Shaving while Off Duty??

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:33:05 -0400

Who does it? According to the new AR670-1, SM has to be clean shaven while in uniform or in civilian attire while On Duty. Thing is, I've heard many SNCO's say that even off duty you have to be clean shaven. What is your input in this matter? Do you shave while on leave or on the weekends?
I usually don't shave on weekends or on leave, and I live On Post. I've been downrange for the past 10 months so the new AR 670-1 came out while I was out here. Don't know if a CSM is gonna come and chew my butt out for not shaving on a Saturday coming out of the PX lol.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 8:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 20:11:31 -0400

I grow out all my facial hair until hours before I end my leave. My facial hair grows slow. After a month of leave, I'll only have a bit of chin hair to show off.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 8:34 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 20:34:09 -0400

Gotta admit - never did care what the regs stated as far as those regarding facial hair when I was on leave. If I was on leave - I was on leave, period - f&*% facial hair regs. If the Nav wanted to send someone down to check on my facial hair status while I was way out in the boonies - more power to them. I'll admit I was selective about what regs I didn't follow. For instance, I might have gotten drunk, but I never used any illegal substances while on leave. Hell, when I retired and was on terminal leave for nearly 6 months - I still held to that particular reg (well, frankly I've continued that particular reg even in retirement - but that's another subject).

I'm not interested in starting a s@#$ storm over a current regulation - but sometimes regs go waaaaayyy too far.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 9:01 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 21:01:54 -0400

I shave four times a day when on leave to ensure that I am fully compliant with AR 670-1. Don't believe me? Find me.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 31 at 2014 1:02 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:02:46 -0400

The new AR states all active duty service members and those on active status must have a fresh shave everyday including while on leave.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 2:33 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:33:32 -0400

I have not located it in the new AR. If SGT Keen can point out the chapter/paragraph, that would be awesome. However, the Commanding General of an installation has the authority to make that call and have it binding on military, family members and civilians. Fort Bliss is one of those places. Hence the active Courtesy Patrols to ensure both military, family members and civilians (as it is a partially open post) are dressed and groomed appropriately. We were briefed on this when I went through Bliss for CRC processing.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 4:12 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:12:39 -0400

Old AR 670-1 allowed for soldiers to not shave when on leave or off duty, depending upon command guidance/policy. As of 31 MAR 2014, the revised and updated AR 670-1 leaves no wiggle room. All soldiers on active duty will be clean shaven on/off duty and while on leave.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 6:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 18:16:38 -0400

straight out of the reg, nothing about shaving on leave

Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches
are permitted. If worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a
chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line, extend sideways beyond
a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth (see lines C and D of Figure 3–1), or extend above a
parallel line at the lowest portion of the nose (see line B of Figure 3–1). Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are
not authorized. If appropriate medical authority allows beard growth, the maximum length authorized for medical
treatment must be specific. For example, “The length of the beard cannot exceed 1/4 inch” (see Training Bulletin
Medical (TB Med) 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by the appropriate medical
authority, but are not authorized to shape the hair growth (examples include, but are not limited to goatees, “Fu
Manchu,” or handlebar mustaches).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 7:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 07:26:39 -0400

Since I've gotten into straight razor shaving, I've found that it's now a hobby vs a chore. No issues with shaving 7 days/week!

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Aug 1 at 2014 11:34 AM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 11:34:05 -0400

Aren't there rally more pressing issues to determine? The reason given for clean shave is for NBC, doubt that it will be an issue on leave, but if it is, then...shave!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 1:50 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 01:50:32 -0400

Yes

Response by SGT Ronald Hearn made Aug 2 at 2014 2:36 AM

SGT Ronald Hearn — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 02:36:29 -0400

Heck no free off time is off but morning comes early :)

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 11:55 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 11:55:02 -0400

I would wonder how they'd enforce this on Reserve and Guard personnel not on orders or IDT or AT?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 2 at 2014 12:15 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 12:15:06 -0400

I'm Retired. So I don't have too. Now that being said I'm a Private Security Officer so yes I still wear a Uniform and I still shave when I'm going into work and as old habits die hard can't come out of the shower and not shave.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 12:50 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 12:50:53 -0400

Okay, here's a thought: I am an Army Reserve CW2. On the civilian side, I work for Booz Allen Hamilton as a contractor.

What happens if I roll on to a project on Fort Belvoir, and I don't shave during the week?

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 1:39 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 13:39:34 -0400

Checking with my JAG buddy, yes, the installation CG can make the call for service-members to be clean shaven on off-duty time. If you live or stay off-post, odds are no one will notice if you don't. If you come on post, that is another matter. The Marines had this policy for some time. It has been making headway in the Army as that policy was discussed at great length by SMA Chandler a few years ago and then it was decided to allow local CGs to make the call for their commands.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 3:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 15:50:53 -0400

3–1. Personal appearance policies
a. Soldiers will present a professional image at all times and will continue to set the example in military presence, both on and off duty. Pride in appearance includes Soldiers’ physical fitness and adherence to acceptable weight standards in accordance with AR 600–9.
b. A vital ingredient of the Army’s strength and military effectiveness is the pride and self discipline that American Soldiers bring to their Service through a conservative military image. It is the responsibility of commanders to ensure that military personnel under their command present a neat and soldierly appearance. Therefore, in the absence of specific procedures or guidelines, commanders must determine a Soldier’s compliance with standards in this regulation.
c. The Army uniform regulations for standards of personal appearance and grooming are as specific as is practicable in order to establish the parameters with which Soldiers must comply.
d. Portions of this chapter are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements set forth in this chapter may result in adverse administrative action and/or charges under the provision of the UCMJ.

While this paragraph does not specifically state that you should shave on the weekend, it does state that every Soldier will present a professional appearance at all times.

Bottom line is when you leave the house on the weekend while, "off-duty/Still a Soldier," just remember who you represent.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 4:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 16:23:21 -0400

While the regulation does state that it is not required, I would ask yourself if it's worth the argument. Pick your battles. If someone above you tells you to shave off duty, I would ask yourself if you really care enough to make an issue of it. If there is a medical reason to need a break, a doc can help you. If not, then it may just be easier to comply.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 5:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 17:03:15 -0400

I'm in the Guard. I am not going to track down my Soldiers between drills when they are scattered across the state to see if they are clean shaven. To the best of my knowledge this "rule" didn't make the cut and has quietly faded into the background.

Response by SSG Robert Pierce made Aug 2 at 2014 11:14 PM

SSG Robert Pierce — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 23:14:02 -0400

As a NCO it is our job to embrace the challenges that come our way and enforce the standards that are Command driven. AR 670-1 has been provided to the service men and women to follow. So, I think that what we should do what is expected of us. I'm proud of the uniform I wear and I love what I do for the Army. So I'm not going to put myself in a position where I might be asked why are you not clean shaven. That's just my personal opinion.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 6:03 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 06:03:14 -0400

I don't know about other services, but I've seen Marines getting in trouble with PMO (Military Police, or whatever your service calls them) at the gate on a 96 coming back on a Sunday morning without a shave. It might be up to them if they want to enforce it . . . any MP's here to shed light on this?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 10:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 22:27:15 -0400

He's always watching you.

Response by CPL J Sannizzaro made Aug 4 at 2014 2:14 AM

CPL J Sannizzaro — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 02:14:19 -0400

Truth is a soldier is never OFF DUTY. At least that was a fact as I remember it. That said my facial hair growth is fast. One of my top's witnessed me shave after PT and made me shave again before last formation. I started carting a disposable so I could get right when I needed to. Lol. All that aside even then I never shaved on weekends or on leave. ;)

Response by LTC Charles Sherman made Aug 4 at 2014 6:55 PM

LTC Charles Sherman — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 18:55:24 -0400

I'm out now, but my rule was: If I'm not going near the Post/Base (where I might be recognized), then it's nobody's business if I shave. If I expect to be in any professional situation where I would be recognized as military, then I would present a professional appearance. Even now that I am retired, if I go to the local AF Base for appointments, the Exchange, or an other reason, I will be clean shaven when I go. I'm still recognized as a representative of the military, so I behave that way. If I re-enter the professional marketplace, I will conduct myself similarly.

Working in the back yard, at the shooting range, in the desert, around the city, or just hanging around the house...scruff it was and is!

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Aug 4 at 2014 6:56 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 18:56:36 -0400

In the Marine Corps this has been the case since at least 1995 (when I came in) and I am sure much longer than that. Marines are supposed to present themselves with a clean shave regardless of whether they are on duty, off duty, or even in a leave status. Do i shaev every day no I do not however if I decide to go on base during the weekend for whatever reason you can bet your bottom dollar that my face will be shaved.

Response by LTC Charles Sherman made Aug 4 at 2014 7:33 PM

LTC Charles Sherman — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 19:33:36 -0400

I think I'll throw a little bomb out here...maybe two actually:

First, what is the point of promoting NCOs and Officers, or even having them, if judgement in enforcing regulations and policies is not important? I was always under the impression that the reason we selected certain people for promotion was greater wisdom, experience, and judgement. (While I'm certain there are people around the world who remain baffled at my own terminal rank when evaluated against those standards, I'm talking in general terms here.) Thus, the idea that an NCO (or Officer) would blindly enforce a regulation such as this, without consideration of the totality of circumstances, seems...at odds with even having "leaders".

Second, what respect does our larger military and senior leadership offer these same NCOs and Officers, when they write regulations and policies in such detail as to (attempt to) remove discretion and judgement in their application? We often hear talk about how we depend on our junior leaders to set standards for the force, and to enforce regulations and policies fairly. But do the current generations of regulations and policies actually allow that, or do they demand rigorous adherence without judgement and discretion? When did "setting the standard" become the same as "fanatical adherence to rules and policies and unbending enforcement of the same"? If an NCO uses that judgement in a particular situation, how often is he counselled/punished for deviating from some rule or regulation, and how often is he praised for doing so?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 10:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 22:54:31 -0400

Check your post policy letters. Ft Hood, for example, requires you to be clean shaven on/off duty or while on pass or leave even though the AR doesn't specify.

Response by SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau made Aug 6 at 2014 12:42 PM

SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 12:42:44 -0400

Personally I shave every day, not for any military reason but because I only grow neck hair, which is gross.

Response by PO3 David Miller made Aug 8 at 2014 3:31 PM

PO3 David Miller — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 15:31:26 -0400

Technically, as far as the Navy is concerned, per navpers 15665 article 2201.2, we are to maintain a clean shaven appearance at all times. Mustaches are allowed, but have to be kept neat. Now that being said, do they really enforce shaving if you are on leave, not really. But if you do go on base, it is best to maintain a clean shaven look since a chief, or officer, doesn't know you are currently on leave.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2014 8:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Aug 2014 20:54:05 -0400

The new AR also states that Soldiers will not have an beard or goatee and that portion does not specify on or off duty. The question is at what point does scruff become a beard? In Korea you are not allowed in to military facilities unless you are clean shaven. Yes the 8th Army CG will stop you personally and jump your 4th point of contact if he catches you in the commissary!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2014 10:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Aug 2014 22:47:39 -0400

Since I am stationed at Fort Hood, I follow first and foremost AR 670-1 then secondly the Fort Hood III Corps Policy Letters, which are encapsulated in the Fort Hood Phantom Warrior Standards booklet, dated 1 January 2013. In this booklet, it specifically references on page 13 the policy letters of the Fort Hood CG. As SSG Joaquin Goicoechea has mentioned a few times, it states this specifically in the booklet on page 21:

b. Males Soldiers will be clean-shaven when in uniform and in civilian clothes on duty, except for those with valid shaving profiles. Soldiers will keep a copy of their profile on them when in uniform.

Nowhere in the paragraph above does it specifically state do not have to shave off duty nor does it address mandatory shaving while off duty. Looking further up at the preamble paragraph, it states "Soldiers must project a military image that leaves no doubt that they live by a common military standard and are responsible to military order and discipline." Followed by "Soldiers should ALWAYS refer to AR 670-1 and Fort Hood Command policy CSM-01." Caps are mine.

Referring to Policy # CSM-01, dated 29 June 2012, Uniform and Appearance Policy, it states on page 8, paragraph 4h3 that "Male Soldiers shall be clean-shaven when in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty except for those with a valid shaving profile. While in PUBLIC places regardless of duty status, Soldiers will maintain a professional appearance."

Now, it is very clear that if a Soldier is on duty, whether in uniform or civilian clothes, or off duty AND in uniform, that he must be clean shaven regardless of physical location. If the Soldier is off duty and in civilian clothes then the Soldier is not required to shave IF he is in his home or place of residence (NOT a public place). If the Soldier is off duty and in civilian clothes but goes out to a public place (i.e. restaurant) then he must be shaven to the point of portraying a professional appearance. What is defined as professional appearance is vague but I interpret it as being neat and well groomed. In addition, if I should happen to go on base, especially to my work place, I will shave. Just my 3.57 cents worth.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 12:33 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 00:33:13 -0400

I think I have better things to do than to enforce when adults shave when out of uniform. I would hope there are discerning NCOs applying common sense too.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 1:50 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 01:50:16 -0400

We ought to just get SMA in here to clear this up since there are like 54 threads where this argument is playing out...

Response by PV2 Louise De Simone made Aug 10 at 2014 5:48 AM

PV2 Louise De Simone — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 05:48:39 -0400

RE : MCpherson, As a female you would have NO IDEA what it's like to be under the total control of an entire barracks full of "bad apples" why don't you ask the female capt. who had to testify agaiinst the 1 star who forced her into a 3 year relationship and when she continually reported it she was flagged with the scumbag abuser right in the same office.; complaints went NOWHERE. She complained and was flagged right in the same office with that piece of one star fecal matter!! As far as "not Army material" my family has been Army Material for over 200 years We fought in the Revolution to the Indian Wars, which we were both, to WW1, WW2, Korea, My uncle was in Bataan Death March, and I have been out since the Fall of Saigon, I served from that time to the horrible Carter years, of which our force was a national joke. and your excuse of not material is the same CRAP you BUMS use when you cant face up to the truth of your "buddies" whether they are O-Grade OR NCO. Guys like you who make that remark against us are the chickenhawks of these unnecessary wars when we come back from HELL, the damn VA filled with with guys who are replay of Major Burns from Mash.Hey Mac, if you can put down your drink for a moment , got ur attention, when is the last time you held your best FO while you were trying to stop a sucking chest wound from bleeding out? Dying overseas is one thing, but to die here in the "US" on post, is another, and most of us were handpicked for a forced march, simply because we were either orphans, or our parents didnt give a flying frig about us, after all thats what got us in the Army remember? enlist and we will give you a skill and see the world see people and kill them! Only we never thought it would be us! . Anouther thing, I wasen't raised in the city, so I knew my way around the country, You remeber "country boy can survive" Well they were scared of me after that, when that happened I went for blood after that NCO and that 1SLT. cross between Mash character Burns and Klinger they left me alone for maybe a whole week; but that did"t help the poor young woman or what 's left of her family. All i can say is you guys are running on your little blue pill and jack daniels for "courage" and your hatred for us sister soldiers are still well entrenched esp. in other services and yes most of my family was Marines, Navy, and Army. But they respected the women, even though most were Nurses, who by the way saved your friggen life cause by the time the damn doc showed up she had to do most if not all of the stabilizing for you to survive the triage, or have you ever seen that? Thats why I tell all young people Stay OUT OF SERVICE LOOK AT VA !! Bernie Sanders says it best"If you can't care for the Vets Dont start the WAR"!!!! Yes, it was a VERY BAD AREA AND A BAD TIME, WITH THE ABSOLUTE WORST FILTH. And from your response both MAC (finished with your drink?) and RE: FT Brag verify to see: the reason you dint have the "exp" is because of what you have between your legs!!!!! and of course the real reason is the money!!! so dont come up with this OO-RAH BULL!! I"M a HELLUVA LOT OLDER THAN YOU AND I KNOW MORE!!! OH, Capt. FT Bragg, as far as using caps, I would love to Bust Caps !! The real one, but you would"t know what that means. OH, and FT.Bragg, RE: become a drill surrrrrrre, if you guys were dumb enough to enlist me, you guys would be a great target for fraggin training. (how to) or not? Either way I"m guessing I really excited you guys so just take your blue pill and find your hooker down town. Relax, cause you never know when your going to run into us, see you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 12:22 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:22:59 -0400

I have never considered shaving on the weekend and while on leave simply because of my method of shaving (Magic Shave- no razor). Always way too tedious on duty days.... If I had to, I would but there has been the issue of standing out as a Soldier in certain places because of your appearance.... Anyways, thank goodness it is not required

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Aug 10 at 2014 1:00 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:00:17 -0400

I have been in for 8 years but most of us did not shave when off for the weekend or on leave but like you said regs did change. If I had to shave off duty I would just to stay out of an Article 15

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 9:54 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:54:57 -0400

I have a hard time seeing why there is even a discussion on this issue. AR 670-1 is very clear, there is only one time where this is trumped, and that is with a local letter. I would check with your Post/DIV/Unit and see if there is such a letter in place. If not you’re in the good!… However just be prepared to get the business by some super high speed who is not clear on the standard.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2014 11:25 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 23:25:54 -0400

No work = No razor...period!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 3:37 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 03:37:42 -0400

After about 6 days on leave, the Admiral (aka Wife) gets mad and starts complaining about my beard. Usually I don't shave up until the night before I come off, unless I have a formal ever that requires me to be in uniform.

Response by SFC Nestor Nievesmoran made Sep 6 at 2014 8:06 PM

SFC Nestor Nievesmoran — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 20:06:04 -0400

This is one of those nonsense priorities leaders spend their time and effort. A male must shave when they are on civilian clothes, he may not wear an earring because it may be perceived as discredit to the military but on the other hand that same man can be married to the same sex. Priorities...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 12:30 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 00:30:06 -0400

In reality, you're getting paid 24/7/365 when on AD. Ergo, you're technically on duty 24/7/365 on AD. We know from experience, that 24/7/365 doesn't work out so good for humans, so leave is in the mix. Additionally, we allow anyone of any rank to get married and have families - all as a result of experience.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 1:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 01:03:23 -0400

1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year unless otherwise necessary

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 6:31 AM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:31:02 -0400

I'm came up back when you was given a order that's was that and you excuted.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 9:03 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:03:54 -0400

This is a perfect example of a huge problem going on in the Army right now.
- Junior leaders don't know what standards to enforce.
They've got the looming AR somewhere up there. They've got a blue book telling them another. Then more than likely they have another standard put out by the CSM. I read down this page and just chuckled as I saw the same thing happening on a discussion forum. A bunch of people throwing different LEVELS of regulation at each other. No one really knowing which one we're supposed to follow.
Old saying still holds true.
Too many chiefs.

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Sep 22 at 2014 9:51 AM

Sgt Erle Mutz — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:51:26 -0400

I don't normally shave much (as you can see from the profile pic. Having said that, I try to clean up the obivious areas when going somewhere (with or without my wife) just to look 'neat'.

I would ask SSgt Ed - 'why' does he refer to himself getting drunk at any given moment? Sounds more like a "normal" thing for his 'any day' occurrence. There are places and events that (even indirectly) require a sense of respect for 'other people'. Not being in complete control of your presence and presentation can put other people off (even without you knowing it). I didn't care many years ago. Slowly, I began to see that - - low and behold people started being more acceptable and 'friendly'. Just sayin.

Response by SSG Kyle Higgins made Sep 23 at 2014 11:36 AM

SSG Kyle Higgins — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:36:08 -0400

I generally do not shave when off duty, provided I will not be around military folks. If, for example I need to go in to work or go to the PX, even when I'm in civilians, I will shave beforehand.

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2014 5:49 PM

CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 17:49:26 -0400

As Marines, we are required to be clean shaven 24/7. It is understood that we are Marines 24/7 and therefore always on duty. to me it's personal pride in how I look. I know that facial hair has gained in popularity over the past few years, but unless I'm staying in my house all day....I shave.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 11:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 23:27:23 -0500

Second question who here puts on sun glasses, grows a beard and goes on post trying to play like their a cool guy.

I live on an Air Force Base and sometimes grow a beard. When people ask, I tell the truth, that I am really no body; I also tell them I grow a beard to confuse them and make them ask questions.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 11 at 2015 12:14 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 00:14:44 -0500

I don't shave during my personal time. Its not that I don't take pride in myself; I just don't shave everyday. If I take my wife out to dinner, I will shave. If I need to go to the store down the road to by a Slim Jim, I am not going to shave.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jan 29 at 2015 3:50 PM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:50:59 -0500

I always did.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Feb 14 at 2015 7:05 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:05:16 -0500

Here is my take. If I am home for the weekend, don't have to go out of the house, or back on base, then no I do not shave. The way I read the reg is if you are ON DUTY(at work), that is preforming work in your MOS, weather it is overseas or stateside. You shave! if you and the wife go to a movie on post I would say to keep the beard police from seeing you shave. If I at my families house and on leave or just at my families for the weekend then no.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 9:00 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:00:31 -0500

Wow, this is like the new "should a 2LT salute a 1LT" thread.

Response by SGT Rik Thibodeau made Feb 15 at 2015 11:29 AM

SGT Rik Thibodeau — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 11:29:17 -0500

When I was stationed in Italy around 2001 or so the 173rd CSM would sometimes assign a couple SSG's to stand outside the PX on Saturdays and if they saw unshaven personnel, they were supposed to ask for their ID card and if they were active duty they were instructed to not allow them entry into the PX because they hadn't shaved. Completely ridiculous. The funniest thing I remember was an Air Force guy laughing at him and telling him to F off. It was stupid stuff like that that convinced me I had to get out.

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made Apr 26 at 2015 3:17 PM

CH (COL) Geoff Bailey — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 15:17:23 -0400

We are always required to present a professional appearance whether on duty, off duty, or on leave. Local policies also dictate certain standards, and has been discussed, do you want to be known as a minimalist who merely meets the standards?

I witnessed a CPT inform a COL that his sideburns were just inside the limits when the COL told him he needed to trim his sideburns. When pressed further, the CPT told the COL that he was not subject to DIV standards as his unit was merely a tenant unit on our post. The CPT did not understand the reputation he was developing, nor the comment I then received for not having already addressed the haircut standards.

Long story short, don't put yourself in a situation to be questioned about meeting the standards. A "good Soldier" never needs a haircut or shave.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:25:26 -0400

If im off duty or on leave? Fuhgedaboudit! Im on day 7 of 51 days of authorized leave and i will not once touch my facial hair. Since i cannot grow hair on my head like Bradley Cooper(notice the hat in both pics) i dedicate relaxed grooming standard deployments and leave to growing a bad ass beard.lol (for the record both pictures are of me on leave, at home in Miami)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:43 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:43:21 -0400

Also the phrase " portrays a neat and clean appearance" is very open to interpretation. I do not grow a Santa Claus beard while on leave, and certainly do not have time to grow one on a 4 day or much less on a weekend. If afforded the opportunity, i grown a neatly shaped and trimmed Andrea Bocelli/George Clooney-esque beard, which I personally feel is neither detracting, nor drawing attention. I merely giving my face a break, on personal time i have earned. If the Army decides to cone out with an AR that strictly prohibits this, I will have no choice but to oblige. Until then, let me keep this morsel of normalcy without busting my balls.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 12:43 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:43:31 -0400

I can't even make it through the day staying clean shaven, but I shave every morning unless on leave... I don't take leave often so it is usually in 50 to 60 day chunks.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Jul 3 at 2015 9:02 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 21:02:23 -0400

Sometimes your face needs a rest too

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Jul 28 at 2015 1:26 PM

CPT Chris Loomis — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:26:09 -0400

No you don't have to shave in your off time.

In fact, because of what I do professionally in civilian life, I often look like a complete thug. I basically do not shave or cut my hair between battle drills. I look like walking probable cause. Some time back I ran into one of my Sergeants that is a civilian LEO while working. He told me I looked like a dirtbag outlaw biker!

Give your face a break....embrace your inner hippie dirtbag.... Get shaggy.

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Jul 29 at 2015 4:15 PM

SMSgt Tony Barnes — Wed, 29 Jul 2015 16:15:50 -0400

That's crap...or women would not be allowed to let their hair down in civvies.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 11:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:32:09 -0500

The Army is full of over stressed Soldiers, go ahead and tell them they have to wear the uniform off duty too.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 18 at 2015 11:58 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:58:43 -0500

The key words are "ON DUTY". With that said, you don't have to shave on the weekends while no in uniform or on duty. I don't how so many people misinterpret this or just completely try to rewrite that snipet of regulation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:25:55 -0400

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe there was a change in the regulation that stated you had to shave even off duty

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:28:47 -0400

Good question. I don't remember a lot of fuss over it. Some didn't shave in the field.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:39 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:39:55 -0400

I'm yet to see a Soldier, NCO or Officer who is on leave for an extended amount of time not grow a beard or some type of facial hair. Regardless of what the regulation says many Senior NCOs take pride in being a Soldier 24/7 and expect others to feel the same way. Many units frown upon Soldiers who wear a mustache, that's why I don't wear one now. Your never wrong if it's in black and white.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Aug 2 at 2016 7:51 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:51:47 -0400

Well if the Senior NCO's WIFE said you are wrong then it's settled.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:53:57 -0400

I don't shave on leave and I've corrected several ppl. The updated regulation only requires you to shave on civilians clothes when you are considered on duty.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Aug 2 at 2016 8:02 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:02:02 -0400

He/she has nothing else to bitch about so let's find a guy who's on leave with facial hair so I can exert my personal opinion/preference.

Here's the excerpt from AR 670-1 specifically addressing facial hair. Notice it doesn't specify about being off duty or in a leave status, only in a duty status.

(b) Facial hair. Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted. If worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line, extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth (see lines C and D of fig 3–1), or extend above a parallel line at the lowest portion of the nose (see line B of fig 3–1). Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized. If appropriate medical authority allows beard growth, the maximum length authorized for medical treatment must be specific. For example, “The length of the beard cannot exceed 1/4 inch” (see Training Bulletin Medical (TB Med) 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by the appropriate medical authority, but are not authorized to shape the hair growth (examples include, but are not limited to goatees, “Fu Manchu,” or handlebar mustaches).

In my opinion it's a douche move. I don't give a damn about your shaving habits when you are not on duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 8:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:06:37 -0400

Because you were at a community function on post read ar671-1 chapter 3 3-1 (2)(b) Facial hair. Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted.

It might not be in a working capacity but it was still a function on post.

Revised AR 670-1 dated April 10 2015 and the new DA PAM 670-1 were released.

Response by SGT Jimmy Carpenter made Aug 2 at 2016 8:10 PM

SGT Jimmy Carpenter — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:10:57 -0400

I shaved this morning

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Aug 3 at 2016 4:08 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 16:08:54 -0400

Just use common sense. Like don't show up to visit your new unit before signing in, wearing civilian clothes and beard or goatee, and badly needing a haircut. Whether or not its in the reg, doesn't give a good first impression.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2017 8:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:17:31 -0400

personal matter, as long as you are clean and professional at work and wearing the uniform

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Dec 20 at 2017 9:52 AM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:52:22 -0500

"Who does it?" I did while I was on active duty, no matter what day of the week it was. I didn't give anyone any reason to chew me out, but that was me. It also creates a positive habit too in life. Now, that I'm a civilian, I only shave if I have to see someone, either at work, VA appointments, or when I was taken college classes. Other than that, I don't...Walmart and the grocery stores don't count. lol

Response by SGT Russell Wickham made Dec 20 at 2017 9:22 PM

SGT Russell Wickham — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:22:07 -0500

In Germany, American soldiers were targets if they were out alone. While I couldn't hide the haircut easily, letting the facial hair grow over a long weekend or while on leave made me look a little less like a soldier. I wasn't the only one to do so either.

Response by SN James MacKay made Dec 20 at 2017 9:38 PM

SN James MacKay — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:38:13 -0500

My soldier son never shaves when he is on leave. I asked him about it, some time ago, and he said that it's OK, as long as it's not shaped. That shouldn't be a problem, because most guys couldn't grow enough of a beard in two weeks to have enough to shape. Is that still policy?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2018 11:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Feb 2018 23:07:58 -0500

Whenever authorized, I do not shave. SNCO'S should know better than to tell soldiers that they still have to shave while off duty. Fair is fair.