Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?

SSG Robert Burns — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 01:15:17 -0400

So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?

Have the lines between male and female been erased?  Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.

ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.

*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/

Navy boot camp mulls no longer shaving recruits' heads

Women taking part in a three-month pilot program at boot camp will not be required to get their hair cut. A similar move is being considered for men.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 11:08 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:08:16 -0400

Not that hair standards should be that big of a deal anyway, but there are many points one could argue
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 11:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:24:12 -0400

Taking a look at civilian males, the males who have stable, higher paying jobs are the ones who usually have a better kept, well groomed hair style. With that being said, the lower enlisted (especially the ones who already have that "fuck it" attitude) would develope quite a homely appearance. If males were allowed to grow their hair like females(most, normal females quite enjoy pampering their hair)

Response by SPC David Beam made Apr 12 at 2014 11:34 AM

SPC David Beam — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:34:56 -0400

I do think their should be some further restriction on females hair standards in basic, if the same is going to be held true for males. Maybe not full on shaved, considering the fact that the normal standard isn't as short as males, but a shorter, uniform cut. I'm not even going to attempt to say how short, but something along those lines. You'd have a hard time arguing unequal treatment then.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 12 at 2014 12:14 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 12:14:00 -0400

The tradition of the shaved head during Basic/IET/OSUT has been around longer than I was a member of the Army. It was done to help eliminate any and all individualism within the ranks of the trainees, and prior to the elimination of the WAC, the Army's trainees were all male. Now, since we are becoming an all inclusive Army, with women being allowed to possibly join the combat arms MOSs, I feel that we either change the practice to mirror AR 670-1 standards, or subject the females to the same shaving of the heads as males.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 1:54 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 13:54:04 -0400

I apologize in advance for my rant.

If getting your head shaved in basic is a deal breaker, then maybe that individual shouldn't be joining in the first place.

With all the other training we had to squeeze into the schedule, I'm glad I didn't have to figure out a time to get my hair cut every week.

Every person has a certain amount of "Army" stuff they have to do that does not pertain to their MOS, but we do these things because we enjoy the service or just need the service. If you can't go with out hair for 4 months, then maybe these other little sacrifices you have to make are going to be too much also.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 5:22 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 17:22:44 -0400

Females aren't going to just give up their femininity. Especially the ones who have worked for months to get their hair just so.
So go ahead and grumble and gripe. Not going to change anything.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 6:07 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:07:31 -0400

As a Drill Sergeant I am all for males getting there heads shaved simply because you do not have time to get 200 male Soldiers threw the PX and Haircuts all within a hour or two time block. Fort Jackson graduates almost 1000 Soldiers a week here and there barber shop depending on what side of post has maybe 3-5 barbers in it. That is just my opinion though. Simply do not have time.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Apr 12 at 2014 8:03 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 20:03:03 -0400

I say shave everything. A lice infestation would detract from training.<br>

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 11:42 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 23:42:57 -0400

This is a silly question.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2014 2:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Apr 2014 02:17:04 -0400

I think it is safe to say it is easier if males get their head shaved in BCT. Once their hair gets too long and is out of regs, there is no way to fix it besides getting it cut again. We all remember how busy we were in BCT. It seems to help eliminate them being out of regs more often in my opinion. Females if their hair is getting too long to where it is out of regs, they can put it up. Females can always fix their hair on the spot, a male can't really do that. That's how i see the whole situation anyways.

Response by SGT John Schaphorst made Apr 14 at 2014 12:05 AM

SGT John Schaphorst — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:05:51 -0400

If women want equality, then it only seems fair that they should be treated just like males during basic training. 

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 2:04 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 02:04:54 -0400

I was always told the buzz cut for males is for hygienical purposes. I'm a firm believer that if females want equality it should be in everything, including the same standards in the field. If i go to the field for 2 weeks and females were to be in my infantry platoon i would expect them to have the same amenities and live just like us. I can see where this would be viewed as a not entirely equal situation. To some extent i agree that if they want total equality they would have to participate in such actions; but, you also have to imagine the outcry that would result from making a woman shave her head. Just think about all the bad publicity. I would even go as far as saying that they would claim its just men trying to discourage women from joining, and that would definitely bring some bad attention in an age where they're trying to push women into all combat MOS's.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 10:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 22:45:33 -0400

If you make one then you should make the other, it's only fair.

Response by MSG Martin C. made May 10 at 2014 8:39 AM

MSG Martin C. — Sat, 10 May 2014 08:39:08 -0400

I was a DS for 4 years and the haircuts is nothing more than uniformity and time constrains. We get time slots allocated every 2 weeks for haircuts we are on a schedule timeline exactly 30-40 minutes for PX and cuts. Unfortunately we don't have time to allow soldiers to get fades high and tights etc. Everyone gets the FT Jackson special 0 all arround until graduation. If someone's gets they desire cut in the middle of training and that hairs grows out of regulation within a week we cannot accommodate barber visits to those individuals. Bottom line it's about time lines and uniformity basic training it's 9 weeks after that in AIT they may get whatever they feel like.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 10 at 2014 9:59 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Sat, 10 May 2014 09:59:56 -0400

Only 'right' answer in our Army culture is 'Only males should have their heads shaved'. If they change the regulation, then I can give a different answer BUT we can think women should, or should not, shave their hair and the men should be able to grow a beard or have their hair in bun but, thank the Lord, we have not sank so far as an Army that the regulation allows such things.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2014 11:03 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 May 2014 11:03:13 -0400

I do think it is only because of tradition that us males have and had our heads shaved. But I think it should be continued as a tradition.

Response by CPT Marc Serrá made May 10 at 2014 12:07 PM

CPT Marc Serrá — Sat, 10 May 2014 12:07:31 -0400

There should be one standard for a Soldier...male or female...in all things, not just hair.

As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.

As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.

After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made May 10 at 2014 12:15 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Sat, 10 May 2014 12:15:11 -0400

Hair has nothing to do with gender equality, there is more of a psychological effect in forcing women to shave their hair off, than on men. I do not have proof of this, but I'm sure I could if I cared to do the research.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2014 1:34 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 May 2014 13:34:03 -0400

Since the male standards are stricter, a shaved head will prevent them from having to go to the barber every other week, depending on the rate at which the recruit's hair grows. Females should at least be able to pin/arrange the hair into regulations, but if it cannot then it must be shortened.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 10 at 2014 5:37 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 10 May 2014 17:37:58 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles )

Tradition

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2014 12:47 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 May 2014 00:47:55 -0400

Although it has already been mentioned it's a dead horse worth beating. If a Soldier is required to pay for a hair cut, that Soldier should have the of any style IAW AR 670-1

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made May 11 at 2014 12:53 AM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Sun, 11 May 2014 00:53:30 -0400

In today's world enforce the standard.
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 11 at 2014 12:01 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 11 May 2014 12:01:53 -0400

We want equality but we are keeping some societal norms.

Response by Sgt Randy Hill made May 21 at 2014 1:05 PM

Sgt Randy Hill — Wed, 21 May 2014 13:05:49 -0400

wow I felt great with a shaved head training in the heat.The DI's do not have time to get everyone in standard without the crash course called the buzzcut.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made May 21 at 2014 10:30 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Wed, 21 May 2014 22:30:21 -0400

I'm kind of wondering how you know a female has 20 feet of hair if the only time she can have her hair down in BCT is in the shower lol.

You're right. We should all shave our heads. We should all have to get Army mandated "Women's Wellness Exams", except now we'll call them "Soldier Wellness Exams". Yeah...let's see how well the men deal with that considering that is required for every female regardless of their age.

Come on y'all, let's stop allowing the folks on Capital Hill to pit us against each other. Y'all can have stupid Ranger School, let me keep my hair. Deal? :)

Response by LCpl Jessica Chaney made May 22 at 2014 2:53 AM

LCpl Jessica Chaney — Thu, 22 May 2014 02:53:20 -0400

I got reprimanded because one of my Sgt majors thought my hair was to short. I think if it can stay neat and out of the way it shouldn't matter but the regs give male marines 0 to 3

Response by SGT Shon D. Hill made May 22 at 2014 10:16 AM

SGT Shon D. Hill — Thu, 22 May 2014 10:16:39 -0400

I'm shocked this topic has spun up such a massive response! I finally bucked up on hazing topic and disagreed due to it's connection with our mission, WAR COMBAT, along with Civilians on here too! Hazing discussion now, I'm a vet now, but it's huge!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 10:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 10:32:46 -0400

People need to get overthemselves....going bald for 10wks wont destroy a lifetime of servitude... Yes traditionally going back to Roman times(read about it and understand why)Soldiers cut their hair all or very closely off. It is not a matter of what is detrmined to be considered hazing. Guess what if you dont want to cut all your hair off then dont join the military I am sick and tired of all the dang whining on standards. If you dont like it get the heck out...I have 1000s daily waiting to fill the ranks willing to do what is required to meet standards.. Caveat...is it hazing if I dont wear a suit to church that requires one? WOuld that be acceptable discirmination suit in a civil court. How about wearing uniforms at civilian jobs is it hazing if I dont feel comfortable wearing it because the job requires it.... We are PROFESSIONALS... and the demand for perfection and superiority over our civlian counterparts who demand to be secured through our forces requires a little thicker skin; ability to adapt; and willingness to trian in poor and degraded environments so we can execurte what those are unwilling to do themselves(civilians). You dont enlist to be like BURGER KING and "BE YOUR WAY" you enlist to do something more important than what a normal person can do. Be professional; ENDURE THE PAIN; TRAIN TO FIGHT; and accept nothing less than SUCCESSFUL SPIRIT and ACCOMPLISHMENT OF MISSION TASKS. That is what SERVICEMEMBERS do...

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made May 22 at 2014 11:52 AM

SFC Stephen Carden — Thu, 22 May 2014 11:52:18 -0400

The head shaving, to me, represents the beginning of the transition from civilian to Soldier. It is part of the necessary steps to tear down the weak, sniveling civilian and build him or her back up again into a strong, capable Soldier! Plus, it would be so funny to see the females right after they shave their heads!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 11:55 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 11:55:51 -0400

Shave em' both bald. Builds character.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made May 22 at 2014 12:31 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Thu, 22 May 2014 12:31:24 -0400

During my time if a SM shaved his head and got a sunburn, he would be subject to an Article 15 for damaging Government Property. Enforced was the Army Standard haircut and shave, when questioned why at my time did was the Navy allowed to have a bearded, sailors out at sea cant catch lice's, we whom train in wooded area do or can. Please note that in my time, we didn't have to many females so if females in todays Armed Forces also train in the wooded areas, as I seen in my later years, this kind of brings up a new topic as to the logic of lice's or crabs as we would call them in Korea (Little chingo's (little friends)).

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 22 at 2014 12:43 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 22 May 2014 12:43:15 -0400

What's good for one is good for all and good for the service.

Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 3:49 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 15:49:56 -0400

I think in basic training, the head shaving is part of the "breaking down" of the person. Your gaining a new identity so shaving the head is part of erasing that identity you had before the military. It drives into your head(literally) that your part of the government you can't do what you want. Also it makes everyone uniform. Now with the females, in afi says that women are allowed short hair but it can't be shaved.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 3:53 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 15:53:23 -0400

Men have to have their heads shaved....women are to have their hair in that crazy tight bun...I'd rather have my head shaved then deal with that bun

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 5:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 17:02:45 -0400

I know I will get hate mail from every female that reads this but I really do not care. I read through the comments and seen comments like I needed a job and I came in the army so I could work and what not bottom line is this if the army said during basic training everyone will shave their heads and your reply is then I would have never joined then maybe this is not the profession for you. I don't like the fact that I have to shave my face every morning when I wake up but that is the standard set forth so I do it. If you are not willing to make sacrifices then chances are you will not make it this is not just a way to make money. we all need to rely on each other while deployed to survive and if you are raising a stink about how it would make you feel like less of a female if they told you to shave your head then that is a problem when I go to work I do not look at male Soldiers and Female Soldiers I only see Soldiers. I am getting off topic here but bottom line if a standard is set and you would refuse to follow it what else would you refuse to do? However the army does not ask you to do this so really for right now it is a non issue.

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made May 22 at 2014 5:18 PM

SSG Christopher Freeman — Thu, 22 May 2014 17:18:01 -0400

I will share a quote from my DS. "If you want hair, you will earn it." Mind you, there were no females in our basic. I believe they mostly do it for time constraints.

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made May 22 at 2014 8:07 PM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Thu, 22 May 2014 20:07:55 -0400

When I went to boot camp in 1983 we as females had to have our hair cut, granted not short but it could not be past your collar and most girls ended up with a very unattractive bob if they did not get hair cut before coming to boot camp. The reason hair is shaved is not for hazing but for personal hygiene reasons. Nat all people are clean when they head off to boot camp. So by shaving head it is a quick way to make sure there are no bugs!! Also there was a female I went to boot camp with that they did make her shave her head because she came to boot camp with rainbow colored hair.

Response by Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn made May 22 at 2014 8:20 PM

Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn — Thu, 22 May 2014 20:20:06 -0400

To explain my response: military grooming standards are a reflection of social expectations, and the different standards for and treatment of male and female recruits is a subset of that. I can't say that I loved having my head shaved when I reported for Marine Recruit Training, but there were plenty of experiences that aggravated me even more of the following 13 weeks. As long as women have the appropriate grooming standard for their gender applied, I view this as a non-issue. Does anyone actually want to see female recruits with buzz cuts like a bunch of wannabe GI Janes? Please.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 11:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 23:06:48 -0400

I wish we could have had more haircuts. Every other week at Basic in the summer heat was not enough in my opinion. As far as females go; If they want to keep their hair, fine. I couldn't imagine trying to keep it all clean or have to constantly fix my bun or whatever. I really don't think hair has anything to do with fairness or equality (and they are not the same thing) and your hair is your own problem.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 23 at 2014 2:11 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Fri, 23 May 2014 02:11:11 -0400

As a right of passage it should be universal.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 9:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 09:03:53 -0400

So I have read many of the comments here and alot of them say keep it equal and make women shave their heads. My question is this, why not make the males grow their hair out and pull it into a bun everyday like we have to. Make the males have the same standards as the females. Thats equal right? I am just saying, alot of people keep talking about equality and females conforming to the males standards, but no one thinks about reversing that role. Oh and for the record I don't think anyone should be forced to shave their head as long as they are within regulation I don't see an issue.

Response by SFC Rich Carey made May 23 at 2014 10:05 AM

SFC Rich Carey — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:05:01 -0400

What does hair have to do with it? What about some of our special groups - you see them with long hair and breads (not women although one thread was talking about a female having a moustache)
Funny how we judge people based upon their looks instead of their qualities - for example actors

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 10:10 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:10:48 -0400

We still need to allow differences between men and women. Where would it stop if we expected woman to have the same cuts as men? What would be next? Compression wraps around there breast to make them look more male? Is anyone else agreeing with me here? LOl

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 10:27 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:27:44 -0400

What I was told dealing with the hair when I went through was, males got their heads shaved to save time throughout the basic. That way they didn't have to take time out of the schedule of classes set up for us to instead get hair cuts weekly. Females don't have to worry about this because they can put their hair up. So, thinking that way, it doesn't come down to equality, but to convenience for the services to teach us.

Response by Sgt Arthur Went made May 23 at 2014 10:35 AM

Sgt Arthur Went — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:35:45 -0400

I believe in boot-camp both men and women should have their heads shaved for the reason of hygiene and easier maintenance.All the combat and field training a recruit goes through.

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made May 23 at 2014 11:05 AM

SSG Robin Rushlo — Fri, 23 May 2014 11:05:24 -0400

I found that for Infantry basic and AIT shaved head worked very good. If the females want to get in the Combat arms then HEAD shaved otherwise within standards.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 11:25 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 11:25:39 -0400

As A drill Sergeant that was stationed at Fort Jackson, the shaved heads, helped keep the Basic training timeline going. if we would let all the male soldiers get a tapered cut,(which takes time) the 1 hour Block would be blown to hell. And just hygiene for male would be easier as a whole....but just my opinion!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 1:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 13:31:50 -0400

I also feel if females can have their hair long or short as should I, I'm for 100 percent the same standard. I would have my long flowing locks in a too standard bun during duty hours .

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 1:47 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 13:47:47 -0400

I was instructed at the Cadre Training Course that Basic Training Soldiers cannot be force to shave their head IAW TRADOC 350-6. As long as they get a Hair Cut that's in reg they are fine.

Response by SPC Daniel Edwards made May 23 at 2014 3:03 PM

SPC Daniel Edwards — Fri, 23 May 2014 15:03:21 -0400

Maybe not shave all the female's hair off and make them bald. Maybe just have them all be the same length. If one of the females has shorter hair than the others, she can keep it but it wouldn't be allowed to get farther than a certain length like say a couple of inches above the shoulders

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 7:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 19:15:14 -0400

It has been awhile since I was in basic training. The shaving of the head in more out of necessity, you don't have the luxury of getting a hair cut every week to keep a haircut in regs.

Response by LCpl Jessica Chaney made May 27 at 2014 10:29 AM

LCpl Jessica Chaney — Tue, 27 May 2014 10:29:16 -0400

I got reprimanded because one of my Sgt majors thought my hair was to short. I think if it can stay neat and out of the way it shouldn't matter but the regs give male marines 0 to 3

Response by SGT Thomas Sullivan made May 27 at 2014 11:42 AM

SGT Thomas Sullivan — Tue, 27 May 2014 11:42:21 -0400

With the lines being erased as far as combat arms is concerned between males and females, I feel that cutting a woman's hair short offers no problems at all and should be done along with everyone else. Not only is it a great equalizer between both sexes, it offers a way of "cleansing away" your old life, bringing about a new one.. symbolically.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 4 at 2014 1:56 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 04 Jun 2014 01:56:31 -0400

On more than a few occasions when I have shaved my head I was told I look like a Buddhist monk.

Response by PO3 Jody Wangen made Sep 7 at 2014 7:24 AM

PO3 Jody Wangen — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:24:29 -0400

when I was in navy in 85 female haircut within regs was required. males got shaved.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 4:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:25:25 -0400

Hair standards have to comply within Army regulations at all times. At basic training, how often do you get to get a haircut? With a big company, do you think everyone wants to wait for each Soldier to spend 10 - 15 minutes sitting in the barber's chair. That is ridiculous.

Female hair standards mandate hair can be no shorter than 1/4 inch from the scalp. That means no G.I. Jane haircuts.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 29 at 2014 9:56 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:56:02 -0500

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting. We fight and fight for equality on all levels and now that we have opened our combat MOS's this is the first time I even thought about this. I was under the impression that we shaved our heads as a hygiene issue as well as a social "transformation" Looks like we have several options. We all shave our heads as equals, or we come up with some lame excuse why only men should do it (and if we disagree =sexist). It will be interesting how this issue would be spun if it even got placed on the agenda.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 10:05 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 22:05:20 -0500

Men should be in standards the way women can, or we could all do what the navy does and women get a super short hair cut so that we still have the "hazing" as the men do. I also feel women should not be allowed to dye their hair in basic. You know your date in advance, get back to natural and dye it again after you get through basic.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 11:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 23:11:34 -0500

It would be a greater equalizer, hmm? Do you want to serve enough to at least, shave your head? Vanity or service to country? My guess is that there would be far fewer females in the ranks. Personally, I looked ridiculous in BCGs and a bun anyway. May as well have just lopped it off. Honestly, would have saved being screamed at when the bun fell during PT.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Nov 30 at 2014 1:04 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:04:44 -0500

SSG Robert Burns: Got my head buzzed at the reception station at Fort Jackson in late OCT69. Went through BCT and AIT there, and was starting to finally starting to look somewhat human again. Got to Fort Benning on the weekend before jump school started, and of course, after the Black Hats yelled and yelled at us, they told us to get down to the barbershop and ask for an Airborne Trim. Sure enough, it got buzzed again! It grows back, so I did not see it as a big deal. Happened again at SF school and then again at OCS.
As far as women are concerned, I'm old school (already declared that on another thread) and I don't really wish to see any women with heads shaved, military or civilian, unless circumstances (most usually military) require it. In this instance, I'm glad for the differences in the standards. Frankly, Sinéad O'Connor (the only notable woman I can think of at the moment with a shaved head), looks better with hair on her head. That's just me though, and I'm an old retired guy. SSG V. Michelle Woods SPC Private RallyPoint Member SFC Private RallyPoint Member SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
1LT Private RallyPoint Member, these are my other thoughts on the subject!

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Nov 30 at 2014 1:17 AM

PO3 Shaun Taylor — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:17:49 -0500

I understand the reasoning for the males getting their haircut and the manner in which they do it. I just wish I knew before hand that they require everyone to be shaved regardless. I had just gotten my haircut the day before.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 1:44 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 01:44:04 -0500

I think shaving heads is the quickest and easiest way to get everyone's hair within regs

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 4:12 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 04:12:31 -0500

Nope not interested in seeing bald women running around. Need to have some differences.

Response by FA Everett Oaks made Nov 30 at 2014 12:15 PM

FA Everett Oaks — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 12:15:14 -0500

I have never been a person of political correctness so here it goes. I think that women are in a lot of roles they don't belong. IE. There should have never been a female prisoner taken from a supply unit lost in a logistical error. She should have never been there. They should have been left in state side and behind lines support. As for the men you will be ordered to do things that require total submission to your superior. The first step in learning this is to get rid of your own identity. I have hair half way to my ass now and I like it. But becoming a raisin as a first sacrifice though small compared to what may come. It's learning how to follow your superiors that is important. So keep cutting it off. I'm proof it will grow back lol.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 3 at 2014 2:58 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:58:39 -0500

Equal means equal, right? It is hard to play both sides of the fence.

Response by SSG Jason Cherry made Dec 3 at 2014 3:24 PM

SSG Jason Cherry — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 15:24:20 -0500

Someone else on here already said it, but I will say it again. If the Soldier is paying for the haircut, they should be able to get it cut however they want so long as it is within regulation.

However, in BCT I think that shaving men's heads is more efficient in both time and money. Less haircuts, requiring less time to do, less often. Saves the Army time, and saves the soldier money.

That having been said, I think females should have a set of styles to choose from that would accomplish the same. Something that is well within regulations that will be easy to maintain and wont require trips to the salon as often.

The whole point is to strip the individuality and make everyone face the same hardships together and form a bond, so everyone should have to sacrifice a little something to achieve that end...equally.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 3:30 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 15:30:59 -0500

BLUF: Stay within the standards. I don't understand the rest of the argument, unless there is a hygiene issue. I was the AF Med Planner in Africa the last two years and females are forced to shave their heads as children due to hygiene/sanitation issues, but if your family/village could afford to have you shower in anything better than sewage water, they allow the female to grow out their hair.

We fortunately have the infrastructure and clean water to shower and maintain styles according to personal preference and in the military, in line with the regs. For females, it is easier to put longer hair into a clean bun away from the face. I don't see why a male or female has to shave their head bald and how does a female shaving their head make her more equal to a male? I've seen shorter cuts on females that look great but a bald GI Jane would be more distracting than a female with a standard bun.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 4 at 2014 12:56 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 04 Dec 2014 12:56:29 -0500

Same treatment, same opportunities, same standards. Remove sex-based language and treatment.

Marine Recruits should have their heads shaved, it simplifies hygiene and the mental transition.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 3:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:44:34 -0500

Simply put, TRADOC 350-6 appendix K-4d. All males will get "buzz cut" at reception.
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 10:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:17:40 -0500

Shaved for male and at least a long fade for females. This would help with not only the hygiene aspect but the transition part from civilian to warrior mode.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 6 at 2014 3:26 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 15:26:00 -0500

As long as there are different standards for men and women, there will always be inequalities. They should all be the same. Let everyone prove themselves.

Response by Cpl Rick West made Dec 6 at 2014 3:23 PM

Cpl Rick West — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 15:23:38 -0500

In the Marine Corps, Everyone gets their heads shaved to put them all on the same level.
Everyone starting out in the military should be put on the same level. No one is better
then anyone else. You all are the same. You will all be brought from the ground up.
You will all be brought up from civilian life to military. That's how we become brothers and
sisters of blood and fire.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 4:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 16:57:07 -0500

SHAVE YOUR FREAKING MUG!!!!!!! If you are a recruit or a boot or whatever you are when in boot camp!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 6:01 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:01:50 -0500

My understanding is that it was origionally done in early 1900's for sanitary reasons. Head lice was more prevalent back then. Now it is a hold over. Probably just makes in processing more expedient.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 6:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:11:41 -0500

There are two reasons why United States Army Soldiers receive q-ball haircuts at Reception upon reporting for Basic Combat Training. The first and main reason is hygiene. The other is uniformity in the process of the Initial Entry Training Soldier's transformation from civilian to United States Army Soldier.

This requirement is a norm in all branches of military service. Part of being a Soldier is presenting a neat uniformed military appearance. While equality is important the anatomy and physical make up of a man is different than a woman. While some females have more of an X-cromazone than other woman scientifically these are rare instances. In the Master Fitness course you learn basic things like how much easier it is for woman to have hip and pelvis problems.

This said Soldier's should be treated equally while understanding that no one person is built the same. We have endomorphic, endomorphic, mesomorphic and other body types where such an example of why having the same hair grooming standards accross the board is mute.

We no longer break Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airman or Coastguardsman down and build them back up. We take the pisative and negative from our new brother's and sister's building upon such while teaching, coaching, and mentoring them into technicaly and tactically proficient service members with the tools to be successful in anything they do.

It is not about taking their identity away or being a dictatorship in that Soldiers can still be individuals. We just empower them to be better than what they were and push them harder than they have ever been pushed before. Everyone has a breaking point while it is not to see how hard core they can be in that it is to make them proud of having chose a lifestyle which is a profession where it is no longer about the individual, but the team and that in what is greater than all of us in that we fight for our fellow Soldier's.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the United States Army hair groin standards so long as a Soldiers hair does not appear unkept, impeding the proper wear of their headgear, or look fadish while ensuring we continue to adhere and abide by TRADOC 350-6 while in unitial entry training status and AR 670-1thereafter.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 9:52 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:52:05 -0500

I say shoulder length mandatory.

Response by SSG John Erny made Dec 9 at 2014 3:17 PM

SSG John Erny — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 15:17:33 -0500

Look at your history people, at one time head lice were a big problem, this is where we get the modern military hair cut. We had a case of body lice powder in the Air Items warehouse at bragg, question is why was it in the air items warehouse?

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Dec 29 at 2014 4:04 AM

MSgt Rob Weston — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 04:04:36 -0500

Initially shaving the head of new male recruits came about to prevent lice epidemic, the standards now not only keep thing militarily professional, but prevent lice as well. As for the ladies, I don't have an answer and won't try to speculate why.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 9 at 2015 12:00 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 00:00:13 -0500

Someone out there us reading my posts.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/

Navy boot camp mulls no longer shaving recruits' heads

Women taking part in a three-month pilot program at boot camp will not be required to get their hair cut. A similar move is being considered for men.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Jan 9 at 2015 12:08 AM

MSG Mitch Dowler — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 00:08:50 -0500

More Obama administration political correctness out of control. Unintended consequences never ending. What if the male happens to identify as female that day? What if he doesn't feel comfortable unless he bunks with women and showers with them? The limits to all types of perversion are tossed out the window. This is not about liberty but about undermining the foundations of our culture.

Response by MGySgt George W Iliffe Jr made Jan 22 at 2015 5:44 PM

MGySgt George W Iliffe Jr — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 17:44:00 -0500

reasons for cutting all the hair off male recruits is for sanitation and for uniformity. Take away their individuality when they all look the same.
I think all woman recruits should have their hair cut to hang no more then two inches below their ear

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2015 12:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 May 2015 00:16:06 -0400

Females can't (some did when I was in BCT at Ft. Sill in 2000 and got in trouble). We have to look "feminine". I don't think that men should have to shave theirs though. Just keep it within the regs

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Sep 1 at 2015 2:54 PM

TSgt Melissa Post — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:54:55 -0400

It was my understanding that shaving a guy's head was one way to break him down. There are some things that you just can't make equal. If guys get to keep their hair, girls should get to keep their makeup and nail polish. Sounds ridiculous and I think there could be bigger things to debate over but that is my take. It isn't an equality thing.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 5:26 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:26:52 -0400

When I went through Navy boot camp (in '97) I was given to understand there was a system to the haircut styles we got so that the instructors could tell what week you were in with just a look (hence they got upset with recruits who tried to go Bic).
I really think females should get the same hair treatment in boot camp. From what I saw it would be a mercy, Styling hair in 7 minutes that'll stay regulation all day sounds like a significant challenge. I'm pretty sure instructors could probably gauge what week the female companies were in as well based on how much of a hot mess they looked like.
After basic, I honestly feel we should have one standard: if keeping hair bound and up is good enough for safety for part of the force, why should there be a more restrictive reg based on nothing practical. I don't confine this idea to gender differences only, if 1/4 inch facial hair allows a seal good enough for those with certain skin characteristics, what's the point in enforcing shaving on part of the military.
Regulations are an important part of military life, but they should be based in real practicalities; if I'm wrong, someone please point out some examples where mere appearance won battles.

Response by SFC Christopher Springs made Sep 20 at 2015 10:43 PM

SFC Christopher Springs — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:43:52 -0400

When new recruits join the military they come from all walks of life. It is very difficult to teach people that in essence we are all the same. This is demonstrated by the myriad view and comments listed below to your question. However the tradition of shaving heads is a way of showing new soldier to look past thier differences and come together as a team to acxomplish the mission. This is part of what makes our military the greatest in the world.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 10:23 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:23:46 -0400

It's sad that no one any longer questions the actions done to the majority and no one sees the hypocrisy in having two standards. Either everyone's heads are shaved or none have to be. Don't sexually discriminate. I think everyone should be shaved. It is a rite of passage. It's surrendering appearance and common public norms for something greater and more important with a sole focus on toe development as a service member.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Apr 18 at 2017 10:15 AM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 10:15:21 -0400

When I went through (admittedly ages ago) it was a speed and uniformity issue. Men looked uniform and women looked uniform in their own respective groups. If we had kept a reasonable amount of hair I guarantee, people would not be out the barracks in a timely fashion for the next training event.(just want to get that flip just right). Since I was in San Antonio during July and August and temps were 110-115 degrees plus, the wet cap on the head was worth more than gold! loved the breeze through my head bristle standing in front of a big *ss fan!

Response by SGT Eric Hawkins made Apr 22 at 2017 4:08 PM

SGT Eric Hawkins — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:08:55 -0400

It's a very quick way to bring all male soldiers within Army standards regarding hair length, it reduces the risk of lice, takes away individuality, and ensures uniformity. The "tradition" of shaving the heads of soldiers can also be traced to the ancients that shaved their heads to eliminate a weakness. Enemies could use the hair to control the direction of the head. (Ie: pull your head back to cut your throat)

Response by GySgt Michael Chapman made Apr 22 at 2017 5:16 PM

GySgt Michael Chapman — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:16:48 -0400

I haven't looked at any other responses, so this may have already been said.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Apr 22 at 2017 5:18 PM

Cpl Gabriel F. — Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:18:12 -0400

Outstanding question. Have been asking since first female cadet accepted to military academies. OFFICIAL DoD ANSWER: Degrading to women. Same pay different standards. Same pay with corporate style of advance and promotion due to need to file slots with a female.
During my time very few recruit head shaving was accomplished without blood letting. Recruit requirement head shaved was for primary hygiene. Close cropped hair, high and tight after primary shave to maintain cleanliness free of head lice for long period of time in the field or combat without shower or soap. All ranks to appear the same.

Response by LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr made Apr 23 at 2017 5:59 AM

LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 05:59:48 -0400

I think it is to create a sense of sameness. Everyone looks alike. Same go fasts, same silver sweatshirts, same unbloused / bloused utilities, same shaved heads letting you know that we are all equally worthless no matter if were a dark green recruit or a light green recruit until we graduate with that EGA and our title of Marine.

Response by PFC Griff Schoen made Apr 23 at 2017 12:57 PM

PFC Griff Schoen — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:57:24 -0400

I was informed, way back when I entered basic, that it was a hygiene issue for when we are doing field exercises. I had a glorious mullet when i enlusted and nearly cried when they shaved it but i got over it. Prevention of critters getting in your hair or something. That said, women should have shaved heads in basic.

Response by SSG Elyzabeth Cromer made Oct 31 at 2017 12:02 AM

SSG Elyzabeth Cromer — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 00:02:26 -0400

When I went to basic (Fort Leonard Wood 1995) there was a female recruit who had very short hair, a buzz cut. They made her grow it out, said it was "faddish" . I think the reality was they couldn't easily tell she was a female from any distance. Imagine trying to figure out at any given time which trainees are female because they all have shaved heads. Much harder to make sure no fratenization is happening among the recruits. Females having hair makes it easier for the Cadre to track everybody.

Response by SSG Elyzabeth Cromer made Oct 31 at 2017 12:14 AM

SSG Elyzabeth Cromer — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 00:14:34 -0400

Most if not all Army Basic is co-ed, there may be some single station training units that are not but I can't think of any.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Nov 26 at 2017 11:59 AM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 11:59:35 -0500

SSG Robert Burns: Staff Sergeant Burns: we females also got our hair shaved off in Basic Training. Or, at least we got our hair cut very short. -Most Sincerely, Margaret C. Higgins U.S. Army Retired

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2017 12:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:28:56 -0500

I believe it's an import aspect of the transition from civilians life, and while my first reaction is that both males and females should get the same haircut, it is also clear that this could adversely impact recruiting of females into the military. Perhaps the shortest possible haircut that is still within regulations would be a better choice.

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Nov 26 at 2017 1:17 PM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 13:17:25 -0500

Whatevs. I'd still look good bald.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Nov 26 at 2017 3:01 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 15:01:37 -0500

Makes sense for both to be the same

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 26 at 2017 3:53 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 15:53:58 -0500

Shaving a guy's head is just a transition from civilian to military life. Women don't look good with shaved heads. After all these years, I still keep mine Basic-training short.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Nov 28 at 2017 8:42 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:42:45 -0500

Is this really an issue? Wow!

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Dec 2 at 2017 5:37 AM

MAJ Raymond Haynes — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 05:37:16 -0500

Head shaving in boot camp serves several purposes. From a personal hygene view a shaved head is simple and fast to keep clean. With the standard 15 sec. shower, the head area can be properly cleaned. From a training schedual view, shaving reduces the barber time per recruit. From a transition from civilan to military view, the removal of a persons hair plays a significant role in removing a persons personal idenity, it is part of the change of mindset toward the 'military is a team' outlook. In essence it removes one of the strongest elements of personal idenity, which removes a large section of the personal outlook, to support planned team building events later in the program.

Response by SPC Zam Iel made Feb 14 at 2018 3:18 PM

SPC Zam Iel — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:18:57 -0500

For basic training there should be ONE standard for haircuts period.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2018 7:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:24:19 -0500

In 1972 you had a choice, but if you didn't get it shaved, be ready to be a target for the Drill Sargents. Females had to have it short enough to tuck their hair under their head cover.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2018 3:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 May 2018 15:52:41 -0400

I'll bite the bullet and say it out right. Women should have to do it just like the men. Call me a ass but it is what it is. They want and expect/demand equal treatment/duties/responsibilities until it comes to something they don't want. Once out of basic...cool. Basic...break em down ND build them up just like a man. I'll bend on number of push ups or pull ups to pass pt standards but every other aspect...nope.

Response by SGT Barry Mccoy made May 30 at 2018 11:44 PM

SGT Barry Mccoy — Wed, 30 May 2018 23:44:14 -0400

It's all about uniformity for the men and the women are cut in unity for there first cut

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made May 31 at 2018 1:34 AM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Thu, 31 May 2018 01:34:10 -0400

the shaving of the head is to show everyone they are the same and part of the rebirth into something better. their also medical reason aka get rid of lice issue and such.

as to why females dont have to shave their heads, i doubt many women would view that as a deal breaker and refuse to enlist.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made May 31 at 2018 7:04 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Thu, 31 May 2018 19:04:00 -0400

Males it was to take away individuality for the breakdown of the males. This was done to facilitate the build up of them. Lice was the issue initially. Females should have their head shaved also. Equal pay, equal rights, equal treatment.

Response by SPC Jerry Doc Daugherty made May 31 at 2018 7:13 PM

SPC Jerry Doc Daugherty — Thu, 31 May 2018 19:13:06 -0400

I have no problem with males having their hair shaved off. I went into the Army in 85' and that was when hair was still long for men. I had should length hair. I was ready to get it shaved, no big deal! I kept it high and right until I got out and grew my hair back out but then got it cut high and tight. When I started working at a prison, I started out high and tight but changed to shaved head again! The point is it's all right to have your head shaved. It gives the group a sense of belonging! I don't believe it qualifies as hazing!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2018 8:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 May 2018 20:11:27 -0400

Yeah agreed it’s a time thing. You don’t need to be fancy while in basic not enough time. I had it done and I didn’t care. It only takes like 1-2 months to grow it out to a normal look once your out.

Response by LCDR Tim McKenzie made May 31 at 2018 9:50 PM

LCDR Tim McKenzie — Thu, 31 May 2018 21:50:59 -0400

They should all get shaved. There should be one PT standard also.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2018 10:28 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 May 2018 22:28:28 -0400

You really want to know why there are hair standards for men... c’mon.... figure it out. Ever see a combat head wound? They bleed, they f’n bleed a lot. As a medic I don’t have time to be searching through your matted, blood soak hair to find a wound. Ever try to dress and bandage a head wound with blood soaked hair??? It F’n slips off!!!! So, typically women are not in combat, thus they can have long, beautiful locks of hair. I guess it’s something you don’t learn playing Call of Duty.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 8:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:41:57 -0400

I joined the Navy in 1994. Everyone in Boot Camp had to get a hair cut, everyone. Women got a pretty ugly short hair cut whether they wanted it or not. There were no buns allowed. I knew I would have to get it cut so I did it before I arrived and they still made me pay for their cut! Granted, it wasn't shaved like the males, but even they agreed that we looked worse! It made things easy, though. I think females should have to get a short hair cut in BCT. If they want long hair it will grow back.

Response by CSM John Mead made Jun 1 at 2018 10:01 AM

CSM John Mead — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:01:45 -0400

Good comment. At least initially, shaved heads promoted hygiene and took away individuality. It promoted team spirit with it's, "everybody looks alike appearance". However, then and now, the act of shaving male's only heads and not females, is absurd and should be addressed. Longer hair needs more care, is an argument, and female soldiers have the option to tuck and roll in order to keep it within regulations while in uniform. While on active duty, i always addressed the inequity of hair standards between the sexes. Female soldiers are normally honest enough to say that while in the field or deployed to an area where personal hygiene is problematic, long hair is a pain. Solution, no more tucking and rolling, keep your hair to standard without modifications.

Response by LCpl Christopher Pickett made Jun 1 at 2018 10:41 AM

LCpl Christopher Pickett — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:41:54 -0400

Cutting hair is a very old habit in militaries the world over. I actually researched this and found it went back as far as the Romans and likely further. It was done to prevent being caught by the hair and killed, short hair is harder to grab and hold on to, making it very hard to control a combatant in close combat. It continued for at least 2000 years, but wasn't a requirement. Modern military continued this tradition due to the effect of looking "smart" (not intelligence but appearance) and the impact long hair has on helmets. The reason hair it cut in boot however is for hygiene. No hair, no lice, less cleaning, more training.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 10:56 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:56:11 -0400

I never did understand why we have to shave our heads and not females, they say it's for hygiene reasons, if that's the case , the females aren't in compliance with this hygiene rule , I dont really care myself, I shave my head still regardless.
Just saying i dont see the big deal, but that's just me though.

Response by LCpl Aaron Freeman made Jun 1 at 2018 11:02 AM

LCpl Aaron Freeman — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:02:12 -0400

The biggest reason, is hygene... what if the recruit shows up with lice? Shaving the head solves this problem, period...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 11:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:34:22 -0400

I havnt Read all the comments on here but simple point of is that all men get their head shave so all of them conform to one hair style and all women have to get the same exact cut, maybe a couple depending on hair texture like a short bob that is easy to maintain. This would equalize somewhat the stigma of women and men getting different treatment. I’ll Be honest i dont Know what the current rules are for women and hair are for basic training right now are

Response by Cpl Steve Masters made Jun 1 at 2018 11:38 AM

Cpl Steve Masters — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:38:51 -0400

Cutting off your hair helps contribute to your loss of identity
Then they can rebuild you once your broken down
They can make a killer out of anyone been doing it for thousands of years

Response by Thunder O'Meara made Jun 1 at 2018 1:41 PM

Thunder O'Meara — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 13:41:19 -0400

The military requires haircuts so everybody is equal, in boot camp, you're all worthless pieces of nothing. Females don't get it because they have longer hair, and it would just look weird.

Response by SPC Whittney Bierilo made Jun 1 at 2018 1:54 PM

SPC Whittney Bierilo — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 13:54:16 -0400

I chopped my hair off within regulations before shipping to basic to make it easier to manage. I wouldn’t be too jelly about girls getting to keep their hair, because trust me when I say, it’s not worth it. I saw girls with moldy hair because they didn’t have time to ever properly dry it, wasting precious time to put it in a eat and tidy bun, having to wash it constantly, cleaning hair from the drains Of the showers... long hair in basic is not a luxury... it’s a nightmare.

Response by SSG David Stafne made Jun 1 at 2018 2:00 PM

SSG David Stafne — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:00:53 -0400

It is my understanding that the practice of shaved heads for new Recruits dates back to WWII when the our military had a huge number of Americans joining up. Many of those Recruits were not too keen on basic personal hygiene. With everyone living in crowded open bay barracks, shaving everyone’s head was a way to protect the health and welfare of the unit.

In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!

Response by PO3 Sergio Sandoval made Jun 1 at 2018 3:02 PM

PO3 Sergio Sandoval — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:02:41 -0400

And here I though it was to combat head lice!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 3:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:57:17 -0400

The Naval Academy cuts female plebes' hair to should length. Could implement something like that for BCT to be more along the lines of equality.

Response by 1LT Dave Jenkins made Jun 1 at 2018 4:37 PM

1LT Dave Jenkins — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:37:00 -0400

When I was in basic at Fort Leonard Wood in 1980 we had a choice of the shaved head or the long cut. The recruits that opted for the long cut looked so bad, that the rest of us just got the shave. We all rubbed each guys head as they ran the gauntlet outside of the barbershop. Since we had to pay for the haircut, the less time we had to go the better. Plus it was one less thing to mess with.
I'm not sure how the female recruits handled long hair, but I am sure it was a pain. Personally, I would not like to see the girls with shaved heads, but maybe with a short bob cut.
The reason why the Army had shaved heads and faces was so the helmet and gas mask would fit properly.

Response by SrA Paul Morris made Jun 1 at 2018 5:49 PM

SrA Paul Morris — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:49:19 -0400

Shaved heads. It is one less thing to worry about during basic training.

Response by MSG Justin Kuchar made Jun 1 at 2018 7:25 PM

MSG Justin Kuchar — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 19:25:21 -0400

Maybe this SSG needs a skirt to feel equal. NCOs quit whining about dumb crap, grab your Janes and Joes, go into the treeline and actually conduct some training.

Response by SGT Stephen Robinson made Jun 1 at 2018 9:45 PM

SGT Stephen Robinson — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:45:51 -0400

The haircut is part of the psychology of B CT . Removing the hair removes the individual, we all became the same.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made Jun 1 at 2018 10:21 PM

SPC Andrew Murray — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:21:13 -0400

They already have a hard enough time recruiting females, I don't think requiring them to shave their heads will up those numbers.

Response by SFC Rob Williams made Jun 1 at 2018 10:38 PM

SFC Rob Williams — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:38:38 -0400

High and tight you know you're right !

Response by CN Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 11:38 PM

CN Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 23:38:50 -0400

You conform to the military, the military doesn't conform to you. If you don't want your head shaved, tough.

Response by SPC Wade Wheeler made Jun 1 at 2018 11:59 PM

SPC Wade Wheeler — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 23:59:41 -0400

First of all the haircut is NOT shaving the head. It is a very close to the scalp cut. I'm not sure why females aren't required to get the cut but there are different standards (especially for pt test.)

Response by CPL Marc Bailey made Jun 2 at 2018 2:26 AM

CPL Marc Bailey — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:26:55 -0400

Shaved mine beforehand

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 3:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 03:23:42 -0400

No guy shoulf be so damn upset about a buzz cut justbget over yourself its the Army just suck it the fuck up. For women it demeaning to be shaved bald its not the same for us if you dont like the get out.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 4:42 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 04:42:12 -0400

Well I believe woman should have a haircut to at least to the shoulders if possible during BCT. It will have more uniformity. They won't have to get another haircut most likely during the whole period of BCT. Maybe one more before graduation?

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 6:06 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:06:31 -0400

This is tricky. I agree with DS Morgan it takes a long time. However, I will never let my hair return to that style because when I went through we had to take our patrol caps off during specific training times. My head was not used to not being covered and now I have permanent scarring on the top of my head from the burns. Even the sunscreen they gave us didn't help. It's not going to be fun explaining that if I ever start balding.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 6:41 AM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:41:09 -0400

Head shaving dates back to 1620s England, when Oliver Cromwell demanded all new soldiers who swore fealty to shave their heads

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 2 at 2018 7:40 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:40:51 -0400

20 foot of hair sounds like an exaggeration, when I went thru Basic and AIT, the ladies hair was maybe 10 to 12 inches.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 8:01 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 08:01:01 -0400

When I went through boot there was a girl in my sister division that had hear head shaved. But, she did show up with baby blue hair.

Response by SP5 Paul Nipper made Jun 2 at 2018 8:10 AM

SP5 Paul Nipper — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 08:10:09 -0400

Women Marine recruits heads are shaved in the Philippines. They found that there was a good bonding amongst troops because they were on the same level. There is also a level of comfort not having a load of hair to deal with.

Response by MAJ Mark Anderson made Jun 2 at 2018 10:32 AM

MAJ Mark Anderson — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:32:39 -0400

It is done to get the young men thinking less as an individual and more like a member of a team.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 10:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 10:55:15 -0400

Interesting how so many individuals are game for forcing females to shave their heads. How would you feel about the other side of that coin? For example, being told you are restricted from certain opportunities because of your gender. Yes, this still happens
Females have earned their place in a predominantly male occupation we have proved stronger, more resilient and more attentive and knowledgeable than many males (not all, obviously)
I've also seen remarks that simply because a female would be reluctant to shave her head she wouldn't be suited or capable of making a sacrifice. The same individuals may have also had a female save them from a potentially deadly or harmful situation, a female who sacrificed the safety of herself and the emotional well being of children she gave birth to, for your sake. I've also seen remarks that if females don't agree with total equality (shaved heads, ect) She should "get the fuck out" Well, if you don't agree with the CURRENT 670-1 maybe it's YOU who should get the fuck out. I will continue to follow the current policies and adapt to any new policies once they are enforced Until then, I'll continue to follow the regs and you can continue to be a salty bigot in the barber shop once a week

Response by SPC John Waterbury made Jun 2 at 2018 12:41 PM

SPC John Waterbury — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:41:27 -0400

Not privates, recruits.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 12:50 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:50:37 -0400

When I went through basic there was a female who wanted to shave her head and the drill sergeants wouldn't allow her. I think females having hair made it easier for them to be quickly identified by the drill sergeants. Easier for them to prevent shenanigans if they could quickly identify that it is a male and a female going off as a battle buddy pair.

Response by SA Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 5:56 PM

SA Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 17:56:33 -0400

The males in my boot camp were required to shave their heads upon arrival and got the sides faded every 2 weeks after. This was explained as to get them into the habit of getting it cut every 2 weeks to keep on standards and to get used to seeing their hair when it was ready for a trim. Females were not required but more emphasis on how to make a proper bun. Shaved head on a female is actually against female regulations. I am a female who keeps my hair short have learned our scalp can not show through our short hair

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 7:24 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 19:24:07 -0400

Forcing females to shave their heads would impact recruiting.

Response by PO2 Hauke Powers made Jun 2 at 2018 8:09 PM

PO2 Hauke Powers — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:09:31 -0400

the reason FOR the famous BUZZ CUT was to quickly treat head wounds in basic, AIT, and in the field of battle....women were not subject to the cut due to the upper brass not wanting to destroy the LOOK of a woman...and through the ensuing years, nothing changed...I have never seen an issue with it...all branches of the military have their hair regulations....my niece, who is a MP, truly loves the FLAT TOP cut from the 1950's...low maintenance, she says !!!! I STILL do the BUZZ CUT on my head to this day....just got used to it through the years...and again, low maintenance !!!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 8:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:39:11 -0400

At basic I could go the entire time without a haircut and stay in regulation. And my hair was nearly waist length my entire military career.

Also after basic it takes a guy 2-3 weeks to grow their hair out to have styled to their liking that meets regulation. If a female is made to cut her hair it can take years for her hair to be back to desired length. One thing I always valued was the ability to maintain femininity while maintaining a military appearance. While we are all soldiers and should present that appearance, our individuality and personality helps create a stronger team.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 9:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:01:32 -0400

I feel like if we were allowed to have regulated haircuts I would have to get a haircut every two weeks, therefore with the timeline of basic it would be tedious to send a soldier to get a haircut.

Response by LCpl Jakub Meredith made Jun 2 at 2018 9:47 PM

LCpl Jakub Meredith — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:47:54 -0400

Fuck it shave the all. It will help with hygiene.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 10:05 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:05:14 -0400

I have to say Girls shouldn't shave their heads! They need their hair to learn how to put their hair up nice and neat in a matter of time. Unlike guys all we have to do is get a hair cut. My personal opinion of couse!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Jun 2 at 2018 10:14 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:14:19 -0400

"Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?" Women don't look very good with shaved heads...besides guys...your hair WILL grow back!

Response by PO2 Erik Burns made Jun 2 at 2018 10:37 PM

PO2 Erik Burns — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 22:37:32 -0400

To me it symbolized the beginning of becoming a team, an equal to the guy on either side of me.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2018 11:05 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:05:24 -0400

So I am back and forth personally with shaving heads in basic training. I think it is part of the beginning of the Military career and it will grow back so get over it. However, I am also all for relaxing grooming standards to allow beards and less restricted length standards (maybe that is my Warrant Talking.) I loved being around NATO where beards and long hair are just what they are. They also have coed bathrooms and nude sun bathing is not looked at as weird. So quite far from the conversation but I think it relays where I am coming from. As far as females shaving their heads I think that is ridiculous. What would truly be the point. I think this "equality" way of thinking is getting out of hand male and females have a lot of differences and similarities.

Response by SGT Shannon Stamps made Jun 3 at 2018 12:35 AM

SGT Shannon Stamps — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 00:35:02 -0400

Haircut are for hygiene reasons and uniformality. I think it would be great if women were required to shave their heads. Also need to have same PT requirements without reducing the requirements for men just to make it equal.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2018 1:07 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 01:07:13 -0400

Fuck I voted for the wrong thing. Deff shave heads

Response by SGT Charles Wheeler made Jun 3 at 2018 5:48 AM

SGT Charles Wheeler — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 05:48:19 -0400

We did wear our hair a little longer in the Army of the '80's, but not as long as the VOLAR era of the early to mid 70's. I'm talking about the operational force. In 1981 at BCT the first Hair cut was a scalping but only the first. AIT it was Army standard.

Response by PO1 Jeff Brown made Jun 3 at 2018 7:30 AM

PO1 Jeff Brown — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 07:30:07 -0400

this tradition has some good reasons for existing. Not the least of which is tearing you down as a civilian, so that you can be ‘built up’ as a sailor, soldier, or marine; unit uniformity, ease of cleanliness. Someone mentioned hazing... sure, I’m ok with hazing that doesn’t cause physical harm. After your hair grows back, you feel like you’ve earned the right. Shave both genders!

Response by Cpl Corey Nalley made Jun 3 at 2018 7:36 AM

Cpl Corey Nalley — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 07:36:52 -0400

We all have had our heads shaved. The last time I knew if a female wanted to have hair below the shoulders it had to be in a bun. Anything above the shoulders it could be worn down.

Response by SPC Oakley Jones made Jun 3 at 2018 9:09 AM

SPC Oakley Jones — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 09:09:56 -0400

As stated above. Not practical in BCT for all soldiers to get their haircut of choice. And women have different guidelines altogether. This shouldn’t be an issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2018 9:18 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 09:18:03 -0400

I know when I went through Basic back in Oct 1985 at Fort Lost in the Woods, Misery, that haircut "A Charlie Special" as our D.I.s called it was demoralizing to most of us. The first swipe on me was forward and down the center with the hair falling down onto my face. I have a big head and after the haircut the D.I.s called "Brain." And other nickname was "Killer", I looked like a serial kill in prison.

I think THE HAIRCUT was to bring everyone down to the same level. "Lower than Whale S**t."

As for the females. There were formations of females in training and they would be marching by once in a while. The D.I.s would yell, "Don"t f**kin look over at them, they wouldn't want you guys with them f**ked up haircuts.

Response by Vera Nelson made Jun 3 at 2018 9:33 AM

Vera Nelson — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 09:33:01 -0400

I thought as a kid the women should get the same hair cut.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jun 4 at 2018 8:06 AM

CPT Larry Hudson — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 08:06:08 -0400

It is a matter oh health, first act of being conformed into a soldier,

Response by SSG Fernando Algarin made Jun 4 at 2018 12:55 PM

SSG Fernando Algarin — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:55:36 -0400

Army = No Gender. Male or female you're a soldier and should be treated as such.

Response by SSgt Robert Prest made Jun 4 at 2018 1:39 PM

SSgt Robert Prest — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 13:39:54 -0400

In 75 we got ours (40 or so) straight off the bus, no 180 back log. 20 min and we were on our way to H#ll. :)

As for Girls, I vote shaved.

Response by SSgt Paul Mimeault made Jun 9 at 2018 1:01 PM

SSgt Paul Mimeault — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 13:01:14 -0400

Focus on the big picture SSG.

SSgt Mimeault

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 9 at 2018 4:50 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 16:50:08 -0400

Whether tradition or regulation, having one's head shaved for basic is a great equalizer. The early part of basic is intended, as I understand it, to change the new civilian into a Service team member. To help do this, all traces of civilian life must be erased and all recruits are treated equally. Heads shaved (men), wear uniforms, learn to march in formation, etc., help equalize everybody. Later on I can see allowing recruits to wear their hair IAW Service standards. As for women, I was taught in MANY Air Force and Army training courses I'm not allowed to have or express an opinion.

Response by SrA David Heineken made Jun 10 at 2018 7:33 PM

SrA David Heineken — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 19:33:42 -0400

Any female that wants a combat mos should be assigned and live and train from the beginning with males. This includes boot camp.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jun 10 at 2018 9:57 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 21:57:44 -0400

It quite one thing to have a Man with a shaved head, its way beyond unreasonable to expect any female to do that. Standards of training are one thing, the very thought of even thinking of imposing that on any female is totally unjustified in my opinion. That has nothing at all to do with anyone's potential or ability to train for the Military and although there are hair standards for either males or females carry that so far, how many females do You think will allow themselves to be subjected to that unreasonable requirement ? It serves no purpose at all !

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Jun 10 at 2018 11:49 PM

MGySgt Jerry Suarez — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 23:49:23 -0400

Ok here is the deal

1. If you dont want your head shaved then dont join, it's like a company mandating the wear of uniforms, no beard etc if you dint like it dint work there

2. It's an equal thing everyone looks the same so now you can focus on training vice what your hair looks like

And last as adsurb as it may sound it's for hygiene with people joining from all over no telling what's in there hair

So please dont attempt to use the hazing card

Response by PO2 John Tulare Jr. made Jun 15 at 2018 7:04 PM

PO2 John Tulare Jr. — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 19:04:58 -0400

Equal grooming standards. I'm thinking of how much money is going to be spent on body armor designed for longer hair, as apparently is in work. If all personnel had the same hairstyle differing body armor would be unnecessary......

Response by 1LT Steve Wilkerson made Jun 21 at 2018 7:45 PM

1LT Steve Wilkerson — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:45:09 -0400

The only reason I can think of that is good enough to shave either men’s or women’s heads is that it helps them to break out of the civilian perspective. I may be mistaken but I doubt that lice are much of a problem. Otherwise, I think an Army Standards haircut should do the trick.

But note, if my first reason is THE REASON, then I agree with head-shaving. That may just be a way of saying that it had a big effect on me, settling into the idea that this was a whole new way of the world.

Response by PO1 Michael Garrett made Jun 23 at 2018 2:50 PM

PO1 Michael Garrett — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:50:44 -0400

As has been previously stated by an individual, xaverian, upon entering into service with the military has to realize that they are no longer a civilian. Part of this process of transition is a haircut. It is the initial step to show the civilian that they are now a member of a unit. The initial buzz cut that a recruit gets is only a small part of a process of instilling discipline in the new recruit. the Navy is now interested in relaxing some of the small steps of discipline that a recruit must have in order to understand their role in the US Navy. it is hard for me to say this, but I'm glad I got out of the Navy when I did. I'm ashamed of what it's become. It has become infected with political correctness.

Response by CPO David Ransom made Jun 25 at 2018 12:12 AM

CPO David Ransom — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 00:12:14 -0400

Who gave CPR to this? Female recruits running around talking about V'GER.

Response by SP5 John Rego made Jul 15 at 2018 2:52 AM

SP5 John Rego — Sun, 15 Jul 2018 02:52:45 -0400

Folks, if one cannot bear the thought of shaving head for basic training, then I humbly suggest that the military is not for you.

Response by CPT Gail Davis made Jul 18 at 2018 11:20 AM

CPT Gail Davis — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:20:26 -0400

As long as each gender has professional appearances there should be no head shaving, but at BT, as a female, I purposely had my hair chopped because it is very difficult to put and keep it in a bun 24/7. I think men don't realize what a hassle it is to keep the hair but as a female, in our society, if your head is shaved you'll be classified as a dike and as a male, you're classified as a male with his head shaved. Think about that... there's more to it then just no hair, unfortunately.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Jul 18 at 2018 5:45 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:45:01 -0400

My thought is, and I've tried to find support but with no luck, that back in the day when most recruits (obviously before the draft system) were from lower income families and depressed areas the creature lice was a prevalent affliction. So, for health reasons heads were shaved in an attempt to rid the recruit and, by such action, anyone he came into contact with of this dreaded ill as lice infestations could be quite unhealthy. Secondly, the shaved head has always been used as a first step in grooming the soldier/airman/boot/recruit into a cohesive unit with everyone beginning on an equal footing. For the women, I don't what today's standards are, but when I first joined the AF the women trainees had their hair trimmed to uniform length during training for much the same reason, then requirements were loosened once trainees were assigned into the regular force.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Jul 19 at 2018 9:39 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 21:39:27 -0400

I can already tell I am going to get fragged over my response, so here goes. It seems that when I scroll down through all the responses I notice one thing. The question originated from, and has been responded to, by Army. WTF? How does someone in the military get to be surprised that recruits have shaved heads? How do you get into the military at all and never realize what boot camp is like? Or officer candidate school,? Or military school? Next thing is that (in the Marine Corps at least) women have a hair style and length regulation. There is no such thing as 20 miles of hair. It is short. Damn short (at least in boot camp). Third thing is WHO THE HELL CARES ??? It is boot camp. Thirteen weeks (eight for all you others) of a persons life. It isn't as if the military makes you stay that way. As a matter of fact, the Corps does not approve of shaved heads and even tried to go as far as doing away with the "high and tight".

Response by SSG Craig Thompson made Jul 26 at 2018 5:12 PM

SSG Craig Thompson — Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:12:51 -0400

Shaving heads is stupid. Regulation hair should be the standard But I couldn't change my vote F* your dervuy. Ehetr my Wild Turleyz!

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Jul 28 at 2018 8:28 PM

CW4 Jim Shelburn — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 20:28:36 -0400

The original reason was two-fold:
It tended to put everyone on the same level in appearance, and
Checked for lice or other potentially infectious skin problems.
With the inclusion of women, an adjustment was made. But I do believe their is cut shorter.

Response by SrA Earl Jackson made Aug 2 at 2018 2:31 PM

SrA Earl Jackson — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:31:12 -0400

Head shaving in basic training is partially about stripping away individuality. You are no longer an individual, but part of a unit. Haircuts/styles are individual by nature. I am all for everyone having their heads shaved in basic.

Response by SPC Richard (Rick) Henry made Aug 2 at 2018 7:41 PM

SPC Richard (Rick) Henry — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 19:41:38 -0400

When I was in Basic (1971) we had a choice of shaved or 3”s. Most opted for shave!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 12:03 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 12:03:16 -0400

Women aren't even allowed to shave their heads. 1/4" it's the minimum permitted by AR 670-1. Why? I have no idea. Here I am, in violation of AR 670-1, at my ranger graduation.
Should women shave their heads for BCT? I don't know that they should. Everyone has to maintain a hairstyle in accordance with regulation, but one that requires no external maintenance, because there's no time for it. So women keep their hair in a bun or do some ridiculous pinning/ gluing job with hairspray and gel, but are never allowed to get a trim. Men usually have hairstyles that require maintenance- bimonthly trims. There's no time for that, so the Army goes for expediency: shaved heads for males, zero hair care for females.
Regardless, before you start demanding that women shave their heads, remember that the Army actually forbids it by regulation. (Most women who go to ranger just violate the regulations so they don't stand out at the school).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2018 10:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:34:44 -0400

Let's keep one tradition in the military. So many traditions have been taken away based off what society deems as appropriate or equal. I have been a firm believer in the military separating themselves from our civilian counterparts. Theres a reason why most take a hard look in the mirror before they join. I've already seen some compromises the military has made beginning to spiral out of control. Leave things alone.

Response by Nai Bert made Aug 17 at 2018 9:38 AM

Nai Bert — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 09:38:25 -0400

I believe both males and females should have the option. I asked to have my hair shaved and was told no.

Response by SPC Kenneth Reason made Sep 4 at 2018 4:25 PM

SPC Kenneth Reason — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 16:25:17 -0400

If your going to break them in . The both sexes should require equal training .

Response by SFC Matthew Nicholls made Sep 6 at 2018 4:33 PM

SFC Matthew Nicholls — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 16:33:57 -0400

The requirement for shaving heads goes back to the public health concerns of housing large groups of people from disparate backgrounds with questionable hygiene practices prior to arriving. Hair and body lice are easily stopped by shaving heads, showering, and taking away infested clothing. (Sounds like day 1 of basic training). Females were always treated like queens. Time to treat them equally. Haircuts for all.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Sep 8 at 2018 6:44 PM

CW3 Jim Norris — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 18:44:03 -0400

To take away all that 'swagger' and I'm special thinking. It's a very small part of changing a civilian into a solider. Women have very different grooming standards, however the changes that are required of them in dress and grooming are often just as drastic from their perspective. Head lice is a problem in 4 star hotels, God knows a barracks can become a nasty place quickly, close quarters and all. Never agreed with joint basic training units, you soften the men to allow women integrated training. Either the standards are the same, or the training suffers.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Sep 14 at 2018 9:38 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 21:38:30 -0400

In the Marines we had shaved heads, unbloused boots and the top button fastened in 1st phase. You had to earn the right to blouse your boots, unbutton the top button, and get a high and tight haircut. It's part of the transformation as has been said and tradition. You conform to the Marine Corps, the Corps doesn't conform to you.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Sep 16 at 2018 2:13 PM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:13:21 -0400

Gi Jane looked sexy to me.............course that was Demi haha

Response by MSG David Densmore made Sep 19 at 2018 11:25 AM

MSG David Densmore — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 11:25:31 -0400

OK, a great subject! I voted for the "Both males and females should have their heads shaved if any at all." because of the "if any at all". I'm not for women getting their hair shaved, but I'm also not for women being able to wear it any way they want, even within regs.

First, I can't imagine going through basic training and having to worry about my hair, or a mustache. There's too much going on to fiddle with it, and honestly, be harassed by DI's with different opinions on the standard.

At one time, way back when I first joined, in the National Gaurd men could wear wigs. Absolutely a stupid idea, and thankfully it went away not long after I joined.

Being in Combat Arms and going to the field for "extended fun" for the first time with an Army standard haircut on the long side turns out not to be so much fun when you're short on water, and showers aren't available.

But, I digress. I believe that a major portion of basic training is learning in a short amount of time to work together as a team no matter what your background. Race, religion, ethnic, rich, poor, GED or Doctorate. ALL ARE EQUAL! The first thing that evens us out is the uniform and our rank- Trainee. The second thing that evens us out is the part of the uniform that we wear on our head, our haircut. The third thing that evens us out is fair treatment by the Drills. Everybody gets treated badly, woke up at the same time, whether O dark 30 or later, (except for gaurd duty), does pushups (punished) at the same time, does the same extra duties and same training.

How else do you take individual soldiers of a thousand different backgrounds and directions, and turn them into a fighting team with one purpose and goal?

IMO, Males should get the buzz cut number 2 or 3 comb, Women should not get a buzz cut, but a uniform short cut, for example using a number 8 comb attachment all over. If the recruit, male or female, can't handle the thought of having their hair cut close for 8-12 weeks, and it would keep them from joining, they're probably in the wrong place, and the military can save itself from wasting tens of thousands of training dollars.

Response by SSgt James Carter made Sep 23 at 2018 10:46 AM

SSgt James Carter — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 10:46:27 -0400

Some high school and college sports teams also shave their heads the first day of camp, primarily to start the bonding that is so necessary for their best performance. As military recruits the act equalizes us all and begins a similar process.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2018 8:58 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:58:14 -0400

No...it’s mostly for hygiene. Same reason they used to shave prisoners heads.

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 5 at 2018 4:21 PM

SrA John Monette — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 16:21:17 -0400

if men were allowed to not have their hair shaved, they would spend valuable training time going to the barber. women, in my opinion, don't get their hair cut as often as men.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2018 4:45 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 04:45:00 -0400

I showed up with my head shaved week within regulation. The ground the razor so deep I was bleeding for my CAC picture. Without even cleaning the razor before or after me. Obnoxious. Then they make you pay for this terrible haircut that only the makes have to do and at a taste higher than a styled haircut elsewhere. I think it's unnecessary and nothing to do with breaking and remaking a soldier. I've seen segments that there's no time to get regular haircuts, but there's plenty. They do it at every other post and base just fine. My haircut still generally takes less time than their shaving did considering you had to do it every week or two. It reached lessons of inequality between recruits, and enforced standards that are not regulation. In my opinion, this needs to stop. Primacy should enforce regulation. Nothing more or less. That is how you create clear and critical obedience when necessary later on. Just my 2¢

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Oct 7 at 2018 8:03 PM

Col Robert Wallace — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 20:03:54 -0400

Originally, the shaving of the hair off the head had nothing to do with transition. Believe it or not, it actually was a health issue. During WW II, many draftees came from homes that had poor personal cleansing practices, which included hair lice. Since lice can spread like wildfire among humans, the quickest solution was to shave the heads of all recruits. With shaved heads, all recruits looked the same, hair wise. Thus, they also learned that looks had nothing to do with performance. The infestation of lice has long been removed, but the shaving of the head of all recruits remains a tradition. Now, with the inclusion of females into all facets of military life, the shaving of the head for recruits has become one of sexual equality. With the eradication of lice as a clinical problem, I personally think that all recruits, male & female, should have the initial haircut to military standards and not shaved heads.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Oct 12 at 2018 12:33 AM

PO3 John Jeter — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 00:33:04 -0400

I'm astounded that the reasoning for the "cue ball" haircut for men isn't clearly understood. It's the very first, most basic step in creating a unit. The recruits enter the barber shop as a number of distinct individuals. Easily identified and sorted. They exit the building with very little difference in appearance. You have to hear a voice to recognize the guy you went in with in many cases. You start with erasing individual appearances as much as possible. Then starts the hard part for the DI/CC or what have you. The rest of basic is to mold the actions and thoughts into a single purpose as much as possible. I shudder to think how much harder it will be for instructors to create an integrated unit when they have to allow individual traits in appearance handcuff their efforts. I can't believe that leadership is contemplating catering to a millennial mindset over training efficiency. I'm concerned that this kind of concession will contribute to the creation of more 'Bergdahl' types in field units. I will confess I haven't much considered the effects of hair regulations for women. Women were just beginning to work sea duty posts when I got out. There was a lot of resentment over the preferential treatment they received at the beginning of the integration. I suppose if we stick to the equal treatment policy they should also do the cue ball. It's a temporary thing, hair grows back. However, given that women would have more hair to grow back, I would be amenable to the women receiving a regulation service males haircut for basic.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Oct 15 at 2018 1:36 PM

MSgt J D McKee — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 13:36:32 -0400

The "hair standards have nothing to do with equality" is SO much what a prog lib feminazi would argue until her face matched her hair. Dogmatic statements like that attempt to shut out any disagreement because, being said as a statement of fact, they require more of a confrontation to argue. Most people now won't, but to not speak up is just enabling them. An excellent choice to stimulate response. I'm surprised there were 15% of this demographic picked that one.

Response by SSG Dylan Tyahla made Oct 16 at 2018 5:18 PM

SSG Dylan Tyahla — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:18:18 -0400

The Army is making headway with equality but a long way to go. There are numerous things that EO doesn't address. The hair, married soldiers gets paid more money and better housing for same work. and additional uniform options for females

Response by PO1 Steve Mitchell made Oct 17 at 2018 11:53 PM

PO1 Steve Mitchell — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 23:53:01 -0400

The purpose of the head shaving is to make everyone equal and to look and dress alike. The idea is to get boots thinking and acting as a unit and not individuals. Not to mention the time it would take to get them a hair cut every few weeks to stay within the haircut standards.

Response by SPC William Weedman made Oct 27 at 2018 6:17 AM

SPC William Weedman — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:17:08 -0400

There was a time when the shaving a man’s head was for hygiene reasons. If a man had head lice or ticks a close cutting of the hair exposed these and allowed them to be eliminated making that man more effective as a fighter. Generally that time has passed as hygiene standards for all have greatly improved. On a personal level, women should be required to wear their hair short either male standards or perhaps a one size fits all page boy cut. Women can learn in AIT how to pile all that hair up under a size 9 cover, it also goes back to uniformity and becoming part of something larger than yourself.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Nov 13 at 2018 6:26 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 18:26:40 -0500

The standards are equal, until they are not. On one of my very last days of service I was walking out of the unit S-1 shop after getting a new CAC. Coming in the opposite direction was a female E-7 type (slick sleeve) with so much hair, her cover was not physically touching her head. And I swerved onto the grass next to the pavement to make sure I wouldn't come in contact with her way out of standards hair. With some mental math I determined that I had 12 days left to ETS, and I was thankful for that.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Nov 14 at 2018 8:53 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Wed, 14 Nov 2018 08:53:34 -0500

Well it would appear you Missed two things first What does the Regulation Say? Second we do that because the Military hates men. The original reason was hair is full of Germs and can cause and infection fast. I think we have passed that now people take better care about washing now than they used to, and don't forget we hate men and want to punish them for enlisting. JMHO

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2018 8:14 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:14:52 -0500

Females are still required to maintain a feminine like appearance and behavior...that being said, and having commanded in an IN BDE (I’m sure it’s not limited to combat arms BDEs), there are many females who are less than feminine. And “feminine” may be subjective. Our dearly loved 670-1 has recently changed to allow females to have a close cut / shaved style. If that makes you feel more part of the team, then have at it.
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”

Response by SPC Robert Burrell made Nov 19 at 2018 3:51 PM

SPC Robert Burrell — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 15:51:38 -0500

I don't know about the Navy, I served my time in the army however, when I attended basic training the male recruits received abasic training bald and the females got the infamous "bowl" or budgie cut. If it works for the army it should work for the Navy... In my humble opinion

Response by SPC Jordan Sutich made Nov 28 at 2018 5:30 PM

SPC Jordan Sutich — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 17:30:56 -0500

Uniformity, uniformity, uniformity

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Dec 3 at 2018 8:34 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 08:34:05 -0500

I agree with the poll women want to be hardcore and go into combat with men in combat MOS they should be treated and shaved just like them. I not going to work with someone in the field who is doing her hair all the time and putting on lipstick. I got hand full of mud to camo your face.

Response by SrA Robert Schels made Dec 4 at 2018 7:06 PM

SrA Robert Schels — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 19:06:02 -0500

I think that while getting your head shaved is not a requirement, I agree that it is a form or a visual statement of someone transitioning from civilian life to military life.
I had my head shaved when I went into basic 30 some odd years ago and I considered it a point of pride did I could visually show everyone my life and entered a new phase.
But now that the military is turning into a more equal footing for men and women I believe that this tradition should be modified somewhat.
Let's face it. Hair grows back. So I think when people enter the military that men and women should get their hair cut to a basic military cut. (I'm sure all of us have seen the movie GI Jane. she got her haircut for the movies and it didn't seem to detrimentally affect her)
so everybody lineup get their haircut when they go into basic and then from there on out they can choose to keep it shaved or at a military length.

Response by CPO Matthew Bigelow made Dec 11 at 2018 3:46 PM

CPO Matthew Bigelow — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:46:58 -0500

Personally, I think different uniform and grooming standards for men and women is sexist.

Response by Amn Cassandra Lynn made Dec 12 at 2018 11:41 PM

Amn Cassandra Lynn — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:41:13 -0500

When I was in basic at Lackland, I had them cut my hair short so I wouldn't have to do anything with it during training. Easy peasy!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 9:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 21:18:05 -0500

I also am a proponent of mustaches being a mandatory part of the NCO uniform, regardless of gender. False mustaches being exceptible for those un able to grow full mustache on there own. The warrant officers who came from the NCO Corp, should also be permitted at their own discressionry. All other ranks prohibited.

Response by PVT Kenneth Rodriguez made Jan 12 at 2019 10:00 PM

PVT Kenneth Rodriguez — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:00:28 -0500

Heck yeah let's get some votes and pass a new rule that would make females have to shave their heads that would be funny!!!lol...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2019 11:40 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 11:40:33 -0500

I like that you brought up equality. While I'm fine with the way things are and don't understand all the feminists out there. I did find myself wondering the other day if they would ever allow females to shave their heads. It is currently out of regulations for a female to shave their head. But with changing the APFT to the ACFT in 2020, leveling out the fitness requirements between males and females to be the same, I was thinking if they're going for gender equality and such, why not permit females to have shaved heads? Not that I would but some may want that option.

Response by Sgt Dale Boston made Jan 13 at 2019 5:50 PM

Sgt Dale Boston — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:50:39 -0500

as it has been the tradition from the beginning for men, because men started the military, now because of equal rights women are allowed to enlist. National defence was not about hair length, but about will power and the desire to become a good soldier, “The rationale behind the short haircut is to make sure that the hair can’t be grabbed by the enemy, and thus long hair is a liability in combat.” It is better to have them join the military than to drive them away with pointless rules that have zero effect on their ability to defend their country that they love as much as men and do the job in whatever capacity they qualify for as a loyal soldier to defend against enemies foreign and domestic.

Response by SPC Deon Holmes made Jan 14 at 2019 6:38 AM

SPC Deon Holmes — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 06:38:04 -0500

Why not they want to be treated as equal tit for tat.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 8:25 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 08:25:57 -0500

Does the Army have a similar rule? “Hair shall be of sufficient length to prevent the scalp from being readily visible (with exception due to documented medical condition).” -Navy Women’s Hair Regs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 8:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 08:46:50 -0500

It's all about time management. Takes less time to maintain that hair, and takes much less time at the barbershop whe you take 150 people to get either 1 haircut, or 150 individual haircuts.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 8:12 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 20:12:52 -0500

The shaved head ENSURES a level of equality AMONG men! Makes us look the same....women have those ugly buns....military are NEVER allowed hair! And to quote a general who enforced shaving standards in the jungles of Nam: "if they are complaining (edited word) about shaving, they aren't complaining(word choice) about dying". BLUF: there's more important stuff to worry about THAN YOUR HAIR!!!

I also agree with SFC Cardin : it provides a great transition from civilian punk to miltary professional....

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Jan 15 at 2019 8:25 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 08:25:34 -0500

Equal rights are equal rights. "Army of One !!!!!"
Discrimination is a two way street....

Response by SrA Christine Martinez made Jan 15 at 2019 9:06 AM

SrA Christine Martinez — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:06:03 -0500

As I read the question: "Shaved heads in basic training: is this mandatory? If it is, then why, and why only for males?" I had to wonder if this question was asked by a civilian. I was shocked to see it asked by a SSG in the Army. Really?
First, I don't know if the current Army regulation on standards of wearing the United States Army uniform, i.e., 'dress code' is still USA Reg 670-1, but it used to be the equivalent to the Air Force's AFR 35-10, which I've learned is now Air Force Instruction 36-2903, Dress & Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel. [https://www.thebalancecareers.com/air-force-grooming-standards-hair-regulations-3331703]
What I do know is, [male] Basic Training recruits have had their heads shaved for several reasons: one reason, and perhaps the ONLY reason we need to discuss, is that every military branch takes a recruit, and physically, mentally, and sometimes spiritually, breaks them down during this indoctrination and training phase. Whatever physical or mental part(s) of the recruit that is/are seen as 'undesirable', or 'unnecessary' is removed, and replaced with whichever standards the specific training curriculum deems appropriate. It's part of the transition from a civilian to that of a Soldier, Airman, Marine, or Seaman.
Secondly, the rationalization of shaving a man's head as a recruit is this fundamental reason:
you go into Basic as a know-nothing, get-your-shit-together recruit. 'Shape up, or ship out'. You are taken out of your comfort zone, your physical persona broken down, and you become part of something great. You are given standards and treated equally to every other recruit, and if you pass Basic Training, you will become a part of the whole. Before a trainee can transition from the recruit to the full-fledged servicemember they have to leave their identity at the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) they took their Oath of Enlistment at. You will be taken out of your civilian clothing and be given appropriate military attire. You will be taught and reminded how to dress properly, how/where/when to wear a hat, and probably with a bit of 'face time' with your Drill Instructor. You will be trained to look like your fellow trainees [uniformity], and to work/train in synchronization with them [conformity] as you learn combat skills, and core values.
Basic Training isn't meant to coddle anyone, and if you think that the military way of life is going to change based on *your* wants and desires, you should ring the quitting bell, or hand in your training slip, and get back on a bus home. If a recruit doesn't like the training standards at their Basic Training facility, I suggest they contact their Recruiter. For Army recruits, they can contact the United States Military Entrance Processing Command
2834 Green Bay Road
North Chicago, IL 60064-309
[http://www.mepcom.army.mil/]
(Let me know how that works for ya.)
The reason female recruits don't get their heads shaved is not an equality/inequality issue. It's because the goal for ALL recruits, and later personnel, is to uphold standards of 'conservative' grooming, and the standards are based on one's gender: male or female. All men will be held to one standard, all females to one standard. Again, I say this is not meant as a equality/inequality issue, rather it's the proverbial "two sides to every coin" in action.
If one truly believes that all aspects of [civilian/military] Life will be equal and fair for all men and women, I am not going to dissuade you of your belief. We can categorize it in the same file as Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and unicorns.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jan 15 at 2019 9:39 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:39:31 -0500

By TRADOC policy, the Army does not shave heads - .the haircut, however is very short. There are two reasons for this: (1) amongst males, this marks the beginning of the transition from civilian to soldier (2) training schedules are full enough without having to bustle Privates off to the barber every week or so for a touch up. Accordingly, haircuts are short, thus minimizing training interruptions courtesy of going to the barber.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 11:23 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:23:22 -0500

I’m not Army but navy and when I came in, both males AND females had to get their hair cut, males straight shaved and females to the collar, now its different but I agree, it does represent a rite of passage symbolic of the transformation from civilian to military.

Response by PO2 Lee Kirk made Jan 16 at 2019 8:56 AM

PO2 Lee Kirk — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:56:16 -0500

Originally the head shaving was to ensure no lice. Recruits come from every state, ethnic background, and income level.

Response by SGT Kristine Limanen made Jan 16 at 2019 12:09 PM

SGT Kristine Limanen — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:09:20 -0500

Basic training is not only a physical test but a mental one too. Turning a civilian into a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine takes a lot, especially for the civilian children now a days. The time frame is too short. Humiliating and breaking a person down will bring out the fight and courage a person has. It will give them a perspective of themselves they never knew they had. With timing, shaving heads is necessary. Many women like to believe they are capable of the same standards of men, but in MOST, not ALL, cases that isn’t true. I met many male Soldiers who weren’t deserving of the uniform. I met few women who weren’t capable of combat, but those women didn’t act superior. Standards should never be the same in the Military. The Military should not go by the same laws as the rest of the Nation, (I don’t remember if they do or not.....

Response by SFC Steven Barry made Jan 16 at 2019 7:26 PM

SFC Steven Barry — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:26:08 -0500

The question itself highlight the utter hypocrisy intrinsic in the female infection of the military.

Response by SGT Rodger Braden made Jan 17 at 2019 3:45 PM

SGT Rodger Braden — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 15:45:24 -0500

Real sick of the "lets be equal in every aspect" crowd, because were not! Something to be said about traditions in the service and being bald along with everyone else is part of that.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Jan 18 at 2019 2:26 PM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:26:02 -0500

I responded that only males should have their heads shaved. WOmen should have their hair trimmed if necessary to meet military standards. This is based on cultural norms, both in society and in the military. A person should not be forced to totally give up their gender identity because they join the military. Women tend to wear their hair longer than men. It's a thing; has pretty much always been a thing. Uniform cuts are different, APFT standards are different, boot sizes are different, men and women are different. This is all OK, because after all, it's performance that counts.

Response by PO1 Richard Dennis made Jan 19 at 2019 6:44 PM

PO1 Richard Dennis — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:44:51 -0500

I had always thought when I was in boot camp, in 1972, it was to lessen the possibility of anyone getting head lice. I still imagine that could be the case.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Jan 20 at 2019 10:02 AM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 10:02:09 -0500

Not real sure when shaving heads became something done. It was not done in the early seventies when I was a trainee ??????

Response by Louis Williams made Jan 20 at 2019 6:31 PM

Louis Williams — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:31:08 -0500

There were 3 options for haircuts upon induction into the military; #1, #2, and #3. A haircut was mandatory, not a shaved head. None of the options were preferred but they did allow you to distinguish a shaved head from keeping hair on your head. All 3 were quick and simple and personally, I say a shaved head took longer than the others. The women were more to office personnel and kitchen during my tenure while the door was open for their entry during that time. I did see a female NCO and CO during field duty at permanent party and one of my CO's during basic was a female, all of them had a full head of hair.

Response by PO2 Hauke Powers made Jan 21 at 2019 8:17 AM

PO2 Hauke Powers — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 08:17:19 -0500

The reason for the "buzz cut" is to begin the transition into a military mindset...I PERSONALLY see no harm with women being "shaved" like the guys...I have a niece who REQUESTED a buzz cut in Basic...she got it with a lot of strange looks...she swore it helped her mindset to be more focused. Now she is a Sergeant...all within 2 1/2 years. She now keeps a short version of the Julie Andrews's haircut from Sound of Music !!! Wash and go !!!!

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Jan 21 at 2019 6:41 PM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 18:41:06 -0500

A shaved head makes for faster grooming in the morning. I am not going to way in on the females, except that it didn't bother me 31 years ago, and it doesn't bother me today. Why should it bother anyone else. If it is not an issue of you getting shot, sick or injured, then leave it alone!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2019 8:27 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 08:27:54 -0500

There isn't equality or equity. The army's working hard to bring equality with the gender neutral pt standards and such. But since day-0 females are taught that they are different than males. Quotas for leadership and lower standards/expectations to name two. In voluntary courses such as Ranger School, women are required to shave their heads. I'm not going to get into the debate about how women fare/are treated in such courses, but at the very least they are held to the same 670-1 standard there. I personally feel as others have pointed out that the shaving of the head on day-0 provides a very necessary psychological shock to the individual. All individuality is removed from the person. Uniformity is the standard. devotion to the unit, not to the self is the expectation. These mentalities can be seen from men who graduate from courses such as 11 series OSUT. It's something I didn't notice in my female counterparts (and some males) during my time as a 25 series when i originally enlisted, and served as for the first 5 years of my service. I believe the head shaving is one small part of that difference.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Jan 24 at 2019 5:55 PM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:55:57 -0500

Looks like a high number of men have voted. Get a clue women thats how they feel about you being there. Im not saying leave but i am saying be prepared

Response by Sgt Jennie Flores made Feb 6 at 2019 9:06 PM

Sgt Jennie Flores — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 21:06:11 -0500

Professional appearance in a service uniform should definitely be a requirement, hair included. Especially when representing their country in assignments around the world. It is unfortunate that a particular race had their heads shaved before being exterminated. Traditions may have been great in the past when established, but tend not to be as great with the continuous changes of our future. There are traditions that should be modified according to the present time. No gender should be forced to have their head shaved. A clean professional haircut should certainly be required.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2019 7:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 19:03:21 -0500

Because (imagine drill sergeant voice as he addresses new recruits): "No one cares where you came from!"

Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.

With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Feb 8 at 2019 10:15 AM

SFC Harry H. — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 10:15:58 -0500

I say yes they do need to be shaved within reason, but maybe not as drastic as males. The separation needs to be established to maintain dignity and respect. Per AR 670-1, 3-2 explains what is acceptable and short length hair for females is no less the 1/4" to the scalp and no longer then 1". That should be the standard in basic for females.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2019 8:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:45:45 -0500

There are a few things that stabdout on the subject.

1. Males are required to have their hair cut to shortest length by regulation. That is a noguard cut. Shaven heads is technically unauthorized due to health risks.
2. Female ranger candidates are required to cut hair to shortest by reg so why not IETs only fair right?

Response by SFC Robert Frye made Feb 20 at 2019 2:38 PM

SFC Robert Frye — Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:38:33 -0500

As a former Drill and I believe someone who makes decisions on based on reality & common sense, rather then if it’s going to hurt a few people’s feelings.
First, I’d bet money the MAIN reason they first decided to SHAVE Soldier’s heads upon entering the Military for training was Personal Hygiene reasons!
You have hundreds of guys coming from all walks of life about to live and train in close proximity of each other and hair can harbor Lice, Nits, Dandruff, plus infectious skin diseases from Oils and Dead Skin Cell’s if not washed regularly.
This is also another reason why we have Hair standards after entry, not JUST for uniformity. Which honestly the Regulation and Leaders discretion gives so much Lead way you have infantry Pvt’s walking around looking like they got a Boot Brush on top their head almost a Mohawk with hardly ZERO TAPER, then you got guys in PAC with bangs so long they literally must trim them right above their eyebrows so they can say “it’s with in Reg Sarge” but with Ldrs doing the same it doesn’t help MSG’s and WO’s looking like Porn Stars with excessive Side Burns and Pervy Mustaches, then the certain Senior NCO’s with Real or Hair extensions that are up in a BULKY Bun that they got to buy Headgear like 4 sizes bigger to extend out back over their EXCESSIVE Hair and then it still tilts down in the front because the hair is pushing it up in the back, and don’t get me started on those crazy hair Un-Natural hair Colors!
Finally, the other “simple” reason is time restraint, when you have time restraints and need to push hundreds of troops a to b you don’t have time for Perms, so you ALL get shaved.

So conclusion Shaving in basic is NOT HAZING and Hair Regulations in General are not just for uniformity, but for HYGIENE, after all you are in the MILITARY and “supposedly” a fighting force where EVERY Soldier regardless of SEX or MOS basic duty is that of a Rifleman and we all qualify on that piece of equipment on how to kill the enemy and should BE PREPARED to go to War by training on your weapon, your specific Duty, and taking care of YOURSELF Physically, staying in shape and yes Good Hygiene washing and cutting your damn hair, brushing your teeth, trimming your nails, SHOWERING, and even safe Sex practices.

I know I ramble that was long, but also my “Personal Opion” thrown in.
I believe Female Hair Regulation should only allow Collar Length, this still gives them some length as I know most female’s want to look more like a Fashion Model then a SOLDIER which is what they signed a Contract for. But limiting to Collar length would stop the excess hair put up when in Uniform. (Which ive seen Fall down BTW in Training and Combat Zone areas even and produces a visual and snagging hazard) Plus this cuts down on excessive Hair in Combat and Field environments where it’s harder to keep longer lengths clean even if kept up in uniform it would still be full of Oil, Dead Skin Cell’s etc.

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Feb 20 at 2019 8:59 PM

PV2 Ross Bryan — Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:59:27 -0500

AHHHHH THE BASIC HAIR CUT!
HAVING JOINED THE ARMY RESERVES IN DEC 1963 , WITH THE DRAFT ON MY HEELS, EARLY MARCH 1964 I STARTED BASIC TRAINING AT FT LOUSY WOODS MO!
THOSE DAYS THE STANDARD BASIC TRAINING
CUT WAS BARE SIDES AND A LITTLE LEFT ON TOP, MAYBE 1/4" MAXIMUM!
PREVIOUSLY I WORE MY HAIR FAIRLY LONG!
AFTER GETTING THIS HAIRCUT I WANTED TO TAKE IT FARTHER! AT THIS TIME WE HAD A TV SHOW CALLED "KOJAK" , STARRING TELLY SAVALAS. IN THIS ROLE HE WAS COMPLETELY BALD, PLAYING THE ROLE OF A DETECTIVE/COP! WHILE WATCHING THE SHOWS I WONDERED HOW I WOULD LOOK TOTALLY BALD! AND NOW HERE I WAS IN THE RECEPTION AREA WITH A HAIRCUT VERY CLOSE TO THAT LOOK ANYWAY!
SO I GOT RAZOR AND SHAVING CREAM AND TOOK THE REST OFF! A FRIEND HELPED ME WITH A FEW SMALL PATCHES, AND THE JOB WAS DONE! I DID HAVE SOME REAL FUN WITH MY NEW LOOK HOWEVER!
A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER A NEW(ER) RECRUIT SHOWED UP RECEPTION WHO WAS AN OBVIOUS BEATLES FAN AS HE WAS WEARING LONG HAIR AND CLOTHING IN THE BEATLES STYLE, 100%!!
BEING THAT I AM A REDNECK KS FARM BOY THAT CARED NOTHING FOR THE BEATLES I FED HIM MY STORY! I TOLD HIM THAT I TOO, CAME TO LOUSY WOODS WITH A BEATLES SUIT AND HAIRCUT! THEN THEY MADE ME STRIP NAKED IN FRONT OF EVERYONE,
DRY SHAVED MY HEAD, THEN I HAD TO BURN MY BEATLES CLOTHES WHILE EVERY ONE WATCHED! BEATLES BOY LOOKED LIKE HE CRAPPED HIS PANTS AND WAS ABOUT TO CRY!! A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS BACKED MY STORY AS WELL!! I NEVER SAW HIM AGAIN AND WONDERED HOW HIS NEXT FEW DAYS WENT! RIGHT AFTER THAT I WENT TO OUR BASIC COMPANY, AND OUR PLATOON SGT
SAW MY HAIRCUT AND THOUGHT I WAS A RAH-RAH ROMPING STOMPING TROOPER TYPE! IT TOOK ME SEVERAL WEEKS TO PROVE OTHERWISE TO HIM! I WAS ONLY WANTING TO BURN DAYS TILL I GOT OUT!!

Response by SGT James Hunsinger made Feb 21 at 2019 12:21 AM

SGT James Hunsinger — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 00:21:01 -0500

Ain't got time to be messing with hair in basic training. I barely had time to shit shower and shave, let alone messing with grooming hair too. Your being trained to kill people and blow stuff up while keeping your fellow soldiers alive and in the fight. You are being trained to act and carry yourself as a soldier. You're not there to have a fashion show. You'll have plenty of time to style your hair at permanent party or AIT or whatever it's called today. It is a volunteer Army, that's true. If you don't want your head shaved, don't volunteer. Next it will be, "Why do we have to wear the same clothes?" or "Why can't I have seventeen facial piercings in uniform?" Hair is a small issue and it being shaved is only during basic, a short period of time. It also helps for if someone arrives to basic training with a head full of lice or other vermin.

Out.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2019 12:28 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 00:28:29 -0500

Equal is as equal does, duh!

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Feb 21 at 2019 9:23 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 09:23:26 -0500

Shaved heads for the men and short to shaved for the women its not as much about making everyone equal as it is a training factor. More time training less time at the PX, BX, Snack bar. We got our Hair cut twice in BCT once on arrival and once a graduation. You were ready to ship on Graduation day, no fuss and muss. Now we have Soldiers wanting to grow Beards is that not unequal? Women can't grow Beards. The shaving of heads does Help with scalp problems as well, As For the females short or shaved the one thing I would say is if they go in with long hair cut it short or shaved donate it to locks of Love.

If you want equality then I can go to the dark side but I think most folks will realize that you can never have true Equality with men and women mixed in the Military. I think a lot of times we have a tendency to over think things that would be better off left alone. JMHO

Response by TSgt Leslie Anderson made Feb 21 at 2019 11:05 PM

TSgt Leslie Anderson — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 23:05:20 -0500

The head shave is one of the first tangible indicators that the new recruit is no longer an individual, but now part of a team. It is a very effective psychological factor in preparing the recruit for the training and rigors of the military. The women's equivalent is having to adhere to stringent hairstyle regulations. A different but substantial equivalent. Remember seeing a female recruit get royally dressed down for not following the standard set. Made me glad I was a guy at that point with one less thing to worry about.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Feb 22 at 2019 1:28 AM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:28:56 -0500

I suppose if you're going to nit pick and whine this is as good a subject as any.

Response by SPC Juli Reid made Feb 22 at 2019 9:18 AM

SPC Juli Reid — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:18:04 -0500

I was in basic in 1983. Females have hair standards as well. It's harder to maintain especially in basic. So I see 2 things here, first there simply isn't time to do anything more for the males than full on buzz. They are taking them right off the streets and turning them into soldiers. Second, the women were forced to get theirs cut also if they couldn't be quickly conformed to Military standards. Not cut completely off but cut nonetheless. I didn't see any disparity there at the time and I don't now. We have much larger issues in the military than to make issues where none really exist.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2019 11:41 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:41:56 -0500

Honestly, none of military life, starting from boot camp, seemed real to me, it was “fake”. Shaving my head did absolutely nothing for me other than be a nuisance, so from my viewpoint, it’s all just tradition.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Feb 24 at 2019 8:35 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 08:35:41 -0500

Tradition? I suppose so. I would hope a "we're all in this together" attitude's in the mix too. When reading this post, I got a mental picture of D.I.'s waiting in the company street while the trainees run their blow dryers and apply hair gel so they'd look just right for morning PT. Seriously, I believe the other reason men go "whitewall" as we called it back in the day, and women don't has to do with their career path. Men are overwhelmingly in combat arms. Now, before the sisterhood falls on me like an old building, I know there are women who've completed jump school, officer infantry training, and Ranger school. Good for them and any others who try. But let's be honest, most are in support outfits. Unit cohesiveness is an important element everywhere, but especially combat arms, where lives are on the line every time you go outside the wire, (or the FOB as you younger soldiers call it). For what it's worth, I've been out 50 years and I still go high & tight. It's one less thing to deal with in the morning, and I'm too old to be making any fashion statements.

Response by 1SG Marcus Whitfield made Feb 24 at 2019 11:57 PM

1SG Marcus Whitfield — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 23:57:27 -0500

When I went through basic 1975, we had the option of getting a butch cut or short military standards, no shaving of the head was allowed a soldier did that on his own and hazed by the DS for days. As far as equal rights equality etc. etc. females get the same opinion as well and do away with female standards on the PT test as well,

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Feb 25 at 2019 10:18 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 22:18:14 -0500

There are only a couple of months to take hundred of individuals, break them down to a new realization of becoming part of a team. We lost our first OCS ... Masters degree Candidate, drop out at the haircut line.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2019 9:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 21:23:06 -0500

When I went through BCT I hated the female hair standards. Gelling my hair down every single day in a tight bun I wasn't used to hurt so bad. I felt like I was never in the proper standard anyway. Once I got to AIT and found out I would be wearing my kevlar for weeks on end, I cut all my hair off. I had the slickest fade. I loved it. Now of course this is not the first time I had cut my hair, so I didn't have the same unhealthy attachment to my hair most females do. However I do think it not only made my training a little less painful but it did feel like a total reform of me as a person. I feel the shaving of heads would benefit both Male and Female.

Response by A1C Alexa Cosson made Feb 27 at 2019 9:30 AM

A1C Alexa Cosson — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:30:16 -0500

The military doesn't want just amazing men to serve. They also want amazing, strong, dedicated ladies. We shouldn't have to look like a man to be an excellent military member. We are females, and we should look like females. We'll still be amazing!!

Response by PO1 H Gene Lawrence made Feb 28 at 2019 6:44 AM

PO1 H Gene Lawrence — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 06:44:31 -0500

Back in 66 when I went in we were told it was a lice thing. LOL Who woulda thought the Military would lie to us.

Response by Lt Col Michael Kwan made Mar 1 at 2019 4:11 PM

Lt Col Michael Kwan — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 16:11:07 -0500

Shaved heads for women, next step is bras and sanitary napkins for men?

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Mar 2 at 2019 1:15 PM

Sgt Phil Quintana — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 13:15:02 -0500

In this Jarhead"s oponion, shaving the head serves many purposes. 1) a time saver, both during receiving and during training. 2) uniformity, there was a recruit who's dad was a vice-president at Dole foods, my dad was a foreman at a steel company, Stevens and I looked the same. 3) tradition, the "yellow foot prints", the shaved head, getting yelled at before we even got off the bus, referring to yourself in the third person, catching hell for being a "generational" recruit!
Should recruits get their heads shaved? Yes!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2019 12:33 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Mar 2019 12:33:40 -0500

The main benefit of the BCT buzz is that you can get an entire company through the barber in minimal time - everyone gets the same cut, the same way, and it's the absolute simplest/fastest method to do a haircut...

Since very few men would want to do the female equivalent (bun), and the women thus need less frequent haircuts (an extra inch wrapped into the bun is no big deal)... No reason to change it...

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Mar 9 at 2019 6:42 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 18:42:18 -0500

How is shaving a female’s head to match the male standard “equality”? Ok you want equality, grow out your hair and wear it in a bun.

Response by SMSgt Alex Medina made Mar 15 at 2019 9:55 AM

SMSgt Alex Medina — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:55:15 -0400

In the Air Force "shaved" means shaved. Our Airmen do NOT get shaved haircuts while in Basic Training. They do get a haircut that's close to the skin but it's NOT shaved. In the Air Force, while I was still in, you had to have a medical reason to shave your head hair.

Response by CMSgt George Milliorn made Mar 19 at 2019 10:38 AM

CMSgt George Milliorn — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 10:38:34 -0400

Why aren't Officer candidates head ever shaved?

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Mar 27 at 2019 8:36 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:36:48 -0400

SDG V Michelle Woods, I fail to see how your comment has any credibility. What’s good for one should be good for all.

Response by SPC Jimmy Rooks I made Mar 30 at 2019 3:03 PM

SPC Jimmy Rooks I — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:03:12 -0400

Female regulation hair (as I recall!)is it can't be worn longer than the bottom of the collar, but it CAN be pinned up to that level. Males must have their hair tapered "off the ears, off the collar in back & out of the eyes"!

Response by SPC Jimmy Rooks I made Mar 30 at 2019 3:54 PM

SPC Jimmy Rooks I — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:54:23 -0400

When I was in the Army I noticed that EVERY post that conducted Basic Training there were people(mostly men)running around with camouflage make-up & shaved heads..

Response by PFC Terry Elliott made Mar 30 at 2019 8:44 PM

PFC Terry Elliott — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 20:44:56 -0400

I am a female and during BCT I had to stand at the back of the males line at the barbershop to keep my hair within Regulation. There was one other female who kept her hair as short as I did. We kept each other up through all the dumb snickers and jokes—like the guys couldn’t fathom having to share a chair with a female. We would come out like the heroes in the end though, cause we actually did it! That was how much we cared about the uniform, the job, and the standard. We did it, not because we thought it was funny, but because we had to, AND if nothing else, IT DOES GROW BACK. Big deal for a little while.

Response by PV2 Charles Alan Watson made Mar 30 at 2019 9:23 PM

PV2 Charles Alan Watson — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:23:46 -0400

Technically it's not shaved heads. The Drill Sergeant is trying to confirm us to his will. To take the civilian our of us!

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Mar 31 at 2019 1:47 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 13:47:33 -0400

I think that if the males can have there hair cut, which they absolutely should, the females should have their hair cut just as short. The exact same. Equality. If there is a reason to do it to males, the same reason applies to females. If the reason does not apply to females, it should not apply to males. It is ONLY hair. It will either grow back or it will not. As a man rapidly closing on 50, and suffering from 'male pattern baldness', and all the feminist rhetoric in the world, I have no sympathy for females. None at all.

Response by SFC Anthony Pittore made Mar 31 at 2019 2:48 PM

SFC Anthony Pittore — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:48:25 -0400

Political correctness will get soldiers killed in combat...Obama ordered the military to put females in highly dangerous stressful combat rolls but ordered the military to keep the present two standard for men and women...The physical requirement for females going thru basic training is easier than for males........

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2019 8:21 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 20:21:41 -0400

Both Must shave their heads !

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Apr 1 at 2019 1:01 AM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 01:01:02 -0400

Well hell, while they are at it, just lower the PFT too. I mean, make it a gender neutral PFT. Like, hang from the bar for 70sec for 100pts. So, the weak can hack it. Yeah, I'm the bad guy.
Are you eye F*****g me?! Do you want to ask me out for a date?! Do you...
(You almost had it! One more second and you would have passed! Screw that 20 pull ups for 100 pts. Who the hell can do that anyway? Is that haircut regulation? You folks look like a bunch of dam Hippies with that long hair. I bet you have been bad mouthing your country!)...

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2019 12:17 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 12:17:53 -0400

We had females forced to shave their head in Basic. I think that all policies should incoporate equality, the reason for the hair shortness is due to lice and other things being passed. The haircuts reduce this problem therefore both males and females should follow regimen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2019 10:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 10:45:51 -0400

It is a snowflake generation turd asking this stupid question?!!! MAGA.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2019 1:05 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 13:05:43 -0400

Let’s say we all go to the firing range one day to qualify. The instructor tells everyone wearing glasses or contacts to correct nearsightedness to take them off, and anyone who has had eye surgery to correct vision has to wear lenses to put it back to their old strength. When asked why, the instructor explains its so we’re all equal. You have to use what you’re born with. It’s not fair to people born with normal vision for people to wear glasses or contacts, or to have surgery.

Everyone would say that is nonsense and unfair. Not everyone is born with normal vision, and the corrections only make things equal. They don’t give glasses wearers an advantage. If anything, it’s the opposite, it’s harder to shoot and they fog up sometimes.

This is a lot like men claiming women have some perceived advantage that makes things easier, be it haircuts, fitness standards, or whatever. Sometimes, like the basic (not job) fitness standards, it’s biological, other times it’s societal. It’s all, like the glasses, nonsense. I didn’t find basic training any easier because I didn’t get my head shaved, and it wasn’t an expectation. Women who had such styles were, correctly or not, perceived as lesbians and at the time, there was a lot of prejudice against LGTQ. They couldn’t even serve openly. Men did not have this expectation. They would not be made fun of. A man with a shaved head is and was much more acceptable for society as a whole. A man with a shaved head would never have his sexuality and masculinity questioned for that action. There is a reason some women wouldn’t serve if they had to shave their head, and it has nothing to do with their fitness for the job, or really even if they are okay with gays or not. Women simply value our hair more, generally, and there is a long history behind that.

Now, things have changed, gays can serve openly, and there is less prejudice, which is great. And, more women have shaved or partly shaved heads. I don’t know that we’re to the point, though, where the price paid in terms of blowback for that shaved head would be so small as the males price for a shaved head. Maybe one day we will be, and then it would be time to examine the issue again.

None of this is to say men don’t have societal expectations that aren’t to their benefit or unfair. Of course they do, and that isn’t right. But, guys, there is a reason women are telling you you don’t want our equal burden in this dept. Trust us, that perceived easiness of our lives is not there on the balance.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Apr 6 at 2019 9:36 PM

LTC Russ Smith — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 21:36:18 -0400

For males the head shaving serves 2 purposes. 1. Everyone starts out equal. The most hansomest jock in the history of his high school is just as unattractive as the nerd from the chess club when they come out of that Barber shop.
2. It's about hygiene. When I went through boot camp At MCRD San Diego in May 1980 and we had our head shaved it was a bit shocking to see the condition of the scalps of a number of my fellow recruits. It was alarming and disgusting.

The system of shaving men's heads and not shaving female heads has worked for several decades now. Why on Earth should we screw with it?

Response by SSG Tommy Garmon made Apr 7 at 2019 8:27 AM

SSG Tommy Garmon — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 08:27:46 -0400

Holy Crap Pile ! Are you A Woosy? Do You think. Their at the Hilton? It is a right of passage ! Hair cut standards For females are in place .suck it up butter cup! Drive on private Pile!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 7:38 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 19:38:59 -0400

I don’t think it’s nexessary to shave women’s heads. If a woman can meet grooming standards with a regulation women’s haircut I think that says a lot about her attention to detail. Plus, I just think it looks bad when a woman shaves her head. I’ve served with marines and the females always looked impeccable with their hair pulled back into a tight bun. To me, it shows a level of pride of appearance a male can’t reach.

Response by 1SG Will Arnold made Apr 8 at 2019 5:37 AM

1SG Will Arnold — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 05:37:22 -0400

It's a double standard .. If women want to be treated equal on all fronts, they should do the same things that are required of the males. I am a 28 year army veteran and don't think that shaving of the heads is a requirement, simply cut the hair to military standards and regulations.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Apr 13 at 2019 11:08 PM

SFC Larry Jones — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 23:08:49 -0400

HEADS ARE NOT SHAVED! They are given buzz cuts. I will leave it to wiser heads than mine to debate the issue as to whether females should also be subjected to it. I am against it.

Response by PO2 John Tulare Jr. made Apr 14 at 2019 7:28 PM

PO2 John Tulare Jr. — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 19:28:32 -0400

I think equal grooming standards should be the norm. For one thing, changes in body armor would be unnecessary, thus saving money....

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 2 at 2019 8:44 AM

1SG James Kelly — Thu, 02 May 2019 08:44:42 -0400

Cause girls are special, silly.
sarcasm off

Response by LTC Zachary Hubbard made May 4 at 2019 8:38 PM

LTC Zachary Hubbard — Sat, 04 May 2019 20:38:30 -0400

Both males and females should have their heads shaved.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made May 5 at 2019 12:39 AM

SGT Jeff Everhart — Sun, 05 May 2019 00:39:05 -0400

Females want equal treatment, they should get it in all aspects of military standards!

Response by SSG William Wall made May 5 at 2019 2:46 PM

SSG William Wall — Sun, 05 May 2019 14:46:57 -0400

In closing... NASA says this alignment occurs only once every 500 years.

Response by PO3 Richard Miller made May 5 at 2019 3:28 PM

PO3 Richard Miller — Sun, 05 May 2019 15:28:10 -0400

Shave them all of you want to be an equal

Response by SFC Allan Sullivan made May 5 at 2019 10:45 PM

SFC Allan Sullivan — Sun, 05 May 2019 22:45:27 -0400

Rather than debating different grooming standards between male and female. Why not debate why the various branches have different standards for grooming. From observations over the years it would make more sense that there are common standards especially when members of a force are from different Branches. Army Navy Marines Air Force and Coast Guard.

Response by SGT Jodi WittBailey made May 6 at 2019 1:26 PM

SGT Jodi WittBailey — Mon, 06 May 2019 13:26:29 -0400

The shaving of the head makes it simple to keep hair within regulations as getting haircuts in basic is a massive effort involving marching everyone in the unit to the barber. Those cuts last longer.
Females must also keep their hair in 670-1 regulations during basic training there are different standards because there are two sexes. Females may weR their hair short or long but it must be confined to not interfere with training and mission readiness, and
requiree headgear.

Response by Maj Gary Gault made May 7 at 2019 2:32 PM

Maj Gary Gault — Tue, 07 May 2019 14:32:12 -0400

The Romans first shaved heads & beards for standardizing troops & so in hand to hand combat hair could not be gripped by the enemy. That plus sanitation are good reasons to shave male heads. Females should have standard short cuts for ease of cleanliness and standardization. Hurrah!!!

Response by SSG Michael Smallwood made May 7 at 2019 5:50 PM

SSG Michael Smallwood — Tue, 07 May 2019 17:50:46 -0400

Having served over 20 years in the Army I am tired of all the whining. Let's be real, the Army has become a bunch of cry babies crying about any and everything like a 2yr old. The Marines haven't changed anything since I can remember. Their slogan of The Few, The Proud, The Marines has been around since I could watch TV. So what they get their heads shaved, i did it and the men that served before me did it. Let's put our efforts on something that really matters like sexual harrassment, sexual assault, and toxic leadership to name a few. The Army has become more worried about what you wear when off duty and females wearing braids than the things that affect the soldier directly.

Response by Amn Cassandra Lynn made May 7 at 2019 10:43 PM

Amn Cassandra Lynn — Tue, 07 May 2019 22:43:41 -0400

I believe that if all these women who are crying for equal rights, they Should have their heads shaved also!

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made May 10 at 2019 1:58 AM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Fri, 10 May 2019 01:58:35 -0400

The shaved head, to me, is a large part of the team-building experience and putting all recruits on the same level. As for females, I seem to remember when they were all trimmed into a basic neck length hairstyle that achieved the same ideas for them. The whole idea of being part of a basic training flight, platoon, squad or whatever is to perform as one...a shaved head contributes to that endeavour.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2019 1:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 May 2019 13:48:41 -0400

It’s moments like this that I absolutely hate being in todays army. Take a step back from the question you have presented to this group and ask yourself “Am I a pussy?” Because Christ sake man, did shaving your head for basic training hurt you in any way? Are you scared for life from it? Take some time and learn some Army history. This magical device that you sit around and thumb fuck all day will give you all the answers you need.

Response by SPC Joseph Winter made May 12 at 2019 11:45 AM

SPC Joseph Winter — Sun, 12 May 2019 11:45:29 -0400

The head shaving is technically a de-lousing measure and only still done as a throwback to the era where de-lousing was still regularly done.

Response by MAJ James Woods made May 12 at 2019 5:43 PM

MAJ James Woods — Sun, 12 May 2019 17:43:42 -0400

Ask yourself, did they make women shave their heads when they allowed women to serve in the armed forces? Then why all of a sudden does this become an issue?

Just feels like we’re looking for a reason to be upset about the latest coed MOS and training standards. Lets not forget there was a time when women once they got through basic training were expected to only wear skirt uniforms with heels, no pants. Military standards for appearance has never been equal. To insist every aspect of regulations should be equal regardless of gender is just nitpicking.

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made May 14 at 2019 1:07 AM

Sgt Anthony Leverington — Tue, 14 May 2019 01:07:41 -0400

The only person in my basic training that had to have their head shaved, was this one dude who showed up with a bright orange mohawk. Everyone else got a buzz cut.

Response by TSgt Hugh Turner made May 16 at 2019 5:32 AM

TSgt Hugh Turner — Thu, 16 May 2019 05:32:34 -0400

I thought it was lice control and transition from long hair child to proud US military member. Plus les stuff to get 8n trouble for

Response by CW3 Scott Castlen made May 22 at 2019 7:36 AM

CW3 Scott Castlen — Wed, 22 May 2019 07:36:58 -0400

Head shaving in basic is not hazing..... me and some buddies busting into your room in the middle of the night is. At least that’s what I was reprimanded for at the time!

Response by Capt Henry Mixon made May 31 at 2019 6:14 AM

Capt Henry Mixon — Fri, 31 May 2019 06:14:23 -0400

How about having the women recruits get a short, uniform haircut - about two inches long, all over?

Response by LCpl Jerry Havens made Jun 8 at 2019 9:14 AM

LCpl Jerry Havens — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:14:39 -0400

First of all your head is not shaved, that would require a razor resulting in a bald head. The reason for cutting the hair short is for hygienic reasons, mainly to ensure no lice infest a platoon. It is also the first step in transforming a civilian into a Marine, soldier, airman, or sailor.

Response by SSG Sidney Dale Barnes made Jun 10 at 2019 11:15 PM

SSG Sidney Dale Barnes — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:15:53 -0400

Both male and female should get a buzzed hair cut when entering boot camp and after that keep a regulation hair cut through AIT.

Response by CPT Robert Downey made Jun 16 at 2019 11:58 PM

CPT Robert Downey — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:58:08 -0400

Shave them ALL!

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Jun 17 at 2019 6:23 PM

SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:23:01 -0400

Keep in mind that military regulations set guidelines according to what is the most common cultural in a set professional look. Remember that there was a time when females could not wear any nail polish that did not match their skin tone? Then it changed slightly, and then slightly again over time. As times change, and as the mainstream culture changes, so do military regulations. However, until mainstream culture shows women with shaved heads as often as it does women with any given length of hair, I do not see that changing. That being said, I have observed very few men of the usual recruitment age that have a clue how to groom their hair professionally unless someone has mentored them to do so. Whether a male has his head shaved, or merely cut to standard (plus he'd have to go for a haircut far more often to keep it within standards--meaning a bigger time crunch during basic training, he will still have to say goodbye to his former grooming habits along with his long locks of hair if that was the style he had prior to enlistment. Maybe a more appropriate thing would be whether or not the military is ready to accept a male hairstyle with a manbun so that the two genders would be treated less unequally in that area.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jul 5 at 2019 7:51 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Fri, 05 Jul 2019 19:51:23 -0400

I'm not sure if makes should have their heads shaved but a good buzz cut should suffice, I joined back in 78 makes got a good buzz cut, short near bald, the females had theirs cut above the collar, once a young guy decided to shave his head, he got chewed out and close to being charged for doing it, he paid ultimately, his head swelled to the point he had to been by medical, didn't see him for several days, we were in Georgia, Ft Gordon and the days were hot and humid, the sun was blazing, I guess that the sun did a number on this guy's head, after he got back to barracks he was eventually discharged, never knew the circumstances but I believe it had something to do with his shaving his head, but I don't know if the regulations have changed since then, but that's my take on this

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2019 5:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 17:50:21 -0400

Just curious if the 48% that voted both are males. Also there would be a significant decline in females in the force if women were forced to shave their heads. A lot of the idea behind men having their heads shaved is so they do not require frequent hair cuts during basic training. Women obviously tuck their hair away.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 6 at 2019 5:53 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 17:53:34 -0400

I think shaved for males and very short for females.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Jul 19 at 2019 5:54 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:54:13 -0400

I went through basic training in a different era before the Womans Army Corps were folded into big Army. The close cropping of hair for males is for several reasons.

Hygiene one. Less likely to transmit some nasty things with closely shorn hair.

Uniformity of appearance, we're still individuals regardless, but the uniformity of appearance, works to have a shared experience with your fellow trainee.

Quick identification, seriously, for the few trainees who may decide to disappear to a main exchange, rather than be with the training company. It becomes apparent very quickly some thing is amiss and you will be herded back to where you belong. Except for Church call, trainees had been escorted everywhere.

So while for male soldiers the close cropping may seem dehumanizing, it is more for building the comradery need by shared experiences, so they can help each other make it through basic training.

As for female soldiers needing equal treatment, I'll leave it to a female NCO to respond.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Jul 23 at 2019 11:03 AM

SGT Donald Croswhite — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:03:43 -0400

Again Rally Point, you need to prune these stupid questions. This one is five years old.

Response by SSgt James Carter made Aug 4 at 2019 8:28 PM

SSgt James Carter — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 20:28:07 -0400

Short hair cuts are the simplest way to prevent lice infestations when you throw a group of people with dissimilar backgrounds together in close proximity. It also tends to "level" them all to a common starting point. Why does everything have to become a personal liberty issue? Lace up your boots and STFU.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 5 at 2019 7:40 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 19:40:36 -0400

This is just how it is !

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Sep 9 at 2019 1:06 AM

CPT Daniel Cox — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 01:06:20 -0400

This is a discussion that has been going on for nearly half of a century. In September 1974, I began BCT at Fort Ord. The barber asked how much hair I wanted to keep, one, two, or three inches. I said three inches, and he buzzed my head and handed me three inches of my hair. Three days later I was in the hospital, having shown up to BCT with Strep Throat.
When I got out, they sent me to a new unit. This unit was part of a pilot program that allowed soldiers in BCT to get a military regulation haircut instead of a buzz cut. I was the only one with a full buzz cut. I kept it the entire eight weeks of BCT; it was so much easier to care for, and it did not feel as dirty when we were in the field.
I understand that the haircut is part of the "break them down to build them up" process; my experience it was not necessary. I could see if women were not forced to get short (not necessarily buzz cuts) it could cause resentment with the male soldiers.
I know that when I entered West Point in 1976 as a member of the "Class of '80, Year of the Lady" (the first year women attended the Academy) we men had buzz cuts and the women had a very short haircut to start Beast Barracks. I don't recall any resentment over haircuts from the male Cadets at the time.

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Sep 9 at 2019 6:35 PM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 18:35:27 -0400

This regulation should apply in all of the branches, not just the Army. I personally like to see men look like men, and women like women. As it is said, separate the sheep from the goats.

Response by SSG William Bruno made Sep 11 at 2019 3:59 PM

SSG William Bruno — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 15:59:42 -0400

Hair standards create uniform appearance in the military. Women have standards also, but they are different. Different lengths of hair also makes it easier to distinguish between a male and female soldier. There are things I can ask a male soldier to do that I cannot ask a female. Being able to see the difference at a distance makes a difference. Women are eligible for many more duty positions, a move I support. But to apply the same standards across the board to women and men will not work.

You may have seen a woman with long hair. After hours, she may be wearing hair extensions, which are very difficult to identify vs natural hair. She could also have been a civilian employee.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2019 6:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:38:15 -0400

Fades and other authorized haircuts would rake too long. Remember units can always make uniform regulations tighter, which is what they do in basic.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2019 4:53 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:53:12 -0400

From your article “Women are also required to get first-day haircuts to ensure their hair is trimmed to regulation length, equal to the uniform collar.“
That’s the same in the Army. It’s either up in a gov issued bun or cut/groomed to the standard / not touching the collar.
The question is old and tired. Females are to keep “a feminine appearance.” We do not want to steal femininity from females, this would be prejudicial and seen as another way to discourage women from serving. Feminine is subjective to today’s definition.

Response by PFC Guy Sherr made Sep 24 at 2019 6:27 PM

PFC Guy Sherr — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:27:18 -0400

When I reported for Basic Training, I got a regulation taper cut so my ID picture would look like me. I shaved clean the next visit to the barbershop.

Response by SPC Ron Rowland made Sep 25 at 2019 8:35 AM

SPC Ron Rowland — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 08:35:06 -0400

Originally the shaving of the hair was to remove any possible lice that the recruits might be carrying

Response by SGT Jd Cox made Sep 25 at 2019 3:45 PM

SGT Jd Cox — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:45:07 -0400

I think it is important to note what is actually happening here when we have people with the same haircut, live in the same building, keep the same schedule and eating the same mess hall, we remove individuality. Keep in mind battles are won by teams not the individuals.The first step in basic training, is to remove individuality and to mold the new Soldier into a team player. This is not hazing, just a necessary step towards moving him to a soldier, and not an Individual.

Response by SrA Richard Harvey made Sep 27 at 2019 8:36 PM

SrA Richard Harvey — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 20:36:31 -0400

Must be a Flaming Fagot to want the women to have to shave their heads

Response by Cpl Rose Flores Dugan made Sep 28 at 2019 5:27 AM

Cpl Rose Flores Dugan — Sat, 28 Sep 2019 05:27:21 -0400

Perhaps it’s not the haircut that has you concerned. Perhaps you have a problem with women in the military?

Response by Amn Michele Garza-Mathis made Oct 1 at 2019 11:27 PM

Amn Michele Garza-Mathis — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:27:34 -0400

Are you for real?? Cry baby’s!!! This is ridiculous, if you don’t want your damn head shaved then don’t join the military!!! What the hell does a woman shaving her hair have to do with it! Seriously if you want to be a whiner join the cub scouts!

Response by SGT Randall Patsches made Oct 2 at 2019 4:06 PM

SGT Randall Patsches — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 16:06:37 -0400

I think it's all part of the upcoming entitled generation! Oh boo ho, you have to get your hair cut! Suck it up!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2019 4:57 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Oct 2019 04:57:04 -0400

You know if your haircut was more important than being equal status quo then I would understand, but in the Military there is no equal rights ever.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Oct 10 at 2019 2:48 PM

SFC Regina Boyd — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 14:48:47 -0400

I came on active duty in September of 1978, right when the Army officially phased out the WAC (Women's Army Corps). I went through the first co-ed basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, Co A, 4th Battalion, 1st Infantry (A-4-1) and remember Tank Hill "fondly"...about fifty recruits in our company were from Puerto Rico and did not speak English and the MAJOR concern was would they make it to the end (one did not, because of violence issues [female, not male]) and through BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship). I had already cut my hair before basic because it was going to be a hassle having to deal with doing what you have to do with long hair to be compliant with Army regulation and because THERE WAS NO TIME!! I can look back on all that with a smile on my face, but at the time, there were no smiles!! The military already shows equality in pay - everyone can see who makes what at each pay grade by number of years. In civilian life, good luck. What your co-worker makes in wages is a virtual trade secret. Speaking from "experience," men and women are two physically different creatures. Yes, some women can push the limits of physical strengths as some men - but not all. It's also not the physical part that's important, but also the mental. Mental toughness is the true test. Working with what you have to do what you've go to do to accomplish the mission is the utmost. Basic training was designed to "weed out" those that can't make "the cut." (Pun intended.) In the grand scheme of things in the universe, does it really matter if a woman shaves her head bald? Can she deal with it? Probably. Some won't, but they won't be in the military. Will there ever be "equality" between men and women? Probably. Probably not. It's not a race. It's not a competition. I could care less that you can run 2 miles in under 8 minutes or that you can bench press 300 pounds. That's not the true test. The true test is with your mind.

Response by SFC Dana Gaffin made Oct 15 at 2019 9:50 PM

SFC Dana Gaffin — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:50:24 -0400

I’m not sure its a standard any more, but if it is and its administered unequally, then it undermines the equality that is being seek. IE, the more things change the more they will stay the same, and Inequality still rules!

Response by SSG James Mielke made Oct 26 at 2019 9:58 PM

SSG James Mielke — Sat, 26 Oct 2019 21:58:43 -0400

Yes, it should be part and parcel for everyone entering military service regardless of gender, skin pigment, or religion.
The shaving of the head, and military grooming standards as a whole is done primarily for hygiene reasons; to make sure no one is coming in with, or developing, a head of lice, fleas, scabies, or other type of infestation.
Because every group hostile to the US knows our weakness and ineffectiveness at fighting unconventional warfare, there is no longer any "front line" from which can have an orderly echelon of personal hygiene going from the front line to the rear areas. Therefore, everyone must consider their posting as "front line" and act accordingly.

Response by SSgt Dennis Brown made Oct 29 at 2019 7:18 PM

SSgt Dennis Brown — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 19:18:52 -0400

For starters, the basic trainees do not I repeat do not have their heads shaved their cut real short with clippers hand of 1/2 that does not mean 1/2 inch of hair is left it just means that is the smallest clipper there is which lays roughly a quarter inch length but there is nothing wrong with it being cut that short.... It almost sounds like the person making the comment up there is nothing more than a young liberal Cry-Baby... I've made my comments and thatsit... I'm gone

Response by PV2 Clifford Thrower made Oct 30 at 2019 6:43 PM

PV2 Clifford Thrower — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:43:11 -0400

I am a Male in 1974 when I was inducted into the Army guys were telling them that they wanted theirs cut this way and that way and they would cut it all off when they ask me I told them do what they was supposed to and they gave me a decent cut. My hair was about 5 inches below my shoulders. I guess attitude has a lot to do with it

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2019 10:31 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:31:50 -0400

I honestly don't see why this even matters. You sign up to be a soldier stop worrying about what other people are doing or whether other people have to follow certain standards. If it's not illegal or detrimental to the Army who gives a care.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2019 10:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:32:40 -0400

Not sure why it even matters? How does it affect you? Is it detrimental to your morale? Does it prevent you from following orders, doing your job? Then leave it alone.

Response by SFC Robert Furr made Oct 31 at 2019 10:52 AM

SFC Robert Furr — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:52:44 -0400

I do agree with the shaved heads for the males I think a short hair cut for females is a good idea this is a change in your life from civilian to military

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Nov 3 at 2019 9:41 AM

SSG Dave Johnston — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:41:05 -0500

Lice, and other vermin, and removing the narcissism of standing in front of a mirror grooming. Removing the clutter of hair grooming products from ones locker. Educating recruits as to what's important in becoming a member of the Armed Forces, and hair is not on the list.

Response by MSG Robert Greco made Nov 10 at 2019 7:37 PM

MSG Robert Greco — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:37:31 -0500

If not mistaken, the shaving of heads started out for health prevention reasons (head lice).

Later it became a tradition of transforming from civilian to service member, shaving of the head took away individual identities and put everyone in the same boat. Plus it is very low maintenance and faster and easier to clean, even more so down range.

Why not females in the tradition? Simple, Female's weren't part of the Male Army during that time frame, Females were part of the WAC's (Woman Army Corp)

In retirement, I still keep a high and tight flattop haircut for the same reason I had it while I was in.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2019 9:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:28:22 -0500

Equal does not always mean fair.

Response by LTC Warren Miller made Nov 16 at 2019 10:17 AM

LTC Warren Miller — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 10:17:38 -0500

It was 35 years ago this week when I truly began my transition to the Army by reporting to Ft Knox for Basic Training. The blur of activities on Day 1 included the haircut. As I rolled out of the bunk on Day 2, I saw my reflection in the window. The sight of my changed appearance was shocking and invoked thoughts similar to Dorothy’s “I’m not in Kansas anymore.”

Yeah, the haircut makes a huge difference. Leave it alone.

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Nov 24 at 2019 2:25 PM

SrA Brett Stratton — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:25:50 -0500

I'm fine with only guys getting shaved heads. The whole point of it was to be as uniform to each as possible. We're not unique. We're not military soldiers. We're trainees. We're not special. It's not hazing. It's standard. That was the point. When I was in, women had to have their hair at a certain length or up on a bun or god help them...honestly, I think they had it harder since it meant more prep time (if you did the bun). Also, you're in the military. Equal Opportunity doesn't exist there. When you signed up, you signed some of your rights away and became property, not people. They told you this during recruiting, so you can't pretend you didn't know. The Navy can mull it over all they want, but I don't see it being successful. You're in basic still. The whole point is to be stressed to the point where you're broken down and then rebuilt to be a soldier. Can't handle that? Suck it up, buttercup. You know what you signed for. It's only for a few weeks and then you can get whatever haircut you want (within military standards). If you can't handle that and have to cry equal treatment, then take it up with your therapist.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 3:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 15:40:36 -0500

I've seen this question come up so many times and honestly it's just as annoying this time. Do males really think having 10ft of hair in basic convenient? I know females who asked the drills many times if they could cut their hair with the males in basic and were told no because it'd take too much time if the females had to go through it too (it already took like 3 hours to get through the males each time they went). Instead, we were yelled at if god forbid our buns fells out during intense exercises. Many of us don't anticipate how much time it'd take to maintain our hair so we don't cut it before we get there. It's when the going gets tough that you kinda realize "oh this is a pain to style every morning and keep in reg all day".
On the equality part, at the end of the day it is ridiculous to think men and women will be equal in all ways. At the end of the day, females make more sacrifices to fit in the army because it is a MALE army but if we want equality all around I guess I' d like to see males in tampons and blood soaked pads conducting drills regularly. Additionally, I'd like them to get female wellness checks, take mandatory pregnancy tests every time they need a check up AND also wear those crazy uncomfortable sport bras that make your chest nonexistent 24/7. After all, we're all equal, right?

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Nov 24 at 2019 9:36 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 21:36:42 -0500

Women recruits never shaved their heads. So, why is this being raised as a concern now?

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Nov 25 at 2019 8:36 AM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 08:36:15 -0500

While shaving heads also had a medical reason back in the day before modern health standards; which unfortunately have fallen since the decline of good hygiene was taught in schools thanks to our (s)elected officials in Congress and State. Let's not forget that LICE was a pandemic issue that would plague the boot camps because of bad hygiene issues. Therefore it was common place to shave the heads of the income boots and in some cases "de-louse" them as well if they came from rural communities (looking like the start of "Shawshank Redemption" prisoner entry scenes).

However, during my time in when the men would be completely bald and women would have the "Tonilee" cut/bob that was done to them was traditional; while the one Muslim girl was allowed her head scarf to wear and that she had paperwork to prevent hazing by the Drill Instructors documenting it. This was pre-9/11 and just before Gulf 1 started.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Nov 25 at 2019 10:17 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 10:17:29 -0500

I don’t agree that women should get their heads shaved. This would not be exactly “equal” because it would take so much longer for women to grow their hair back to requirements length. Moreover, they would look silly once they graduate basic training and their hair is about the length of a crew cut.

Response by SPC James Pacetti made Nov 26 at 2019 6:54 AM

SPC James Pacetti — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 06:54:32 -0500

Demi Moore shaved her head in G.I. Jane.

Response by SSgt Chuck Keneagy made Nov 28 at 2019 1:07 PM

SSgt Chuck Keneagy — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:07:16 -0500

First step in Discipline

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 12:04 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 00:04:19 -0500

Males getting their head shaved is mandatory. Our drill sergeants told us that it was more for hygiene purposes. Uniformity plays a role, too. As of now, Army regulation prohibits females from shaving their head.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 1 at 2019 3:10 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 15:10:38 -0500

If you don't like it join the girl scouts.

Response by SSG Danny Anderson made Dec 3 at 2019 6:32 AM

SSG Danny Anderson — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 06:32:13 -0500

Takes away from individuality, less hair maintenance (like you have time to brush and comb your hair, not with them Drill Sergeants on your ass, barely get time to shave your face), heigen purposes ie lice

Response by SPC Bill Ratajczak made Dec 3 at 2019 4:26 PM

SPC Bill Ratajczak — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 16:26:48 -0500

When I went to basic I had a small ponytail and DS Torres got the barber to cut it off. I had to hold my ponytail in my cupped hands till everyone in the platoon got buzzed.
Aside from my own experience if women want equal treatment they should expect equal treatment. Just my 2 cents.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 9:31 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 09:31:52 -0500

I've always understood it as uniformity. In basic, everyone is the same. Doesn't matter what your Mos is. The only thing that matters is you learning to be a soldier. Another point is it would take a lot longer if we got specific haircuts. It's so much faster to just shave the head and be done with it. The government has to pay those barbers as well, we all know how cheap the government can be. Then lastly, it will grow back.
As for females, yes their hair will grow back too but it takes a lot longer. Their standards are quite a bit different from males in 670-1. I am all for equality though. I feel like the most reasonable thing would be to make them all get the same haircut. But I'm fine with them not being a bunch of GI Janes. Just my 2 cents.

Response by Cpl J P made Dec 5 at 2019 10:58 AM

Cpl J P — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 10:58:56 -0500

We had to get a gas mask on and sealed in I believe it was 8 or 10 seconds in the 1980’s. No beards and short hair made it possible. WMs were not required to do it. Never understood why not but just chalked it up to another double standard like the PFT. Also short hair was good for Field hygiene.

Response by PO2 Lewis Brockman made Dec 5 at 2019 1:25 PM

PO2 Lewis Brockman — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 13:25:10 -0500

This is more a question of personal hygene. If your ever got head lice in school then you would appericate the shaved head.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Dec 16 at 2019 12:55 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:55:02 -0500

Lice ... I suspect that it originated simply as a practical way to control lice and other head born pests. Would that apply to women? Yes it would but societal rules and expectation makes that most unlikely.

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made Dec 16 at 2019 1:57 PM

Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:57:17 -0500

Shave them all if we are going to have equal standing.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Dec 16 at 2019 9:17 PM

SFC Don Ward — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:17:23 -0500

Yes, we are picking and choosing what represents equality. If we are equal, why do females still have skirts and pumps in their uniform? The ACFT is supposed to get rid of gender differences? Lots of our traditional little points remain, when will they go away.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Dec 17 at 2019 1:50 AM

SSG Darrell Peters — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:50:04 -0500

The original reason for a very short haircut and it is not shaving as 1/4 of an inch is left after the hair cut, is medical. Head Lice. It was employed as far back as I can recall during WWI and WWII. during the draft. Recruits came from every corner of the country and of course, some brought little critters with them. It was thought that women took better care of their hair and were more sanitary than men and to do a very short haircut on a woman was not even considered. They were inspected for headlice but generally, head lice were more prevalent in the males than the females.
When I went through basic you were given the option of a close haircut or a regulation hair cut. Since we were cloistered away for 8 weeks the close hair cut was more practical. Only one opted for a regulation hair cut.

Response by SSG John Lehmer made Dec 17 at 2019 11:26 AM

SSG John Lehmer — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:26:16 -0500

So much for following the standards set by the Army. We weren't allowed to have shaved head in my basic training. It was considered as a fad and or a racist haircut. The Skin heads and KKK were noted for shaving their heads. 1976

Response by TSgt Gary McPherson made Dec 28 at 2019 2:13 PM

TSgt Gary McPherson — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:13:14 -0500

I only had to go through the Marine Boot.They cut our hair as close as the clippers could get.Later the Corps changed it to around a 1/4 inch.Some people complained about the close cuts.This was way back in 1956.I did not mind the close cut but never understood why.Not sure what Marine boot regs are today

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Jan 7 at 2020 12:33 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:33:21 -0500

1968, I and other recruits got our heads shaved at Great Lakes Boot Camp. I was told that there was another reason for the head shaving. "Lice." Some of the recruits would have head lice, crabs, etc. NTC Great Lakes had a special area barracks for those who had vermin on their person.

Response by SSgt Rebekah Adams made Jan 27 at 2020 6:47 AM

SSgt Rebekah Adams — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 06:47:41 -0500

For males, shaved or short hair is less of a burn hazard than for females. Many boys get super short hair as little boys for the summer. For females who may be having a faster return to civilian jobs-think guard and reserve- a shaved head might make Service to our country unperformable as well as undesirable

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jan 28 at 2020 11:39 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 11:39:04 -0500

If something like this hair cut is bothering you, it should. People love their hair...it's part of what makes you you...how you are perceived by peers, by strangers...and it's the sheer vanity of it that makes the shearing your first step toward a new world. It's part of your first "uniform"... Greek for 'one body'.... Boot Camp is where you learn that what you think you know about yourself is wrong, that you didn't know everything about your capabilities. The hair cut is way of standardizing the training surface...to meld you and your platoon into a common starting point. If this little inconvenience bothers you and you want to wear a uniform....join UPS.

Response by MSG Barbara Hensley Lawson made Jan 30 at 2020 11:37 PM

MSG Barbara Hensley Lawson — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 23:37:18 -0500

OMG ... it's ONE time, it's ONE haircut. It grows [nearly] back by the time you graduate, then you never have to get it shaved, ever. If you don't like the rules and regulations of the military then why are you enlisting? Do us a favor and don't bother. There are many more serious issues that need to be addressed first.

Response by CW4 William Kessinger made Jan 31 at 2020 1:26 PM

CW4 William Kessinger — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:26:05 -0500

A close cropped haircut is not head shaving! So the question is somewhat bogus. It's has been many a decade since I got a close cropped haircut in Basic. Back in the 60's my hair was not an issue and I accepted it, to conform with AF regulations. It grow out very well with the next month. Kept it short for 15 years. I still can't accept long hair even on my son, who is 54 now.
But many people had no idea of how to maintain body health standards and it was necessary for some to protect us all. (lice, BO, and general bathing standards.)

Response by SPC Michael Mullins made Feb 3 at 2020 7:59 PM

SPC Michael Mullins — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 19:59:43 -0500

The original purpose for the shaving was to prevent lice in the spread of disease and the close quarters that is basic training. And that is just as real a reason now as it was 50 years ago.cupping said I think that a woman's commitment to the military should be just as much as a man's. So if she wants to serve she should give up as much as he does including her hair.

Response by SPC Michael Mullins made Feb 3 at 2020 8:01 PM

SPC Michael Mullins — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 20:01:12 -0500

Consider the autocorrect massacre of my statement

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Feb 9 at 2020 9:48 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:48:01 -0500

I don't have a problem with the same standard for all enlistees, regardless of gender. You want to be a llumberjack, then you need to be able to handle your end of the log, whether male or female. If we need to shave heads to begin the integration of enlistees into the force, then it should be he same for all. No one's "feelings" are more important than anyone else's, right?

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Feb 11 at 2020 7:08 AM

SFC Mamerto Perez — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 07:08:02 -0500

I think since this is the years of equal rights, they should their hair above their ears.

Response by PO1 Dana Pierson made Feb 24 at 2020 1:40 AM

PO1 Dana Pierson — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 01:40:09 -0500

I wondered the same thing!!! Wtf do I have to shave my head for bootcamp if women don't?? Totall bs!!!! Why do I have to do more push ups or situps or run faster that a female in the same military I'm in??? I love that they are in and respect a few I served with but don't respect the standards!!

Response by CPO John Bjorge made Mar 7 at 2020 4:34 PM

CPO John Bjorge — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 16:34:49 -0500

I was told the reason was that some Men came to boot and they were not very clean. The shaved head was to get rid of lice and any other problems. It has become a Rite of passage since then.

Response by SGT George Reimuth made Mar 13 at 2020 7:42 PM

SGT George Reimuth — Fri, 13 Mar 2020 19:42:37 -0400

when I entered into the U S. Army in 1979 we had our heads shaved as a response to basic military doctrine , the reason was to stop lice ,or sand mites during field training exercises such as rifle range , overnight stay in our tents and a new way of life . your in the army now . time to put up or shut up.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Mar 14 at 2020 2:03 PM

LTJG Sandra Smith — Sat, 14 Mar 2020 14:03:30 -0400

The regulation for women was hair could touch, but not fall below our collars. Mine was waist length so had to be worn up or cut, but my hair never took a curl, so a "short do" would always look unprofessional. I opted to wear it up, but that creates problems of its own. Many women now opt for "buzz" cuts or close to them. If you can, and it works on you, by all means go for it.

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Mar 25 at 2020 5:35 PM

Cpl Gabriel F. — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:35:00 -0400

All recruits need shaved heads. Then head lice can be hunted with the small hammer.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2020 7:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 19:06:14 -0400

Considering males still outnumber females and considering reception is a lengthy process, it's more efficient to line up the males and spend a minute or two on their hair vs catering to a style they want. In BCT you shouldn't get to choose, that's done for you as part of the breaking down and shaping process. It's about keeping everyone looking and training the same.

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Apr 17 at 2020 5:37 PM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:37:31 -0400

I think we, as an advanced society, can probably evolve with this issue. Let's get some funds and perform a psychological impact survey to find out how a military would behave with different hair cuts. Both Male and female.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2020 10:49 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:49:46 -0400

It is for hygiene purposes. You will see many people with fungus once they shave their heads. And in a couple weeks will go away

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made May 8 at 2020 6:25 PM

SSG Clayton Lam — Fri, 08 May 2020 18:25:30 -0400

Is this really an issue? I’m sorry to sound cold or dismissive but it’s part of the whole package. Get over it.

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made May 13 at 2020 12:08 AM

CW2 Jalistair B — Wed, 13 May 2020 00:08:18 -0400

For starters, I will leave the gender issue alone because I don't want or like a woman to look like a man. So lets just focus on the men. The shaved head should be a requirement in basic training. Plenty of people will not like what I am about to say, but tradition is a major part of the military and should be maintained. That haircut is part of an introduction to the military and shows that the recruits has left his civilian life behind. From that moment forward his life has changed and he is being recreated into a soldier.

From a practical standpoint the young soldier may not realize it at the time, but the shaved head also benefits him as well! For two months you get the privilege of playing in the dirt, doing nothing but exercising, shooting, and all those things boys and young men love, or should love to do. The cost however, is limited sleep and limited time for things like say... hygiene. I don't know about you, but old men like myself still go out into the yard and play around in the dirt making things, planting gardens, tending to the livestock (unless you're a city boy in which case you probably just sit in a metrosexual salon getting a manicure) and all the things an average day brings with it. At the end of the day I personally hate the feeling of grime stuck between the follicles of what is left of my hair.

Speaking of that, having a shaved head in basic training is simply good practice as well! Eventually you will become like me and realize that while you have never retreated in battle... your hair has. Sure, you can pretend you still have hair for a time. But after a while you have to accept the reality that a massive amount of hair on the side of your head does not constitute hair on the top of your head, even if you do let it grow over your ears. So you find yourself once again with an army regulation hair cut... and then you find that just isn't worth the effort nor the cost of paying a barber the full price for only 1/4 of the work, so you drop 20 bucks on a pair of clippers and simply cut your hair yourself... basic training style.

So there you have it. The shaved head boot camp haircut for the military man really does represent the full circle of life.

Response by PO2 Christopher Eades made May 13 at 2020 7:52 PM

PO2 Christopher Eades — Wed, 13 May 2020 19:52:06 -0400

I think the hair cuts in boot camp should follow regulations. I got out of the Navy in 1986 so no doubt things have changed. Male hair was high and tight, females were off the collar. They shaved the heads to bring recruits closer to the SAME. Their job was to tear you completely down to your very lowest point and then build you back up and train you to military standards. I could get on board with a females hair being cut from long hair to a length that is off the collar. Shaved heads also make the 7 min shower (I think it was 7 mins) possible. We would wash our hair with the same soap that we washed the rest of us. IDK, there is someone sitting in an office somewhere that makes a lot more money then I do, setting these rules but that's my opinion.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Morrow made May 14 at 2020 8:05 AM

LCpl Kenneth Morrow — Thu, 14 May 2020 08:05:31 -0400

In the Marine Corps I grew up in the hair cut the first day on Paris Island is taking every thing from you and building the recruit up. You earn everything in boot camp even the patch of hair the recruits in the final phase was earned. We couldn’t wait until third phase to grow our hair out even the little we were allowed to grow. I enjoyed earning everything even the most common things. It was part of the whole process to me.

Response by PFC Craig Karshner made May 14 at 2020 1:00 PM

PFC Craig Karshner — Thu, 14 May 2020 13:00:19 -0400

I feel the military is different from civilian life. We must keep that. Our unit all had the same haircut it was part of our uniform. It showed pride unity and it was part of who we were. Military life has changed much but something's must stay

Response by SPC Brian Mason made May 14 at 2020 2:07 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Thu, 14 May 2020 14:07:51 -0400

Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. I was a Medic during my time in the Army.
There are different standards including PT. Men tend to have more upper body strength and endurance. Women tend to have better lower body/legs strength and endurance. They can tolerate pain better than we can.
I shave my head sometimes but it takes far longer. In BCT when there is over 200 people waiting efficiency is key. A woman who cuts her hair shorter(not a boy cut) before BCT is doing a good thing. We have an image to uphold. The Army doesn't see skin color like so many. There is Army Green. Rank is the definer as well as personal merit. Of course, officers are called "Sir" and "Ma'am" and that's common sense.
The cut along with many other things is part of a transition from civilian to solder. I've been out for some years and don't care if my head is shaved or trimmed. A woman's hair tends to be a defining characteristic. In our Class A's you can easily see the difference in a male and female soldier.
In conclusion, should shaving heads be required for everyone? Yes. Those of you who know how BCT is and with so little downtime, females must have their hair up unless they are showering or sleeping. Shaving removes almost all of the hair and allows for a new, healthy growth of head hair and greatly reduces the chance for lice. It's uncommon to see a woman with a shaved head like that unless they are of a particular stereotype.
BCT runs roughly just over 2 months. Hair grows roughly 1/2" a month on average. Trimming a female's hair in BCT would take much longer. I would have the female show up for an inspection a few days before going to MEPS.

Response by COL Roxanne Arndt made May 14 at 2020 5:53 PM

COL Roxanne Arndt — Thu, 14 May 2020 17:53:09 -0400

I agree, females want equal treatment then shave their heads too, but I think in todays world this 'tradition' of shaving heads is not really necessary. There are other ways to tear down the weak, sniveling civilian and build him or her back up again!

Response by SGT James Colbert made May 15 at 2020 1:50 PM

SGT James Colbert — Fri, 15 May 2020 13:50:41 -0400

Hey in 1989-1990...in the army...that was your first sign that your not at home anymore and your first step in the army and your first step into a fraternity that will last you forever, in a bigger world

Response by SFC Jason Rode made May 15 at 2020 7:27 PM

SFC Jason Rode — Fri, 15 May 2020 19:27:00 -0400

I'm trying to understand why this is even a discussion. Shaved heads? Really? Trivial B.S. My retired opinion.

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made May 15 at 2020 10:03 PM

SFC Oddie Brown — Fri, 15 May 2020 22:03:04 -0400

If you're a male and you're complaining about a tradition that has been around for generations then maybe you should stay home so you can take care of your hair. When I was in the 101st and you were in combat arms, God help you if you ever needed a haircut. I have seen 1SGs take a toothpick and put it on a soldiers ear. If hair touched the toothpick you needed a haircut......AND YOU GOT ONE AND DIDN'T SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT IT.

Response by A1C Lisa Casserly made May 15 at 2020 10:49 PM

A1C Lisa Casserly — Fri, 15 May 2020 22:49:34 -0400

I would think that the shaved head issue is for SEVERAL REASONS. One is probably a way of putting all the young recruits on a level playing field... the same with putting them all into the uniform. This uniform idea is also done in private schools. So that there is no obvious rich or poor, all are the same. Second is the idea of a kind of mental game/adjustment - your life has changed. There was the before time and the NOW, delineated by hair vs no hair. Its often a shock to the young men (I remember seeing the 1000 yard stares as their hair went bye-bye... Its a kind of way to shift the mental attitude. A third reason is that its TRADITION. The military is big on tradition! And fourthly... I would imagine that in the past, it was done as a health measure, a way to make sure that no lice or parasites were dragged into the barracks with the new recruits. That stuff can spread like wildfire. I know this first hand... when one of my dogs dragged home a dead woodchuck with fleas... in about 20 minutes, he had fleas, gave fleas to the other dog, and all 17 of the cats, AND the five kids and me. It was an unholy disaster. EVERYONE got a flea bath. The dogs, kids, cats and me. By the time it was done, I was cut to ribbons from claws of struggling animals, and the bathroom had a fine, red mist in the air from all the blood let out of me. My husband laughed and laughed at the descriptions of the "fine red mist", but I assure you it was true, AND not as funny as it sounds. Its an experience I heartily hope to NEVER repeat. I can only shudder to think what it would be like to have all those recruits spreading fleas or lice from one to another in the close quarters of the barracks. As to why its not done with females: First, they DO insist that you must keep all that hair off your collar, and that if not, it must GO. We cut each other's hair in the supply closet. Really, truly. We policed ourselves. Our TI said he LOVED when he drew the "short straw" for the female recruits. He said we listened better immediately, there were far, far fewer of us that thought we'd enlisted as the General on day one, and that lead to much less disciplinary problems. I would imagine that there was no NEED to shave our heads as a shock as we were already conditioned from childhood to be obedient to orders and leadership. Of course, maybe that is changing now, as people are raising daughters differently than they did in the past... It would be interesting to see over the next 20 to 30 years, how training for females changes to keep up with the changing mental attitudes of the growing female children.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 11:29 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2020 23:29:53 -0400

Not mandatory just to make u feel stupid

Response by PO3 Thomas Lawrence made May 15 at 2020 11:39 PM

PO3 Thomas Lawrence — Fri, 15 May 2020 23:39:18 -0400

When I joined the Navy in 1974 there was a new CNO and I was told that we could have the shaved cut or the regulation cut. The regulation cut was a bit longer but our drill instructor said that if we get gigged at inspection then off it goes. I chose the regulation but made sure that it would not get hit on inspection.

Response by SGT Russell Chewning made May 18 at 2020 7:37 AM

SGT Russell Chewning — Mon, 18 May 2020 07:37:39 -0400

Realistically, I see busybody questions like this as a indicator that our soldiers are simply thinking less and less as time goes by. For one thing, there are recruiting concerns. Good luck getting ANY females to enlist if you shaved their heads. Second, the time it takes for a male to grow his hair out from shaved to male regulation maximum length is what? MAYBE six months? For a female, highly likely to be more like 2 years. Third, females, across all cultures are more concerned with their appearance than males are. And forcing them to remove what makes them "female" in their eyes is pretty well akin to an act of psychological rape. You wanna see military females getting into constant fistfights with offpost civilian females once they get out of basic, due to harassment? Perfect recipe for it, right there.

There are many reasons why females don't need their head's shaved. It actively sets them up as "weird" in a lot of the public's view, whereas we have male movie stars that are bald, and sill getting parts on the regular. Women in society have a hard enough time as it is, without us finding a dipstick way to make their lives harder.

And the goofball "equality" argument just doesn't hold water, SSG. We all know that "women's" equality is what is being strived for, as women in many fields still get paid substantially less than men. Women who bring valid rape allegations are made to be pariahs within their communities for getting the local superstar jock in trouble. Applying "equality" to this particular example very much comes across as a passive-aggressive anti-female stance. Something one can get away with, because "hey, equality!". Now, this may come across as a little sexist, but I will still say it: Women are the weaker sex, and are to be protected, physically and in all other ways. Including from a societal perspective. Women are victims in many ways, and trying to find another way to make them victims, i.e. shaving their heads, is about a beta male idea as I've ever heard.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made May 18 at 2020 8:10 AM

PO3 Jake Lucid — Mon, 18 May 2020 08:10:51 -0400

In the beginning - head shaving was more of a moral builder and a start to the we are all alike....same clothes same food same haircut...etc. It also was about hygiene. Put a couple hundred young men in to a single building to live and you will inevitably have the sole who has lice. If one man has it. Soon you all have it. It's a pest control solution. Women when they came into service did not initially go through the same basic training. The taught young ladies how to be women. They weren't on the front lines. Many were clerks assistants typists -female laborers. As times went on there was always a second standard for women. Still is. Men get cut close as always. And women....well ....they have their own set of standards. Call me a sadist. But I feel you go to boot...you ALL should look alike sound alike act alike...regardless of your imaginary or real gender. Shave them all. Bald heads as far as the eye can see. Make boot camp what it is truly about...making every one equal to build them all into a cohesive unit with the same standards across the board.

Response by SSG Melvin Nulph made May 18 at 2020 8:33 AM

SSG Melvin Nulph — Mon, 18 May 2020 08:33:23 -0400

This is something I never thought of it even gave a rats ass about while I was in. When I had a couple females in my squad I had to learn their regs for something other than a board. And yes they had to maintain just like the regs for the males.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made May 18 at 2020 12:49 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 18 May 2020 12:49:14 -0400

Truthfully, I never thought about it much. But then again, I went through HS running Track and X-C and working summers as a lifeguard/WSI. For practical reasons, my hair was crew cut and never more than a half inch or so long.

Response by SP5 Alfred Martinez made May 18 at 2020 8:05 PM

SP5 Alfred Martinez — Mon, 18 May 2020 20:05:26 -0400

i do not believe that females should shave their heads they have not ever done it in the past why should they now a trim maybe but to shave them bald no that would be the same as saying men should get special time to use bathrooms for that time of the month sry but there are things that are meant to be separated

Response by MSgt Joseph Holness made May 19 at 2020 9:22 AM

MSgt Joseph Holness — Tue, 19 May 2020 09:22:59 -0400

Sounds Fair Enough to me. They will all look like Ripley from ALIEN-3 (lol)

Response by SPC Tito Castillo made May 20 at 2020 9:34 PM

SPC Tito Castillo — Wed, 20 May 2020 21:34:15 -0400

Its for hygiene. you don't want a damn lice infestation. Get over it.

Response by SSgt Adam Borton made May 21 at 2020 1:23 AM

SSgt Adam Borton — Thu, 21 May 2020 01:23:11 -0400

I believe that AFI 21-101 should not differentiate between male and female for dress and appearance. There would have to be changes made like either women would not be able to wear bras (currently required) or a man would have to start wearing bras for that to be truly equal. There are many other examples as well but that seems to be the most obvious issue for total equality.

Response by SSgt Adam Borton made May 21 at 2020 1:32 AM

SSgt Adam Borton — Thu, 21 May 2020 01:32:34 -0400

AFI36-2903 would have to be overhauled for gender equality to have a chance.

Response by A1C Jennifer Israel made May 21 at 2020 8:29 AM

A1C Jennifer Israel — Thu, 21 May 2020 08:29:50 -0400

I don't think women should get their heads shaved. I do think men should get their heads shaved. They are gonna have to keep that hair off the collar and need to look respectful even when not in uniform. You represent the elite. The military of the Most Powerful Country in the whole world. That is really something to be proud of. I served in The US Air Force. It was hard and I'm so glad it was hard! It gives you a huge feeling of accomplishment acomplishment when you graduate Basic Training !!!

Response by David Buccini made May 21 at 2020 12:20 PM

David Buccini — Thu, 21 May 2020 12:20:36 -0400

Shaving of the head and basic and

Response by SGT George Stephens made May 21 at 2020 1:35 PM

SGT George Stephens — Thu, 21 May 2020 13:35:11 -0400

I agree that everyone, both male and female, should have their heads shaved as a way to show that everyone is equal and that everyone will be held to the standard. No more, no less.

In a time where females want to be in the infantry but scream double standards; hell no! You follow the same standard across the board or choose another MOS less demanding. I personally don't care who that offends.

Also no one can argue over who has the longest hair or best looking. You're in the military, not a beauty contest.

Response by MSgt Horace Smith made May 21 at 2020 6:57 PM

MSgt Horace Smith — Thu, 21 May 2020 18:57:38 -0400

Uniformity. Recruits enter in street clothes and all look different. Well dressed upper class, middle class and kids from the hood can largely be distinguished by their clothes. In my day it was Hippies, the cool ones with their DA haircuts, college kids with flat tops etc. The first step in making every recruit look the same is a shaved head and the uniform. Who your daddy is makes no difference; you're the same whether from a rich family or poor family and former social status is meaningless. Everyone will now be judged entirely on their performance. OTOH, historically, long hair could create health problems with ringworm, head lice etc. So short hair was a hygiene issue as well. Most people today take care of their personal hygiene better than they did in previous generations.

Response by CWO4 Jerry Place made May 21 at 2020 9:00 PM

CWO4 Jerry Place — Thu, 21 May 2020 21:00:45 -0400

This is simply because of sanitation. Military men had their hair cut very short to reduce the probability of lice. Lice were a huge health problem in WWI, WWII and so on and short hair reduced that problem. Look at Harry Truman's WWI ID picture in David McCullough's biography. He had a high-and-tight and that prevented head lice. Anyone in combat should have a high-and-tight. Besides, I think it's a perfect haircut! Cheap and easy. Semper Fi.

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made May 21 at 2020 9:35 PM

1SG Jeffrey Mullett — Thu, 21 May 2020 21:35:43 -0400

Hey, I'm all for equal treatment.
I know the military has taken differences in physiology into consideration when they made up the Physical Fitness requirements, and apparently the Hair issue as well. I have served with several women who could out perform most men on their worst day. I don't really think a double standard is called for, all Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Air Force personnel should have the same standard.
The Army's new ACFT has made allowances for Combat vs. Non-Combat roles, and this should be the ONLY consideration for standards.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made May 22 at 2020 4:59 AM

SSG Richard Brue — Fri, 22 May 2020 04:59:28 -0400

I say get over it. Getting a buzz cut in basic is just part of the things that males go through. It's not all that bad, and by the way, news flash. it grows bad. If you have not noticed, The Army tries somewhat to keep females looking like females.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made May 22 at 2020 9:50 AM

SPC Greg Campbell — Fri, 22 May 2020 09:50:22 -0400

I had a porn 'stache to beat all porn 'staches. never got called on it. doing your job and being where you were supposed to be. I never got close to anything that had a flame. on a off note, just before I PCSed I shaved it off..... everyone wanted to know who the new guy was.

Response by CPL David Hanchett made May 22 at 2020 3:24 PM

CPL David Hanchett — Fri, 22 May 2020 15:24:44 -0400

I would go a step further, in the name of equality. I don’t say this sarcastically at all. I have served with some amazing female soldiers, and some slugs, just like the guys. One of the biggest things that holds women back in military service is gender norming, how many female PT studs have walked around with that patch in the guys blow it off because “female standards.“ Women are not treated with the same level of respect in the military despite the fact that so many positions normally not available to them now are because they are not held to the same standard. We look at gender norming as something done to be fair to them when in fact all it says is you are different and less capable. If there are to be different standards it should be based on position, MOS, rate what have you. Same goes for the haircut. Do you want to go to infantry OUST, say bye-bye to those luscious locks. Do you want to go be an Air Force cyber spook fine with them keep their hair.

Response by SGT Horacio DeSouza made May 23 at 2020 9:37 PM

SGT Horacio DeSouza — Sat, 23 May 2020 21:37:23 -0400

Shave head is not mandatory. You shave your head if you want to. Know if you looking to start something your are bucking up the wrong tree. Female also have hair standard they have to follow may not be the same as male but they do have regulation that they have to follow.

Response by MAJ Dean Thompson made May 25 at 2020 11:43 AM

MAJ Dean Thompson — Mon, 25 May 2020 11:43:46 -0400

Should be the same for all. Either we are all soldiers, or some are not!

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Jun 7 at 2020 9:36 AM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 09:36:00 -0400

Shaving the head helps the new recruit transition from the "I/Me" mentality to "We/Us". While for many, women recruits being exempt from the "billiard ball" period is unfair, one of the first things that a new male recruit has to understand is the necessity to be a member of the team. Also, shaved head allowed for detection and elimination of head lice: a problem that still exists in many communities from which many recruits come. Last but not least, the United States Armed Forces have absolutely no need for "Prima Donas" who from Day-1 think that they are better than their fellow trainees/boots. All should still have to get used to being a "maggot, etc." until they have earned the right to be called a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman, etc.

Response by PO1 Richard Mecom made Jun 11 at 2020 11:45 AM

PO1 Richard Mecom — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:45:43 -0400

double set of standards

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Jun 24 at 2020 9:25 AM

CPT Carolyn Andrews — Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:25:32 -0400

If a female don't keep her hair off the collar and with in Military standards, we have to get it cut.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2020 9:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2020 09:52:59 -0400

While my gut reaction is everyone should be forced to shave their heads, because it's part of the soldierification (There's my Bush Jr. scrabble word of the day) process - I have to look at this from a recruiting perspective. With the military struggling to make its numbers, and at the same time trying to boot everyone out for not meeting the new PT Standards (though memos released have delayed that catastrophe), making everyone (especially women) shave their heads will reduce otherwise qualified recruits from signing up. I think the right answer is, that everyone gets a card and they get to pick their hair cut from the card.

While we're on the subject... what if a man wants to grow their hair out and put it up in a bun?

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Jul 19 at 2020 2:32 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 02:32:01 -0400

When I started my army career, head shaving was a court martial offense. The haircut regulation was very strictly enforced for everyone in those days and we need to get back into the habit of doing so these days. The maximum and minimum length of the hair should be exactly the same for both genders and head shaving should again be a court martial offense

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2020 7:19 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:19:10 -0400

I like the idea of shave them all, but I always assumed it was for hygiene reasons.

Response by LTC Zachary Hubbard made Sep 6 at 2020 1:54 PM

LTC Zachary Hubbard — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 13:54:31 -0400

Both males and females should have their heads shaved if any at all.

Response by CPO John Clapp made Sep 6 at 2020 2:10 PM

CPO John Clapp — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 14:10:12 -0400

When I enlisted in 1962, we were told that ir was to make sure we were not smuggling in head lice.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Sep 6 at 2020 3:22 PM

SGT Tim Tobin — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 15:22:14 -0400

It should be universal from a hygiene standpoint. Folks are coming from the civilian world and will be in close contact with fellow troops. I can’t tell you how many times I had to treat critters on troops!!

Response by SPC James Dixon made Sep 8 at 2020 4:30 PM

SPC James Dixon — Tue, 08 Sep 2020 16:30:54 -0400

It is for transition from civilian to Soldier. Also hygiene requirements. As for the female thing yes I believe all genders should have to shave their heads minus religious exception. Not religious myself but we have agreed as a country to have a separation between government and religion.

Response by 1SG Steven Fisher made Sep 9 at 2020 1:09 PM

1SG Steven Fisher — Wed, 09 Sep 2020 13:09:24 -0400

Hair grows back young troop and if you want to look at it this way. Females have a heck of a harder time than male troops, they have standards as well. There hair has to be up all the time. All you have to do is roll out of the rack. If your crying about this now what else are you going to cry about? Then go ahead and get out, real troops don’t need someone who cry’s about everything under the sun, you won’t be trusted by your peers. That’s a fact.
US Army 1st Sgt. Retired

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 9 at 2020 4:25 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Wed, 09 Sep 2020 16:25:20 -0400

First, it is not "shaving" off of hair. Your hair is cut down to peach fuzz length. Fine stubble that still indicates you have hair. Its entertaining is to create "equality but to also help identify any medical issues like lice. Females in the military want equality, so let them get the same hair cut in basic training. Then follow the standards as men.

Response by Sgt William Parker made Sep 10 at 2020 10:09 AM

Sgt William Parker — Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:09:08 -0400

Ok so first off, the shaved heads for males are a means of taking away individuality which most ppl express thru clothes and hairstyle both of which are removed and made uniform. The purpose at least for the Corps when I went thru was to break down entirely your sense of self as an individual. For the females, they are required to have hair that, if left down doe not touch the shoulder or must be able to be put up in a bun of some type and not interfere with the wearing of a cover. The reasons why females do not have shaved heads i believe goes back to the simple fact that women don't keep their hair close cropped as men do. Its an empathetic consideration in my opinion to female specific needs and preferences while not impacting ideas of equality. Females also tend to find more time for hygiene like at Marine recruit training, each evening we wwre given 1 hour of "SDI time" to write home, organize our stuff and socialize with other platoon members. Males do not put as much attention into hygiene as females and i believe studies or polls were taken that showed females used this time much more often for additional personal hygeine. This fights against stuff like lice from a sanitary standpoint while males its easier to shave heads to combat this possible issue.
Other respects are considered as well. At the end of recruit training we were allowed to get a high and tight, which makes having a LITTLE bit of that individuality back as a reward while still remaining part of the team.

Response by CPL Wayne Watts made Sep 10 at 2020 1:24 PM

CPL Wayne Watts — Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:24:45 -0400

The shaved heads are done to ensure no headlicecor other critters came with you to Basic Training. It was started before females were allowed in the Army and has just never been looked at since. NIW you can make all recruits wash their hair with silver or some other critter killer to have the same effect. I would say if males were forced to shave heads so should females. You cannot pick and choose what parts of "equal treatment" you want - it must be all or nothing.

Response by CPL Wayne Watts made Sep 10 at 2020 1:27 PM

CPL Wayne Watts — Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:27:59 -0400

Dam I hate it when this phone changes my words and thinks it is smarter than I sm! In the post below "silver" should be "sulphur" , "NIW" should be "Now" and a bunch of other craps this phone put in!#

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2020 12:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2020 00:16:50 -0400

Sigh.

If one of my soldiers ever initiated this conversation I would make the leadership decision that idle time has led to an idle mind and find them something to do.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2020 3:00 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2020 03:00:26 -0400

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2020 12:17 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 00:17:20 -0400

I'll shave my head if I can have pockets to align my ribbons to. Seriously, they say there are no stupid questions but this makes one wonder. By the by, I saw a few females back in the day have to get the shittiest short cut ever because they couldn't keep their bun in regs. I'd rather shave my head than deal with keeping my hair up in a bun that makes you start balding after awhile. Do you want to wear a skirt too bro? It's a new Army after all.

Response by SPC Kenneth James made Sep 13 at 2020 7:28 AM

SPC Kenneth James — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:28:31 -0400

Well when I was in the Drill Sergeants told us one simple thing and we accepted it that was we all as of enlisting were going to be the best soldiers the United states would ever turn out so that ment every Male was to be uniformed and United that is why when summer you see every single soldier with the bdus folded up I'm the sleeves and trousers bloused in your boots and have you just ever really took notice that every soldier that har to have glasses all wear those same black rim glasses and the last thing the D.I said was how in the holy hell would you like to wake up with somebody else lice don't know about you but some of us don't get lice in our hair we get it down below the belt area so no thank you and to this day I am still bald and once more the girls seem to like my bald head

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2020 7:40 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:40:36 -0400

From what I was told the reason why they do it is fo prevent lise spread.

Response by PO2 Tony Divito made Sep 13 at 2020 6:47 PM

PO2 Tony Divito — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 18:47:16 -0400

Maybe it started as delousing process and lost it’s meaning over time. Probably found it quicker to shave everyone’s hair than a customize haircut.

Response by PO2 Michael Roppolo made Sep 13 at 2020 11:35 PM

PO2 Michael Roppolo — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:35:36 -0400

It was originally done to prevent lice in the barracks at the beginning of training.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Sep 14 at 2020 12:21 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Mon, 14 Sep 2020 00:21:38 -0400

I have always felt that if women wanted to be 100% equal to men in the military, then they should BE 100% equal to men. They fought long and hard and are now able to volunteer for any job or role in the military that might have formerly only been available to men. However, they have also fought long and hard to keep their hair longer than men. If people are to be equal, then they must BE equal. This reminds me of that religious post about a man wanting to grow a beard because of his religion. This is just another example of how people want to be treated the same but have extra privileges at the same time. Everyone who joins the military knows before they join that they are required to adhere to a certain set of grooming standards, especially in boot camp where you are left with pretty much no hair at all at the start.

The fact that women are considered equals now in terms of all of their job/role opportunities and at the same time women are allowed to grow hair and men are not is simply women all wanting to have something to feel superior to men about. Just like someone being allowed to grow a beard. They do it so they can feel better than their peers. How about instead of trying to find ways where you can do something to feel better or superior to your peers, you do things so that you are all equal?

I hate to bring Hollyweird into this, but famous actresses have been known to shave their heads for roles. Sigourney Weaver shaves her head for Alien3. Demi Moore shaves her head for G.I. Jane (which has the extra added effect of the fact that she did it so she would be more equal to her peers in a military setting). Even for non-action movies, how many actresses have shaved their head to portray someone with cancer going through chemo? Sure, they get paid a lot more, but the bottom line is that if someone wants to play a role (Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman (Airperson?)), then they should be willing to commit to that role.

As a parting suggestion for a policy change, I think maybe they should treat it like they did when the Navy wanted to outlaw tattoos on Sailors (not sure what the other branches did, but I heard about the policy changes after I got out). The people who had tattoos were allowed to keep them and not get new ones before they got out. Anyone coming into the Navy after the policy change was not allowed to have a tattoo (visible tattoo? Not sure exactly what the policy was changed to, my memory is poor in my old age, and I'm afflicted with The Dumb quite often) or get one after joining. So maybe allow current female service members to continue their current grooming standards until they get out, but anyone joining after a certain date will be required to adhere to the same grooming standards as everyone else. Just a suggestion.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Sep 14 at 2020 1:02 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:02:04 -0400

Equality means same for all. You can not pick and choose which part you want to be equal with.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Sep 15 at 2020 10:38 AM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Tue, 15 Sep 2020 10:38:42 -0400

Shaving a recruits head is part of disease control which is why for the first week every trainee is put into quarters for climate acclamation because of different viruses and colds. All immune systems are different and this allows the body to build anti bodies. Its got nothing to do with slavery or anything else. Its all part of immune isolation.

Response by Lt Col John Culley made Sep 16 at 2020 2:22 PM

Lt Col John Culley — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:22:11 -0400

The reason for the head shaving of male recruits is to keep head lice out of the barracks. Women are exempt because experience has shown that they know much more about hair care than men.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2020 7:23 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Sep 2020 19:23:30 -0400

Are you kidding me?! Female soldier here. Y’all are required to shave your heads, we are required to have our hair one solid color. During basic at least, because after basic we can all do whatever *within regulation* we want with our hair. I pay good money to keep my hair blonde, even though it’s naturally red. When I arrived to basic, my roots were showing. I was told I had to buy box hair dye (SO bad for your hair) and return to my natural hair color. I did as I was told and didn’t complain about it. Sounds like you men should just shut up and shave your heads, just like us women have to shut up and dye our hair. And quit playing this “what about equality” BS card. Men are not women and women are not men. We have different standards when it comes to certain things because WE ARE NOT THE SAME. this is not to bash one gender or the other Or to play favorites, it’s just truth. Shave your head, dye your hair, it’s 10 weeks long, suck it up and deal with it, then move on with your life.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Sep 20 at 2020 1:52 PM

SCPO William Akin — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 13:52:35 -0400

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and vice versa

Response by SFC Jerald Bottcher made Oct 7 at 2020 7:13 PM

SFC Jerald Bottcher — Wed, 07 Oct 2020 19:13:30 -0400

When I joined the Army in the 70's, a number of us asked the drill Sergeants (at the end of Basic and still asked in a respectful manner). The answer they gave was 2 reasons. Most important was the prevention of head lice (and there were a couple that did have head lice, they made us powder our bunks with lice powder) The second reason was tradition, kind of to mark the transition from the civilian world to the military world.
We had no gripes as everyone got their head no shaved, just down to the nubs.

Response by CPT William Jones made Oct 12 at 2020 11:31 PM

CPT William Jones — Mon, 12 Oct 2020 23:31:56 -0400

Having walked both sides of the rank structure, the one thing I vividly recall after walking out of the room after the 4 swipes with the cutter was how you couldn’t really recognize folks...we all looked the same, in a way, everyone was on an equal playing field and it was our performance that mattered for the next 9 weeks.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Oct 20 at 2020 9:16 AM

1LT Voyle Smith — Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:16:36 -0400

I suspect (without researching the subject) that shaving the heads of new recruits was originally intended to reveal the presence of lice. That was a big problem, even in “polite society” in earlier times, thus the practice of wearing white wigs to mask the presence of vermin in a person’s hair. Today it also serves to reduce all recruits to a common denominator, so that no one can be seen to be superior in any way to anyone else.

Response by PO3 Robert Contreras made Oct 21 at 2020 8:52 AM

PO3 Robert Contreras — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:52:13 -0400

Donate the females long hair to the organization that makes wigs for cancer victims that lose their hair during treatments.

Response by SCPO Jeff Conz made Oct 23 at 2020 1:03 PM

SCPO Jeff Conz — Fri, 23 Oct 2020 13:03:38 -0400

Perhaps I’m old school, but I think it’s a tradition and it should stay one.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2020 3:09 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Oct 2020 15:09:28 -0400

Haha. I just wouldn't have joined if I had to shave my head. I think a lot of females would feel the same. It would be a major recruitment issue.

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Oct 23 at 2020 4:28 PM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Fri, 23 Oct 2020 16:28:35 -0400

The hygiene argument is moot if females are not required to shave their heads. And if it's about character (re)building, females should insist on equal treatment.

Response by Sgt M Varela made Oct 24 at 2020 1:57 AM

Sgt M Varela — Sat, 24 Oct 2020 01:57:54 -0400

The Romans required their soldiers to have short hair (in a time when long hair was the norm for men) to disallow the use of their hair for leverage by the enemy. Equal rights means everyone is treated the same in my book. Men and women should have the same PT standards etc. I am was tickled by SSG Woods' comment though. I also agree that it would be a logistical nightmare to give a every recruit a regulation cut. I just wish the politicians would stop trying to dismantle my Corps all the time.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Oct 24 at 2020 4:23 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:23:44 -0400

Although this has been a "rite of passage" at least for males, it has been presented that the rationale behind the shaving was the threat of lice. Men have always been a much larger cohort than women and back in the day women certainly didn't expect to be shaved as that would be an attack on their "femininity". Despite the shaving, there was still an outbreak of "crabs" during my basic class.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2020 9:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2020 21:25:54 -0400

For one thing, unless it has changed, females, had their haircuts in Basic. Not as short as males but definitely not anything like the 20ft exaggerated length amount stated. Also, would not be Reg. Length. Surprisingly, as an experienced medical professional, you should realize Reg. length and for Basic, buzzed hair is best in case of a medical emergency. No hair to get in the way if there's a cut that's just bleeding or worse. The lack of hair expedites the source, type, and treatment.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Oct 25 at 2020 8:37 PM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:37:31 -0400

I have been told it started as a measure to prevent lice in the past. The need has lessened but the practice has not. Since lice don't differentiate between male and female then maybe it's time to treat females the same for hair standards in basic training.

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Oct 25 at 2020 8:42 PM

SSG Brian Carpenter — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 20:42:01 -0400

Equality across the board. You want equal treatment take equal training. I personally had long "pretty" hair and you bet that the Drills and the Barbers at Ft. Bliss loved every second of watching my reaction to it going to the floor. But HOOAH didn't it make me exactly what I was. A newvpiece of clay to be formed from what had been a paisley civilian lump of coal from the Hillsbof West Virginia, into a lean mean fighting machine lol. But seriously a soldier from that day forward. HOOAH HOOAH HOOAH GO ARMY BEAT NAVY

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2020 11:46 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 23:46:59 -0400

This is dumb. First male hair grows fast and you dont have time to go for a cut every week do bu the time you graduate it will have grown. Second females just have to tie hair back which takes 3 secs. Men are jot allowed long hair to tie back. Im going to stop because as I said this is dumb, we all know the logical reasons. I would expect this question from a 16 year old high school boy thats being difficult.

Response by SSG James Peterson made Oct 26 at 2020 5:28 PM

SSG James Peterson — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:28:12 -0400

Having served from the end of Vietnam and into the early 90’s I would say that the haircuts are to establish Esprit de Corp, uniformity and maintain hygiene. Women should not have their haircut. If I remember correctly women are required to keep their hair up and above the shoulder and most women that were in the Army when I was had short hair cut that way to ease wearing their uniform.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2020 7:50 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 19:50:46 -0400

Uniformity, cleanliness/more hygienic, team culture identity, and ease of maintenance. They can become an individual again in the range of standards after they become part of the team.

Response by CW4 David Surles made Oct 28 at 2020 10:36 AM

CW4 David Surles — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 10:36:30 -0400

Regardless of what any of your commanders, congress, or your parents say, women and men are not equal. Women do not have to sign up for selective service when they turn 18. There are many things that men can not do that women can and vise versa, but actually being equal is just a lie we all tell to ourselves to make everyone feel better.

Response by PV2 Donna Rabideau made Nov 5 at 2020 5:25 PM

PV2 Donna Rabideau — Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:25:20 -0500

I was under the impression that it is to help prevent lice and other communicable things that people may have. I mean everyone is coming in from all sorts of places and it makes sense considering lice and other things can't live in a shaved head like that. As far as the females go, I'm not sure why they don't get shaved from the get go, but I do know that besides being professional, the bun also discourages those same things from being transferred easily.

Response by CPL Any Jim made Nov 18 at 2020 3:49 PM

CPL Any Jim — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 15:49:27 -0500

Well it's actually a buzz cut , & technically it's against army regulation to shave head bald with razor ..... & Simply put it more , & most simplest to buzz cut males hair ..... Imagine a platoon of basic recruits or a company of recurits , being picky an just lil cut hear & there .... Buzz cut is quickest & most efficient .... & Best way to get back to training - which is solely reason for basic training ( to learn basic soldiering skills ) i.r. weapons , physical training , & first aide ...... When I was in basic an we got our buzz cuts , every 1 was brand new & officially a new recruit ! An at formation after buzz cut , 1 recruit asked can we shave our head bald .... The drill Sargent in charge of formation , said No , & did not eleborate into full detail , but emphasized no one better shave their head .... Well , the 1 solider that asked , did not shave his head at first ! But there was a brand new 18 yo recruit / ROTC high school vet & decide to go above and beyond & immediately shave his head after formation ..... This was a formation with an e-4 college graduate that on final day before graduation was promoted to e-5 , an award a slot at OCS immediately after basic graduation ! There was also prior service , basic recruit in the company - that had airborned in to pananama an was leg wounded & at this time was the last official airborne operation into forgien land ... Also prior service recruit had to go thru basic bc time had overlapsed in amount of time , no basic is needed for prior service ! But this 18 yo decide to go above and beyond & be the only 1 to shave his head .... Well than recruit that asked in formation followed an was only two recruits to shave head .... When 1 drill Sargent found out was pissed , not sure if the two recruits was pulled aside & smoked , or whole platoon was smoked , or no smoking was done an just quick spoken of in formation than that .... Just had two new recruits , that was told they were best of the best in they high school ROTC class & basic would be a breeze to them because they were junior ROTC studs ! Arrogance is dangerous ? Well the drill Sargent that was bald & shaved his head , kept enabling new recruit with shave head , & yah he got chance to go special forces , he runs like a deer yada yada , .... But still gotta get thru basic to get to next course ? Well the 1st recruit started getting sloppy , basic was to easy for him .... On road marches he started going deeper in the woods on breaks , walking where ever he wanted to , talking in formation when ever he wanted .... His aggronance started being more previlant & entitled day by day .... We had live fire , we were last platoon. To go thru .... It was a cool/cold nite in December ..... As we're lining up on live fire to low crawl , either mount broke or had broken before last platoon was to roll out .... He was said to be rt in middle of line , people start mumbling wow this is really really real , this tracers are flying really low ... Sum start moving to front of line like wow this really really low ! Poof pow wow , cease fire cEASE FIRE ! sum 1 has been shot .... everybody Everybody off the live fire range now ! Bam , the 1 lil arrogant ROTC high school stud - shot rt thru the heart - probably most likely was d.e.a.d , before last basic recruit was rushed off live fire range ... Are basic was pretty much shut down after this , but was passed thru basic & sent onto Christmas exodus once final day of basic .... We were never allowed to complete live fire exercise , but stamped a go at basic .... There was no emphasis on first aide either , just received over empathy an a pass .... We even had to stand in formation , when the family of deceased recruit family was flown in and announce his passing to family ? 18 passed away young , & young for ever & a hero & legend - but left every one behind to deal with this event forever ..... 18 years later can say that new recruit chose easy way out an seen an opportunity to be a hero forever , or simply put his arrgonance costed a live sooner than later ' & the sooner was his own life ... Basic is a introduction to miltary system of crawl , walk run .... But there are people that chose they are better than basic an that they are ready to run wild ..... An even simplest thing of a buzz cut is part of the process ! It's like a tuck march : you wanna know the secret to a tuck march ssg burns .... Shhh are you the only 1 listening ; ok , 1 foot in front of another ..... Ok a shaved head , immediately after going to buzz cut formation - was not his immediately passing ; but did lead to aggorance being engulfed by a young 18 year old as invincible ! As a mental health specialist SSG burnd, short term , term & long term how would you feel this could & can affect fellow basic recruits at that time , bc a 18 yo basic recruit wanted to reinvent the basic wheel or just felt basic applied to other recruits but not him ? .....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2020 5:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 17:11:46 -0500

I know Ranger School is different, if you go to ranger then bald head no matter if your male or female

Response by PFC Shannon Evans made Dec 2 at 2020 10:04 PM

PFC Shannon Evans — Wed, 02 Dec 2020 22:04:43 -0500

I couldn't even imagine being a military barber having 200 plus males telling me how they want their hair cut. We'd be there for days instead of hours.
I had long hair past my butt when I first joined. It was such a pain keeping it up and maintaining military standards while being smoked by the DS. Don't even get me started with getting my brain bucket or gas mask on quickly and fitting properly.
I finally asked the DS for an appointment with a beautician to cut my hair. He asked me why so I undid my hair. I remember him yelling holy shit private that's a shit ton of hair. He had no clue what to do for me. He had to contact another female DS. We did end up finding some one to cut off my hair. I went from hair past my but to hair above my collar. I thought he was going to shit his pants when I came back to the barracks.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Jan 4 at 2021 1:33 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 13:33:54 -0500

As I recall, the original reason for the close buzzcut in Boot was for hygiene, made it easier to get rid of lice and similar problems. Note also the buzzcut was very quick (mine took about 10 seconds as I recall). As to the issue of females, I see no reason why they shouldn't have the same haircut - for the same reasons...

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made Jan 21 at 2021 11:18 PM

SGT Thomas Seward — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 23:18:01 -0500

I knew it was coming, but I thought I was gonna cry when they lopped off over a foot of hair! I’d never seen my scalp before that day...

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Jan 21 at 2021 11:46 PM

Col Tri Trinh — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 23:46:52 -0500

Guys. What’s the issue with shaving your head during boot camp? Easy hygiene and maintenance for the next whatever weeks boot camp lasts. One less thing to worry about and enabling recruits to focus on their reason for being and focus on indoctrination and learning.
It’s an insignificant issue in the overall scheme of things.
Women are to have hair length within regulations, if they want to shave their head, they can. I don’t think most guys care one way or the other and leave it up to the ladies to do what they will with their hair.
Hair length is not a significant matter of equality.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2021 2:41 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jan 2021 02:41:05 -0500

For Basic all heads should be shaved. One thing less to worry about.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 11:04 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 23:04:17 -0500

Everyone remembers how uncomfortable they were when they got to basic. The haircut is the first moment you look around and realize everyone else is just as uncomfortable as you are. You can’t pretend to be unphased by blood slowly dripping off your scalp. Basic would’ve been an entirely different environment if we didn’t start off on equal ground with the haircuts.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2021 7:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Apr 2021 07:50:36 -0400

The standards in AR 670-1 are different. You can add to but not take away.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2021 11:13 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:13:19 -0400

Both should have their heads shaved. It's about stripping off your old life as you transition to the military. If women want to be equal, they should get treated equally and their grapes should be shaved as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2021 1:23 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 01:23:49 -0400

1. because you were lawfully ordered to. 2 Traditional tactics have been to tear you down to build you up. It's hell getting so many all on the same page in so short a time. 3. Professional appearance.
Also, Women are supposed to have their hair UP in a bun when in uniform. As for Post basic, combat duty, if there is a risk of NBC threat, hair can get you killed. Especially facial hair.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made May 12 at 2022 12:46 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Thu, 12 May 2022 12:46:24 -0400

This is not about comfort for the recruit. It is about quickly and effectively processing the recruit into a useful member of their Service. Men have specific grooming requirements. Women also have specific grooming requirements. They are different for each gender.

For men, the grooming requirement is best met with the "shaved head" treatment. It will take quite a while for the hair to grow back to anything near out of regulations. This leaves more time for training. That's an effective way to deal with grooming for recruits. By the time another haircut is needed, basic training should be complete.

For women, the standards are not nearly so strict. Long hair is allowed; the DOD determined that this would be acceptable for women and therefore rigorous grooming standards (as they might apply to men) do not apply to women; they have their own standards. In this case, the "shaved head" treatment for women does not contribute towards maintaining this standard. Therefore, it is not a requirement.

With all that said, requiring a "shaved head" treatment for both men and women might not be a bad idea, and should be examined (seriously) by the DOD. It could improve comradery between male and female recruits. In addition, while it might not be as critical for women, the "shaved head" look would contribute to effective grooming for women as well.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 12 at 2022 5:26 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 12 May 2022 17:26:33 -0400

The answer is obvious, do you want a bunch of female soldiers with shaved heads?

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made May 13 at 2022 12:41 AM

MSgt Janice Trojan — Fri, 13 May 2022 00:41:53 -0400

When they were going to make the Army women cadet shave. I was going to shave my head. I usually don't rock the boat, but you are right why do they make guys not gals shave. You realize it's about egos. If I shaved my head, it would have been destruction of government property and I could have been in trouble. Trust me I do not fall on my sword often.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2022 6:40 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:40:53 -0400

Good question.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Oct 23 at 2022 6:01 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 18:01:23 -0400

The idea of shaving a recruit's head is to break down the cult of the individual and make everyone look and feel the same. Then the training rebuilds the individual with common behaviors and skills that build them into a team. This is not, and never has been, "An Army of One". It's a team.
And yes, I think the shaved head should apply to everyone, men and women.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 23 at 2022 6:39 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 18:39:01 -0400

The best explanation I've heard is that it is the first military ritual of "I am part of something bigger than myself." I think there is merit in that. But it's hair. It grows back (for most of us).

Until males and females must meet exactly the same standards, the equality between the sexes is a myth.