED hit on vehicle near Bagram AFB, May 26, 2009.
14.Staff Sgt. Tara J. Smith, 33, non-combat related incident under investigation, mother of two boys, 8 and 6, August 4, 2009.
15.Sgt. Eduviges G. Wolf, 24, RPG attack on vehicle, wife and mother of two girls, ages 3 and 1, October 22, 2009.
16.Pfc. Barbara Vieyra, 22, IED, RPG attack near Kunar province, Mother of a little girl, Evelyn, Sept. 18, 2010.
17.Pfc. Jaysine P.S. Petree, 19, IED attack on vehicle traveling between Ghanzi and Bagram Airfield, Sept. 24, 2010.
18.Staff Sgt. Aracely Gonzalez O'Malley, 31, injuries in non-combat incident at Mazar-e Sharif, Oct.12, 2010.
19.Lt. Col. Gwendolyn A. Locht, 46, Evacuated from Afghnistan with non-combat illness in May, died Nov. 16,2010.
20.Sgt. Zainah C. Creamer, 28, IED attack on unit, Jan. 12, 2011.
21.Pfc. Renee Sinkler, 23, RPG attack while in turret of MRAP vehicle in convoy, Jan. 19, 2011.
22.Sgt. Linda L. Pierre, 28, Suicide bomb attack by Afghan soldier near FOB Gamberi, April 16, 2011.
23.Staff Sgt. Cynthia R. Taylor, 39, Suicide bomb attack near FOB Gamberi, April 16, 2011.
24.Master Sgt. Tara R. Brown, 33, Attack by Afghan pilot under training at Kabul Airport, April 27, 2011.
25.Spec. Devin Snyder, 20, IED on road, June 4, 2011.
26.1st Lt. Ashley White, 24, IED attack on assault force with which she was assigned as part of a cultural support team, Oct. 22, 2011.
27.PFC Sarina Butcher, 19, IED attack in Paktia Province, Nov. 1, 2011.
28.Spc. Mikayla Bragg, 21, suicide in guard post in Khowst Province, Afgthanistan, Dec. 20, 2011.
29.Spec. Erica Alecksen, 21, IED attack on vehicle, eastern Afghanistan, July 8, 2012.
30.Spec. Krystal M. Fitts, 26, indirect fire while serving on a Female Engagement Team, July 17, 2012.
31.Pfc. Patricia L. Horne, 20, cause of death in Bagram not reported, August 24, 2012.
32.CWO Thalia Ramirez, helicopter crash in Logar province, Sept. 5, 2012.
33.Sgt. Donna Johnson, suicide bomber attack, Oct. 1, 2012.
34.Sgt. Camella M. Steedley, USMC, 31, mother of four young children, cause of death under investigation, Oct. 3, 2012.
35.Spc. Brittany B. Gordon, 24, attack by suicide bomber in Zabul province, Oct. 13, 2012.
36.Capt. Sara M. Knutson, 27, UH-60 helicopter crash near Kandahar, Mar. 11, 2013.
37.AF Capt. Victoria Pinckney, 27, mother of 7 month-old son, crash of KC-135 tanker refueling plane in mountains of Kyrgyzstan, May 3, 2013.
38.Maj. Jaimie Leonard, 39, attack by person wearing ANA uniform, southwest of Kabul, June 8, 2013.
39.Spc. Ember Alt, 21, enemy attack near Bagram AFB, June 18, 2013.
40.Spc. Hilda I. Clayton, 22, explosion while training with Afghan troops, non-combat mission, July 4, 2013.
41.Spc. Caryn E. Nouv, 29, mother of two young children, IED attack, Ghazni Province, Afghanistan, July 27, 2013.
42.Capt. Jennifer M. Moreno, 25, IED ambush while accompanying Rangers as nurse in Zhari District, October 6, 2013.
Iraq: 1.Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, 23, captured, died in captivity, Mar. 23, 2003, two children, 4 and 3, Mar. 23, 2003.
2.Sgt. Melissa Valles, 26, non-combat gunshot wound to abdomen, cause unknown, July 10, 2003.
3.Spc. Alyssa Renee Peterson, 27, gunshot wound to head, cause unknown, Sept. 15, 2003.
4.Pfc. Analaura Esparza Gutierrez, 21, RPG attack on supply vehicle, Oct. 1, 2003.
5.Spc. Tamarra J. Ramos,24, non-combat injuries, armor medical company, Oct. 1, 2003.
6.Pfc. Rachel Bosveld, 19, MP, attack on Baghdad police station, Oct. 26, 2003.
7.Pfc. Karina Sotelo Lau,20, Chinook crash, under fire, Nov. 2, 2003.
8.Spc. Frances M. Vega, 20, Chinook crash, under fire, Nov. 2, 2003.
9.Chief Warrant Officer Sharon T. Swartworth, 43, CWO, JAG Corps, Blackhawk downed under fire, Nov. 7, 2003.
10.Sgt. Linda C. Jiminez, injuries following a fall in Baghdad, Nov. 8, 2003.
11.Staff Sgt. Kimberley Voelz, 27, explosive ordnance disposal expert, bomb exploded, died in soldier husband's arms, Dec. 14, 2003.
12.Capt. Kimberly Hampton, 27, helicopter pilot, downed under fire, Jan. 4, 2004.
13.Sgt. Keicia M. Hines, 27, MP, struck by vehicle, Jan. 14, 2004
14.Pfc. Holly Jeanne McGeogh, 19, vehicle hit by IED, Jan. 31, 2004.
15.Pfc. Nichole M. Frye, 19, Civil Affairs Reservist, vehicle hit by IED, Feb. 16, 2004.
16.Capt. Gussie Jones, 41,non-combat death (surgical nurse, possible heart attack), Mar. 7, 2004.
17.Spc. Tyanna Avery-Felder, 22, shrapnel wounds, Apr. 4, 2004.
18.Spc. Michelle Witmer, 20, Wisconsin NG MP, killed by small arms attack (one of three sisters in the Army), Apr. 9, 2004.
19.Spc. Isela Rubalcava, 25, hit by mortar round to Stryker brigade, May 8, 2004.
20.Pfc. Leslie D. Jackson, 18,vehicle hit by IED, May 20, 2004.
21.Pfc. Melissa J. Hobart, 22, collapsed while on guard duty, mother of 3 year-old, June 6, 2004.
22.Spc. Julie R. Hickey, 20, Civil Affairs Reservist, died in Germany after complications from non-combat related illness, July 4, 2004.
23.Sgt. Linda Terango-Griess, Ordnance Company Reservist, 33, vehicle hit by IED, July 11, 2004.
24.Sgt. Tatjana Reed, 34, vehicle hit by IED, July 22, 2004.
25.Sgt. Shawna L. Morrison, 26, IL NG, 26, hit by shrapnel when barracks mortared, Sept. 5, 2004.
26.Spc. Jessica L. Cawvey, 21, vehicle hit by mortar, single mother of 6 year-old, Oct. 6, 2004.
27.Sgt. Pamela Osbourne, 38, three children, ages 9 t0 19, Oct. 11, 2004.
28.Sgt. Cari Anne Gasiewicz, 28, convoy vehicle hit by grenade, Dec. 4, 2004.
29.Sgt. Tina S. Time, 22, vehicle accident, Dec. 13, 2004.
30.Sgt. Jessica M. Housby, 23, IL NG, hit by IED near truck convoy, Feb. 9, 2005.
31.Spc. Katrina L. Bell-Johnson, 32, truck overturned, cause unknown, mother of 1 year-old, Feb. 16, 2005.
32.Spc. Adrianna Salem, 21, vehicle rolled over, unknown cause, Feb. 21, 2005.
33.Pfc. Sam W. Huff, 18, IED attack on Humvee, April 18, 2005.
34.Spc. Aleina Ramirez Gonzales, 33, Puerto Rico, mortar attack on forward operating base, Apr. 29, 2005.
35.Spc. Lizbeth Robles, 31, vehicle accident, Mar. 1, 2005.
36.Spc. Carrie L. French, 19, bomb hit on convoy, June 5, 2005
37.Marine Lance Cpl. Holly Charette, 21, attack on truck convoy in Fallujah, June 23, 2005.
38.Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Regina Clark, 43, 1 18 year-old son, Fallujah attack on truck convoy, June 23, 2005.
39.Marine Cpl. Ramona Valdez, 20, Fallujah attack on truck convoy, June 23, 2005.
40.Staff Sgt. Tricia L. Jameson, 34, medical specialist, Army NG, IED explosion while responding to a casualty incident, July 14, 2005.
41.Pfc. LaVena L. Johnson, 19, non-combat related injuries, July 19, 2005.
42.Spec. Toccara Green, 23, IED explosion, Aug. 14, 2005
43.Airman 1st Class Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 21, IED explosion, Sept. 28, 2005.
44.1st Lt. Debra A. Banaszak, 35, non-combat related injuries, Oct. 28, 2005.
45.Sgt. Julia V. Atkins, 22,IED attack near Humvee, Dec. 10, 2005.
46.Sgt. Regina C. Reali, 25, IED attack, Dec. 23, 2005.
47.Sgt. Myla L. Maravillosa, 24, RPG attack on Humvee, Dec. 24, 2005.
48.1st Lt. Jaime L. Campbell, 25, helicopter crash, Jan. 7, 2006
49.AF Senior Airman Alecia S. Good, 28, Gulf of Aden helicopter collision, Feb. 17, 2006.
50.Pvt. First Class Tina M. Priest, 20, gunshot wound to the chest, unknown cause, Mar. 1, 2006.
51.Pfc. Amy Duerksen, 19, of injuries suffered in Iraq, Mar. 11, 2006.
52.Spc. Amanda Pinson, 21, mortar attack while waiting for bus transport, Mar. 16, 2006.
53.Marine Lance Cpl. Juana Navarro Arellano, 24, of wounds received in Iraq, April 8 , 2006.
54.Navy Petty Officer 2nd Class Jaime S. Jaenke, 29, Humvee struck by IED, Iraq, mother of 9 year old girl June 5, 2006.
55.Pfc. Hannah L. Gunterman, 20, mother of a 2 year-old boy, killed by a fellow soldier in a vehicle accident in Taji, Iraq, Sept. 4, 2006.
56.2nd Lt. J. T. Perez, 23, IED explosion near Humvee in Al Kifl, Iraq, Sept. 12, 2006.
57.Sgt. Jennifer M. Hartman, 21, suicide bomber attack on West Baghdad Substation, Sept. 14, 2006.
58.1st Lt. Ashley (Henderson) Huff, 23, suicide attack on convoy, near her Humvee, Sept. 19, 2006.
59.Sgt. Jeannette T. Dunn, 44, of non-combat related injuries, Nov. 26, 2006.
60.Maj. Megan McClung, USMC, 34, IED attack near Ramadi in the Anbar province, Iraq, Dec. 6, 2006
61.Maj. Gloria D. Davis, 47, gunshot wound in a non-combat related incident, Dec. 12, 2006.
62.Senior Airman Elizabeth A. Loncki, 23, ordnance disposal team targeted by car bomb, Jan. 7, 2007.
63.Command Sgt. Maj. Marilyn L. Gabbard, 46, Black Hawk helicopter crash near Baghdad, Jan. 20, 2007.
64.Spc. Carla J. Stewart, 37, transportation convoy vehicle rollover, Jan. 30, 2007.
65.Marine Cpl. Jennifer M. Parcell, 20, female suicide bomber attack at checkpoint in Anbar province, Iraq, Feb. 7, 2007.
66.Marine Capt. Jennifer J. Harris, 28, helicopter crash due to enemy action in Anbar province, Iraq, Feb. 7, 2007.
67.Sgt. Ashly L. Moyer, 21, IED detonation near her MP vehicle, Mar. 3, 2007.
68.Pfc. Katie M. Soenksen, 19, IED detonation near her MP vehicle, May 2, 200.7
69.Spc. Karen Clifton, 22, RPG attack on her vehicle, near Baghdad, June 21, 2007.
70.Sgt. Trista L. Moretti, 27, indirect fire during an insurgent attack, June 25, 2007.
71.Spec. Michelle R. Ring, 24, mother of two young boys, mortar fire attack in Baghdad, July 5, 2007.
72.Capt. Maria I. Ortiz, 40, indirect fire attack in Baghdad, July 10, 2007.
73.Staff Sgt. Alicia A. Birchett, 29, non-combat related accident in Baghdad, mother of 3 young boys, Aug. 9, 2007.
74.Sgt. Princess C. Samuels, 22, indirect fire near Taji, Iraq, Aug. 15, 2007.
75.Spc. Zandra T. Worthy-Walker, 28, indirect fire near Taji, Iraq, Aug. 15, 2007.
76.Spc. Kamisha J. Block, 20, non-combat "friendly fire" incident, MP battalion in Iraq, Aug. 16, 2007.
77.Spc. Marisol Heredia, 19, injuries suffered from a non-combat related incident, July 18 in Baghdad, Sept. 7, 2007.
78.Capt. (Dr.) Roselle M. Hoffmaster, 32, Kirkuk, Iraq, non-combat related incident under investigation, Sept. 20, 2007.
79.Spc. Rachel L. Hugo, 24, IED and small arms attack on MP unit, Bayji, Iraq, Oct. 5, 2007.
80.Staff Sgt. Lillian Clamens, 35, RPG attack near Baghdad, mother of 3 young children, Oct. 10, 2007.
81.2nd Lt. Tracy L. Alger, 30, IED attack in Shubayshen, Iraq, Nov. 1, 2007, while serving in a forward support company (FSC) attached to the 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment. (All soldiers in the war are "in harm's way," but Direct Ground Combat-collocated support units at the battalion level are required by DoD regulation to be all male.)
82.Staff Sgt. Carletta S. Davis, 34, IED attack in Tal Al-Dahab, Iraq, mother of three sons, Nov. 5. 2007.
83.Spc. Keisha M. Morgan, 25, non-combat related cause under investigation, Feb. 22, 2008.
84.Marine Lance Cpl. Casey Casanova, 22, IED attack in Iraq, May 2, 2008.
85.Spc. Mary J. Jaenichen, 20, non-combat related injury that is under investigation, May 9, 2008.
86.Cpl. Jessica A. Ellis, 24, IED attack on her medical vehicle, near Baghdad, Iraq, May 11, 2008.
87.AF Tech Sgt. Jackie L. Larsen, 37, non-combat related natural causes following non-hostile action, Balad AFB, July 17, 2008.
88.Pfc. Jennifer L. Cole, 34, non-combat related incident, under investigation, Bayji, Iraq, Aug. 2, 2008.
89.Lance Cpl. Stacy Ann Dryden, 22, non-combat related incident under investigation, al-Asad Air Base, Iraq, Oct. 19, 2008.
90.Spc. Jessica Y. Sarandrea, 22, mortar fire on forward operating base near Mosul, Mar. 3, 2009
91.Staff Sgt. Army C. Tirador, 29, non-combat incident near Kirkush, Nov. 4, 2009.
92.Pfc. Adriana Alvarez, 20, MP, injuries sustained supporting combat operations, Feb. 20, 2010.
93.CWO2 Billie Jean Grinder, 25, hard helicopter landing, Feb. 21, 2010.
94.Spc. Lakeshia M. Bailey, 23, vehicle rollover in Al Kut, Iraq, Mar. 8, 2010.
95.Pfc. Erin L. McLyman, 26, mortar attack on base, Balad, Iraq, Mar. 13, 2010.
96.Spc. Morganne M. McBeth, 19, homicide by fellow soldier with a knife, Khan Al Baghdadi, Iraq, July 2, 2010.
97.Spc. Faith R. Hinkley, 23, RPG attack on unit in Iraq, Aug. 7, 2010.
98.Navy Boatswain Mate Seaman Yeshabel Villot-Carrasco, 23, suicide aboard the destroyer USS James E. Williams on her first deployment as part of OIF, Red Sea, June 19, 2013.
Kuwait: 1.Reserve Sgt. Denise Lannaman, 46, non-combat-related incident at Camp Arifjan, Oct. 1, 2006.
2.Pfc. Cwislyn K. Walter, 19, non-combat related, near Kuwait City, Feb. 19, 2009.
3.Navy Operations Spec. 2nd Class Dominique D. Cruz, 26, Jan. 19, Gulf of Oman.
4.Staff Sgt. Jessica Wing, 42, non-combat cause of death in Kuwait under investigation, Aug. 27, 2012.

GRIM TOLL OF MILITARY WOMEN KILLED IN WAR

Read it here

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Aug 20 at 2015 10:24 AM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:24:44 -0400

Col. Excellent post and great share. Women have been in Combat for a long time. There are records of Women, dressing as men and entering the Civil War on both sides of the conflict. Despite men, women over the years have proven they are capable of doing combat roles. The problem, we have as men, is the stereotype that we are the protectors and providers in this world. This is a deep rooted Stereotype that goes back ages. Women, on the other hand, have defied this stereotype for centuries. There are women that are incredibly tough, excellent providers, and outstanding soldiers.

In the same instance, there are stereotypes against men. In a custody battle between Mother and Father, the Mother will win 85% of the time. If a man is raped by a woman, there is a 90% chance that the police will dismiss it.

The point I am making is we pigeon holed Women and Men into certain positions in society. And its hard to let go of long held stereotypes.

Personal opinion. Women can do anything they want as long as they are qualified. Same with Men. We as humans need to let go of the past and work on the future.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 20 at 2015 10:34 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:34:35 -0400

COL Charles Williams What an outstanding post and message for the RP Community. I too have been serving since 1975 and women have play a key role in all aspects of the military service. I truly believe they should have been included in the combat arms long before where we are at today. There are many brave women that have given their lives in combat for this nation and many that have come back wounded in body and mind. Thank you for your very kind tribute to 1LT Laura Walker. May she RIP and our prayers go out to her family and frends that have been left behind to remember her as a truly wonderful person and hero that will be missed! Bravo COL Williams!

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 10:57 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:57:28 -0400

That was beautiful Sir. Thank you for sharing!

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Aug 20 at 2015 11:00 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:00:35 -0400

COL Charles Williams Sir your friend is an eloquent speaker, and this is a timely post, as this is clearly a topic of wide debate.

My opinion is this: if a female Soldier/Airman/Marine/Sailor/Coast Guardsman (not sure of the applicable abbreviation-and any of our Coast Guard Brothers/Sisters feel free to advise) chooses to enter into a combat MOS/AFSC, let them, and let them go in, eyes wide open. Keep the standards up at the levels that they are at, as weakened combat troops are just that. I serve with and have served with many highly capable female SMs and I do not feel that they should be sexually discriminated against. I do feel that there will be difficulties in moving into those roles, as the real world is quite different than the training world, but if they go into the task knowing full well the difficulties and hardships then I say go for it.

At the end of the day, female SMs have been in the AOR since day one, some much more so than others, and combat will find it's way into every area of the AOR, there simply is no place that is "off limits" to combat. Many female SMs have not only been relevant in those situations, but have been outstanding, period. Women, just as men feel the calling to serve our Nation, and should be afforded the opportunities. Not all will seek out those MOS/AFSCs, but then neither will all men.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Aug 20 at 2015 11:40 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:40:32 -0400

It is a joke to think that women do not serve in combat. It is all about semantics. We have a problem socially with a woman being in the infantry, but a woman who is a SeaBee, or part of a transportation company, or a fighter pilot, or a sailor is fine. SeaBees can be called on to create infrastructure in a forward area, exposing them to enemy fire. A transportation company moving supplies to the front line, is a delicious target for enemy fire. A fighter pilot by their very definition is going into combat with the enemy. A sailor on a destroyer is trained to combat the enemies of this nation. By not having women in the infantry or other "direct combat roles" all it does is say that these women are not necessarily going to be the first to come under fire. A non combat role involves staying in the US mainland, and not being deployed to an area where combat could occur. I don't know any branch of the service that does that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 12:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:25:41 -0400

I believe it is time to be honest with ourselves. However, we need to break down all the inequalities present as well.
-Different PT scales
-Different Living arrangements
-Different latrines
-Different hygiene areas
-Different clothing...
This is just to name a few instances. I believe everyone sees my point. We need to stop picking and choosing what is inequality and what isn't when, true inequality is hitting us in the face every day, just like keeping women from combat roles. Every Soldier is a Soldier in my opinion (translate to your branch if you wish), and should be treated as such, same standard, same treatment (when they excel and when they fail). We get told constantly how different we have to be treated by items like above. When will our actions speak as loud as our words?
I am all for complete integration, no caveats.

Response by SMSgt Daniel Yoder made Aug 20 at 2015 1:42 PM

SMSgt Daniel Yoder — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:42:15 -0400

I agree with you Col. Williams, women have been in combat situations for some time. In the Air Force women have been in harms way for some time. More so then not when the Security Forces career field was intergrated and women were allowed to enlist within Security Forces, outside of the law enforcement speciality. As a result of this women in security forces have been in every conflict since Granada and Panama. Additionally, women have paid the ultimate price in Security Forces When AIC Elizabeth Jacobson was killed in a convoy when her vehicle was hit by a IED in 2005. She will never be forgotten.

Women have and always will pay a role in combat and people just need to get use to it.

Response by Cpl Robert Clark made Aug 20 at 2015 2:05 PM

Cpl Robert Clark — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:05:55 -0400

Two women passing Ranger school after being recycled 2X doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

Response by PO2 Angelika Laist made Aug 20 at 2015 2:12 PM

PO2 Angelika Laist — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:12:49 -0400

Unfortunately, we know that women have been there, but to civilians incidents like this are seen as an unfortunate circumstance of someone that should not even have been there. They make it the military's fault for putting women in harms way. Until the news of jobs for women in combat has officially spread, it is a taboo.
Im very happy that everyone here is so supportive of the subject. Ive had my toll with some Marines back in the day that didn't even think women(I) should even be in the military, and again, i had to prove myself by sending him to the hospital with a broken nose. (he assaulted me first)
So maybe the officiality of women in combat will finally stop us having to prove ourselves over and over again.

Response by LTC Nancy Bodyk (Retired) made Aug 20 at 2015 3:23 PM

LTC Nancy Bodyk (Retired) — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:23:54 -0400

Sir, thank you for sharing. I believe it's an individual's choice to serve regardless of gender. when you deploy, you're in combat and the other side isn't going to care whether you're combat arms or support. Obviously don't lower the standards, but if a woman wants to be combat arms and can meet existing male standards let her have the chance. Thank you for sharing the list.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Aug 20 at 2015 4:05 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:05:55 -0400

Id like to know, of the ladies who ever pass any Combat Arms training, if they will actually perform related tasks, or want to, or if they are just those types seeking something like a Ranger Tab for the bonus promotion points, which I find a waste of the resources to train them.

Response by SPC George Long made Aug 20 at 2015 5:19 PM

SPC George Long — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 17:19:58 -0400

#97 on your list is my wife's cousin Spc. Faith R. Hinkley, 23, RPG attack on unit in Iraq, Aug. 7, 2010.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Aug 20 at 2015 8:31 PM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:31:13 -0400

Ranger School reality check: Women have been fighting — and dying — alongside combat units for years ...

Women have been serving alongside Ranger units, and dying with them, for years now. The Army just didn’t let them train for it before.

Using the graduation of these two women to justify women’s participation in combat roles is a little like making Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg go back and get their college degrees to prove they can make it in the marketplace.

Women have been doing this stuff, with or without the little tab.

“The public may not realize it, but over 1,000 women have been killed or injured” in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Col. Ellen Haring, one of two Army Reserve officers who filed a first-of-its-kind lawsuit three years ago against the Defense Department and the Army for barring women from certain combat units and other jobs solely on the basis of their gender.

Read more at ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ranger-school-reality-check-women-have-been-fighting-and-dying-alongside-ranger-units-for-years/2015/08/20/1faf0a6c-4741-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html?hpid=z10

=========================================

Ranger School reality check: Women have been fighting — and dying — alongside combat units for...

Women are already on the front lines. They deserve to serve in combat units, with or without Ranger tabs.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 8:41 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:41:39 -0400

Well said....!

Response by SGT Michael DeLaGarza made Aug 20 at 2015 9:09 PM

SGT Michael DeLaGarza — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:09:30 -0400

Thank you for sharing this. It is vital that everyone understand that Women In the Military are just as combat ready as anyone. Women have served in combat since the battle against England for our Independence. I would follow and serve next to a woman in Combat. Some of the women I have known in the Military put some men to tears. So never underestimate anyone in combat.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 9:59 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:59:23 -0400

Thanks for sharing COL Charles Williams. I hope your friend can find some comfort in knowing her friend died doing what she loved to do. RIP 1LT Laura Walker.

Response by Cpl Arwen Bernard made Aug 21 at 2015 12:16 AM

Cpl Arwen Bernard — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:16:07 -0400

I'm glad the US Military is let women finally fight on front lines! I begged to do it back in 2001, but I follow Frejya and was called to combat as shieldmaiden. Women have been helping and in combat itself for well since fighting began we can hack it.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 21 at 2015 6:13 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 06:13:31 -0400

Questions like yours and the fact that some people don't think that women who serve(d) in the military are veterans blow my mind.

Thanks for sharing.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Aug 21 at 2015 9:34 AM

SSG Keith Cashion — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:34:21 -0400

I think people need to stop looking at gender. People need to look at the military for the uniform. I've worked in units with and without women, and have lead in those units as well. My theory on it was "We all wear the same uniform, so what one does, we all do." It worked, and I never had problems. If you meet the standard and can do the job, more power to you. Go get some.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Aug 21 at 2015 10:36 AM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:36:17 -0400

Excellent post and topic. Thanks for sharing.

Response by GySgt David Andrews made Aug 21 at 2015 11:15 AM

GySgt David Andrews — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:15:54 -0400

I agree with you that it is hard to put down my words on how I feel and what I understand about this subject. It creates more questions than answer for myself to look at. Like what today is construed as combat? Is it direct action where you have direct and indirect contact with the enemy on a daily basis with it being your job or is it any contact with the enemy? Is being hit by an IED combat or is it wrong place and wrong time? How far down does this go? I remember when infantry (Grunt) was the only true combat MOS everything else was support where you may get shot at or hit a booby trap? I don't know, does anyone else?

Response by GySgt David Andrews made Aug 21 at 2015 11:22 AM

GySgt David Andrews — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:22:56 -0400

First off if you served in the military and you meet the requirements you are a veteran. Second if you served in the AO designated by the Secretary of Defense you served in that operation. You may not have been in Iraq or Afgan but you were in direct support to those in combat I would say you are a OIF/OEF Veteran. Now the question to me is who is classified as a Combat Veteran? Anyone in Iraq or Afgan or only if you saw direct or maybe even indirect action?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 21 at 2015 11:47 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:47:54 -0400

Yes the 2 female rangers represent a Trojan Horse.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 3:42 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:42:09 -0400

While I do concur with some of the policy objectives advanced by the CMR, on this issue, they couldn't be more illogical or overtly emotional in their approach. To hear them tell it, these 144 Fallen Warriors, who just happen to be female, were involuntary victims of misguided policy decisions premised upon diversity and political correctness. Sadly, this plays well with the Conservative base that "supports the troops!" with lip service while lacking any true understanding or real connection with the Military. I know two women on this list. SPC Michelle Witmer was an MP assigned to the 32nd MP Company of the Wisconsin National Guard. She was killed in a firefight on 9 April 2004, earning the distinction of being the first-ever female National Guard Soldier killed in combat. As you read her name on this list, it makes note that SPC Witmer had two other sisters also in the Army. One of whom was with the 32nd in Iraq. These women were not victims! They were proud MPs and even though they were both given the option of one or the other staying with the rear-D, they would not hear of it. Their unit was mobilizing and deploying, and so were they!

The second Soldier I know on this list was my own Combat Medic, CPL Rachael L. Hugo, killed in an IED strike and SAF attack on 7 OCT 2007. As I type this, the sound of her memorial bracelet on my wrist occasionally clicks against the top of my laptop. CPL Hugo was an angel of mercy, both to my Soldiers when they were wounded as well as to the local Iraqi population she loved to interact with. If there was an opportunity to escape her normal duties at the Battalion Aid Station and mount up, she was all over it! It was on the return trip from one of these missions when the vehicle in which she was riding struck an IED, the blast ripping up and directly through the seat in which she was riding.

Civilians and armchair warriors can (and will) think what they want about women in combat, but if they think they are not already there they are late to the rodeo. But if they think of the women on this list as victims, and now seek to utilize this sacred roll to advance a political agenda, that makes them hypocrites and scum of the lowest garden variety!

Stand up and against this BS; don't let the names on this list become a chip in the poker game of politics!

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Aug 22 at 2015 1:02 PM

COL Jeff Williams — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:02:55 -0400

To serve is to serve, it makes no difference what your branch, MOS, or gender is, while deployed you stand a chance of being wounded or killed

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 22 at 2015 2:40 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:40:03 -0400

It depends on who you ask...

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Aug 22 at 2015 4:02 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 16:02:08 -0400

Women who are in Iraq and Afghanistan already in combat roles every time they on convoy missions.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 22 at 2015 9:16 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:16:00 -0400

COL Charles Williams Sir, I wanted to thank you for sharing this. I took the liberty of sharing the article attached to the FB page I manage for VFW Post 9972 here in AZ. I think we have a few "Good old boys" at the V whom I think could benefit from a good wake up call. Again, thanks for sharing this and the story of your friend. Be well, and may you stay blessed! :)

Response by PFC Michael Falderoff made Aug 22 at 2015 10:26 PM

PFC Michael Falderoff — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:26:21 -0400

Why not ?? The lines have been blurred for years. Warfare has changed since Vietnam. There is NO front line anymore.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 5 at 2015 4:50 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 16:50:53 -0500

In both the Army and Air Force women have been serving in Law Enforcement units (Military Police & Security Forces) for a very long time. Both MP's and SF have a function where more often than not, they get put where the shooting is. While serving in both, I don't ever recall having our females stand down just because we where going in harms way. They were expected to do the job that they trained for. This whole women in combat thing is being way overblown. Women soldiers have been dying right along side the men for quite a while.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 8 at 2015 12:55 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 00:55:27 -0500

Women have served the country since it's being founded. The conflicts we have been engaged in recently show us that ALL service members can be targeted and ALL of them need to have a warrior mentality and be able to employ small arms in their defense. There is a completely different set of skills and requirements for someone doing convoy and base security and someone who rucks up for days on end, patrols out and kicks in doors loking for the bad guys.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Dec 8 at 2015 4:14 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 16:14:50 -0500

I don't think the debate is about women entering combat roles because history has shown that they've filled those roles. It's fact, no discussion there. From what I see/read in the news and have been a part of discussion/debate is whether or not women should be allowed to serve in Combat Arms MOS's.

There have been multiple legitimate (non-ignorant/sexist) arguments made about why women should not serve in Combat Arms MOS's. The most common ones share a similar theme, moral decision-making. I can say (and I'm only speaking for myself here) that I would have a difficult time being an infantry leader with a female subordinate that I was responsible for. As a natural protector of women i would more than likely focus on maintaining her safety and that may or may not take away from the mission objectives, other soldiers, etc. The byproduct of this could manifest itself into resentment or other distention within the ranks that may place the entire group at risk since the objectives are not the 100% focus. I could not describe (in words) how I would be affected if a female subordinate was hurt/maimed/killed while under my responsibility. As a father, I would not want my daughter to serve in a Combat Arms MOS.

There are also cultural differences based on where/how we were raised. In combat environments, adrenaline levels spike considerably and emotions run very high (especially when the fecal matter has hit the rotary oscillator and bullets are flying in all directions).

It can be argued about logistics and hygiene issues; I mean you can't exactly call "Time out" during a firefight because someone is "spotting"....I think it's universally accepted that if s man is "spotting" it's probably because he's been shot somewhere.

Again, these are arguments that I've heard commonly. I'm neither for or against the idea but I can see the potential for negatives to outweigh the positives as a whole. As much as I'd like to say that men and women are equal, the reality is that we aren't. Equal rights, protections, fair treatments? Yes; however psychologically we are different and physiologically we are different as well. Both sexes have strengths and weaknesses as well as varying strengths/weaknesses within the same sexes.

I will be fair and acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule and it's those exceptions that often prove the rule. In order for the military to function properly, all aspects need to operate in synergy. Women and men in supporting roles (especially within the SOCOM units) are just as important as the operators and their involvement in the mission and its success is just as vital.

Response by LTC Eric Coger made Dec 9 at 2015 10:16 AM

LTC Eric Coger — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 10:16:11 -0500

There is a big difference between "serving in combat roles" and in being an 11B, 18 series, or 19D/K. The same reason some people on a patrol get a CAB and others get a CIB, just because you are there once or a hundred times doesn't mean that it is the sole purpose of your MOS for your career. Time will tell if this is a good, bad, or indifferent policy change.

But here on RP, we should be better than the public at large and the MSM in properly identifying what is going on and what isn't. Like most policy changes, the guys at the top make the changes from the top down but it is the Company Commander and First Sergeant that will have to implement it at the unit level.

A lot of changes will have to be made and it will cost a lot of money; this isn't to say it is the wrong or right policy, just that the regulations, and standards are still lacking and there is precious little time for the bureaucrats to type and sign away. I guess we will just SWAG it until more detailed guidance comes out/

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 10 at 2015 12:43 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:43:58 -0500

We should study Kurdish women fighters, but I have little faith we will do so.

Response by SSG Delanda Hunt made Dec 11 at 2015 11:18 PM

SSG Delanda Hunt — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:18:57 -0500

People let not confuse being in a Combat zone to being in the Combat arms. The Infantry, Armor and Field Artillery is no place for social experiments, this will not make us a more effective fighting force and it will cause a ton of problems. What's going to happen when the PC leaders don't get enough Woman in the Infantry and the few that make it will be on permanent profile after a few months or they will become pregnant. Remember Grunts didn't get pregnant before the social experiment. Lets not forget the claims of sexual harassment. Now what will happen when one of these Infantry girls claim harassment because the Platoon Sgt called her a "bitch", she might not understand that this is normal talk in an Infantry Platoon. Let the games begin. It want be long before the word gets out that the Infantry sucks and young men stop signing up for it. Now what? Morale is low and slots are not being filled, NCO's and Officers careers will be destroyed so someone can pretend to be something they never will be and that's one of the boys.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 2:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 14:28:31 -0500

Amen Sir!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 11:08 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 23:08:08 -0500

There is a difference between accidental contact versus deliberate contact.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 12:01 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 00:01:07 -0500

COL Charles Williams, my heart goes out to you, Sir. There is a person on this list that my brother was close to and had to bring home to her parents. There are no words to express the deep felt sympathy for such painful loss of life. Thank you for sharing something so personal.